I'm done trying. Just SEX please?

[agatha]

just saw your profile on okcupid, dougie - get rid of the goatee, you are really cute beneath it.

[Dougie_D]

I honestly want to shave but when my family and friends tell me not too.. I have to trust them, right? I don't have much of a chin. The goatee hides it. I'll shave and post a pic but it's probably will not look good

[katzenjammer]

I guess I'm VERY confused on the "we should split the check" deal. Wouldn't the GUY look cheap? I don't PAY for my FRIENDS meals. I don't want the girl to feel like I am treating her as a FRIEND...but if a GIRL says "let's split the check"...TO ME, I would feel like she is NOT INTO ME and just likes me a friend.

 

What am I missing???

 

Well, for me personally a friendship is the most important basis of a relationship, so that's exactly how I want my date to treat me -- as a friend! I don't see why the guy would look cheap. Why then would the girl not also look cheap, if she is also splitting the check and not paying for your meal? The way I have dealt with my relationships in the past is to split everything equally in the beginning stages of dating. Then, when you get to know someone more intimately after months of dating when the relationship is established, if both partners aren't making about the same salary, whichever partner earns more (and I have gone both ways on this) can occasionally foot the bill. Or keeping it completely equal is ok too -- whatever your choice is. When I was dating an artist who was scraping by on his salary that was half of mine it didn't feel right to split 50/50, and when I had a boyfriend who made 3 times as much as I did it also didn't feel right.

 

And then of course you can find girls out there who probably like "being taken care of" and not having to pay for anything if that is really what you are looking for, I guess I just don't hang around with that particular crowd, and I think the majority of girls out there are perfectly fine with and even appreciate 50/50, especially when you are getting to know someone.

[dali]

Dougie I think there is a difference between buying a girl a drink or coffee which is appropriate and spending $200 on her when you just met her which isnt appropriate.

[Iakasot]

Don't you think it is a little strange that you are claiming I am the one twisting his words yet nearly every single person posting here, male and female, has agreed about the OP's general expectations? Unless you are the only poster capable of reading comprehension who has responded thus far, I'm pretty sure that indicates that you are the one who is either "twisting," or perhaps misunderstanding, his words.

You know, he just made a post clarifying that he only pays because he doesn't wanna be put in the friendzone and that he wouldn't pay for a friend's meal, so he pays for girls he's trying to get to know from the beginning. That's his reason, not what you judged as "she'll owe me sex lulz". Like you ignored a lot of things he posted, and focused with laser precision on "sex would be nice at some point" and twisted it as "she'll OWE me sex RIGHT NOW". If you don't see a problem with that, then I don't know how you could ever see yourself being wrong in anything. Which defeats the purpose of a discussion with you as in a discussion both people should stay open to the other's point of view(which in a previous post you got on my case for not replying to every little thing you said).

 

Back to the "exploiting" thing -- it's not as though I ask men to pay, in fact I ALWAYS suggest on the first date that we pay separately, but often times men absolutely insist on paying. Let me actually tell you that I live in Japan now and having people pay for me is not always a deal-breaker for me because I know how deeply ingrained it is in Japanese culture and it is TRUE that women here make much, much less money than men and many quit their jobs immediately after finding a husband. But (assuming you are posting from America, where I am also from) it is a well known fact that as you said yourself women are in some age / location / position brackets even surpassing men in terms of salary. So as that is the case, a man ought to be wise enough to realize he doesn't have to pay, and if he insists on it -- I'm not sure how I am exploiting anything. I let him insist, perhaps see if he will let me get the bill on the second date, if not -- I say goodbye.

Again, they could be insisting out of politeness because that's how they were brought up. You could at least have the courtesy to tell them that by paying the would ruin their chances with you. But you're like "Oh, okay *takes money* thanks have a good one" and then just never call them AFTER taking their money (them paying for meal and date). I heard dating is pretty easy for western men in Japan btw, seems like it would be a good country to visit at some point.

 

"you've never been in the shoes of a guy who can't get laid, I have, and when I wasn't in those shoes, I had friends who were, constantly. A lot of guys are in those shoes, and the OP will agree with me"

 

No, but I have been in the shoes of a woman who can't get laid by a man that I find to be a desirable and attractive mate, as everyone has, of both sexes. Believe it or not, women want sex just as much as men do. That doesn't mean you pick up and start spending $200 on the object of your desire -- it means you put yourself out there and continue to meet more people and be patient (OR hire a prostitute -- if one only cares about the sex, then why not pay a woman who asks directly for the money rather than try and pay one who doesn't want it?).

Being in the shoes of someone being rejected by 1% of men when you're rejecting 99% of men is worlds apart from being in the shoes of someone who is rejected by 100% of women and rejects 0% of them. It's like claiming you're starving because you don't have caviar and crab legs and rejecting bread, when there's people of the opposite sex who can't even get bread and are starving, and equating the two, that's just ludicrous to me. You've never truly been in the shoes of someone who feels like they're starving in that respect, and have no options, because you've always had options, just not "options that are desirable to you".

 

I'd like you to take a moment and think about what you are attacking in your arguments -- is it my argument, or is it me personally, a random stranger off the internet? You've now said that you feel sorry for anyone who dates me, that I am twisting an argument, that I am hostile towards male sexuality and that I have psychological problems and should see a therapist -- all because we have a different reading on the OP's original statement & have expressed different opinions. I have not made any personal attacks on you, because I don't know you at all -- so please give me the same respect.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a FACT that he doesn't feel like any girl OWES him sex. But I know from his last post that you're gonna twist "I don't know anyone that has been in a relationship and did not have SEX or at least fooled around." as "so any girl I date owes me sex". See how easy it is to anticipate what you think? I have good reading comprehension, and I understand your point of view perfectly, but to twist words and presume to know for a FACT a guy's motivations, reasons, and then telling me that "we don't even need to hear from him", that to me is disrespectful. And yes, I really did feel like you disrespected male sexuality, so naturally I'm not gonna be too happy, so don't try to say I'm attacking a random stranger on the internet. I'm simply defending male sexuality, and trying to point out your flaws of reasoning with regards to Dougie.

 

I have a feeling you would have done badly in you SATS as you can't read btwn the lines??

Also seems like a case of projection to me, you're attacking another member when it's not necessary u knw? Makes u look ...

 

I got 1540 on the old SAT (when it was out of 1600). Isn't it ironic that you're attacking my intellect while trying to get on my case about attacking someone else? Does that mean you're projecting your own insecurities in your intelligence on me? I can't say I know for sure, because I've only read one post by you. The other poster's work I've read a bit more of. She's made it quite clear how she misinterpreted what Dougie said. I can't tolerate how she said Dougie felt that girls OWE him sex. Why is it so hard to understand the difference between something similar to "sex is nice, I think every person wants it at some point" and something like "she owes me sex for me paying, she doesn't have a choice". Why twist like that? Why not just be normal and understanding people instead of trying to put everything into a little box.

[Blue Spiral]

I agree with you 100%, Iakasot.

[lalalollipops]

If you want to insinuate things about my intelligence at least use proper grammar. *face palm*

And no, I have no insecurities about my intelligence lol, I've always gotten really good marks with ease. Got my genes from my super achiever parents (mum went to uni when she was 15, both are engineers (though dad got into Med) both were class presidents, dad was also his school's sports 'star'. So what can I say? *giggle* they're blessed.

And I guess you're alone on your opinions that the OP was only wanting company. So obviously everyone else in this thread must be the ones in the wrong. Great. I totally get it now. GOOD JOB

 

OP. Don't try so hard, be more chill and the girls won't sense things and get turned off.

[Blue Spiral]

Got my genes from my super achiever parents (mum went to uni when she was 15, both are engineers (though dad got into Med) both were class presidents, dad was also his school's sports 'star'. So what can I say? *giggle* they're blessed.

 

When I talk about confidence being unattractive, this is what I mean. Good lord.

[agatha]

I honestly want to shave but when my family and friends tell me not too.. I have to trust them, right? I don't have much of a chin. The goatee hides it. I'll shave and post a pic but it's probably will not look good

 

well, family and friends didn't really work for me - when voting for stay or change, they tend to vote for staying, and I actually got better results after a radical change of looks (and attitude, I must add).

 

for the record:

point 1 against goatee - it's just hair, it grows back.

point 2 against goatee - it doesn't hide your round chin, just weirds it out.

point 3 against goatee - in pics without it, you look cute.

 

 

p.s.: I'm right now biting my tongue trying not to troll lallalollipops. girl, try not to make it so hard to resist, will you? thanks.

[dramallama]

also, the goatee look is a very hard look to pull off. Results can be so-so and IMO it looks a bit '90s and out of style.

[Dougie_D]

I put up a picture on OKC. I just shaved.

[Iakasot]

If you want to insinuate things about my intelligence at least use proper grammar. *face palm*

And no, I have no insecurities about my intelligence lol, I've always gotten really good marks with ease. Got my genes from my super achiever parents (mum went to uni when she was 15, both are engineers (though dad got into Med) both were class presidents, dad was also his school's sports 'star'. So what can I say? *giggle* they're blessed.

And I guess you're alone on your opinions that the OP was only wanting company. So obviously everyone else in this thread must be the ones in the wrong. Great. I totally get it now. GOOD JOB

 

OP. Don't try so hard, be more chill and the girls won't sense things and get turned off.

Your post would be a lot more effective, if it didn't come right after someone posted:

I agree with you 100%, Iakasot.

It would also be more effective if you didn't start any of your sentences with "And", "So", and closed your first set of parentheses before starting another one. To summarize: 1) Other people agree with me. 2)You criticize people's grammar in a clearly informal setting, whilst your own is obviously lacking. 3)You spent 90% of your post talking about how great you are, then edited it putting in "OP. Don't try so hard, be more chill and the girls won't sense things and get turned off.", thinking no one would notice. Only an insecure person would feel the need to engage in so much self affirmation. I'm sure such a brilliant person as you whose depth of intellect could be fathomed by no one has looked at OP's dating site profile to be able to come up with that enthralling and well-informed sentence that caters specifically to his dating needs.

 

Dougie_D's, I actually looked at your okcupid profile, and I don't agree with what most are saying about you looking better without the goatee. However, I think that has to do with your innate facial expressions more than the merit of the goatee itself. Your facial expressions in all your pictures are very nice, and I feel like your particular facial complexion would be more suited to arrogant badboy facial expressions. I realize this isn't who you are, but these were the looks you have been given, and you want to maximize your dating potential, so you might as well at least try, you know?

 

Think Dr Foreman from House MD: image removed

[littlestar]

Seems some men arent into the whole no strings attached sex thing either!

[agent1607307371]

Mod Note: Keep posts on topic. Post respectfully.

[TomboyMS]

I put up a picture on OKC. I just shaved.

 

Dougie, I think it would smart for you to listen to the pointers that you are getting from women. That's who you want to date right?

[Iakasot]

Dougie, I think it would smart for you to listen to the pointers that you are getting from women. That's who you want to date right?

 

Why is there no successful dating book for men written by a woman then? Also, a lot of mothers say to their sons "be nice to girls", and a lot of girls get turned off in response and tell those guys "you're too nice", and go to bed with guys who are aloof, mysterious, and confident, guys they feel "secure" with, and get a rush thinking about, because it is those guys who know how to spark attraction.

[agatha]

"be nice" is more on terms of basic politeness (as in 'don't fart, don't burp, don't pick your nose, and PLEASE eat with your mouth shut') than 'lay down the red carpet and lick the very path she walks'. that's where most guys miss the whole point of being 'nice'.

 

on our behalf, I can hardly reccomend any dating guide written by a man that is worth the time either.

[Brig]

Ok...Can I PLEASE clarify somethings???

 

6. The problem I see NOT paying for the entire meal/movie/date/etc... is THE GIRL will put me in the FRIENDZONE immediately. I thought girls want to feel "TAKEN CARE OF"

 

I guess I'm VERY confused on the "we should split the check" deal. Wouldn't the GUY look cheap? I don't PAY for my FRIENDS meals. I don't want the girl to feel like I am treating her as a FRIEND...but if a GIRL says "let's split the check"...TO ME, I would feel like she is NOT INTO ME and just likes me a friend.

 

What am I missing???

 

I'm just going to chime in on the who pays thing.. I've had a lot of experience with women, countless dates, flings, hookups and lots of relationships (and more than my fair share of heartache and heartbreak ) and I personally think it's in bad taste for the man to not pay the expense of the date, generally speaking, early on in dating.. It just feels low class not to, to me anyways.. There's a lot of subtleties at play during the date that reflect your confidence level, your expectations, and how much you are in control of yourself and the situation and those things are more telling about the likelihood of something happening rather than who pays. To me, when dating someone new, I look at paying for the date like tipping.. if I can't or don't want to pay for the meal AND tip, then I probably shouldn't be dining out. As it is for paying for the date.. I just expect to do it and if I can't afford or don't want to pay for the courtship process, then I shouldn't be going on the date.. and all this is with zero.. zero.. zero expectations of getting anything in return.. if I build up any expectations in my mind about the girl I'm with, it's totally based on how well we're clicking, what kind of vibe she's giving, things like that. I think paying, if you do it with the right demeanor, shows class, being in control.. like I said.. if you do it with the right demeanor.. I personally wouldn't recommend getting in the habit of expecting the lady pay for anything, but that's just me.. to each their own..

[TomboyMS]

Why is there no successful dating book for men written by a woman then? Also, a lot of mothers say to their sons "be nice to girls", and a lot of girls get turned off in response and tell those guys "you're too nice", and go to bed with guys who are aloof, mysterious, and confident, guys they feel "secure" with, and get a rush thinking about, because it is those guys who know how to spark attraction.

 

Your position seems to be that he's doing just fine. Yet he's unsuccessful. Hmmmmm.

[Iakasot]

Your position seems to be that he's doing just fine. Yet he's unsuccessful. Hmmmmm.

 

Who do you think gave him the dating advice he's now following of being nice to girls, friendship first, and paying for girls. You think other guys are gonna tell him that he's gotta give money to girls? Or are girls the ones likely to say "I want a man who will make me feel taken care of financially". The dating strategy he's following probably came from advice of his mother and female friends. Yes, pick-up books for men written by men work. Most girls' immediate reaction is "it's not gonna work on me", but do they really think the guy who's gonna be using those strategies will tell them what they're doing? That's akin to a girl showing a guy a picture of what she looks like without make-up and admitting what's real and what's not. Girls are better at telling other girls what make-up and clothes to attract guys with, because they know what works. Guys are better at telling guys how to be confident and secure in the right way to attract girls, because they know what works from experience. The two genders are attracted to different things, men are more visual, women look for stable and confident men. Not to say personality doesn't matter to men and looks don't matter to women, they do, but it's a different proportion of attraction based on them than for the opposite sex.

[TomboyMS]

If he looks geeky and isn't well groomed all the David Deangelo crap in the world won't help him.

[Dougie_D]

remember you are talking about me.

[TomboyMS]

Sorry. I meant in general not you in particular.

[mines]

Hi Dougie_D

I have read parts of this thread, mostly beginning and then towards the end (I was busy in the middle somehow, haha) and I really agree with Iakasot, when he said that your facial features are well suited for the 'bad boy expression', aka Dr. Foreman from House. . . . and I can think of a couple of really hot guys here at enotalone, who have 'bad boy expressions' on their profile pics and I prefer those pics, vs the smiling pics. The man I have the hots for, usually has a very solemn expression on his face - but when we are alone together I get to see his smiles as they happen naturally. But I am still turned on by his strong, brooding look, most of all.

 

That said, you do have a very nice smile, friendly and open, but. . . I am only speaking to what gets my attention, as a woman. The smiling friendly guy is going to be friend zoned and the mysterious, rather brooding looking guy is going to capture my interest and make me wonder what he's thinking (then I start thinking, hehe) That is only MY opinion, I don't want to get into any conflicts - but I read lots of your posts and I really like you - you seem like a terrific man. There is nothing about your looks that should prevent you from having female attention!!!

[NightLily]

^I don't know... I'm definitely more attracted to a guy if he has a nice smile. I don't mean the teeth but that he just has a really happy smile. I might watch the brooding type from the distance but I will have an actual interest in the one with the amazing smile who I connect with.