What is the point of marriage?

[Circe]

So ... what it is for? Financial protection for the female, nothing more, nothing less. Sorry.

 

When this happens, it's because the female has (through the mutual agreement of both parties to the marriage) given up the opportunity to persue financially rewarding employment in order to take on the burdens and work of looking after a home and children or both. Quite frankly, however taxing a paying job may be, at least it ends at the end of the day. Being someone who looks after the home and kids often does not end at all.

 

But that's not the point. The couple have by mutual agreement decided to pursue this arrangement for their mutual benefit. So if they do split up 20 years on of course the woman will be financially screwed without protection. So the laws which require men to remedy that impose consequences on them for breaching their commitment upon a divorce.

 

What if it was "all the woman's fault" or at least partly her fault that the divorce occurred in the first place? Well the social ramifications of divorce (and there are plenty.. look on this site you will see people who don't want to date divorced persons.. in fact.. a guy I once knew.. before he said this to me.. told me when I got engaged that if I ever got divorced I'd be "worthless") .. and the emotional ramifications of splitting up something you have treated as your family - something that you have treated as the accumulation of your lifes work etc .. that hurts both parties.

 

The ramifications of divorce are tremendous - and they highlight how significant and deep and extreme the commitment is in the first place.

 

That's my take on it anyway.

[FreakAndUnique]

It's about levels of commitment though. I used to think i didn't want to get married because I didn't see "the point" either. But then I met someone I wanted to commit to in a "forever" kind of way - and I wanted my life to be bound with his - and marriage provides both the social and legal framework to achieve that.

 

This has made me think actually .. as well as the public declaration, isn't there something about the ring stuff? Doesn't this say to others, a polite way of saying, "no chance mate"? lol

[Circe]

Don't let the bitter couples out their spoil your idea of love! You're right, marriage, in it's most basic sense, really doesn't say anything about love at all. Whether we like it or not, "marriage" in the united states is a legal contract.

 

I disagree with this to the following extent: I think commitment is the highest expression and form of love there is. I think marriage is the embodiment of commitment (at least that's what it should be).

 

As an aside - I think its deplorable that you dont have the right to marry and I'm convinced it's just a matter of time.

[FreakAndUnique]

And again I say, for every woman who is married, a MAN proposed to HER. To my mind, that says that HE wanted marriage too. Or am I missing something here?? Please explain.

 

It is social convention for a male to ask a female. Many women put marriage as a clear pathway of a continuing relationship. Everyone knows that ...

[Circe]

This has made me think actually .. as well as the public declaration, isn't there something about the ring stuff? Doesn't this say to others, a polite way of saying, "no chance mate"? lol

 

Perhaps, yes. To me the ring is a symbol of my commitment. It's purpose is to act as a reminder to me. I have to say I don't think the ring functions in practice as something that keeps other people away. It seems to function as a sleeze magnet!

[Capricorn3]

I guess I just have a very hard time believing that all men who have proposed to a woman only did it to "please her" - especially considering what a huge commitment marriage is. Surely they can't all be that dense? Or maybe I'm just very dense, lol.

[FreakAndUnique]

When this happens, it's because the female has (through the mutual agreement of both parties to the marriage) given up the opportunity to persue financially rewarding employment in order to take on the burdens and work of looking after a home and children or both.

 

I know that this isn't a perfect world and all that, but I don't believe it is necessary these days for a woman to give up working life once she wants children.

[FreakAndUnique]

I guess I just have a very hard time believing that all men who have proposed to a woman only did it to "please her" - especially considering what a huge commitment marriage is. Surely they can't all be that dense? Or maybe I'm just very dense, lol.

 

Of course not lol. I am saying that many men are led by the testes. Of course there are men with religious backgrounds, and others with strong family ties who see it as a very important institution, for stability and all that stuff.

 

I am just a hippy.

[FreakAndUnique]

I guess I just have a very hard time believing that all men who have proposed to a woman only did it to "please her" - especially considering what a huge commitment marriage is. Surely they can't all be that dense? Or maybe I'm just very dense, lol.

 

Of course not lol. I am saying that many men are led by the testes. Of course there are men with religious backgrounds, and others with strong family ties who see it as a very important institution, for stability and all that stuff.

 

I am just a hippy.

[kylee]

Marraige wasn't first instituted for financial security at all, it was made as way to become one with a partner you loved. I think that although things have changed a little people don't take marraiges as lightly as they do rellationships. People are more likely to leave, more likely to cheat, more likely to make a mess of things because they haven't put their whole heart into it. You don't need to get married to express this wholehearted devotion but it deffinitely shows something when someone is willing to risk everything to come together in marraige. Men are willing to risk losing money, both are sacrificing their easy path to singlehood. Marraige is not for everyone but it does have a purpose, otherwise as stated above.. why would it occur

[Cognitive_Canine]

Honestly, not only does it give you certain rights (to hospital visits, say of medical treatment, and recognition as a couple) but it's just another step people can take in order to show their love and commitment to each other.

[Cognitive_Canine]

Marraige wasn't first instituted for financial security at all, it was made as way to become one with a partner you loved. I think that although things have changed a little people don't take marraiges as lightly as they do rellationships. People are more likely to leave, more likely to cheat, more likely to make a mess of things because they haven't put their whole heart into it. You don't need to get married to express this wholehearted devotion but it deffinitely shows something when someone is willing to risk everything to come together in marraige. Men are willing to risk losing money, both are sacrificing their easy path to singlehood. Marraige is not for everyone but it does have a purpose, otherwise as stated above.. why would it occur

 

Actually, until the late 1400's, only the rich got married and most of them didn't have much of a say in whom they married.

 

Marriage for love didn't become popular in Europe until weavers started doing it in eastern France and Switzerland. They didn't own anything and therefore had nothing to lose. Even then marriage through priests weren't popular until a century later because priests were expensive and no one really cared if they were "officially" married until the spread of venereal disease caused the churches to emphasis getting married and waiting to have sex until married.

[Circe]

I know that this isn't a perfect world and all that, but I don't believe it is necessary these days for a woman to give up working life once she wants children.

 

Who said it was "necessary"? What I said was that the couple mutually agreed that this was the best arrangement for them. For financial and other reasons - "other" being some people value a perfectly kept home, home cooked meals and children who are raised full time by their parent in their younger years - and that's a preference for them to agree upon.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Well, don't get married. Nobody can force you to. I'm sure in a few decades if not sooner, the average female can make as much if not more than the average male. Let's see if then you stop bashing women for wanting marriage.

[itsallgrand]

Sorry, I don't know.

 

My first thing that I wouldn't need or require the permission of the state to love someone. That should be a given.

 

And "commitment" - well, I think all relationships are based on "commitment" - but lets be honest, there are different kinds of commitment aren't there. Emotional and ... financial! Now we are getting somewhere.

 

The legal "commitment" is worthless. It can be broken for no reason whatsoever.

 

So ... what it is for? Financial protection for the female, nothing more, nothing less. Sorry.

 

I haven't read the entire thread. Only your opening and bits.

 

I found it a bit shocking. And this is from a female who has no secret wishes to get married. lol. It wouldn't be the end of the world to me if I didn't get married. Which I haven't, but doesn't mean I wouldn't and doesn't mean I don't see why some people may want to (including me, it's a valid option).

 

I've been called more than once a 'hippy' type. lol. I don't think that has anything to do with marriage-mindedness at all (or lack of it).

 

It depends what marriage means to you. But to disqualify it completely, based on an idea that it is only for females to reap financial protection? That seems not only old-school sexism to me, but downright silly.

 

It sounds like you are pissed off and/or afraid of anyone possibly wanting marriage. But why. ?

 

I have to tell you as well - as a single and not terribly young woman - that I've had more MEN in my life wanting marriage and valuing that, than my own experience with desiring it. So why would that be? Why would that be; that I have actually chosen to remove myself from otherwise perfectly good relationships bc the man wanted marriage more than I did, and sooner?

[sweetpea03]

I think marriage is the best way to show your commitment/love and I think commitment is the highest expression/form of love there is. Marriage is the embodiment of commitment (or at least that's what it should be). A wedding ring is a reminder of the commitment you made to your spouse.

 

I have always wanted to get married. I want to get married not because I want "financial security", I can make my own money, but because I want to show my boyfriend just how much I love him and wish to spend the rest of my life with him.

[Blue Spiral]

I've personally never seen the point of marriage. But, from my outside-looking-in viewpoint, here are what I believe to be the perceived benefits of it:

 

1. Establishing that you value tradition (at least to some degree). By getting married, one is being culturally rewarded for engaging in arguably the biggest human tradition there is. You get a crowd that shows up for the event, gifts, and other forms of attention. Getting married is the traditional way of formally expressing love...there's probably some universe where wearing a turtle on your head is the traditional way of announcing your love for someone, and it's probably just as commonplace and fiercely-defended as the concept of marriage.

 

2. Social ammunition, for lack of a better term. Most people equate "getting married" with "moving forward in life" or some other type of accomplishment. Even if a couple is nowhere near ready to get married, most people will still praise the idea of of it, as it's blithely assumed to be a sign that they've "grown up." Life is competitive, and getting married is a major way to win, at least temporarily. I believe this is especially true for women, as they wage social wars with each other, and getting married or pregnant is like dropping an atomic bomb. It's also a way to avoid awkward formalities--he's no longer your boyfriend or significant other or some other mumbled term, he's simply your husband.

 

3. The handcuff scenario. Again, I've found this to be more true for women than men. Some women view marriage as a preemptive way to defend themselves. "If he ever cheats on me, this guarantees he'll pay for it!" This is one situation where words like "stability" are often used, but the only thing that's stable is the handcuffed hand-holding. If you want to break away, it's going to hurt, which is just the way they wanted it. I think this is far more doom-and-gloom than something like a prenup.

 

4. Financial/legal benefits. Pretty self-explanatory, really. But I view it as doubling down. You're doubling your gains, but you're also doubling your potential losses. I'd rather stay where I am, not risk anything, and be happy with what I already have.

[FreakAndUnique]

3. The handcuff scenario. Again, I've found this to be more true for women than men. Some women view marriage as a preemptive way to defend themselves. "If he ever cheats on me, this guarantees he'll pay for it!" This is one situation where words like "stability" are often used, but the only thing that's stable is the handcuffed hand-holding. If you want to break away, it's going to hurt, which is just the way they wanted it. I think this is far more doom-and-gloom than something like a prenup.

 

I think this is totally true. I think when marriage is talked about as "commitment" there is a FINANCIAL commitment, especially if children are involved.

 

Actually I am surprised that children haven't been mentioned that much.

 

In fact since marriage is a legal and religious institution, it is easier to see. It is a way to guarantee that children are protected and provided for. Without marriage, this becomes more difficult, and children become a burden to the state and society as a whole.

[Batya33]

Is it something to do with a public declaration? I could see that.

 

Not really in my case- only our immediate families and one or two friends were there - it was far more about the spirituality and taking vows in the context of an institution we both believe in tremendously. At the time I was focused on the spirituality, the love, caring, magic and rightness -but in hindsight and in the broader context that is what it meant, in part.

[Batya33]

For me, no for one -we wanted and had only about 8 people there. I did not want gifts and was surprised that many people sent us gifts (who weren't invited). The second -yes it's much easier to be married in my community/larger world. Yes there are silly assumptions that it means you are grown up/more responsible. Not a factor in why I got married. And I don't treat my women friends like you describe -that's pathetic and disgusting.

 

No handcuff feelings either -I always trusted him when we were dating and the marital commitment didn't change that.

[Cognitive_Canine]

You are totally disregarding the benefit that gay couples find in marriage.

[Sparkly Eyes]

One thing I noticed is that most men who complain about marriage are simply commitment phobes. And they come up with all these reasons (like I lose money although I make 35k a year) as to why they don't wanna get married and that they find that they don't see marriage necessary for commitment. Reality? They don't wanna think about a "forever" type of commitment and they're not really sure if they want to stay with their girl really long term.

[Blue Spiral]

Actually I am surprised that children haven't been mentioned that much.

 

I think that marriage is to children as law is to behavior. Artificial constructs that ensure we behave ethically (whether we want to or not) by making it so that we'll be punished if we don't. Child-support laws perform that function in modern times, though they're far from perfect.

 

But I'm a "commitment-phobe," apparently, so take it with a grain of salt...!

[Sparkly Eyes]

I think that marriage is to children as law is to behavior. Artificial constructs that ensure we behave ethically (whether we want to or not) by making it so that we'll be punished if we don't. Child-support laws perform that function in modern times, though they're far from perfect.

 

But I'm a "commitment-phobe," apparently, so take it with a grain of salt...!

 

My post was not directed at you although you mentioned before yourself that you don't like monogomy and settling with someone if I'm not mistaken. And as I've said before, I never thought seriously about marriage either before myself. But I just can't understand why someone would be so against it and be afraid of losing the money he never had and never will have. And if one is really afraid of losing money (which can also happen in a relationship), he should go for a girl who makes good money, there are quite a lot of them out there in this day and age. Again, that was my observation. Lots of excuses while the reality is just something else.

[FreakAndUnique]

Not really in my case- only our immediate families and one or two friends were there - it was far more about the spirituality and taking vows in the context of an institution we both believe in tremendously. At the time I was focused on the spirituality, the love, caring, magic and rightness -but in hindsight and in the broader context that is what it meant, in part.

 

Gotcha. Especially since I am a hippy, I understand.