Dating Down. Safe Bet or Resentment Inevitable?

[Blue Spiral]

When you see a bum on the street standing next to a nice-looking lad in a suit, does anyone here honestly believe the only difference between them is luck?

 

Not just luck, but who they were born to, what they were (or weren't) willing to do to be successful (and I mean that in terms of ethics, not effort), and genetically-predisposed skills, traits, and intelligence. Obviously, individual strengths factor in, but mere hard work/willpower won't always result in...results. The guy in the suit could be someone that was born on third and thinks he hit a triple (and is now a vulture capitalist), while the "bum" could be a veteran who fell through the cracks of society. I know which of those two that I'd consider better.

[pl3asehelp]

There are insecure people who believe in leagues and those that don't. Insecure people are always going to have trouble in relationships.

[Klokwurk]

There are insecure people who believe in leagues and those that don't. Insecure people are always going to have trouble in relationships.

 

Ad hominem attack, anyone?

 

I just believe people in this society are afraid to admit certain things about themselves, and this includes how we judge people. We do look down and we do look up, there is nothing wrong with recognizing that some people are better than others; it is what encourages each of us to achieve more with ourselves (and of course that is not limited to material success, as it is so often defined in this country).

[Day_Walker]

I dont believe in leagues, if I am attracted a girl then I am attracted to her. I have dated girls with impressive credentials and girls with not so impressive credentials. More so than their credentials, it is about how I interact with them and her with me.

 

I also have a rule, where I refuse to be a person's safe bet. I learned a long time ago that there are too many new people out there to meet to act as though you have limited options.

[Celadon]

When people think of leagues, they typically group people according to their strengths in several areas:

 

Looks

Wealth

Intelligence

Social skills

 

If you're better in those areas, you're in a higher "league."

 

In reality, we meet people who may be less strong/skilled in one of those four areas ... BUT they are strong in other areas: compassion, humor, emotional fortitude, flexibility, life skills, loyalty, honesty, etc. That's when, like the OP said, you end up wondering if you are making the best choice for yourself. It comes down to dating someone who has a different (not inferior) skill set than your expected "ideal."

 

Whether or not you can fully love and accept this person is a question worth mulling over, it would seem.

[theanonymoose]

People are people. I don't try to think of them in leagues. I'll use my ex girlfriend as an example. When I started dating her, I didn't see her as the most attractive girl. And I knew she wasn't the most sociable girl. However, I had fun with her. In terms of happiness and satisfaction, she was certainly in my league (if you really want to label it as a league), and that's what really mattered to me. And while my feelings for her took a while to grow, they certainly did, and I ended up being deeply in love with her.

 

Does the other person make you happy? If so, who really cares about 'leagues' or 'ratings'.

[LillyLooWho]

I agree with those who are saying that people just don't want to see or admit that we all judge others to some degree. Even those of us who consider ourselves "nonjudgemental" do make judgements. It is part of being a human to judge people and situations, etc. all the time to keep ourselves safe and procreating. I think it is silly for people to act outraged about this. It is a fact of life whether fair or not.

 

I have dated all kinds of people, some more attractive than others, some more intelligent than others, and some wealthier than others. These things matter to some degree but none of them in and of themselves is "most important". I don't think we can exactly understand the total of why we are attracted to one person and not another. As for the original post, I would not date someone in this manipulative way in order to gain something from some disadvantage I deemed the other to have. Either I like you or I don't.

[kittykitty]

There are insecure people who believe in leagues and those that don't. Insecure people are always going to have trouble in relationships.

 

Do you think that insecure people believe in "leagues"? My ex always said that to him - when he was dating his ex he felt like he deserved better, like he was dating down.

 

I came along and he would always say that he can't believe that I would be with him, can't believe that *I* was dating him and that dating me was dating WAY up.

 

As a result he was always critisizing me and the way I did things to - what I feel - bring me down on his level, to make himself feel better about himself. It's like it was his plan to make me feel crappy so he could feel good - never apologizing and making me feel crazy (he always said his ex was crazy too).

 

I'm curious if this is what it was about - his insecurity and seeing people in leagues.

 

I would always laugh and say that's ridiculous, there's no such thing as dating up or down.

 

ETA- part of the reason was because girls normally wouldn't look twice at him at a bar, skinny and not the greatest looking. I am very attractive, slim and fit. I wonder if this was his issue deep down since he referenced the differances in us and was always shocked I was with him often. I'm curious if he felt resentment. The thought of leagues never occurred to me before he brought it up like that.

[Ms Darcy]

When you see a bum on the street standing next to a nice-looking lad in a suit, does anyone here honestly believe the only difference between them is luck?

 

League refers to the MANY factors that comprise a humans "worth", not JUST looks, not JUST x, y, or z. When choosing out mates, we factor in all of these things in our unconscious mind and figure if the product if something we'd like to possibly make babies with.

 

Tldr; WE JUDGE, WE MAKE VALUE ASSESSMENTS. There EXISTS an unspoken social-class system of human worth. Yes, I know it sounds disgusting, but it is STILL a functioning mechanism in society, and to deny it is a bit naive.

 

If I see a "bum" versus a guy on the suit, I don't think that luck is an only factor. I don't presume that the suit guy is better than the homeless guy. But my mind is more likely to think the homeless guy has barriers (mental health issues, etc) that would make permanent employment/finding a home more difficult. So yes, I make assessments, but not about worth but about situation/circumstance.

 

The league thing in romance is rubbish. Just because you consider someone beneath you and that they should be lucky to have you is no indicator that they treat you well. I can say from experience that ugly men [don't kill me] were not nicer to me than the good looking ones. Its about who the person is and the values they hold. I personally dislike persons with an inferiority/superiority complex. They waste too much time judging people to enjoy them.

 

I had to laugh at this one. I wonder if this is true. There are people on this thread who say they don't believe in leagues. Does this mean that they are less likely to put a "hot" partner on a pedastal - or treat a partner they think is less than him/her like crap - and to treat their partners with respect and equality?

 

These are "differences" but do not make anyone better or worse, above or below anyone else. I take the OP's question as "would you date someone you feel no connection to, nor have anything in common with, except that they are very attracted to you?" Basically, the question is: do you want a one-sided relationship that simply boosts your ego?

 

I agree that no matter how you slice it, a one-sided relationship is not one at all.

 

I don't think I'm dating down either. But several of my friends and family members assumed I was because he is somewhat overweight and wasn't currently in college.

 

If you - as the person dating/married to your husband - does not see yourself as dating down then is it dating down? I would say no. It is up to your mindset. Your situation is a great example of how "leagues" or the lack thereof is a matter of perception.

 

I like this!

I admit I'm a coward when I date.

I'd rather have a guy who I know will be there for me, spoil me, than someone I'm attracted to, but I know it's a character flaw thus for me to truly be interested in someone they have to be stronger (above) me in this area.

 

This sounds like you value security over attraction. I think that's a different situation - as you describe it.

 

Your examples though really are not about leagues. It's about settling for something you don't really want all the way, order to exploit certain perks.

 

It's not healthy.

 

Agree and seems to be what laninaperdida is describing.

 

I fell in love with a man who was "up" from me...though I didn't really see him like that till he broke up with me because I was "down". He was a medical doctor and told me it wasn't practical to build a future with me and that he wanted someone with ambitions like his. I was devastated. He shattered my heart and dreams... it took years to get over that breakup. Looking back, I see him as arrogant, image-oriented and materialistic. I wish I didn't waste my time with him.

 

I would not date anyone who THOUGHT they were 'up' from me. Seems inevitable he'll treat you like crap.

 

One of the problems with that concept of dating down is what happens if the doormat partner is able to gain confidence -then, watch out.

 

Haha, indeed. The doormat might leave and the "up" one will be left scratching his/her head.

 

I know two good looking players that can get any woman they want and they married really unattractive females. These guys were hooking up with hot girls all through their twenties. Then they settled in their mid thirties. You see them together and you know they settled. And one of them admitted he did settle because he was tired of the b.s from good looking females and his very overweight and unattractive wife treats him like a king. He said after a while a man just wants one partner. He doesn't work. She has a good job and pays for everything and she puts up with all his b.s.

 

Yeah, when I go back to this example, he is only "up" in terms of looks from the perspective you seem to communicate. She is up in terms of character and financial status. She is the one who settled, from what you describe.

 

I wonder why people love to argue about leagues not existing?

 

I guess we should all use the word type instead. Instead of me saying 'She's out of my league' I guess I should rephrase that to 'I'm not her type' to avoid offending people.

 

People ask about type because the WHOLE THREAD is full of people who don't agree. I think the only "objective" standards that one can use for a league are financial and education-based. Everything else is more about perception and preference.

 

I don't have an answer for the OP. I do know of people who have selected partners who they believe are in a lower peer group. Put another way, I would have to be treated pretty crappy by Jessica Alba to leave her if she selected me as a mate. I would bet my loyalty to her would be much higher than a Hollywood hunk.

 

OK - I'll bite on this one. But wouldn't Jessica Alba dating you be dating down? (Of course, I don't really think so.) Jessica Alba could probably get someone more financially successful than you who treats her well. (And according to her, she did. Her husband is a - in her words - "hot producer.") So there you go!

 

People are people. I don't try to think of them in leagues. I'll use my ex girlfriend as an example. When I started dating her, I didn't see her as the most attractive girl. And I knew she wasn't the most sociable girl. However, I had fun with her. In terms of happiness and satisfaction, she was certainly in my league (if you really want to label it as a league), and that's what really mattered to me. And while my feelings for her took a while to grow, they certainly did, and I ended up being deeply in love with her.

 

Does the other person make you happy? If so, who really cares about 'leagues' or 'ratings'.

 

That's exactly what my partner would say. On our first date he thought I was nice looking but wasn't blown out of the water or anything. Now, he couldn't imagine being more attracted to anyone else and says I am the most beautiful woman in the world. I haven't changed in station or beauty or anything ... just in his perception. I think that's more related to the fact that we are always laughing together and have so much fun.

[goodfoot]

I think I've made this comment before in another thread, but I guess I'll make it again, lol. I don't really buy into the leagues either. At the end of the day, every person has different standards or priorities of what they are looking for. Even in the OP's example, some guys are attracted to big girls. While you are counting yourself out and not approaching someone, you may be exactly what they are looking for. For the most part, I don't think exceptions disprove the rule, but here I believe it does. If you aren't in the NBA, it is impossible to play against someone in that league. USA isn't a caste system, where you have to pick someone of similar social standing. The very fact that there are exceptions prove there are no leagues. Besides, if you really want to look at relationships that way, someone is always dating down, right? Unless they have the same pay, same looks(not even sure how you can compare that), same everything. To use the Jessica Alba example, her husband is attractive, but he's not making money like she is. Honestly, he doesn't seem that amazing looks-wise, either.

[ReturnToSender]

I don’t judge people nor have I ever looked down on anyone I dated, but according to my ex by dating him I was dating down…. (A 3 year relationship went down the drain)

 

I once dated a man and he always felt like he was below me and I was this great thing that happened to him, and he put me on a high pedestal and everyday told me how perfect I was. I kept telling him that I’m not perfect and that in no way did I settle for him or ever thought that he was below me, However I couldn't convince him otherwise and when crap hit the fan and I made mistakes his whole world came crashing down because "how could someone perfect like me make mistakes." (Those were his exact words)....... He didn't know how to deal with the situation and this lead to our break up even though on numerous occasions I reminded him that no one was perfect and we all make mistakes.

[Shane505]

^^^ Ah ha! An example of dating down. It doesn't matter if you think you're not dating down. Your partner can believe it. It can lead to resentment and insecurity in the relationship. May I ask why they thought you were dating down? Was it looks wise or other reasons? Where did they see the inequality?

[ReturnToSender]

^^^ Ah ha! An example of dating down. It doesn't matter if you think you're not dating down. Your partner can believe it. It can lead to resentment and insecurity in the relationship. May I ask why they thought you were dating down? Was it looks wise or other reasons? Where did they see the inequality?

 

We really got to know each other before we started dating and I felt like he was a great guy. He thought the world of me, look wise he couldn't believe that a woman as beautiful as me would date a guy like him (he felt he was average looking) and financially I was better off than him and he also felt that I was much smarter than he was. Overall he said I’m the perfect woman with no flaws, and that mentality lead to our breakup.

[pl3asehelp]

Yes absolutely. In my opinion there are no leagues in reality and that's only something insecure people believe in.

 

I'll be the first to say I judge people all the time and I'm proud of that HOWEVER - none of that judging ever includes me thinking I'm better than anyone or anyone is better than me - to me those things are subjective and up to the individual. For example I wouldn't date a homeless person - that's definitely judgmental, right? Sure it is and I have zero problem admitting I have a preference for myself. However, I don't think I'm any better than a homeless person just because I wouldn't date one. I think only an insecure person lets others decide what defines good/bad, which is all a league is anyway, and how a person should behave.

 

It's a very dangerous thing to believe in. You're either going to put people on a pedestal or look down on them and that absolutely will never work long term in a relationship.

[pl3asehelp]

We really got to know each other before we started dating and I felt like he was a great guy. He thought the world of me, look wise he couldn't believe that a woman as beautiful as me would date a guy like him (he felt he was average looking) and financially I was better off than him and he also felt that I was much smarter than he was. Overall he said I’m the perfect woman with no flaws, and that mentality lead to our breakup.

 

In other words, he was insecure - nobody healthy thinks anyone else is perfect and puts them on a pedestal. No leagues, just a sad guy there.

[ReturnToSender]

In other words, he was insecure - nobody healthy thinks anyone else is perfect and puts them on a pedestal. No leagues, just a sad guy there.

 

I completely agree and I tried to explain this to him numerous times but he always felt like I settled for him.

[Blue Spiral]

In other words, he was insecure - nobody healthy thinks anyone else is perfect and puts them on a pedestal. No leagues, just a sad guy there.

 

You don't have to think that other people are perfect to believe in (the obvious reality of) leagues.

[pl3asehelp]

You don't have to think that other people are perfect to believe in (the obvious reality of) leagues.

 

Name someone you think is out of your league and I'll explain why they're not and how it's all in your head.

[goodfoot]

^^^ Ah ha! An example of dating down. It doesn't matter if you think you're not dating down. Your partner can believe it. It can lead to resentment and insecurity in the relationship. May I ask why they thought you were dating down? Was it looks wise or other reasons? Where did they see the inequality?

 

No, it is an example of somebody ruining a great thing by getting hung up on "leagues". The only problem was in his own head.

[Blue Spiral]

Name someone you think is out of your league and I'll explain why they're not and how it's all in your head.

 

There's no point in doing that--I'm sure, theoretically, anyone has a shot with anyone. I'm talking realistically. And it's not "in my head"...the people who think that belief/confidence is enough to be successful are the ones with something in their heads. Believing you can fly won't let you fly; believing you have a shot with (insert Hollywood actress here) doesn't mean you have a shot. Likewise, believing that leagues don't exist won't stop them from continuing to exist.

[pl3asehelp]

There's no point in doing that--I'm sure, theoretically, anyone has a shot with anyone. I'm talking realistically. And it's not "in my head"...the people who think that belief/confidence is enough to be successful are the ones with something in their heads. Believing you can fly won't let you fly; believing you have a shot with (insert Hollywood actress here) doesn't mean you have a shot. Likewise, believing that leagues don't exist won't stop them from continuing to exist.

 

That was enough. You think Hollywood actresses are better than you and out of your league. Why? Isn't it obvious to you that most Hollywood actresses have horrible relationships and lives evidenced by their way above average number of marriages, divorces, suicides, and overdoses? These are the people you consider out of your league? You're just as good or better than them man.

[Klokwurk]

That was enough. You think Hollywood actresses are better than you and out of your league. Why? Isn't it obvious to you that most Hollywood actresses have horrible relationships and lives evidenced by their way above average number of marriages, divorces, suicides, and overdoses? These are the people you consider out of your league? You're just as good or better than them man.

 

There you did it! You suggested he was better than someone else! Hah! Victory!

 

Leagues exist! Lol, this thread is so silly.

[Shane505]

There you did it! You suggested he was better than someone else! Hah! Victory!

 

Leagues exist! Lol, this thread is so silly.

 

Point for Team League whooo hoo! Lol. People are in denial Klokwurk. A lot of the girls who I graduated with in college who came from middle/upper middle income families wouldn't give a guy a chance unless they came from a similar background. Maybe we should replace the word leauge with the word standards to help them conceptualize this idea.

[goodfoot]

Point for Team League whooo hoo! Lol. People are in denial Klokwurk. A lot of the girls who I graduated with in college who came from middle/upper middle income families wouldn't give a guy a chance unless they came from a similar background. Maybe we should replace the word leauge with the word standards to help them conceptualize this idea.

 

That's my point. You don't know someone's standards unless they tell you. You can't extrapolate from how they look or how much money they have what kind of person they want. I don't think it's denial.

[minorissues]

I haven't read this whole thread so I'm probably going to repeat something that's already been said...but I think it's less about "better" or "worse" and more about "different" and "compatible." For example, education has always been a high priority for me and I have always gotten along best with highly educated, career-oriented types. NOT because they're in "my league" or because they're "better" than anyone else, but because we share similar priorities and goals in life, i.e. time-wise, career ambitions vs. family, etc. I have fallen for guys with less education who I got along with amazingly on a personal level (college drop-outs, construction guys, mechanics, etc.) who ended up breaking up with me because they didn't think I was spending enough time with them due to school/career, or because education and career ambitions were not as attractive to them in a woman as impeccable social skills, physical attractiveness, spontenaiety, etc. I think in most cases it's more about feeling comfortable with people whose lifestyles we are familiar with and who share similar priorities and goals with us.