FWB is to men as "just friends" is to women?

[goodfoot]

I tend to agree with the hyperbole. How many happy-ending FWB posts do you see here in the forums? I'm not a prude by any means, but I don't see modern society's acceptance of casual relationships as a particularly good thing.

 

You aren't going to see many happy endings, period. That is the nature of advice forums. If everything is going great, you don't have much to talk about. Besides, FWBs end badly, LTRs end badly, and marriages end badly. You are taking that risk no matter what. I've seen FWBs end well all the time. I have been in one myself, where myself and her are still great friends.

[camus154]

I'm not talking about the risks of things working out in the end, but rather a continued evolution of the self that gravitates away from meaningful, interdependent relationships with others. FWBs in my mind are a way of having your basic sexual needs met without any of the fuss of a commitment. I realize this is probably an old-fashioned attitude, but that's kind of my point.

[EssexMan]

I'm not talking about the risks of things working out in the end, but rather a continued evolution of the self that gravitates away from meaningful, interdependent relationships with others.

 

I can see that. I wouldn't want to have a life consisting solely of FWBs, though I accept that a few people do, or have convinced themselves they do, which comes to more or less the same thing.

[goodfoot]

I just don't see it as an either/or scenario. I think you can get your needs met when you're single and still value having a real relationship. To each their own, I suppose.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

You aren't going to see many happy endings, period. That is the nature of advice forums. If everything is going great, you don't have much to talk about. Besides, FWBs end badly, LTRs end badly, and marriages end badly. You are taking that risk no matter what. I've seen FWBs end well all the time. I have been in one myself, where myself and her are still great friends.

 

Are you in a new relationship now...is your partner happy about you being great friends with someone you used to have sex with on a casual basis? There are a lot of people who used FWBs as a crutch every time they are not in a relationship. So they date someone, it ends, they go back to the FWB...then find someone to date, stay friends with FWB and then when the new person doesn't work out they are back banging the FWB. So being friends with an FWB often leads to heartache for the new official romantic partner who knows that there is always an FBuddy waiting in the wings for their partner.

[pl3asehelp]

Are you in a new relationship now...is your partner happy about you being great friends with someone you used to have sex with on a casual basis? There are a lot of people who used FWBs as a crutch every time they are not in a relationship. So they date someone, it ends, they go back to the FWB...then find someone to date, stay friends with FWB and then when the new person doesn't work out they are back banging the FWB. So being friends with an FWB often leads to heartache for the new official romantic partner who knows that there is always an FBuddy waiting in the wings for their partner.

 

Or worse yet, your new partner dumping your a** because you remain in touch with someone you've slept with - I definitely see it as a sign of not being all in.

[Blue Spiral]

These chicks aren't even singles?

 

Of all the remotely attractive women I've met, less than 10% have been single. The vast majority have at least been casually dating someone; usually several someones. Or, more commonly, dating around while sleeping with an ex and/or a "friend." I know the movies portray these gorgeous women who can't get dates and are truly alone, but in my experience, any non-psycho, 4/10 woman will have at least a few suitors. So, even if she's technically "single," you're already in competition with guys that are either partially involved or trying to get involved.

 

I'm not intending to be rude. I'm wondering. What are your standards for a woman besides her being, I guess, attractive enough to you for you to want sex with her?

 

You're going to think I'm being sarcastic or making fun of the question, but, basically, I don't want her to be a serial killer or a pyromaniac. All I care about is hotness. Unless something physically interrupts us from having sex (i.e. SWAT team crashing in to arrest her for something), her life isn't relevant to me. Besides, I can't "afford" to have any real non-physical standards. I can barely afford to have physical ones.

[Blue Spiral]

Because of the date, everyone is compelled to have the same values?

 

It's not about values, it's about how we think of women. The idea that women are "more emotional" and are so weak that they can only handle certain types of relationships...well, that's insulting to women, IMHO.

 

As for how FWBs tend to end up: like the majority of all relationships, they tend to stop working. Marriages, non-married relationships, and FWBs all stop working, just at different percentage levels. (If you're single, it means that every relationship you've ever had has failed; if you're married, it means that every relationship you had before that has failed. Most people have, what, four or five failed relationships, and maybe one that's still working, if that much? FWBs fail at about the same rate.)

[camus154]

Again, I don't think it's all that relevant to view this along the lines of "failure rates", but rather what you're settling for. The attitude towards failure rates coincides with the shift towards the self that I mentioned earlier. What's the point in investing yourself emotionally, mentally and for some, spiritually, if it's just going to fail? What's the point in being vulnerable when people will just let you down? Far better to have next to no expectations and view the opposite sex as essentially a body with which you can masturbate.

 

I find that exceedingly depressing and the ultimate insult to either man or woman, but that's just me.

[pl3asehelp]

It's not about values, it's about how we think of women. The idea that women are "more emotional" and are so weak that they can only handle certain types of relationships...well, that's insulting to women, IMHO.

 

As for how FWBs tend to end up: like the majority of all relationships, they tend to stop working. Marriages, non-married relationships, and FWBs all stop working, just at different percentage levels. (If you're single, it means that every relationship you've ever had has failed; if you're married, it means that every relationship you had before that has failed. Most people have, what, four or five failed relationships, and maybe one that's still working, if that much? FWBs fail at about the same rate.)

 

Not really what the poster who said that was talking about. He was speaking about this all being Victorian and ended by saying it's 2013 as if what year it is is going to change what a healthy person thinks is the right way to act. Maybe FWB make some people happy, for others that just wouldn't be enough and what year it is I don't think is going to change how either of these people feel.

[EssexMan]

Not really what the poster who said that was talking about. He was speaking about this all being Victorian and ended by saying it's 2013 as if what year it is is going to change what a healthy person thinks is the right way to act. Maybe FWB make some people happy, for others that just wouldn't be enough and what year it is I don't think is going to change how either of these people feel.

 

Just to clarify, it was I who originally made the Victorian comparison and another poster who appended to it the thought that we should have different opinions in 2013. While I do agree with him/her that FWBs are largely harm-free, my point was actually not about the merits or otherwise of FWBs, but much the same as Blue Spiral's: that there seems to be an assumption in some posts that they're all about sexually rapacious men and emotionally vulnerable women. I simply don't think that holds up - either party, or both, can be rapacious or vulnerable or even both at the same time.

[Blue Spiral]

Again, I don't think it's all that relevant to view this along the lines of "failure rates", but rather what you're settling for.

 

What am I settling for?

 

Look, if I lived in some magical world where poly relationships were commonplace, women didn't want kids, and divorce wasn't something men had to worry about, I'd be all for getting "married." But I'm unfortunately trapped in reality.

[camus154]

What am I settling for?

 

Look, if I lived in some magical world where poly relationships were commonplace, women didn't want kids, and divorce wasn't something men had to worry about, I'd be all for getting "married." But I'm unfortunately trapped in reality.

 

Unhappiness, in a word.

 

I understand you don't want a conventional relationship with a conventional woman. But you're getting sex from what you say, although it may not be with the frequency you prefer. So what's the problem? Why aren't you satisfied with your lot in life and why does it seem like you're still jaded towards the sexes?

[Blue Spiral]

Unhappiness, in a word.

 

I understand you don't want a conventional relationship with a conventional woman. But you're getting sex from what you say, although it may not be with the frequency you prefer. So what's the problem? Why aren't you satisfied with your lot in life and why does it seem like you're still jaded towards the sexes?

 

In a sentence: the women aren't hot enough, and it's still too much work.

[goodfoot]

Are you in a new relationship now...is your partner happy about you being great friends with someone you used to have sex with on a casual basis? There are a lot of people who used FWBs as a crutch every time they are not in a relationship. So they date someone, it ends, they go back to the FWB...then find someone to date, stay friends with FWB and then when the new person doesn't work out they are back banging the FWB. So being friends with an FWB often leads to heartache for the new official romantic partner who knows that there is always an FBuddy waiting in the wings for their partner.

 

I actually am in a new relationship However, the FWB ended about 6 months ago when she got a new boyfriend. I was a bit upset about it, but I was genuinely happy that she found what she wanted. My current girlfriend already knows about her. She believes me when I say we are just friends because I haven't given her any reason to doubt it. We've been friends for years so she knows all about my character. I understand not all relationships have that kind of rapport.

[Clio]

Well, here's a sampling...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, "emotional devastation, STDs, and unplanned pregnancies leading to a lifetime commitment" can happen from ANY sexual relationship. And "a band-aid over a gunshot wound" - seriously?

 

I'm just saying, let's tone down the hyperbole a bit, shall we?

 

LOL at the Victorian Vibe comments. Guilty as charged. Plus I have read all six Jane Austen Novels, some of them more than twice

 

However, I still feel that if "emotional devastation, STDs, and unplanned pregnancies leading to a lifetime commitment" can happen from ANY sexual relationship" it'd better be from a sexual relationship/someone that I feel that it is worth it and FWB just isn't worth it for me.

 

Some people seem to be built (raised? evolved?) in a way that they can handle FWB better than others. As long as people are upfront about wanting FWB so that everyone can make an informed decision, all is fine as far as I am concerned.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I actually am in a new relationship However, the FWB ended about 6 months ago when she got a new boyfriend. I was a bit upset about it, but I was genuinely happy that she found what she wanted. My current girlfriend already knows about her. She believes me when I say we are just friends because I haven't given her any reason to doubt it. We've been friends for years so she knows all about my character. I understand not all relationships have that kind of rapport.

 

Yes...but the jury is still out on what happens if your relationship ends and her relationship ends...the FWB might resume..and then break again when you both find new people again. This is where it can get pretty dicey with new partners....the minute there is a recurrent history with an FBuddy where the two people continually gravitate towards each other during times of "drought".

[Crazyaboutdogs]

LOL at the Victorian Vibe comments. Guilty as charged. Plus I have read all six Jane Austen Novels, some of them more than twice

 

However, I still feel that if "emotional devastation, STDs, and unplanned pregnancies leading to a lifetime commitment" can happen from ANY sexual relationship" it'd better be from a sexual relationship/someone that I feel that it is worth it and FWB just isn't worth it for me.

 

Some people seem to be built (raised? evolved?) in a way that they can handle FWB better than others. As long as people are upfront about wanting FWB so that everyone can make an informed decision, all is fine as far as I am concerned.

 

No matter how up front people are...one can't control feelings. Even men and women who were absolutely convinced that they just needed physical release and nothing more ended up getting emotionally involved.

[Clio]

No matter how up front people are...one can't control feelings. Even men and women who were absolutely convinced that they just needed physical release and nothing more ended up getting emotionally involved.

 

Very true, which is another good reason why I consider them a bad idea altogether. But at least in those situations people knew beforehand somewhat more of the risks involved compared to someone who is kept in the dark or worse, being led on. At the end of the day each of us has their own personal code of conduct. I am not interested in a FWB situation so if the other person is, I want to be told. I do realise though that my standards have not been approved for use by the world's population, which is a damn shame

[goodfoot]

Yes...but the jury is still out on what happens if your relationship ends and her relationship ends...the FWB might resume..and then break again when you both find new people again. This is where it can get pretty dicey with new partners....the minute there is a recurrent history with an FBuddy where the two people continually gravitate towards each other during times of "drought".

 

I still wouldn't see it as an more of an issue. Whenever I start dating someone new, I'm wary of guy friends. Like I said in another thread, almost every girlfriend I had has guy friends that want it to be more than that. At the end of the day, it's about trusting your partner.

[lavenderdove]

>>I tend to doom my chances right out of the gate.

 

What 'chances' are you dooming? Your chances to have a sex partner only? Because it is true that people are 'shopping' for different things when they pursue relationships. It is absolutely not wrong of a woman to turn you down because she wants a relationship and not just sex. And you are certainly entitled to want 'only' sex, but if that is your goal in life you are best sticking to hookers/escorts or random one night stands because it is very unlikely that you will find someone who only wants sex for years and years as it is normal for people to bond and want relationships and a 'built in' function for people to bond unless they are sociopaths and wired differently than normal people.

 

In many of your posts you really show that you do not form intimate connections with people and in fact de-value them and are looking at women as creatures/objects who must be coaxed into giving you the 'goods' you want (sex) without you having to participate in any kind of intimacy or normal connections with them at all. I think the fix here is for you is not to debate the 'rightness' of normal connections that people form, but to get some therapy to address why you are so averse to bonding with anyone and why you have such a negative attitude towards women and relationships that seems destined to isolate you from other human beings and stop you from getting what you want/need.

 

It will be far better/easier for you to learn how to make normal connections than it will be to convince the human race they need to stop bonding and start treating sex as if it were as inconsequential as sharing a sandwich with someone.

[itsallgrand]

Seems to me at the end of the day, people pretty much get what they are willing to give.

 

BlueSpiral, I don't think you are being sarcastic with me. I believe you are being serious. But I find it hard not to laugh a little bit when the answer is staring you right in the face.

 

You just don't care to do anything about it. lol. That's up to you. But I can't imagine any healthy gal being complimented that you'd love some sex with them and all they need is to be hot and hopefully not a psycho killer or arsonist. lol. Of course you are going to attract users and losers that way - and women will some gutter self esteem - which is what I think of people who keep a roster of guys/gals on the go under the guise of "friends".

 

It's possible some who you lump in this category aren't doing that at all, and it's partially your own interpretation of them. I've seen that, and had that happen to me too. A woman gives a warm smile one day or is kind to a man, and he thinks she wants to sleep with him. That's where I'd put a stop to being so warm to that person - but not everyone operates that way.

 

I happen to believe real friendships and friendly relating is possible between the sexes...but not when there is mixed agendas going on. That's why I like strong boundaries so much. You don't have to guess, you don't have to fret all the time, you don't have to worry about what you are doing all the time (or what someone else is doing).

 

I guess I don't understand how some people seem to think it somehow a 'compliment' to others or an indication of trust that they can bounce multiple ambiguous relationships simultaneously.

[goodfoot]

I don't think there is anything ambiguous about it as long as you are honest about your intentions and communicate.

[zep]

I think this is a good analogy. It's not always the men who want FWB and girls who want just the friendship, sometimes it's reversed. In any case, these are often situations where one party wants more and the other doesn't.

 

There are occassions where both parties are happy being just FWB, or just friends, obviously.

[Blue Spiral]

What 'chances' are you dooming? Your chances to have a sex partner only? Because it is true that people are 'shopping' for different things when they pursue relationships. It is absolutely not wrong of a woman to turn you down because she wants a relationship and not just sex. And you are certainly entitled to want 'only' sex, but if that is your goal in life you are best sticking to hookers/escorts or random one night stands because it is very unlikely that you will find someone who only wants sex for years and years as it is normal for people to bond and want relationships and a 'built in' function for people to bond unless they are sociopaths and wired differently than normal people.

 

For the record, I'm not a sociopath. Also, hookers/escorts are illegal (and, IMHO, sort of squicky), so that's not an option.

 

In many of your posts you really show that you do not form intimate connections with people and in fact de-value them and are looking at women as creatures/objects who must be coaxed into giving you the 'goods' you want (sex) without you having to participate in any kind of intimacy or normal connections with them at all. I think the fix here is for you is not to debate the 'rightness' of normal connections that people form, but to get some therapy to address why you are so averse to bonding with anyone and why you have such a negative attitude towards women and relationships that seems destined to isolate you from other human beings and stop you from getting what you want/need.

 

No therapy for me, thank you. Also, I don't think I have a negative attitude towards women--I'm just upset about the unfairness that men have to deal with, just as women are upset with the unfairness that they (women) have to deal with.

 

It will be far better/easier for you to learn how to make normal connections than it will be to convince the human race they need to stop bonding and start treating sex as if it were as inconsequential as sharing a sandwich with someone.

 

I'll be 34 in a few months. I stopped waiting for my one last growth spurt long ago, and, likewise, I don't think I'm going to magically develop the ability to be (or interest in being) monogamous at this stage in my life. Also, I don't need to "convince the human race" of anything, just a few women now and then. Frankly, the Sexual Revolution has done (and is doing) most of my work for me, I just need to find better ways to take advantage of it.