Passive aggressiveness

[Applewhite]

LMAO! Maybe you can hand him a razor at the end of the discussion?

 

Why? To see a big shiny behind instead?

 

I told him if he gets bread we can have pbj's as snacks (I am not making dinner). Then after we get back from kayaking if he still wants to eat, he can have leftovers from the day of the incident.

[karvala]

LOL.

 

Perhaps you should make him some humble pie to eat.

[penelope13]

One thing I have learned: what is obvious for me, doesn't have to be obvious for someone else. And it has nothing to do with intelligence, maturity, or age but simply with people being different.

 

I can see that you are angry as hell. And you are totally entitled to it.

 

However it's a bit difficult to ask someone to refrain from being passive-aggressive, being childish, petty, and simply mean if you are using exactly those means of expressing yourself in return.

 

It doesn't matter that he started this behavior first, if you want him to stop it, you have to show him a better way of dealing with a problematic situation.

 

I seriously doubt that your bf planned on humiliating you in front of his family, it just happened. He probably didn't even think before it popped out of his mouth, thus I doubt there was any kind of premeditation on his part.

 

However you are planning on retaliating, on making him feel bad because he has hurt you, thus you are consciously choosing to hurt him.

 

You are also very resentful because there are many things that you are upset with, but have never brought to his attention. Also in this situation he might be completely oblivious to your feelings on these things. Although he is an adult, and maybe could guess that you do not like to have to deal with the dogcrap, in a relationship between 2 adults it's your responsibility to make sure that you communicate all your feelings, especially the negative ones to the other person and not to expect them to be mind readers.

 

Do not believe for a second that I am letting off your bf off the hook, but he is not the one posting here asking for help.

 

There is also no need for you to cook for him or to spend time with a fun activity if you do not feel like it, but let him know in advance why you are choosing not to do those things. Then this will be an opening for a discussion or an incentive for him to overthink his behavior, but simply not doing these things and wallowing in your anger and resentment will not help you to find a resolution that will be beneficial to you.

 

I would simply tell him that you are not in the mood to go kayaking because you are upset about what transpired at the last family gathering. You would really appreciate it if you could talk about it. Then state why you were upset and why you are feeling hurt. Then wait for his initial response. Really try to listen to what he has to say, rather than to project your negative thoughts onto what you think he will say/ is saying.

 

You will learn a lot from his initial reaction: if he is surprised by the effect his behavior had on you, if he is sorry and willing to make amends/ learn from this etc. Dependent on his reaction you can then move on to talk about how you want to share household chores going forward.

 

In this way you clearly signal him that his behavior was not ok, that you were seriously hurt, that you will not tolerate this kind of behavior, but that you are willing to work on a solution.

[Ms Darcy]

That's a big part of what you learn in couples counseling (or regular counseling): how to have difficult conversations and keep them constructive, not aggressive or passive-aggressive.

 

Counseling is a good idea. Very often in counseling, if it helps the couple, both people will be able to see how both behaviors contribute to the situation.

 

I do agree with the feedback that it can be very hard to be in a relationship where you have to walk on eggshells because of your partner's past. For unhealthy gentlemen, the resentment might "emerge" in a public environment because it's the only way to vent frustration safely.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Honestly, if he had never brought it up with you before, then I don't think it really bothers him at all. I think he just did it to humiliate or to tease you. Some people do that, they think making fun of their SOs in front of others is cool, they get some kind of satisfaction from it. I don't think it's necessarily bad or evil, but it's definitely NOT smart. I think you should talk to him about it and tell him how you feel and think. If he is ever insensitive again, then you know what to do..

[aggie70]

Hike,

 

There is a great book that I highly recommend called "Living with the Passive Aggressive Man" by Scott Wetzler.

 

It helped me immensely in identifying the baffling behavior and treatment that I allowed myself to be subjected to by my ex. It reinforced that I was not crazy, that everything was not my fault, and that in my case walking away was the only way, no matter how much I thought I cared for him.

 

You can get it from the library or from Amazon. Good luck and stay strong!

[Applewhite]

One thing I omitted was that he had brought this up with me before, but always by teasing as a joke. Never in front of people and never to that extent trying to make a point and continue.

 

We talked, it didn't go well. I did my best to use what mfan suggested. But he got heated and said what? As if he had no clue even what I was talking about (but from his reaction and face I could tell he DID know). First he said I am sorry and it was just a joke. Then when I told him I suspect you have a problem with it and maybe you prefer having a discussion on house chores etc. He said no I have no problems with it and I can't believe how you got offended by that. So I said would you have been offended if I started about the dog crap etc. He said yes I would, but if I had said it jokingly then no.

 

Anyway at some point during the conversation he changed his mind and said the water bottles DID bother him (which contradicts that he always meant them as a joke - obviously not). He claims I made him 'think' about it and he realized that it was a problem. I told him joking and teasing was just his method of communicating and is he going to solve all our problems this way? I said if I have a problem am I just supposed to tease you? He said if I pick up the water bottles there would be no reason for him to tease! I got very upset with this. The way he thinks is so stupid. I guess this is how he wants to solve problems, tease me until I am hurt so I get it done.

 

He didn't want to talk more about this and got angry and defensive. He said I am playing mind games (???) and I am trying to trap him in a corner (? for what purpose??). He said I get this from my 'enotalone crap'. And he is not playing this game anymore.

 

Very adult. This is not the man I want to be with. I don't know what to do from here.

[DN]

This is not the man I want to be with.

He is probably having similar thoughts - but is this what both of you really want? To split up over this?

[Applewhite]

He is probably having similar thoughts - but is this what both of you really want? To split up over this?

 

DN, it seems as though when he has a problem he wants to resolve it by teasing me and he doesn't want to think about whether he hurts my feelings this way or not. He claims he wasn't aware of how he was trying to solve his problem with the bottles, but he was aware of it while we talked and his suggestion was: if you pick up after yourself there won't be something to tease about. What I understand from this is he sees no problem in the way he communicated this. And I am 'broken' so I took it the wrong way. And to protect my broken self this is how I should handle his teasing from now on, should I be offended.

[DN]

Without wishing to say "I told you so" - it just seems to me that what I predicted would happen did happen and I don't want you looking back and really regretting a relationship you say is mostly good.

 

I strongly urge you to suggest couples counseling.

[DN]

"Seek first to understand, then to be understood"

[mfan]

Oh, how awful. But, you definitely did make him sit up and think, even though it may not have sunk into him yet. This is probably the first time in his 35 (or however old he is) years that he has ever been confronted about his truly terrible communication skills, because no one wanted to be bothered doing it. Unless he tells you things like an adult instead of like a little kid, joking around and making snide comments, he'll get nothing back.

 

He'd better apologize for the enotalone crap comment. I don't mean on our behalf, I mean for assuming you can't choose your own ideas out of a set of suggestions and are blindly repeating anything anyone else says.

[Applewhite]

Oh, how awful. But, you definitely did make him sit up and think, even though it may not have sunk into him yet. This is probably the first time in his 35 (or however old he is) years that he has ever been confronted about his truly terrible communication skills, because no one wanted to be bothered doing it. Unless he tells you things like an adult instead of like a little kid, joking around and making snide comments, he'll get nothing back.

 

He'd better apologize for the enotalone crap comment. I don't mean on our behalf, I mean for assuming you can't choose your own ideas out of a set of suggestions and are blindly repeating anything anyone else says.

 

He can think whatever. I mean if he was smart - he'd come here and read and notice that if anything what I read on here made me TONE DOWN my argument.

 

And I talked to him after him saying: 'wow I can't believe it no bottles/cups around today, how can that be?!'. So no matter what he has to ruin the moment by making a 'joke'.

 

Also this 'you made me think' line is not true. He has used it before, and now I am really really.. disappointed and shocked. Because that was even worse and this makes the other argument loose credibility too since now it seems like an excuse rather than he genuinely 'didn't know' but I made him think.

[penelope13]

Hike, I am not sure with what type of mindset you went into this conversation: was it about finding a resolution to move forward, or to have him admit to his 'wrongdoing' as well as with the expectation that he would mess up?

 

I don't think that either one of you has communication skills that are conducive to problem solving, thus couples therapy (as many have suggested) to improve those skills is highly recommendable.

 

Either way you decide (to stay with him or not), you will need to learn to separate past hurt from the situation at hand.

 

He said if I pick up the water bottles there would be no reason for him to tease! I got very upset with this. The way he thinks is so stupid. I guess this is how he wants to solve problems, tease me until I am hurt so I get it done.

 

What would your ideal solution to this problem be?

[Applewhite]

Hike, I am not sure with what type of mindset you went into this conversation: was it about finding a resolution to move forward, or to have him admit to his 'wrongdoing' as well as with the expectation that he would mess up?

 

I don't think that either one of you has communication skills that are conducive to problem solving, thus couples therapy (as many have suggested) to improve those skills is highly recommendable.

 

Either way you decide (to stay with him or not), you will need to learn to separate past hurt from the situation at hand.

 

 

 

What would your ideal solution to this problem be?

 

First of all, because of the way he communicated his problem there was confusion on BOTH sides. He started saying he didn't mind that they were just jokes (which is how I took them too - so I wasn't paying attention if I left bottles around or not). But the jokes got more and more common and he would say something even when there aren't bottles around! And finally he said it in front of his extended family (charming ha?) And in our conversation first he said they were all jokes but then admitted that he had a problem with it (because I made him THINK. * * * ?)

 

So if he has a problem first admit it to himself, then tell me - rather than tease me about it is the adult way to do it.

 

When I told him this, he said I was playing mind games and trying to trap him in a corner.

 

Another part of my anger stems from the fact that the water bottle thing is such a petty thing to be upset about. So much that he feels the need to bring it up and tease me about it. He is not exactly a neat freak. Before I met him, his house was really messy and he had 2 month old dishes laying around. It was so messy he hadn't invited anyone over in years, and he couldn't invite me he had to lie that he had company over. So now complaining about water bottles......

[penelope13]

I get it, you are totally angry about this. But what are you really angry about?

 

- he was teasing you about it

- he was teasing you in front of his family

- it's such a silly thing to be upset about

- he expects you to pick up the bottles

- he doesn't do enough chores around the house

- he is not admitting that he hurt you

- you are afraid he is turning into your dad

- he criticized you although you feel more entitled to criticize him

 

can you make a ranking of these things?

 

One thing that is taught in couples therapy is to learn to listen what the other person is saying, not what you believe they are saying.

 

Also to keep in mind: don't expect something from your partner, if you can't deliver it yourself. (You are angry that he is not handling this in an adult way, to be frank, your approach doesn't sound more mature either).

[Applewhite]

What do you think I should have done to handle it more maturely?

[SpottiOtti]

Hi Hike, I've been reading your thread and I have some thoughts about it. It seems to me that there are two problems in this situation, and if you could consider each problem separately I think it might help you to see things more objectively.

 

First, I'm getting a strong sense of your issues with your father bleeding over into this relationship. I have had "daddy" issues of my own, and I completely understand where you are coming from, right down to resenting your mother for not leaving the situation and continuing to expose you and your brother to it. Our fathers sound quite similar, actually. It took me years to recognize that I was putting responsibility on my partners to make up for what my father did when I was a child, and that it is not fair to them. From your posts, it sounds like your strong reaction to the things your BF said is coming from feelings that have a lot to do with your childhood. The reason for this is that that situation triggered a memory of a similar situation from your childhood, which in turn triggered an emotional gut response. Of course you're upset, and hurt - your BF brought back all of those feelings when he said those things. The thing is, the sum of all those emotions from your childhood are what you are reacting to first and most strongly. Someone without your background most likely would have shrugged this whole thing off - they don't have that well of bad emotions from childhood to contend with.

 

Second, I think that your BF is indeed passive-aggressive. At first I thought maybe he was just joking, but after reading your post about the convo you two had about this, it seems that he is not good at all at communicating his issues and feelings to you. I know that is very frustrating (again from personal experience).

 

Third, I think that your whole response was also passive-aggressive. You got really, really angry about this, and instead of telling him, you pulled away from the relationship and said things here like "If he's going to make a big deal about water bottles then I'm not going to cook him dinner." You obviously (understandably) had an issue with the dog crap, but said nothing, only allowing the resentment you felt to emerge when he gave you a target (the water bottles). The way that you could have handled this more maturely is to just speak up as soon as you felt bothered, not let it simmer for a couple days. Simmering on it made you angrier than was warranted, and led to you feeling that you needed to give ultimatums and end the relationship. It sounds like the other things you mentioned that were bothering you (which you did not mention to him) are also contributing to that "ultimatum" state of mind.

 

I think the other posters' suggestions about assertiveness training and couples' counseling are spot-on. I think you both need some guidance on how to argue/communicate better. I also think that working with a therapist individually to resolve these issues you have from your childhood will strengthen this and any other relationship you have in the future.

 

Good luck - I understand where you're at, and I know it's tough. Hugs.

[Applewhite]

Thank you. I really can't afford counseling right now, at least not until fall. And I really don't know that he would go either.

 

And for the record, I tried once. It wasn't very helpful. But I've been meaning to try again anyway.

[SpottiOtti]

I know, counseling can be expensive. In my area there are counselors that are less expensive, through community centers and the like. Is there anything like that in your area? In the meantime, there are a lot of books you can read that will help you shed some light on your feelings and issues. A really good one that helped me a lot is "The Emotionally Abused Woman" by Beverly Engel. Also, don't know if your dad was a drinker (mine was) but any book you can find on the adult children of alcoholics will probably be insightful.

 

It is not uncommon to have to try a few counselors before you find the right one. Kudos to you for wanting to try again.

 

I am troubled that your BF said something to the effect of, "You came up with this stuff from your stupid ENA forum." It seems disrespectful toward you. You come on here so that you can learn from other people's perspectives in order to better yourself and your relationship. Him saying something like that makes it seem that he is not interested in that.

[Applewhite]

He is opinionated. He thinks you are trashing him and I am getting ideas from here. Whatever, his problem not mine. I don't feel the need to explain myself or defend the forum (he isn't usually that disrespectful and I'd rather not escalate things because he doesn't like my forum)

 

My dad was not an alcoholic. He was completely conscious and aware of his actions when he struck us, humiliated us, belittled us, scared us and threatened us.

[mfan]

I suggested learning about assertiveness (and not couples counseling, although I'm always in favor of that) because (a) Assertiveness will help you throughout your life, not just with this one particular guy, (b) there is tons of free info on the web about it, and © it's fun. And you can practice all the time too: just make up situations and imagine how you might respond to them in an assertive way. You'll also be able to identify other people's mistakes, in their postings here on enotalone, for example, that may have caused them to fail to resolve conflicts or problems they have.

 

BTW, I really worked for weeks and weeks on assertiveness, reading everything I could get my hands on (but without spending any money), and ultimately condensing it to a 3-page summary... but that summary is probably better tailored to what I needed, and may not fit your personal situation so well. I'll always be happy to provide you with any info I happen to have, but I bet you'll be more inspired to learn about it on your own. Best of luck. Sorry for posting so much enotalone crap.

[penelope13]

What do you think I should have done to handle it more maturely?

 

Firstly, do not force a discussion while you are still experiencing the peak of your anger. Allow yourself sufficient time to calm down.

 

Secondly, really try to figure out what your MAIN issue is, what you are really angry about, where the intensity of your response comes from and what you would really like to accomplish from a discussion before you sit down with your partner. It's not beneficial to anyone to sit down angry and bring up all sorts of past issues (big and small), because it might dilute out what your main concern is. Then during your discussion focus on that particular issue.

 

Thirdly, when you sit down to discuss, use sentences with "I feel...." rather than "you did this and that". In the first instance he can't deny what you feel and has to deal with your feelings, in the latter you open up the possibility for arguing. Also don't tell him what you think he is thinking/ feeling/ what his intentions are. You have to give him the opportunity to express himself in his own words. Don't put words/ feelings/ thoughts into his mouth. Accusations are never the best opening strategy to problem solving.

 

Rather than demanding him to act like an adult, be less passive-aggressive before he "earns" the same treatment from you, show him how it's done.

 

If you are going into any discussion about things you are unhappy with, be mentally and emotionally prepared that you might also hear things that he doesn't like about you. (Yes empty bottles seems like a minor thing, but he also has the right to be upset about it, thus no need for you to be so hurt that this bothers him). If you expect him to admit to his shortcomings/ faults, be prepared to do the same. It's not helpful if both partners insist that the other one has to be the first to admit/apologize.

[Applewhite]

I tried this. When I told him I feel angry and embarrassed when you bring things like this up in front of your family. I feel hurt when you bring them up in a teasing way when we are alone too. His answer was he will do his best, however if I want to avoid the teasing I should have just picked up after myself.

 

This really troubled me.

 

In addition - it is not even true. When he came home he looked for a used cup. When he couldn't find one he said oh- there are no cups around! WOW how could that be - or some sarcastic comment like that. So regardless of me picking up or not he seems obsessed with putting me down, whether or not he sees this as 'joking'.

[mfan]

That is lousy that he stuck that "back door excuse" in there, but when you get good at this approach you will be able to counter that cheap shot with a fluent "Again, I want you to discuss issues like this with me directly and without teasing, and if you tease me about them then I will believe you are not doing your best."

 

And each time he responds in a way that includes a back door, you repeat the above, word for word, until he concurs. (This is the "broken record" technique... the good thing about assertive statements is that they don't hurt anyone's feelings, so you can say them over and over again without being mean.)