What is the point of marriage?

[FreakAndUnique]

Not really in my case- only our immediate families and one or two friends were there - it was far more about the spirituality and taking vows in the context of an institution we both believe in tremendously. At the time I was focused on the spirituality, the love, caring, magic and rightness -but in hindsight and in the broader context that is what it meant, in part.

 

Gotcha. Especially since I am a hippy, I understand.

[FreakAndUnique]

One thing I noticed is that most men who complain about marriage are simply commitment phobes.

 

It simply isn't true. There are many people who are devoted to each other and not married. And also gay people have not had marriage rights for thousands of years and it hasn't stopped them from being together.

 

It's shaming language I'm afraid.

[Cognitive_Canine]

It simply isn't true. There are many people who are devoted to each other and not married. And also gay people have not had marriage rights for thousands of years and it hasn't stopped them from being together.

It's shaming language I'm afraid.

 

And they really WANT marriage rights even though they can't conceive children and there isn't a man/woman dynamic.

[Sparkly Eyes]

It simply isn't true. There are many people who are devoted to each other and not married. And also gay people have not had marriage rights for thousands of years and it hasn't stopped them from being together.

 

It's shaming language I'm afraid.

 

That's totally fine if they both agree on it, more power to them. My point was more directed at couples where only the guy comes up with all the excused for which he doesn't wanna marry his girl. If he is a millionaire and can't get a prenup (Im pretty sure most people can) or marrying a very poor woman, I can understand. But none of those are usually the case.

 

And hello? Gay people have been trying to get this right for years.

 

And they really WANT marriage rights even though they can't conceive children and there isn't a man/woman dynamic.

 

Yep.

[FreakAndUnique]

That's totally fine if they both agree on it, more power to them. My point was more directed at couples where only the guy comes up with all the excused for which he doesn't wanna marry his girl. If he is a millionaire and can't get a prenup (Im pretty sure most people can) or marrying a very poor woman, I can understand. But none of those are usually the case.

 

So you basically agree with the women that nag for marriage then?

 

The problem is that one cannot assume the inherent goodness of an institution. Otherwise it is just shaming nonsense!

[FreakAndUnique]

And hello? Gay people have been trying to get this right for years.

 

And some don't care!

[Cognitive_Canine]

And some don't care!

 

But most do. Just as some people (women and men) don't care for marriage but most do.

[Blue Spiral]

Lots of excuses while the reality is just something else.

 

I completely disagree--I know countless men that have been financially devastated by divorce, and would have been far better-off remaining single. I'm sure there are many women like that, as well. I'm not aware of any reality where worrying about money when getting married is a bad idea.

[Sparkly Eyes]

So you basically agree with the women that nag for marriage then?

 

The problem is that one cannot assume the inherent goodness of an institution. Otherwise it is just shaming nonsense!

 

I'd never nag for marriage, I'd leave a guy who was very hesitant about marrying me and didn't have sound reasons, plain and simple. If a guy thinks I'm kind of a person to screw him financially after a divorce, I won't wanna spend my next month with him, let alone the rest of my life!

[FreakAndUnique]

I'd never nag for marriage, I'd leave a guy who was very hesitant about marrying me and didn't have sound reasons, plain and simple.

 

So emotional blackmail is somehow better than nagging? You are not exactly convincing me that I am wrong here.

[Sparkly Eyes]

So emotional blackmail is somehow better than nagging? You are not exactly convincing me that I am wrong here.

 

Emotional blackmail?! If I'm not compatible with a guy and want something he doesn't, why should I stay with him? If he doesn't want to get married and I do, why should I be the one who overlook her want? It's better if we both just move on to someone who thinks the same as us.

[FreakAndUnique]

Emotional blackmail?! If I'm not compatible with a guy and want something he doesn't, why should I stay with him? If he doesn't want to get married and I do, why should I be the one who overlook her want? It's better if we both just move on to someone who thinks the same as us.

 

And do you bring this up at the start of the relationship?

[Cognitive_Canine]

FreakAndUnique, would you say that you have had bad experiences with women?

 

The way you talk about women and marriage makes us all sound like we're treacherous feral cat/leech people who'll sink our claws into men in order to get money. 0.0;

[Cognitive_Canine]

And do you bring this up at the start of the relationship?

 

I'd bring it up when you start talking about future goals like homes and children. You can't exactly bust that kind of stuff out on the first date. But, after a month of dating or so it's nice to know that you both eventually want the same things.

 

It'd be unfair for a person to get married even though they didn't want to and it'd be unfair to never marry your partner even though they greatly want it. Same with kids, I feel.

[Sparkly Eyes]

And do you bring this up at the start of the relationship?

 

Never had to bring it up before and never really thought about marriage with any of the bfs I had. But the talk about the concept of marriage was brought up and they didn't have a problem with it. I imagine it's something that is talked about naturally in any relationship as they progress. Why do you ask?!

[mamajenkoz]

Well, I find myself asking the same question... I was married for 9 years, my divorce is final in January of next year...I got married at 18 bc I was pregnant and my mom said to...He was my first love so I figured it would just work out...hah. RIGHT! So, in a 9 year period, I ended up having more sex partners than when I wasn't married (as my ex was my second)... that marriage was a joke. However, I do have 2 beautiful boys from it so I don't regret that part. Part of me thinks that marriage can be a good thing, if all things are done correctly..assuming both parties have had enough experience and feel the need to root, and I can see where it would be beneficial...there are financial reasons (ie-tax credits) but also there are some legal reasons too. Sometimes, in medical emergencies, if you don't have a direct tie to the person (marriage, blood), decisions can get iffy I think. Also, I can see where a legal marriage, is just a bigger step to say "I choose you, and I want the state/world/whoever the hell else to know about it." However you can undo it by getting a divorce...which is costly, and can be highly dramatic... so yeah. Marriage can be pointless under the wrong conditions. So since my divorce, I say I am not going to ever get married again, because of the same reasons you stated. Who needs a ring?? lol.

[FreakAndUnique]

Never had to bring it up before and never really thought about marriage with any of the bfs I had. But the talk about the concept of marriage was brought up and they didn't have a problem with it. I imagine it's something that is talked about naturally in any relationship as they progress. Why do you ask?!

 

Well ... lets say you are with a guy for a year and then you say "its marriage or bust". I think that would count as emotional blackmail.

 

But it doesn't really matter on your case. If you were with a freak like me you would know soon enough.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Well ... lets say you are with a guy for a year and then you say "its marriage or bust". I think that would count as emotional blackmail.

 

But it doesn't really matter on your case. If you were with a freak like me you would know soon enough.

 

No I would never say that. I want someone who want to marry me. If he doesn't want to, then I just leave. I wouldn't say yes to a forced proposal.

[greywolf]

If marriage was just to protect the woman and give her financial security, then you wouldn't find gay people wanting to get married.

[FreakAndUnique]

No I would never say that. I want someone who want to marry me. If he doesn't want to, then I just leave.

 

So that the institution is more important than the person? Is it THAT important? I guess it is for you.

 

It just sounds very harsh.

[Cognitive_Canine]

So that the institution is more important than the person? Is it THAT important? I guess it is for you.

 

It just sounds very harsh.

 

You could make the argument "is your stance against marriage that important than your feelings for me?" and around and around you go.

[FreakAndUnique]

If marriage was just to protect the woman and give her financial security, then you wouldn't find gay people wanting to get married.

 

Good point. My personal opinion is that I don't see why they want marriage, since the actual existence of homosexuality undermines the old principle that sex and procreation must be welded together under the authority of the state.

 

But if that is what they want, then that is up to them!

[Sparkly Eyes]

You could make the argument "is your stance against marriage that important than your feelings for me?" and around and around you go.

 

Yeah, his argument doesn't make much sense. A person consists of his physical body , his thoughts and beliefs etc...If I don't like someone's beliefs and don't find those compatible with my own beliefs, that could mean I don't like the "person" or don't find the person compatible with me.

[FreakAndUnique]

Yeah, his argument doesn't make much sense. A person consists of his physical body , his thoughts and beliefs etc...If I don't like someone's beliefs and don't find those compatible with my own beliefs, that could mean I don't like the "person" or don't find the person compatible with me.

 

It doesn't hold. If we were talking about sex rather than marriage, then you can easily see it as pressure, not a rational argument.

[Sparkly Eyes]

It doesn't hold. If we were talking about sex rather than marriage, then you can easily see it as pressure, not a rational argument.

 

Not really. Sex is the same. Why should two people with different sex drives stay with each other? I would DEFINITELY leave a guy who had a much lower or much higher drive than me, morose than I would leave if he didn't want to marry me.