i'm such a wreck right now. Help.Nonchalance fail.

[MakeItCount]

No, you're not ready to be her friend. You are still posting very long posts about how you feel about her, why is she doing this, why cant she do that. You haven't even given yourself proper NC yet. You can keep hitting your head against a brick wall, or you can just cut this girl off once and for all.

[Real Deal]

MIC is right - there never really has been NC - whether you or her have initiated. When she has, you have accepted. I mean what's the longest been 3, 4 maybe 5 days? Medical insurance, who has what picture, where your car is, the cable bill, who gets the red vase, or whatever lame reason it is this time. If I thought it would matter I would tell you exactly what needs to happen from here for you to have her eating out of your hand within 2-4 weeks. No games, no manipulation, just straight up man talk. However, my friend, I am afraid it will fall on deaf ears. Just lay low for a while and be 'off the grid' and we will see what happens.

[GreenPolicy]

MIC is right - there never really has been NC - whether you or her have initiated. When she has, you have accepted. I mean what's the longest been 3, 4 maybe 5 days? Medical insurance, who has what picture, where your car is, the cable bill, who gets the red vase, or whatever lame reason it is this time. If I thought it would matter I would tell you exactly what needs to happen from here for you to have her eating out of your hand within 2-4 weeks. No games, no manipulation, just straight up man talk. However, my friend, I am afraid it will fall on deaf ears. Just lay low for a while and be 'off the grid' and we will see what happens.

 

Real,

I've been NC for 5.5 months, the r/l itself ended 6 months ago. I did not beg, plead and grovel to get back with her, nor did I get hateful or spiteful. I walked away like a man with my dignity and self-respect intact. I feel like I've done a lot of things right in terms of moving on...but I've never been traumatized by the end of a relationship like this one. If you spend enough time in the dating scene, you'll come accross a woman or two that is selfish and recklessly toys with your feelings or in some way hurts or disappoints you, but this woman drove me to therapy, 12-step meetings, posting on relationship message boards and googling "commitment phobia" "borderline personality disorder" and "avoidant love attachment." I've never felt the need to seek out this much support before for the end of a relationship or getting dumped.

 

I was hanging out with some friends last weekend and I was spending a lot of time fiddling with my iphone instead of engaging in the discussion at the table. And of my friends, K, is a lovely girl (she's got a bf so nothing like that going on between us) that knows what happened with me, and she pulls me aside and she's like "I want to know how you're doing these days, and I just want to let you know that I'm really concerned...because I can tell that you're stuck and you're not moving on. I'm not around you on a day-to-day basis but I can tell. The looks on your face, your expressions, your demeanor, I can tell that you are just not there, you are not available. That is the vibe you are putting out. And while you're like this, you are closing yourself off to all sorts of beautiful things right in front of your face, and I'm not just talking about potential romantic relationships with other women. I'm talking about connecting with other people for friendship and all sorts of things in life that can enrich your experience. Your ex did this to you, but it is your choice to remain stuck in your grief. You're a great and lovely guy who has all sorts of things going for him, and all sorts of women want a guy like you, but they're not going to see it as long as you chose to remain stuck."

 

Thing is, I DO feel stuck in some ways. I've been searching for a logical and rational answer to the end of this relationship, and I finally came to the realization that there isn't one. I know some women "go along" with a r/l for awhile when they're not sure about a guy and hope that their feelings develop for him, and then end things when they don't develop those feelings. But I realize now that no sane woman or woman with integrity would ever let things get so serious, or so willingly commit to a vision of engagement/marriage if they were that ambivalent about a guy. My brain knows that the future that I wanted is not possible with this woman, and even in the unlikely event that she did come back around, building a relationship again founded on trust and respect would be a Herculean task. I shouldn't want her back. I've even done some casual dating and gotten laid a few times, but my heart just struggles with the fact that the r/l itself was a good one, despite how things ended. Aside from the day she chose to end things, I literally have nothing but good memories of this person. I only got the honeymoon, and sometimes I wish we had been together a little while longer and the r/l deteriorated so I would have some bad memories to go along with it.

 

What is acceptance and healing? I live in reality - I know she's not coming back and even if she did, it would be almost impossible to build something good again with her. I'm not delusional when it comes to envisioning reunion scenarios. So I thought this was acceptance, but the pain has only lessened somewhat. In the last couple months, I've started to feel like my old self more and more, I've slowly started to re-engage with my friends, but this pain is just not dissipating as fast as I would like it to. Whether she lined up a replacement or not before leaving, the fact of the matter is that by now I have almost certainly been replaced. The distinction is actually kind of irrelevant to me - how could you choose another person/dating scene over me and what we had together?

 

I guess what I'm asking is, how do I let my brain take control of the wheel and relegate my heart to the backseat of the car?

[Real Deal]

How? It's tough to say but I think that you may know the answer. What is it that is so great about her that other women do not have to offer? Likely nothing, but if you are closed off you can't and will not see this. Yes, I know it sucks but she is not the only one for you. Once you accept this and realize there is likely someone even BETTER for you, things will change. As I often tell everyone on here - make your life GREAT without a woman in it and you will be so much better suited for relationships it will make your head spin - not to mention, as a man is makes you super attractive to women when they know you are own your own and don't NEED them for your happiness. When you are the source of your own happiness you can give more to the relationship because there is nothing you NEED from her. Make sense?

[sfindependent]

MIC is right - there never really has been NC - whether you or her have initiated. When she has, you have accepted. I mean what's the longest been 3, 4 maybe 5 days? Medical insurance, who has what picture, where your car is, the cable bill, who gets the red vase, or whatever lame reason it is this time. If I thought it would matter I would tell you exactly what needs to happen from here for you to have her eating out of your hand within 2-4 weeks. No games, no manipulation, just straight up man talk. However, my friend, I am afraid it will fall on deaf ears. Just lay low for a while and be 'off the grid' and we will see what happens

 

i will have to lay low, Real. i really did push her away this time, i realize. Do you mean, I will be the deaf ears failing to listen to your advice or is it her that has deaf ears? can you elaborate more?

 

But in reality, i really don't have anything to talk to her about anyway, really. I know she's not happy. But I'm not gonna play her savior as much as i want to.

 

One of the things that irked me was that she wanted a "drink" when we met up (she asked one other time before then, i think). But I refuse to be just another drinking buddy to her. I personally have a lot of those kinda friends already. I can call people up on anyday of the week and would most likely have someone to have a drink with.

 

A guy friend of mine asked me "what's the difference if you being friends with me and being friends with her? we've never defined our friendship, we just sort of grew together and became solid buddies."

 

i replied "well, a) i've never slept with you, gross. B) we don't have any romantic feelings that were shared between us, again gross c) you and i never hurt each other in a way where our hearts were broken". d) we never had future plans of living together like partners....it's more complicated transitioning from exes to friends and having a good relationship. I'm not to say it would never happen but it takes more effort than just a regular friendship that for something like that to happen. it takes two people to be willing and wanting to have that.

 

I feel I have to defend myself a little bit with my actions of telling her my boundaries so early on. Through out the relationship, she insisted on "winging it" and hoping that our problems would naturally go away because of our "love". She didn't have any plans in life for herself and much more plans for us where and how we would end up. She never had plans in life, is what i mean. Literally. She just rolls around. "I love you, but if we really are meant to be it would work out somehow. why would we have to work on our relationship when we've only been dating 6mos/1year/2years?" mentality. I've asked her numerous times how we can improve our relationship if we have problems like sex, communication, etc and asked her to open up and neiter one were done on her part. I'm a naturally open person, that's what i have to do at work constantly and i realize the value of communication, openness and emotions. I'm not saying she never did anything to contribute to the improvement of our relationship, but it was half a$$ed, if any or very ambiguous and i would end up not appreciating her efforts. Of course I played my part but as far as i saw, we needed a lot more than just winging it and just "seeing how it goes". we needed a plan on what we expected from each other and i verbalized what i needed. i remember telling me when we were breaking up "i know its my fault that i only tell you what's wrong when it's too late".. If she can't handle giving that up, well then give me some more time to heal like then. I surround my self with people who can be open to me, and i can be open to them. it's easier when lines are drawn. and it's the complete opposite of how we approached our relationship then and i don't need a repeat of that regardless of the level of our relationship. I do not like ambiguity.

 

I know we're not together and my expectations shouldn't be as high as when we were together, but i really don't need another drinking partner. I don't need her in my life, as i'm slowly discovering. i want her to be part of it, oh god yes. But everyday... despite me moving on, i think about her. i've learned to compartmentalize her in the back of my mind saying "ok, i still love her, but if we're not together, it's ok" mentality though. I can go about my day just thinking about her, missing her. But the difference is i've learned to identify what's bad for me and what i want for my friends, my girlfriends and everything around that. i've avoided new/old friends because they are not good for me. If she's not going to be good for me, then i don't want to be around her. I want to be a positive influence to her and vice versa, much like all my other friends i love.

 

i am going to leave her alone. as much as i know it's going to be bad i want to tell her how much i value her, how much i do want to be part of her life, but if i'm just going to be another drinking buddy, then i don't want that role. But if she wants me to be part of her life and really acknowledge a solid friendship and be a positive influence to one another, then by all means, i'll give a really good try at it. there IS no trust. There IS nothing i can stand on right now other than the sincerity of her words.

[sfindependent]

as much as i seem like it here on ENA and despite my heart still holding on to certain feelings with the ex, i've been living a life like this.it's awesome, women are responding, people at work are responding, friends are responding all of them positively... I may only post the bad things on ENA but there's a LOT of positives going on for me. i don't need the ex. i don't need women. I just need, me. thanks for the brotherly love, Real.

[GreenPolicy]

The funny thing is, somebody who would break up with me in such a manner is obviously not the right person for me. She's not the only physically attractive female out there, and I think part of my problem is that I have kept her on a pedestal not held her accountable enough for the way she hurt me. If they don't value you, then why should you value them? Especially when you look back and realize that there was something not right with them for the end to play out the way it did.

[sfindependent]

The funny thing is, somebody who would break up with me in such a manner is obviously not the right person for me. She's not the only physically attractive female out there, and I think part of my problem is that I have kept her on a pedestal not held her accountable enough for the way she hurt me. If they don't value you, then why should you value them? Especially when you look back and realize that there was something not right with them for the end to play out the way it did.

 

i wrote something about the exact same thing about valuing someone actively. its a give and take relationship. sometimes people start taking other people for granted and it just starts to affect the entire dynamics of a relationship. Some people may never learn to appreciate what they have/had but others when they learn and their change is accepted by the other, would make a better relationship than ever.

 

the right person will learn to appreciate your Yang to their Ying. a friend of mine said she admired her BF's intelligence and is challenged to become better because of it, not compete with it.

 

There's so much more than simply saying that "loving" someone is great. it's the act of loving, appreciating, valuing and actively living in the moment of love and recognizing it's existence that makes love even more substantial.

[ClarenceRutherford]

The funny thing is, somebody who would break up with me in such a manner is obviously not the right person for me. She's not the only physically attractive female out there, and I think part of my problem is that I have kept her on a pedestal not held her accountable enough for the way she hurt me.

 

If they don't value you, then why should you value them? Especially when you look back and realize that there was something not right with them for the end to play out the way it did.

I think that's the memory of her you need to keep: her cowardly actions at the end.

[ferna3069]

i wrote something about the exact same thing about valuing someone actively. its a give and take relationship. sometimes people start taking other people for granted and it just starts to affect the entire dynamics of a relationship. Some people may never learn to appreciate what they have/had but others when they learn and their change is accepted by the other, would make a better relationship than ever.

 

the right person will learn to appreciate your Yang to their Ying. a friend of mine said she admired her BF's intelligence and is challenged to become better because of it, not compete with it.

 

There's so much more than simply saying that "loving" someone is great. it's the act of loving, appreciating, valuing and actively living in the moment of love and recognizing it's existence that makes love even more substantial.

 

i actualy believe this is true. an ex does not see what they have until its gone. like your ex my ex was mad to.you moved out i deleted my ex of face book so i can heal. she got so mad at me telling me its bs. she said i promised to be be her friend. they can turn to any one else but its not going to be you. the once caring person is not there for them. they try to get us jelous to keep us around until they find some one.

[sfindependent]

i actualy believe this is true. an ex does not see what they have until its gone. like your ex my ex was mad to.you moved out i deleted my ex of face book so i can heal. she got so mad at me telling me its bs. she said i promised to be be her friend. they can turn to any one else but its not going to be you. the once caring person is not there for them. they try to get us jelous to keep us around until they find some one.

 

yeah, that's part of why i wanted to make sure the last time i spoke with her that i made it clear about things that i knew she wouldn't be thinking about, that i obviously have spent the last few months contemplating on. she wanted to hang this weekend, but what for? to waste my time and fill sometime she can't fill?

 

even some of my exes here make sure they take time out of their busy lives to spend time with me (i'm going to have a drink with one tonight, actually), that's friendship.

 

I don't really know what she wants out of "talking". I don't know where she's coming from. longest NC that we've done is 3weeks i think or somewhere around that. Between the BU and today, i've made strides with getting to where i'm at. I'm not as hurt anymore, but i do agree with Real and MIC, that i'm not completely healed. I'm still writing crazy thoughts on here, getting bothered by her actions/lack of it. if i was really healed and didn't care, i wouldn't care what or who she does. but i do. i am still carrying some hope/love for her and it's only NC that will heal me. i know it sounds hypocritical but i do know the reality of what i should do. am i afraid of it? maybe. but that's why i stopped myself and had to ask... what was the point? what would I get out of it? am i doing me harm than good? what will happenif we hang out? would it work the same way i played in my head? would it throw me back to the hell i was in a few weeks ago?

 

i'm beginning to realize i'm never gonna get what i want from her. Not now. She's in a place where she doesnt want to get better, ignore the important things, do not value what's important, and prorcastinate. I just need to get in my head that it's not going to be the way i picture her to be. not right now.

 

NO. i would not subject myself to that again, no effing way. i've learned to keep myheart from hurting by knowing what i know now through the help of the forum, self reflection and therapy.

[GreenPolicy]

You have to go complete NC. If property needs to be exchanged or returned, so be it, but complete NC is the way to go. LC is not doing you a damn bit of good. It's taken a good solid 4-5 months of NC for my brain to finally subside with the obsessive fixating on my ex. I still think about her a lot, but what I think about is different.

[GreenPolicy]

I think that's the memory of her you need to keep: her cowardly actions at the end.

 

FloridaMan, you told me once that my story gave you echoes of your near fiancee from 20 years ago. How did that play out? How did she dump you? And how long did it take for you to feel normal again? I know you said that you still feel a sad melancholy whenever her memory surfaces, but when did you reach acceptance, contentment and at peace over what happened?

 

I feel like it's better for it to have played out this way where it wasn't really my fault, whereas I'd probably be hurting a lot more if she had dumped me because of something I did that hurt her, let her down, made her feel betrayed or that she couldn't rely or count on me, and felt like she had to dump me. Then I'd be hurting over feeling that I had somehow "blown it." Sometimes hearing stories of other people's similar experiences helps me.

[sfindependent]

I feel like it's better for it to have played out this way where it wasn't really my fault, whereas I'd probably be hurting a lot more if she had dumped me because of something I did that hurt her, let her down, made her feel betrayed or that she couldn't rely or count on me, and felt like she had to dump me. Then I'd be hurting over feeling that I had somehow "blown it." Sometimes hearing stories of other people's similar experiences helps me.

 

OMG yes. I agree with this 80%. I mean, i wasn't perfect in the relationship either but I have to say that if i cheated, was a complete douche, was something of completely negative influence to her, then I would definitely be in a lot more pain thinking the same thing. I tried my best to communicate with her and even up to now... nothing. no desire to communicate deeper feelings. not deeper feelings towards each other, but deeper connections.

 

I still want that, but as i said above, i don't think i'll ever have that with her, not because she doesn't want that with me, but she can't do that with anyone at all.

[ClarenceRutherford]

FloridaMan, you told me once that my story gave you echoes of your near fiancee from 20 years ago.

How did that play out?

It all started to go downhill after we went out of state to meet my family and go camping for a week's vacation.

Damn. What a mistake to take a girl on a trip like that where you're together so long.....

 

She had also recently turned 30 (I was 26 and this was my first real adult relationship), so I think that changed her and she became very picky.

There wasn't anything she couldn't find wrong with me.

 

But then earlier, she had brought up that we "might get engaged" and how "she'd be willing to move if my career took me out of that town..."

So a a long trip seemed appropriate at that stage.

How did she dump you?

Over dinner. She had a big frown on her face all during that date.

And how long did it take for you to feel normal again?

I jumped back into dating almost immediately. Maybe too soon.

Her best friend told me that my returning to dating so soon "hurt her" bec. it showed that "she didn't mean that much to me..."

Maybe/maybe not. I would have taken her back in a split second if offered.

 

Cannot recall when I started to feel much better, but I'd say it took several months, maybe at least 6 mos.

One of her friends told me I didn't seem to smile much anymore.

 

I knew nothing about no-contact or non-chalance....

 

Kept running into her friends or her. One of them expressed surprise that we weren't together anymore. I diplomatically told him it wasn't my choice, but still he kept saying how it was such a shame as "we were so right for each other....." I agreed with him but reminded him...

 

As I figured I needed to get out of that small town, Wichita Falls, and get away from the memories of her, someone suggested going to grad school to change my career.

So within 6 mos. I moved out of state....

I know you said that you still feel a sad melancholy whenever her memory surfaces, but when did you reach acceptance, contentment and at peace over what happened?

Probably several years.

I dated in my late 20s but was never very successful at it, so that relationship failure was always heavy on my mind.

Meeting my future wife -- and falling in love with her -- at 30 really helped me heal.

 

Even dating that future wife, if I ever heard my EX's name - and it was a common name so not the same person - something tugged at my heart...

 

In Jan., all those feelings of this EX and the breakup (which occurred in 1-9-8-8 came back to me. Methinks it had much to do with the state of my marriage, which I detailed in my thread...

My long-distance marriage

I feel like it's better for it to have played out this way where it wasn't really my fault, whereas I'd probably be hurting a lot more if she had dumped me because of something I did that hurt her, let her down, made her feel betrayed or that she couldn't rely or count on me, and felt like she had to dump me.

Then I'd be hurting over feeling that I had somehow "blown it."

 

Sometimes hearing stories of other people's similar experiences helps me.

Like in your case, our breakup was all on my EX.

 

I did nothing to make her distrust me, break her confidence, cheat on her or say something that really hurt her.

 

Of course, I didn't always say the right things (I'm human) but nothing that would justify a breakup.

Like the women I dated through most of my 20s, I tried to treat them well, didn't press them for sex, etc (until I got closer to 30...)

 

Still, it was her right to end it, as it wasn't working for her and she didn't see a future with me.

 

When she started expressing some of her doubts, I should have been non-chalant and just walked away like I could care less....

[sfindependent]

wow, FL, that's some history of heartache. Despite me being as young as I am, have had my fair share of hearaches, heartbreaks and disappointments.

 

sucks doesn't it? but we all seem to be able to move on at some point, some takes longer than others, some circumstantial. But your story amongst others helps people like us who are going through heartache realize that there's light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I'm still a long way from getting out of this gaddamn tunnel. I hate it. maybe sooner than later i will.

[The_411]

dude, i have no idea what you're talking about.

my girl is fresh. new, and so not hovering.

you should maybe read more of a thread before you start throwing out 411.

*shakes head*

 

Ahh confusion, I was referring to SFindepdent by calling him anthony was not referring to you.

[sfindependent]

lol no worries. yeah, i don't know, she's no BPD. I can tell u that right now. At most she has generalized anxiety, maybe.

 

She's not as bad as she sounds, though. I think she's just mainly unhappy with her life and her anxiety gets the best of her. But you might be slightly right, it's not gonna get better with her, at least right now, no. I don't know if she's dealing with her problems directly since she doesn't really tell me much about what's going on with her life but knowing her, she's not really going to be doing much to improve it. i'd be happy if she was doing something productive with her life, but i highly doubt it.

 

i am compelled to really want to ask her "is this going to get better?" and "are we gonna get better?" "do you want us to get better with each other?" and "i want more than just a drinking buddy with you, i want a genuine open, honest relationship between the two of us" in reference to our relationship/friendship/situation.

 

but i know people will frown upon me if i said that; it's not nonchalant, it's a sign i'm still hung up on her, it's a sign of weakness, it's not gonna promote my healing, and it's just giving her the power back completely. her most likely response will be "dunno". she doesn't care enough to get up and stand up for anything, so i wouldn't either.

no sense putting effort into something that i'm just doing by myself. she' the least likely person in this world that understands em anyway.

 

i'll just shut up and do my own thing.

 

i'm good over all people. just a little confused and frustrated about everything. She's still cold with her responses...and i'm trying to be warm from mine... she's not special so she won't get special treatment.

 

gaddamnit this is a step back. nope... gonna push forward.

 

this is the wrong way of thinking and i'm going to get out of this funk. I've got better things to do. it's just a wax and wane. I'm going to maintain my course of healing (trust me, i've had good healing, but not completely, but i'm getting here. i know NC. i'm just so damn afraid of it. I don't know why, but i am.

 

thanks for reading.

[MakeItCount]

i'm good over all people. just a little confused and frustrated about everything. She's still cold with her responses...and i'm trying to be warm from mine... she's not special so she won't get special treatment.

 

 

Why are you still talking to her?!

[sfindependent]

no i didn't. i was referring to the old convos

 

thanks for the concern MIC... wasn't talking with her at all. I'm planning on contacting her 1st week of may though. I know she's going out of town to Tennessee for a wedding (i wanted to go so bad too, i wanted to go to Dollywood, hahah) but things didn't work out.

 

anyway, i'm going to ask her to leave the keys to the garage so while she's out of town, i'll have free reign over working on my car and then i'll be gone from her! yay! nothing more. i guess it's a good time for me to be able to work on my car without having worry about seeing her or getting into anything with her. i can get my car outta there in 2 days.

 

I know you're trying to help me from getting hurt, and i realize that she still can hurt me. It's like i have 2 sides to me. one who's pulling away and doing well with life, the other wants to remain there and be stuck and insist on dwelling on these feelings. i'm working on both.

[MakeItCount]

Ohh okay. *puts down the bat*. Just checking

[sfindependent]

i have to admit tho, i am unhealthily going back to 50/50 about everything. a part of me wants her back. its not helping that shes throwing the whole "we can be friends" thing and ive been learning a lot about myself and reflecting on my actions, readin learning and overall improving myself and making myself more attractive. but the other one knows better. she can be doing ANYTHING much more ANYONE. she can hurt me. shes not good for me and totally devalued me.

 

ugh. i hate knowing im probably the only one that gives a rats behind between the two of us and it really blows. actions speak louder than words and right now, shes showin nuddin. im moving on MIC. i know im doin the right thing for me. but am i doing the right thing for us?

 

oan: i got two books about alcoholism. i realize i could have a lot more in life if i cut my drinking down. by a lot.

[MakeItCount]

There is no "us". This girl is not healthy for you in her current state of maturity. Only one that matters is you. Do you, that's all.

[sfindependent]

exactly. well, the "us" im referring to isnt the "us" we're together in love "us". im talking about basic human connection, maybe a bit more of that given our history. u had that with your ex... you have that still dont u? us meaning two people who shared a connection between each other. i spent two years woth her a little short of marrying her and almost havong a child. there is an us and what comes after that? nothing? isnt that a disservice to human relationships? ive seen hundreds of old couples stick together... even after traumatizing heartaches. idont know. maye she would never see this side of me or appreciate it. but par of me wants to reach out and say what i really want from her... a deeper connection than what we previously had. but then again... i can use a world with one less heartache.

[ferna3069]

man your just like every person. its hard to let go i know. times that you feel like you let go. but then your heart takes you to your ex. its hard to stop. i know whwere you stand. im not over my ex i know that. im not as far as you are. but when you love some one for so long and make future planes its hard to let go no matter how much time passed. i also made plans with my ex. about marriage kids everything. she even had an engament ring. which her whole family got to see. its hard to let go. even at times when you feel you moved on