I'm done trying. Just SEX please?

[frree]

It's not that he wants sex with women that's the problem. It's the fact he thinks he should get sex because he's spending out money. That's insulting to a lot of women, and he'd be better off not spending out so much money on someone, because they can tell what he's up to. Ironically, by being less wasteful with his money he's more likley to get the sex he so much craves.

[Iakasot]

It's not that he wants sex with women that's the problem. It's the fact he thinks he should get sex because he's spending out money. That's insulting to a lot of women, and he'd be better off not spending out so much money on someone, because they can tell what he's up to. Ironically, by being less wasteful with his money he's more likley to get the sex he so much craves.

 

Are people kidding themselves? He obviously doesn't think anybody owes him sex, it's more along the lines of "sex would be nice, and it would be nice to see her have a good time because I liked her enough to spend money on her". Why twist words?

[lalalollipops]

^ lol are you even reading the same topic as us? Cos that's not what he is ACTUALLY saying or thinking

[Iakasot]

^ lol are you even reading the same topic as us? Cos that's not what he is ACTUALLY saying or thinking

 

Okay, ask the OP if he thinks the girl owes him sex, and see who's right. I know pretty well what he's thinking, as I've been friends with many guys in the same situation.

[katzenjammer]

what? we don't have to ask the OP anything, because he has already said it.

 

let's analyze this quote: "I wasn't looking for SEX from this girl right away. Everyone said that I SHOULD'VE GOT at least a HUG AND A KISS...but no!!!! I never even got a "thank you"."

 

i.e, he is trying to buy his way into this girls pants and is frustrated that he hasn't gotten what he "SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN" by now with his $$ spent, which in his view (and apparently that of his friends) is "at least a hug and a kiss."

 

it's interesting that you say i am "financially exploiting men" .. if men don't have any expectations of trying to buy me their way into my pants by spending money on me, how exactly am i financially exploiting them? they simply want to spend money to be nice (is this what you are claiming?), and so i let them!

 

a guy does not have to hide his sexuality at all... everyone knows men want sex! in fact, in society's view, there is something seriously wrong with them if they don't. but a woman is at risk of being labeled a * * * * if she admits the same thing. Hence the lovely quote from poster roboduck, "Find the dirtiest trashiest club in town. Go there on a Friday and find the dirtiest trashiest woman there......You can always tell the type. Fake tan, big fake blonde hair, very little clothing, aviator sunglasses, high-heel shoes, doing everything she can to show off her boobs, thong underwear. Just look for one of those, fill her with booze and roll her out the door when you're done."

 

so who really has to do the "hiding" here?

[HappyFlow]

OK, wow. You are a cheapskate. If you honestly think you'll win over a chick's panties with a mere 200 bucks, you are sadly mistaken. Girls also have the intuition to know whether or not someone likes them, but likes to test them anyway. And if you are looking for plain sex, then look for a " * * * * buddy", as they call it. There are several out there, but some can wait nearly months before actually getting into action. That is only some though, but I would like to stay with someone that I know is going to be there.

[Iakasot]

Thanks for quoting, ma'am. I like the part where he said he wasn't looking for sex right away, and he said that his friends think he should've gotten a kiss. I guess it was stupid of me to think that him saying he wasn't looking for sex right away didn't really mean that he felt like he was owed sex.

 

Actually, I take that back. This paints a picture of someone who dates the way he feels like he's supposed to (men paying for women), because that's how he was raised, and isn't sure what his options are, or where he should be at after a first or 2nd date, due to inexperience with women. Due to his not being sure, he asks his friends, and they tell him what usually happens on such dates to compare to. He wasn't expecting sex, nor did he feel like he was owed it, but he wanted a 2nd opinion aside from his friends, so he came to ENA. Your post seems very bitter towards men, so I'll ask you a question. Do you feel justified taking money from men because you feel like you are oppressed by the patriarchy and should be compensated for it? Did you know that women ages 20-29 in US now make more than their male counterparts on average? We're the ones who need money =p

 

If you read the OP's first post, the only thing he feels like he should've gotten is a "thank you", and that's just expecting common human decency. I still don't understand why you, and others, insist on twisting his words. He came here for help, not to be attacked with some sort of an angry outrage. It seems like you were absolutely livid after my last post. I do not know what kind of psychological shortcomings might cause someone to take someone else's money because they feel like that person is oppressing their sexuality, but I would recommend exploring whatever anger you may harbor with a professional. It certainly does not help to throw it here, all it leads to is twisting OP's words, and discouraging him from coming to ENA for further help, and if that happens that would truly be unfortunate, as I and others wish to help him.

[katzenjammer]

my original post was meant to help him too -- help him succeed in realizing that money doesn't always equate sex and that if he is worried about the amount of money he is spending, he might have even better luck without spending any at all. And as for "that's how he was raised," well, I was also taught that interracial relationships were wrong when I was a child (and actually too that a man should always pay for everything on dates) -- just because we were raised that way doesn't mean it is correct.

 

yeah, he wasn't looking for it right away (only after he had spent more money!) -- for now a hug and kiss would suffice. he is complaining about having not gotten his deserved hug and kiss, or, believe it or not, even a thank you! he also mentions earlier on that he "should have gone to a strip club" rather than wasting the money on his date. clearly, he has expectations for his $$ spent and those expectations include physical activity -- the issue of "when" that physical activity occurs is really irrelevant, the point is, the expectation is clearly there. and the entire thread was made because he is disappointed that those expectations have not been met! i'm not sure i understand why that is not clear.

 

" It seems like you were absolutely livid after my last post. I do not know what kind of psychological shortcomings might cause someone to take someone else's money because they feel like that person is oppressing their sexuality..."

 

accusing someone of psychological problems and getting "absolutely livid" is a pretty weak response to an argument, so i am not going to address either of those points. but i can assure you that i never get "absolutely livid" at the internet.

 

i would like to point out that you didn't actually address any of the points in my previous post, apart from a quote which you feel i misinterpreted, but i will go ahead and answer your question anyway: "Do you feel justified taking money from men because you feel like you are oppressed by the patriarchy and should be compensated for it? Did you know that women ages 20-29 in US now make more than their male counterparts on average? We're the ones who need money =p"

 

I feel justified in "taking" money from men merely because they are choosing to spend it on me (or rather IF they choose to do so, it's not like i am surfing around for men who do this -- my time is much better spent on men who recognize that this is unnecessary, which is why I never choose the type of men who do this as long term or even short term partners). You are trying to argue that men have no expectations with their money spent on dates, so I am not sure how you can simultaneously claim that AND that I am exploiting them (when according to you the men don't think I owe them anything in return). So I am really curious to hear your thoughts on that.

[Iakasot]

I never argued men in general have no expectations with their money spent on dates, I just stated that the OP didn't feel anybody owed him sex on his date. You're twisting words again, and that's EXACTLY why I didn't respond to most of your post and chose to focus on the OP's plight and situation instead. I feel sorry for the people who get into relationships with you, as I'm sure you twist their words in arguments as well. I'm curious as to how you would respond when the OP comes back to the topic and says "I agree with Iakasot, people did twist my words, and I did not feel like I was owed sex", what with you being so sure that "we don't need to ask the OP", are you still gonna argue what OP's thoughts and feelings REALLY are, even though he'll say point blank they're different? Maybe we don't even need the OP, maybe you can just tell us what's it's like to be a guy who can't get a girl and this can become your topic.

 

The reason why I said you exploit men financially, is because guys who are doing this are clearly inexperienced in dating, and instead of helping them and telling them what they're doing wrong, you're just going "thanks bye". That's the reason why I said you were bitter, because no normal person who respects the opposite sex would do that. I'm not saying those guys respect the opposite sex, I'm sure some of them don't, but a lot of them were just raised to believe that you're supposed to spend a lot of money on a woman on date, even with stuff like their mother telling them to "be nice to girls". Your goal should be to help people, not try to get as much money from guys you're not attracted to as you can. I guarantee you that those guys have problems with other girls too and can't get laid, and you've never been in the shoes of a guy who can't get laid, I have, and when I wasn't in those shoes, I had friends who were, constantly. A lot of guys are in those shoes, and the OP will agree with me. I hope he does come back, despite the anti-male sexuality hostility being created here.

[NightLily]

Well if all you want is a "buddy" don't try to make this lady into one. She is not obligated to sleep with you and all of the women I have as close friends wouldn't either at this point. It depends on the person but a lot of people wait to get to know eachother at least.

 

I wouldn't expect it to be too easy to find a stranger willing to go along with what you want though.

[frree]

Are people kidding themselves? He obviously doesn't think anybody owes him sex, it's more along the lines of "sex would be nice, and it would be nice to see her have a good time because I liked her enough to spend money on her". Why twist words?

 

He does seem to be implying he's disappointed he didn't get sex. I'm a man myself btw so quit your whining.

[Iakasot]

He does seem to be implying he's disappointed he didn't get sex. I'm a man myself btw so quit your whining.

 

He's disappointed that the girl didn't even have enough basic human decency to muster up a "thank you", and that the girl seems to not be interested in him. Anyone gets disappointed if a person they're interested in isn't interested back in them. Disappointment doesn't necessarily have to do with sex. He came here because he wants to explore other options besides what he's been brought up to believe he's "supposed to do" in relationships. I've been through the "sex only" phase too, I think any guy has, it doesn't mean a guy only wants sex and only gets disappointed over not getting sex, as some people here are trying to twist it to be.

[frree]

Don't you agree he'd be better off not spending as much money on someone next time? Perhaps let them buy their own tickets for a concert. At least that way he'll know the woman he get's with at least has some interest in him, rather then just take him for a mug.

 

I'm not trying to belittle or knock this guy at all. Just trying to say you can't buy a woman's heart or even her respect. If she tells him to get lost there's not a lot he can do about it.

[Iakasot]

Don't you agree he'd be better off not spending as much money on someone next time? Perhaps let them buy their own tickets for a concert. At least that way he'll know the woman he get's with at least has some interest in him, rather then just take him for a mug.

 

I'm not trying to belittle or knock this guy at all. Just trying to say you can't buy a woman's heart or even her respect. If she tells him to get lost there's not a lot he can do about it.

 

I agree, I'm against spending money on women, personally don't, and I think it should be equal, but I'll defend a guy's right to spend money on a girl without feeling like he's somehow inadequate for it and that he's less than a man and doesn't respect women because he does, and that he DESERVES for girls to exploit him financially. If a girl spends money on guys no one is gonna tell her she's inadequate and that they use girls like her for money and that she has no chance with them and doesn't respect men, just think about the double standard, man. While I agree that he shouldn't spend money on girls, I also don't think he should be treated like people are treating him here for doing so thus far.

[Blue Spiral]

I gave up on the whole "relationship" concept years ago. FWBs for me, and I've never spent a dime on an actual date. It's insanely difficult, but it's allowed me to keep my dignity, and that's what I really care about.

[xxNPxx]

As a frequent "clubber" with significant dance skills and looks to go along with it, getting a girl to just have sex who doesn't look like a whale or at least a close cousin is harder then you think. Sure you can buy a girl drinks, but what usually happens is you buy a girl drinks and she goes home with the more attractive guy that wasn't buying her drinks.

 

* * * * s will sleep with anyone*.

 

* who looks hot and treats them right. aka NOT YOU.

 

I was in a relationship that was mostly about sex. It helps to have a six pack and be good looking as well know how to turn your lady friend on. Would you have sex with a girl who you don't find attractive? Why expect her to?

 

Now if you want to have sex with the girl you are with now, you need to stop taking her to concerts unless you are friends. If she isn't your girl friend she doesn't get anything. Not a dinner, not a flower, not even half of your candy bar. Go dutch treat and if she gets angry you can tell her that when she becomes your girlfriend you will gladly pay for dinner.

 

Secondly, if she's thirty and you haven't kissed her on the second date that you did something wrong, you aren't her lover. You should have kissed her by now even if you were going to crap your pants in freight. Otherwise you can't create attraction and you will forever be your friend.

 

Last but not least, you can't be a player and a virgin at the same time. Guys who are experts with women get sex from the hottest girls and pay nothing for it. You won't be able to do so if you managed to get friend zoned like this. Sorry for being harsh but it's the truth.

[katzenjammer]

Don't you think it is a little strange that you are claiming I am the one twisting his words yet nearly every single person posting here, male and female, has agreed about the OP's general expectations? Unless you are the only poster capable of reading comprehension who has responded thus far, I'm pretty sure that indicates that you are the one who is either "twisting," or perhaps misunderstanding, his words.

 

Back to the "exploiting" thing -- it's not as though I ask men to pay, in fact I ALWAYS suggest on the first date that we pay separately, but often times men absolutely insist on paying. Let me actually tell you that I live in Japan now and having people pay for me is not always a deal-breaker for me because I know how deeply ingrained it is in Japanese culture and it is TRUE that women here make much, much less money than men and many quit their jobs immediately after finding a husband. But (assuming you are posting from America, where I am also from) it is a well known fact that as you said yourself women are in some age / location / position brackets even surpassing men in terms of salary. So as that is the case, a man ought to be wise enough to realize he doesn't have to pay, and if he insists on it -- I'm not sure how I am exploiting anything. I let him insist, perhaps see if he will let me get the bill on the second date, if not -- I say goodbye.

 

"you've never been in the shoes of a guy who can't get laid, I have, and when I wasn't in those shoes, I had friends who were, constantly. A lot of guys are in those shoes, and the OP will agree with me"

 

No, but I have been in the shoes of a woman who can't get laid by a man that I find to be a desirable and attractive mate, as everyone has, of both sexes. Believe it or not, women want sex just as much as men do. That doesn't mean you pick up and start spending $200 on the object of your desire -- it means you put yourself out there and continue to meet more people and be patient (OR hire a prostitute -- if one only cares about the sex, then why not pay a woman who asks directly for the money rather than try and pay one who doesn't want it?).

 

I'd like you to take a moment and think about what you are attacking in your arguments -- is it my argument, or is it me personally, a random stranger off the internet? You've now said that you feel sorry for anyone who dates me, that I am twisting an argument, that I am hostile towards male sexuality and that I have psychological problems and should see a therapist -- all because we have a different reading on the OP's original statement & have expressed different opinions. I have not made any personal attacks on you, because I don't know you at all -- so please give me the same respect.

[frree]

I agree, I'm against spending money on women, personally don't, and I think it should be equal, but I'll defend a guy's right to spend money on a girl without feeling like he's somehow inadequate for it and that he's less than a man and doesn't respect women because he does, and that he DESERVES for girls to exploit him financially. If a girl spends money on guys no one is gonna tell her she's inadequate and that they use girls like her for money and that she has no chance with them and doesn't respect men, just think about the double standard, man. While I agree that he shouldn't spend money on girls, I also don't think he should be treated like people are treating him here for doing so thus far.

 

I have no problem spending money on a woman if I know it's for sex. I've had sex with call girls before. I just think if it's a date then you go equal. I'm only try to wise the guy up otherwise he will end up getting used and abused, and start to feel bitter towards women.

 

You're right there's double standards, but that's life unfortunately.

[lalalollipops]

He's disappointed that the girl didn't even have enough basic human decency to muster up a "thank you", and that the girl seems to not be interested in him. Anyone gets disappointed if a person they're interested in isn't interested back in them. Disappointment doesn't necessarily have to do with sex. He came here because he wants to explore other options besides what he's been brought up to believe he's "supposed to do" in relationships. I've been through the "sex only" phase too, I think any guy has, it doesn't mean a guy only wants sex and only gets disappointed over not getting sex, as some people here are trying to twist it to be.

 

I have a feeling you would have done badly in you SATS as you can't read btwn the lines??

Also seems like a case of projection to me, you're attacking another member when it's not necessary u knw? Makes u look ...

[dali]

If your coming of as a desperate loser trying to buy his way into girls pants then your need to re-evaluate things. The OP is coming off as desperate sad to say.

[Dougie_D]

Ok...Can I PLEASE clarify somethings???

 

1. I don't go after females and say "Damn, I just want to bang them." I DO have thoughts such as, "Does she enjoy the same music I do?, Does she like sports?, What are things she does that I don't like that much?", etc.

2. I replied to this post after discussing my situation to my roomates: They said, "You should've gone and got yourself a hooker for that much money you spent on her...you would've got sex at least!"

3. I DO want to have SEX...I just get the feeling that doing it THROUGH a relationship is more difficult than I thought. I don't know anyone that has been in a relationship and did not have SEX or at least fooled around. I'm running out of options.

4. If you don't have SEX on your mind and you are SINGLE and you WANT to HAVE a FAMILY, then you are a liar.

5. If you master-bate, then you are always looking for a SEXUAL partner.

6. The problem I see NOT paying for the entire meal/movie/date/etc... is THE GIRL will put me in the FRIENDZONE immediately. I thought girls want to feel "TAKEN CARE OF"

 

I guess I'm VERY confused on the "we should split the check" deal. Wouldn't the GUY look cheap? I don't PAY for my FRIENDS meals. I don't want the girl to feel like I am treating her as a FRIEND...but if a GIRL says "let's split the check"...TO ME, I would feel like she is NOT INTO ME and just likes me a friend.

 

What am I missing???

[agatha]

communication. your message isn't getting accross right, or you are not reading things well.

 

since you don't seem to have all those subtle people skills that, maybe you should try to lay your cards down instead of playing naval battle on the blind and only hitting water all around.

 

I see nothing wrong in asking a girl 'hey, we've known each other for a while, I think you are a very nice girl and would like to get to know you better.' as for paying, I'm usually the one who asks if they would be offended if I paid mine, and I really see so much dissent on the matter that I'd rather not advise. there are countless threads on the matter on the 'dating' section of this forum, maybe you could try and draw your own conclusions.

 

and just for the record: dating is a lottery, no success rate guaranteed.

[dramallama]

I think people should cut Dougie some slack here. He wants a relationship and the sex that comes with it, so he isn't some sleazy guy just wanting to use women. And at least he is trying and he's even put his dating profile on here to get feedback. Dating is hard for some people, but at least he's got a good attitude and is willing to improve his chances.

 

Dougie, you gotta get rid of the goatee, though. You will look so much better without it.

[ProtestTheHero]

"Hi."

 

"Hi."

 

"Here's a drink."

 

"You're buying me a drink?"

 

"Yeah, I know. I usually save that move for people I like but I got bored."

 

"haha"

 

blahblahblahblahblahblah drink, drink, drink, drink, drink blahblahblahblahblahblah

 

(Vague sexual experience you partially remember + hangover)

 

Boy wasn't that fun? Yeah it was.

[Capricorn3]

"Hi."

 

"Hi."

 

"Here's a drink."

 

"You're buying me a drink?"

 

"Yeah, I know. I usually save that move for people I like but I got bored."

 

"haha"

 

blahblahblahblahblahblah drink, drink, drink, drink, drink blahblahblahblahblahblah

 

(Vague sexual experience you partially remember + hangover)

 

Boy wasn't that fun? Yeah it was.

Best post ever! lmao! Had to rep you for that one, lol.

 

OP: About splitting the check - these days it's the norm and most people accept it as such. In fact, most people expect to split the check. Maybe you can pay on the first date if that makes you feel better, but from then on, split the check.