Passive aggressiveness

[Applewhite]

No, that is aggressive, not assertive. And it's not you, hike! You're too good for that. Assertiveness has a very specific structure. Basically, you state something in a matter-of-fact way that includes an "I feel" statement and a "when" or "because" clause, and often a consequence too if the other person doesn't stop doing whatever it is they did. You say it in a dispassionate way but it is a statement of feeling. When done right, there's really no possible response to it except for the other person to acknowledge how your feel and just accept and understand it. There is a lot of free information about how to speak assertively on the Internet. If I come accross a good site I will definitely share it with you.

 

I feel shocked and disgusted that you would bring up your problems with me in front of your family rather than discussing them with me privately because that is the appropriate thing to do and you know better than this. If you continue with this topic, I will have to return the favor and it will not be pleasant.

[sophie274]

But it wasn't me that started talking about dirty laundry in front of his family it is HIM. If I wanted to talk about dirty laundry and embarrass him, I could have easily mentioned the dog crap (in and outside of the house) his dirty socks, the dog hair all around, etc. I chose not to. Shouldn't there be a consequence for him bringing this up in the first place? Doesn't your suggestion sound way too passive?

 

Actually I did something similar to what you said and it backfired because he continued to do it.

 

What you said sounds to me like you are too focused on "winning" than on being happy together. IMO, when your boyfriend does something rude or embarrassing, the way to deal with it is to point out why it was rude/embarrassing (later, if it happens in public) and tell him why/how it hurt your feelings and tell him that it's really important to you that he not do that. Then if continues putting you down in public, well ... time to think seriously about whether he's someone you want to be in a relationship with.

 

If my boyfriend were going on about something, I would try to make a joke and change the subject. In this case, something like "Gosh I had no idea I left such a trail of water bottles behind me." and then very obviously change the subject, such as: "[bF's mother]: How is your garden coming along? I saw you planted some beautiful new rose bushes", or something. And if he continues, say very calmly "Honey, you're starting to hurt my feelings. Let's talk about something else. [bF's mother], do you have the recipe for this X dish? It's delicious."

[Applewhite]

You must agree that it is not easy to come up with a smart joke or change the subject easily on the spot like that if you are the person experiencing the embarrassment in front of your significant others family, in their house. I wish it was that easy, but it isn't.

[sophie274]

I feel shocked and disgusted that you would bring up your problems with me in front of your family rather than discussing them with me privately because that is the appropriate thing to do and you know better than this. If you continue with this topic, I will have to return the favor and it will not be pleasant.

 

Hike, imagine that you're a family member and you're witnessing the interaction between you and your boyfriend. How awkward and out of place would you feel hearing this? Everyone would be so uncomfortable. I think it's rude to the family who's invited you to have a public argument. I think it's never appropriate to argue in public. If you can't get him to drop the subject, excuse yourself to go to the bathroom and sit there for 5 minutes and hope the subject's changed by the time you get back. Then talk to him all you want at home - with as much frankness as necessary.

[Applewhite]

And regardless of what wonderful reaction I have to his unacceptable behavior to alleviate the situation - that doesn't change the fact that he CHOSE to behave that way and his preferences and mindset will be in the same place if I do not react to it and just avoid it in a smart and pleasant way on the spot.

[sophie274]

You must agree that it is not easy to come up with a smart joke or change the subject easily on the spot like that if you are the person experiencing the embarrassment in front of your significant others family, in their house. I wish it was that easy, but it isn't.

 

Completely agree, Hike.

I get in similar situations with my mother (not usually boyfriend), and other arguments with her where I feel she runs me over ... when I was in therapy, I role-played with the therapist where he would "play" my mother and I would practice "standing up" to her in a constructive/polite/assertive way. It was really helpful.

 

That's a big part of what you learn in couples counseling (or regular counseling): how to have difficult conversations and keep them constructive, not aggressive or passive-aggressive.

[Applewhite]

Hike, imagine that you're a family member and you're witnessing the interaction between you and your boyfriend. How awkward and out of place would you feel hearing this? Everyone would be so uncomfortable. I think it's rude to the family who's invited you to have a public argument. I think it's never appropriate to argue in public. If you can't get him to drop the subject, excuse yourself to go to the bathroom and sit there for 5 minutes and hope the subject's changed by the time you get back. Then talk to him all you want at home - with as much frankness as necessary.

 

Yes I agree that it would be extremely awkward and unpleasant. This is exactly why he should not have initiated it.

 

And if I have to live the rest of my life the way I have been living it with my parents, the way you described hiding in the bathroom at social gatherings - that it isn't worth it and I do not want to be with him. It makes me angry to even think about it.

[sophie274]

And regardless of what wonderful reaction I have to his unacceptable behavior to alleviate the situation - that doesn't change the fact that he CHOSE to behave that way and his preferences and mindset will be in the same place if I do not react to it and just avoid it in a smart and pleasant way on the spot.

 

Yes, and if I were you I would be very upset too (although I agree with DN to make sure it was not just a misunderstanding where he was teasing you). That's where you have to tell him how badly it made you feel, and how you really disliked him being passive-aggressive and staging this in front of your family. And hopefully he apologizes and doesn't do it again.

 

We all, unfortunately, treat our partners less well than we should at times. You have to decide if he's someone who doesn't treat you well in general, or if this was just a one-off that you can talk about and feel confident won't likely happen again.

[Applewhite]

Yes, and if I were you I would be very upset too (although I agree with DN to make sure it was not just a misunderstanding where he was teasing you). That's where you have to tell him how badly it made you feel, and how you really disliked him being passive-aggressive and staging this in front of your family. And hopefully he apologizes and doesn't do it again.

 

We all, unfortunately, treat our partners less well than we should at times. You have to decide if he's someone who doesn't treat you well in general, or if this was just a one-off that you can talk about and feel confident won't likely happen again.

 

We will see his reaction when I talk to him about it.

 

I really don't want to cook for him tonight. And I don't want to go kayaking like we had originally planned. Are these things normal and ok? In fact is it ok if I have a talk with him then go for a drive outside by myself?

[sophie274]

We will see his reaction when I talk to him about it.

 

I really don't want to cook for him tonight. And I don't want to go kayaking like we had originally planned. Are these things normal and ok? In fact is it ok if I have a talk with him then go for a drive outside by myself?

 

Hopefully others will weigh in on this, but in my opinion, no, it's not ok. I mean it's very normal that you feel annoyed at him, but I think it's in the best interest of your relationship for you to keep the plans - you'll be spending fun, quality time together, and you could have a good conversation, then mutually forgive each other for whatever, and spend the rest of the evening bonding instead of sulking. That's how I see it. Tempting to cancel the plans, but you're just turning this into a really big deal and potentially making things worse, IMO.

[mfan]

And regardless of what wonderful reaction I have to his unacceptable behavior to alleviate the situation - that doesn't change the fact that he CHOSE to behave that way and his preferences and mindset will be in the same place if I do not react to it and just avoid it in a smart and pleasant way on the spot.

He definitely shouldn't have done that, and I empathize with you about how you're disappointed that his mindset was at the point that he thought doing that was okay in the first place. But, once he knows it bothers you (if put to him in the right way), he'll probably want to change his mindset.

 

I found my excerpts about how to be assertive (I picked the best advice from a variety of sources), but it's 3 pages so I don't want to hijack this thread. Would you like me to PM you?

 

I think an assertive response would be to talk to him later and tell him: "I felt it was impolite of you to complain about my cleanliness in front of your family. I feel hurt and confused that instead of bringing this matter up with me in a private conversation, you chose to discuss our personal matters in front of many other people. Please don't bring up our private matters with them again or [i will not go with you to visit your family anymore]" (or whatever consequence you feel is appropriate.

[Applewhite]

sure, PM away. Thanks.

[DN]

The best thing in an disagreement or even conflict with a spouse is to talk openly but non-aggressively and to de-escalate rather than escalate.

 

I don't think it is a good dea to talk to him and then cancel your plans - that would look like either you were trying to punish him or were just being petty and would escalate. I would go out have as much fun as you can.

[Applewhite]

The best thing in an disagreement or even conflict with a spouse is to talk openly but non-aggressively and to de-escalate rather than escalate.

 

I don't think it is a good dea to talk to him and then cancel your plans - that would look like either you were trying to punish him or were just being petty and would escalate. I would go out have as much fun as you can.

 

But what about dinner? I don't really feel like preparing him dinner if he is going to be petty in front of his family about picking up a freakin water bottle. He can make his own dinner.

[DN]

But what about dinner? I don't really feel like preparing him dinner if he is going to be petty in front of his family about picking up a freakin water bottle. He can make his own dinner.

Well, this is meeting passive-aggressiveness with passive-aggressiveness.

 

How about doing this - find all the empty water bottles you can, empty some if you have to to make enough, make his favorite dinner and when you call him to the table have his plate surrounded by the empty bottles with you there smiling sweetly at him.

 

Now, if he sees the humour then you can start a dialogue off on the right note. If he doesn't, then he has a sense of humour problem and it will tell you even more about him.

[Applewhite]

Well, this is meeting passive-aggressiveness with passive-aggressiveness.

 

How about doing this - find all the empty water bottles you can, empty some if you have to to make enough, make his favorite dinner and when you call him to the table have his plate surrounded by the empty bottles with you there smiling sweetly at him.

 

Now, if he sees the humour then you can start a dialogue off on the right note. If he doesn't, then he has a sense of humour problem and it will tell you even more about him.

 

Certainly creative but I don't know if this is the best route to take. This really isn't a joke to me. If I can't communicate this right, or even if I do communicate it perfectly and it isn't resolved this will mean the end of the relationship for me. So I don't want to make a joke out of it. This is really serious.

 

And honestly, I really don't WANT to make him a meal. If he minds picking up water bottles, then so be it. But if we are counting tasks and being annoyed at each other that goes both ways.

 

I will throw out water bottles. And from now on I will mark all bottles that are mine. Because another thing is I really don't think that all the bottles he claims are mine are all mine either.

[DN]

OK - but look please don't escalate this because that is the route you are going. And then one of you will end it for the wrong reasons amid a whole lot of bad feelings that will poison future relationships. You have to find a better way to deal with this.

[DN]

Why not try saying something like "Look, hon, I really like your family and want to feel a part of it. But I was embarrassed by what you said about the water bottle thing. You were probably just teasing and didn't mean it in a mean way but I am sensitive about stuff like that in front of other people and it made me feel bad. Please don't do things like that again. If you have a beef about stuff, just tell me privately"

[Applewhite]

I will clean my water bottles. But I don't feel like preparing a meal. Why is this such a bad thing. Am I not entitled to this?

 

And if I clean my water bottles, isn't it only fair to ask him to pick the dog crap up off the yard?

[DN]

You are entitled to do what you want. Will not cooking his dinner make this situation better or worse in the long run?

 

I would feel entitled to ask him to pick up the dog crap anyway whether I picked up the water bottles or not. I was going to say that is like comparing apples and oranges but it may put people off fruit.

[Applewhite]

You are entitled to do what you want. Will not cooking his dinner make this situation better or worse in the long run?

 

I would feel entitled to ask him to pick up the dog crap anyway whether I picked up the water bottles or not. I was going to say that is like comparing apples and oranges but it may put people off fruit.

 

 

I am comparing them in a sense because I put up with THAT and I didn't shove it in his face in private or public (even though I really wanted to). And I put up with way more than picking up water bottles like he claims he does.

 

You put up with some crap when you live with someone - that is just the way it is. Maybe not literally like I did though.

 

But if we are so pristine and organized that we can't put up with it, that has to go both ways.

[mfan]

I will clean my water bottles. But I don't feel like preparing a meal. Why is this such a bad thing. Am I not entitled to this?

Of course you're entitled not to make dinner for him or not go through with your kayaking arrangement and whatever else. But I think it's bad to do these things without explicitly telling him why. Otherwise, you know what'll happen? He won't see the connection at all, and he'll think you're in some mood for no reason and it'll make things worse. Clueless People Don't Learn! Let's repeat that 1000 times: Clueless People Don't Learn. We all heard about what happened and it's obvious to you and to us that he shouldn't have said what he said to his family. But for some reason he doesn't "get it" and unless you tell him, you know what he'll think when you don't make dinner or cancel kayaking? "Oh, she's in one of her moods again." No matter how obvious something is, if someone just doesn't internally "get it", then they won't wake up one day and just suddenly realize: "oh my god, I should never have mentioned the water bottles, what a dope I was". Clueless people have to be told.

 

Occasionally they have to be told more than once, but often once is enough. If you don't tell them, they use that as an excuse! It's horrible, I know. But state the problem, how you feel, and the solution that you expect him to follow through with, without starting any new fights, and you can put a stop to the problems and live an even better life than before without carrying awful grudges around making your days miserable bc you keep thinking about them.

[DN]

I do understand what you are saying and I do get it. But like I say, it is better if you want the relationship and want it to be better not to escalate this.

 

Why not try doing it the way I suggested - you can always try your way if mine doesn't work. But I fear your way could result in ending the relationship prematurely.

[Applewhite]

No I won't leave him completely in the dark. I will tell him (hopefully in an assertive way, as best as I can with what little reading I did today) what I think of what happened and it is unacceptable to me.

 

Then I will tell him I am not hungry and I didn't feel like making him dinner. He can have the left overs from 4th of July by himself while I go throw out the water bottles if any are left.

[Applewhite]

I do understand what you are saying and I do get it. But like I say, it is better if you want the relationship and want it to be better not to escalate this.

 

Why not try doing it the way I suggested - you can always try your way if mine doesn't work. But I fear your way could result in ending the relationship prematurely.

 

I really don't feel like making him dinner. I was already nice to him and helped drive him to get his car done the day after. I even waited with him. This made me even more angry and resentful. So I don't think it is a good idea to do things I don't feel like doing right now. He is a 37 year old adult. If he can complain about water bottles, he can figure out what to feed himself too.