Can a long term cheater change?

[SadAndy]

My question is one purely out of interest.

 

I was with my ex for 14 yrs (age 19-33) and in that time we had a child, nearly 8 years ago. Up until then everything was fine.

 

5 Years ago she had a 6 month affair with my (ex) best mate which only stopped when I found out. She didn't show any real remorse commenting 'well we weren't getting on' and 'well i've said i'm sorry, what more can i do'

She has recently dumped me for a much younger guy (21, shes 33) and shortly after confessed that she had infact re-started the affair with the original guy and it had been going on for the last 18 months!

She claimed that she wanted the 'attention' but it has now come to light that the guy wasn't even spending 15 minutes in the house. It was a question of in he comes, does the deed (anal mostly) and home he goes.

 

She claims to have told the new guy about her affairs, whether she has explained the depth of them I very much doubt it.

 

My question is, can she change simply by saying that she has. After all, she said that she wouldn't do it again after the first time and then SHE started it up again.

There is no question of it giving her something that I didn't. I have done anal and anything else that she wanted.

 

I did suggest that she goes for counselling to rule out any post natal depression etc but she said that she didn't need to. She now claims to 'love the new guy too much to ever cheat on him'.

 

Finally, I am not a bad person, quite the opposite. I was kind, considerate, worked hard, family orientated etc. She truly had nothing to complain about.

[Fudgie]

I am not dissing all "cheaters" here. I think some people honestly do make mistakes and can make for it.

 

However, the words here are "long term". This sounds like someone who has a problem with cheating and has demonstrated a pattern. They are not going to get better unless they get some help and realize WHY this pattern is occurring in their life and how to stop it. I am sure that unless she seeks help, she is just going to keep cheating.

[pumpkinmoon]

I'm a bit confused. Who didn't even spend 15 minutes in the house? This one she is with now?

 

To answer your question, I don't think it's likely. Anyone can cheat once and not do it again, but if you have a history of it and have done it many times, then I think it goes much deeper, it almost becomes a part of their character. I also think that the more someone does it, the easier it becomes to do.

[Firiel]

Can a long-term, unrepentant cheater change? Yes.

 

Will a long-term, unrepentant cheater change? Probably not.

 

It wouldn't be worth the risk to me.

[petite]

They possibly change, but I think majority don't because they figure if they have been forgiven once or twice it will happen always. Cheating doesn't just happen, it's not as if your brain stops working and the whole alcohol excuse is a bit too old for my liking.

Not worth the risk.

[alli]

I think they could stop cheating if they wanted to. But if they've done it over a long period of time on multiple partners, obviously remorse doesn't make them want to stop, so why would they? I think all "can" but few "will". All depends on the person & if they ever reach a turning point & change their ways.

[catfeeder]

My bet would be the only change is that they just get better at hiding it.

[annie24]

i think that a one-time "oops" cheater would change more than a long term one. i can see one time, being drunk, making a stupid mistake. but over the long term, to lie and deceive your partner, that tells me they are pretty selfish and good at justifying in their head why their behavior is ok. i wouldn't count on a long-term cheater changing unless something major happened.

[sigmond freud]

God I hate that excuse..I was drunk...take some responsibility for your actions..cheaters suck

[annie24]

God I hate that excuse..I was drunk...take some responsibility for your actions..cheaters suck

 

yeah, not like it's a good excuse. but i'd rather forgive the guy who did it one time while drunk than someone who cheated for 6 months while sober.

[Lucius]

I think that to change a behaviour a person has to be very, very self-motivated to do so. It can be hard to change the ways that we have become used to coping with situations and feelings. Unless a person does feel a pressing need to do so - a need that is sustained and sincere, not temporary and suited to a short-term agenda - then long-term change is not going to happen. In this case, the case of cheaters, I'd look to see signs of sincere and powerful remorse, empathy, and a greater awareness of what motivated her - why she did what she did, and why she won't be doing it in the future. In other words: self-awareness, empathy, remorse, and a self-motivated desire to make different, better choices. Merely asserting something, without those factors present, is nothing more than hot air.

 

I'd give her very low odds of changing her ways any time soon.

[SadAndy]

My bet would be the only change is that they just get better at hiding it.

 

That statement is more true than you know! I worked out the first affair (the 6 month one) and I was always suspicious hence why I worked out the affair with the new bloke that she left me for quite early on. I didn't, and never had any idea that the second long term affair was going on, she was hiding it that well.

 

Interestingly, she has now claimed that she was 'used' by the ex-friend and that she feels disgusted with herself and with what she's done etc (only after she got caught of course!)

 

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. She did after all not have any affairs for 2 years after I found out but then decided one day to re-start it as things obviously weren't going her way.

She will either treat this as as 'escape' and a chance to start a fresh or she will get bored in time and do it again. Who knows?

 

She is a very selfish and devious woman and I just wonder if that will change overnight. Once again, she didn't admit to this new bloke until I worked it out and yet she moved him in 2 days after I moved out.

He is naive and young and could easily be cheated on if she wanted to.

 

Time will tell. Sadly, my daughter is in the middle of all this.

[mrmaximum]

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. She did after all not have any affairs for 2 years after I found out but then decided one day to re-start it as things obviously weren't going her way.

She will either treat this as as 'escape' and a chance to start a fresh or she will get bored in time and do it again. Who knows?

 

She is a very selfish and devious woman and I just wonder if that will change overnight. Once again, she didn't admit to this new bloke until I worked it out and yet she moved him in 2 days after I moved out.

He is naive and young and could easily be cheated on if she wanted to.

 

Time will tell. Sadly, my daughter is in the middle of all this.

 

I'm afraid not, re-read Lucius' post as he hit the nail squarely on head. It's a shame that you and your daughter are going through this. If you decide to bounce, this MAY snap her out of it, as losing you may be the reality check she needs to realize what she's doing is wrong, but it may not.

[SadAndy]

she is VERY unlikely to treat the 'losing' of me as a reality check. She has made it clear that the new bloke is perfect and has 'made her realise what was wrong with our relationship'. There was only one thing wrong, her integrity and her ability to drop her knickers for anyone who smiled at her!

 

She seems to think that she deserves the very best whilst making no effort in return and I can tell that she has 'forgotten' me already. She has justified her reasons for cheating as 'i don't love him anymore' but the reality is that she is just a very selfish individual who wanted her cake and eat it too.

If she was so desperately unhappy, why didn't I know anything about it and why didn't she end the relationship then?

 

Interestingly, the wife of the bloke she had the long term affairs with has 'forgiven' him and my ex is perfectly happy so both parties have escaped unscathed!

[Etoile]

Sorry to repeat what everyone else has said but yes I think she will cheat again.

 

You say that she said she was desperately unhappy with you and why did she say nothing - well I think, and it is just my non expert opinion, that this is a pattern of people who cheat. They don't want to communicate. They let their problems in their current relationship build up and up, they don't give their partners any indication that anything is wrong. One day they meet someone they find attractive and they see this new person as different, new, everything my current partner isn't, meets my needs and well basically they cheat and if it goes well they may slowly replace you with this new person and then they may also leave you.

 

She says she will never cheat with this new person because he is perfect but sorry that is rubbish! They are in the honeymoon stage at the moment. If their relationship gets into difficulties (most relationships do at some point or another) she will revert to her old pattern of not communicating. Then the relationship is doomed. I can't tell you whether that will happen soon or years down the line. To me your ex sounds a bit unstable, like she doesn't really know what she wants. In a way knowing that she will more than likely repeat her cheating should hopefully make you feel a bit better. Not that you wish someone else to be cheated on but the fact that it was almost inevitable that she would cheat on you and will probably continue to cheat on others. I hope you understand what I'm saying I'm not very good at expressing myself.

 

BTW "I've said I'm sorry what more can I say" my ex said that to me too! lol. Shows a complete lack of empathy a trait common in cheaters I believe.

[SadAndy]

i understand your comment perfectly and it totally agrees with my thoughts.

 

For the record, and i know you will all howl with laughter, but our relationship really wasn't that bad. Our sex life was good (even better for her obviously!), we had a nice gouse, holidays etc and we didn't row. For some reason though it obviously wasn't enough and she thought there was better out there for her.

 

I think in the end she will do it again as like I say she had everything and i was loving towards her and said all the right things etc.

I think its simply a case of power, i.e sex when she dictated it , excitement and novelty.

She now has all that with the new bloke/boy but she's bound to get bored again.

 

She never made any effort but expected everything, does that sound like a standard trait of a cheater?

 

If i'm honest, i hope she does cheat on him. That would be retribution for him cheating with her when she was with me.

If she did, he works set hours as opposed to my shift work so the opportunity is there.

She has told him of her previous affairs (probably along with a tale of why I deserved it) so if he isn't worried that she will do it again (he obviously isn't as he's taking a mortgage out) then he is ripe for the taking!

[Etoile]

"For the record, and i know you will all howl with laughter, but our relationship really wasn't that bad. Our sex life was good (even better for her obviously!), we had a nice gouse, holidays etc and we didn't row. For some reason though it obviously wasn't enough and she thought there was better out there for her."

 

I'm sure you thought your relationship wasn't bad but she probably did and said nothing. Not your fault! Like I said she just isn't prepared to communicate. The fact that you didn't row makes me feel more strongly her overiding desire was not to communicate.

 

 

"She never made any effort but expected everything, does that sound like a standard trait of a cheater?"

 

I don't know to be honest. My ex was not a long term cheater like your ex was. My ex started going out with the new girl about a month before we broke up although the emotional infidelity (flirting, chatting her up, talking about going out with each other) which I still count as cheating had been going on for a few months prior. Your ex is a long term cheater. Possibly she doesn't see relationships as things that need work. She expects everything to be there for her and if it isn't all there for her she's not prepared to put the effort in and so she looks for something better elsewhere.

[catfeeder]

Anybody 'can' change any voluntary behavior they wish. It's more realistic to question whether they 'will' do so.

 

I think you know the answer to that.

[SadAndy]

I have just had a text from the ex in which, after a chat via text about a few other things, she stated that 'I did mean alot to her', she 'did want our family to last forever' but 'people and circumstances change'.

 

If I did mean 'alot' to her (obviously not enough) and she loves this new bloke (21years old, shes 33, together 4 mths) so much more than me, could her affairs be justified on the basis that she wasn't happy? Or is it a trait that is now part of her personality. She was polite in her texts but there is definitely an air of 'look at me, i'm number one. Everyone wants me' that makes me wonder if she has truly changed and never will cheat again or whether she HAS changed and now this 'arrogance/confidence' is part of her character now.

Not wishing to pre-empt your replies but the problems relating to her affairs were that she wants everything (thinks she deserves it) without giving as much (or in my case, anything!). She did state that she started the affairs for the 'attention'.

 

Your views would be most welcome.

[Lucius]

If I did mean 'alot' to her (obviously not enough) and she loves this new bloke (21years old, shes 33, together 4 mths) so much more than me, could her affairs be justified on the basis that she wasn't happy?

 

Of course not. If she was so 'unhappy' she could have simply broken up with you at any point. Instead she chose to betray you. Nothing justifies cheating - not when there is always the option to part ways with decency and respect.

 

When someone who is terribly self-involved claims that you mean a lot to them, you have to do some swift translation. What they're really saying is: you mean something to me (for which you may now feel blessed), but, naturally, your significance does pale next to my powerful and sincere preoccupation with myself."

[vonsalome]

"For the record, and i know you will all howl with laughter, but our relationship really wasn't that bad. Our sex life was good (even better for her obviously!), we had a nice gouse, holidays etc and we didn't row. For some reason though it obviously wasn't enough and she thought there was better out there for her."

 

I'm sure you thought your relationship wasn't bad but she probably did and said nothing. Not your fault! Like I said she just isn't prepared to communicate. The fact that you didn't row makes me feel more strongly her overiding desire was not to communicate.

 

 

Your relationship probably was really good, but I think cheaters often become "revisionist" of a relationship's history once they cheat and decide to leave for the new person because they have to justify their behavior to make it okay for themselves that they cheated. She wants to pin some reason on you so she doesn't have to feel as bad about herself for hurting you and your daughter. So all of a sudden she wasn't "happy" that whole time and you aren't good enough blah blah blah. I would be skeptical of anything that comes out of her mouth.

 

The truth is, she left a perfectly good relationship because she is selfish, cowardly, passive-aggressive (e.g., noncommunicative) and doesn't know what she wants. She may seem happy, but she'll never be happy because these are deep subconscious, emotional patterns. Just wait until the bloom is off the rose in this new relationship. Though she may put up a front for you because of pride - she won't want you to see that the new relationship is starting to fail or be less than "perfect" - keep that in mind.

[SadAndy]

thanks for your view. You totally agree with my thoughts.

I have (or think i have) finally worked out exactly what she is as yesterday when i asked her why she done something that she was banged to rights on, her reply was 'supernatural forces' invaded her body!

 

I would love to think that deep down she knows shes wrong but i think i will just have to accept she isn't who i thought she was andquite possibly has some 'issues'.

 

Another thing about our 'bad' relationship (which honestly wasn't and I think your reply sums it up perfectly) was that when she was found out, it was only then that she stated that she 'probably should have ended it a while ago' and that she 'would turn the clock back if she could'. Funny how she only thought that when she had been caught!

 

A nasty woman.