For all the teachers out there...a student is driving me mad!

[muchacha_abril]

Hello ENA,

I have been teaching Spanish at an urban college and this is my second semester. My first semester was heaven compared to this. I'm facing a situation that makes me anxious every time I have to go to class and feeling scared.

 

I have a student that's constantly sabotaging my class. He sits in the back and laughs the whole time. He is also constantly leaving the classroom (sometimes for 15 minutes or more) in a defiant attitude or leaves the classroom to run errands and comes back later as if nothing happened. Needless to say, I'm sick of this jerk. He's about 30 years old and he has no respect for my class or his classmates. Other students have complained to me about the distraction that this guy creates but I honestly have no idea how to control it.

 

I feel like an idiot telling a guy that's older than me how he should behave in class. I feel like an idiot threatening students with lowering their participation grade, or marking them late so they behave like college students. It's exhausting and depressing. How can I neutralize him?

 

I'm sure the pedagogues out there will recognize this kind of student. Please, tell me what to do, because I'm lost. And sad.

 

Thank you

[Seraphim]

Is there any way you can have him removed from the course? There has to be some sort of discipline the college can employ for the sake of the rest of the class and you.

[Capricorn3]

Take it up with your superiors? Surely they can dismiss him?

[Moontiger]

He is 30 years old! He should know better than this. Don't feel "like an idiot" for anything you do. Treat him as you would any other student. If he doesn't want to take the class seriously then it should be reflected in his grade.

[mgirl]

Gosh, i'd want to ban him from the class, however, i am not an experienced teacher. My first instinct would be to document what he does (which you have already), and ask to speak to him after class. If he refuses, take your complaint to your manager and demand that he / she does something about it on the grounds that it is a disruption to the rest of the class. If he complies, briefly outline his behaviour and then ban him from the class.

[muchacha_abril]

Yes, I did document everything and spoke to the chair person of my department. She told me that the administration doesn't allow me to ban him from the class. Why? Well, because he paid. Unfortunately, me and all the other students have to put up with his behavior. A couple other students have started behaving similarly (the herd mentality) and I'm exhausted.

 

Tomorrow, before class starts I'm gonna threaten the whole class (the whole class is not the problem, it's just this guy) again with marking them late if they keep getting up and leaving. This guy took this class already and failed it because he had too many absences. I spoke to his professor from last semester and she told me he was "a difficult person, but good at heart". Should I just play blind? Focus on those that want to learn? How can I disarm him?

[lilypadgirl]

I'm also a new teacher so I completely commiserate with what you are going through!

 

I would ask the student to come see me and explain/reach out and see what the issue is. Maybe he has some issues with Spanish and too embarrassed to admit it so tries to undermine the class. Or maybe he's just an immature jerk. But try finding out what the issue is. If that fails (he doesn't come or is still disrespectful), you can't kick him out, but you can definitely reflect in his grades. I write very explicitly in my syllabus that class participation includes attendance and docking for disruptive behavior. Don't be afraid to fail him if he is disruptive and not learning/doing the requirements. That's the point of the class. He's wasting his own money.

 

Do you know if students are assigned an adviser or counselor? I emailed a student's adviser and had them talk to the student. That helped.

 

Finally, I don't know if this is wise, but for the really difficult students...I embarrassed a guy in class once. Made some sarcastic joke at his expense and the rest of the class laughed. He was much well behaved after that. Many times they are trying to show their authority in class and if you take back the authority or show that the class actually isn't on his side, they subside.

 

Whatever you choose to do, very importantly..do NOT get emotional or show emotions (frustration, intimidation, etc). This is particularly true for young, female professors. I made that mistake and lost the rest of the class for a long time (until said sarcastic remark).

 

I'm sorry you have to deal with this!

[Mauxly]

Each class should have a syllabus that is pre-approved by the college and that clearly outlines attendance expectations and classroom behavior. Don't you have one of these?

If he's disregarding pre-set rules notify your supervisor and ask him/her how to proceed. There MUST be guidelines set up for this scenario.

Do not act on your own to resolve this. You very well may sabotage yourself even if you have the best intentions in mind if you accidently break a college guideline.

[muchacha_abril]

First of all, thank you for your responses. Lylipadgirl, thank you so much for your advice. It is hard not to show emotion but it's important for me to keep my cool. His participation grade is definitely getting affected but I can't fail him based solely on that. Of course, I have no sympathy for him so he won't be getting any extra points from me. Still, he did take this class before so he knows the material (maybe that's why he acts like a jerk) and is doing fine quizzes-wise.

 

Mauxly, yes, that's exactly what I'll be doing tomorrow: reminding students that their participation grade is affected by disrupting, not participating and leaving the classroom for no reason. I contacted the chair person and other colleagues, their response is always: there is nothing you can do, except being tough and asserting your authority in the classroom. It's hard. It's like I'm fighting the world each day. Gosh.

[mgirl]

I like the suggestion of the sarcastic remark. You need to engage the rest of the class in his discipline, so is there any way you can apply 'divide and rule'?

 

Maybe you could say something about how 'old' he will be when he finally passes this class?! Doesn't he have better things to do?

 

Could you focus on other students and completely ignore him? I would lay down some ground rules, i don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to ban him from the class (for that day), if he gets up in the middle of it. "Obviously, he doesn't want to learn"?!

[Snny]

You are the authority figure in the classroom, age is irrelevant. Its your own hangups that are making this problem worse.

This I agree.

 

Tell him to stay after class then sit his ass down while you stand over him in an authority position and tell him what will and will not be tolerated just like you would speak to a child. If the behavior persists then call him out on it in front of the entire class. At worse you will force a confrontation and then you will have grounds to boot him out of class.

This I don't agree. He's stirring trouble ON PURPOSE to get a reaction and to belittle a college professor in front of the class. Calling him out and giving him a reaction allows him to win in this situation. You simply fail him. His tuition money.

 

If the chair refuses to act upon this, it's time to take it to the president and board members. Get your students to write letters about this incident and how his behavior is affecting THEM from learning. This is not acceptable in a college classroom environment.

[muchacha_abril]

It is not that I'm "afraid" of him because he's older. I just feel it's absurd that I have to talk to a 30 year old as if he was a kid. I tried the "you seem like a reasonable person" approach but that didn't work. I've threatened him with marking him late if he continues to leave the classroom. (The other day he asked for a syllabus and when I said I didn't have any at hand, he left the classroom to get one from the Foreign Languages Department). I think I'm gonna end up crazy.

 

Thank you for your advice. It's true. I'm the authority figure but...what does that mean? I don't wanna feel anxiety before going to the classroom.

 

Thanks all for your help!

[Hurting85]

Is there anyway you can lock the door after you start class? Like, can it still be opened from the inside but locked from the outside? I had loads of professors who locked the door. If you were late, you were absent. If you left, that was that.

[muchacha_abril]

Unfortunately, the door does not close. In frustration, one of my students tried to close it putting a garbage can against it. People still came and went like nothing. I will give the speech tomorrow...whoever goes for more than 10 minutes will be marked late.

 

I did have those professors that closed the door and that was the end of it.

[lilypadgirl]

I wouldn't take it to the president and board members. Theoretically and ideally they should deal with cases like this. Reality is they will see you as an ineffective teacher and might terminate your contract.

 

The bad is there's not a lot of support for new professors. The good is we actually have a lot more flexibility and authority in how we want to handle our own classes than we realize. I would read up on the policies listed in the handbook and see what I can and cannot do.

 

I'm sure your colleagues have had their share of difficult students. How have they handled the situation? Maybe they can give you some tips on what works and what doesn't? For example, embarrassing a student/sarcastic joke was what was recommended to me by quite a few of my colleagues in the "it didn't come from me, but try this" way.

 

In your speech tomorrow, be calm and cool. Don't sound angry or attacking because that will backfire very quickly. Say off-handed, "Some of you may think it's funny or cool to leave the class randomly, but I'm sure most of us are more mature in realizing the value of getting a good education." Emphasize how important it is and why they need to learn Spanish. Don't threaten, but repeat your policies on disruptive behavior. Don't engage/confront the student directly.

 

If you ever decide to use the sarcastic joke, don't make it personal. Make the joke on his behavior - so the class knows the behavior is not cool/mature.

 

I hope this helps!

[abitbroken]

If this is a college class, there is nothing you can do about him leaving and coming and going. He doesn't have to sit there as its not high school. It just means that his grades won't be great if he doesn't pay attention. I might try ignoring him. But maybe there is a chance that other students are annoyed. If they are, maybe they will be willing to band together to put peer pressure on him to stop.

 

Do you have a participation grade that figures into the score? I would imagine that with Spanish class there would be conversation, etc. You can always mark him down in that department because its a subjective grade that figures in with the concrete grade of tests, assignments, etc

[karvala]

Yes, I did document everything and spoke to the chair person of my department. She told me that the administration doesn't allow me to ban him from the class. Why? Well, because he paid. Unfortunately, me and all the other students have to put up with his behavior. A couple other students have started behaving similarly (the herd mentality) and I'm exhausted.

 

Tomorrow, before class starts I'm gonna threaten the whole class (the whole class is not the problem, it's just this guy) again with marking them late if they keep getting up and leaving. This guy took this class already and failed it because he had too many absences. I spoke to his professor from last semester and she told me he was "a difficult person, but good at heart". Should I just play blind? Focus on those that want to learn? How can I disarm him?

 

It's evident that the management of the college are completely pathetic, so they should actually be your first target, but before you even confront them, you really need to get a grip. You're in charge, it's your classroom, you're not paid to tolerate bad behaviour, it's not fair on the other students that the bad behaviour should continue, and it's up to you to take charge of the situation. It doesn't matter what the management policy is, it doesn't matter that's it college. You need to assert yourself here in the same way that you would/should in any other situation.

 

Example: for the last couple of weeks my undergrads have been behaving in a somewhat inconsiderate manner in my lab. The other users of my lab, including members of academic staff, have tolerated them, ignored them and tried to smooth things over, with the end result that the bad behaviour continued. I resumed my work in the lab this week, and so first thing on Monday I got my undergrads together (and the other users who are clearly incapable of managing them) and laid down the law to them, to the extent that within ten minutes these college students were fighting back the tears. Since then, their behaviour has been impeccable and I expect it will remain that way, because they know I will jump on them at the first sign of trouble. None of them will lodge a complaint against me, and if they did it wouldn't get anywhere since they have no case. They know they were wrong, they know they were trying it on, they got burned and they accept it. The point is, it required nothing more than a meaningful demonstration of authority to cow them. There are two circumstances in which people will assert themselves against you and cause trouble: (1) if they think they're in the right; or (2) if they think they can win.

 

What would I do in your situation? Take the guy into my office, one on one, and let him know who's boss. Just the tone of my voice would be sufficient. If you can't manage that, and I realise not everyone can, then instead march him with complete authority into the principal's office, tell the principal in front of the student that you're no longer prepared to let this idiot disrupt your class and he is now excluded whether he has paid or not, and leave the principal in doubt of your displeasure as to his own weakness. In other words, assert yourself and take control. When you get back to your classroom, tell the class to shut up (and I mean that quite literally; they won't be expecting such hostility from you and the surprise will silence them and prime them for your message), explain that the idiot has been excluded and ask them if anyone else would like to join him. Pick on an individual and ask that individual the same question. If any smartass says yes, then do the same thing to them. If they remain silent, then your battle is won and you can get back to actually teaching them. They'll respect you more for showing your strength and not putting up with any nonsense.

[karvala]

If this is a college class, there is nothing you can do about him leaving and coming and going. He doesn't have to sit there as its not high school.

 

You've got to be kidding me. If someone walked into one my lectures late once, they got a comment. If they did it again, they got publicly humiliated with a telling off. If they tried to do it a third time, they would be excluded and would remain so until they had apologised to me (and if you think I'm joking, I'm not; I enforced this). I don't give a damn who has paid what fees; lectures are NOT public events and so long as I don't violate the rules of the university I have fully authority to exclude who the hell I want. If students want to be behave like naughty schoolchildren, that's exactly how they'll be treated. I haven't got time to waste playing stupid games with idiots who think lectures are a form of private entertainment. Same goes for people messing around with mobile phones in lectures, chatting persistently to their neighbours or doing anything else disruptive or disrespectful.

[mgirl]

This is gold! Love your attitude. I remember a University lecturer i once had. During one of our first lectures, a student either came in late, or was making noise, i can't remember which. Anyway, He said "YOU"! And pointed to the student. Well, that silenced everybody! I think everybody sort of looked up at the student, which would have been embarrassing. Then the lecturer something to the effect of "sit down and shut up, if anybody else makes any noise, they'll be asked to leave" and everybody just sat there and kind of shuddered. It worked, nobody ever played up in his lectures again. Everybody was in awe of him!! Loved his attitude.

[Snny]

I am saving this speech for a parent conference (minus the cursing).

[mgirl]

I am saving this speech for a parent conference (minus the cursing).

 

God, are the parents that bad Snny? I'm dreading it!!

[Snny]

mgirl: PM me. Rather not post them on this forum. Thanks for understanding.

[muchacha_abril]

Exactly! It's college and like you said, if they make the choice to behave like little children, they will be treated as such. I think the fact that I'm petite and a girl doesn't help. Unfortunately many men think that women in position of power are either powerless or incompetent. I can almost assume that if I was a man things would go down differently. I have an older student who is completely frustrated with the "immature, petty attitude" of some of my students (his words) and I agree with him completely.

 

And yes! Civility should be the norm, politeness should be the norm! Not this hostility, this apathy, this "I don't give a F" attitude. I'm sick and tired of people imposing their behaviors on other people like everyone is supposed to sit and take it. If this attitude continues, yes, I will tell him to leave the classroom (even if it is just for that day).

[lady00]

Wow. I'm shocked by the behavior of some students. In my college and grad school nothing like this ever happened in any of my courses nor did I hear about anything like this ever happening. We were allowed to come and go as we pleased but no one was ever disruptive about it. If I wanted to use the restroom, I left the room quietly and discreetly and closed the door very slowly behind me so it didn't make a loud bang. I am sorry you are going through this with this joker. I guess I am just so surprised because at my college and grad school, students behaved like adults in the classroom and took things very seriously...it was just how things were.

 

I agree with taking him into your office and giving him a good talking to.