50 year old suddenly acting like a teenager... wth?

[DN]

There are many issues of culture that people have an absolute right to discard if it isn't working for them - this isn't a matter of selfishness, law, ethics or morals. It is about an individual making decisions in his own best interests when the people he had to consider as children are now adults.

 

Too often people are constrained by cultural pressures to do things they don't want to - and kudos to him for refusing to conform when he doesn't agree. This applies as much to subsidising adult children capable of making their own living as it does to issues like arranged/forced marriage, manner of dress and marital obedience/discipline. If people want to conform - then good for them. But if they don't then it isn't for others to criticise them as being selfish or inconsiderate.

[misssmithviii]

Even when the father has been planning for years to help his son make his dreams come true, then just ditch those plans without explanation?

 

My father has a principle that as long as I do my upmost, my best - he helps me. But if I don't work hard, he won't. I'm not sitting there whining about it, it's reasonable. My man can only do so much, his best (our best) will only get us so far but regardless of how hard my man works (and he has been working for his dad since he was 13, making his own money) his father has no inclination to give his son the opportunity to pursue his dreams - even though he had previously said he would do so.

 

I believe when you're that age, you've lived your life, you've accomplished many of your own relatively selfish dreams - to deny your son the help that you once had, is selfish in itself.

 

In the racing world, you cannot just practice on the streets, you can't just go around racing - not only is it dangerous but it's illegal. We did that before, but we're at the age that we want to do something more - especially since the day that we did go on the track, he beat cars that are seemingly impossible to beat for what we had. Going to the track is the future - the dad used to help with exhausts, motors, tires, and promised to stick around. The pocket change he has is more than enough; the money we'd have to come up with in order to stay competitive is his extra pennies.

So who's selfish here when the dad did promise? When the dad has turned his back on the family? Once again, I know there's nothing to change this behavior - but even my own father cannot agree with how irrational it is and how mean he has to be to everyone about it, gloat about his riches and shove it our faces that he want to make his cars faster etc etc (which I wonder why his sudden change in personality is being overlooked).

[DN]

I am not convinced - it is his money and he can do with it as he wishes. No one else is entitled to it (other than the government and that is a whole different subject).

[misssmithviii]

I'm only slightly confused why that is the only subject regarding his father you have addressed. The money is only a small part of it, like I said before - it's a futile argument to presume we can change his mind and make him keep his promises (which if that isn't an issue of morals than I don't know what is, I thought keeping your word was important), we only wanted to truly understand how a man could change his personality so drastically in such a negative way.

 

I already described his behavior, how rude and unreasonable he has become - but yet the lack of morality is overlooked. I take it by your silence in this matter that you agree with such behavior? I know for as long as I live I will give my daughter a good life, I will help her in any way I can to uphold the honor of achievement in our family name and especially if I have ample resources to do so - she will learn to work hard, but as my father did to me, she will know I will only help above and beyond what she cannot yet afford herself.

 

I already understand the father's irrational behavior and have received one productive input regarding how the father could've switched personalities so drastically...

[getbiii]

the issue isn't only his money but his ethics and emotions towards his family... it is his own money and can always do with it what he pleases but he has already had a lot of money his life and now decided to flip... so this is more about the way he acts than the money itself.

[annie24]

do you think it is possible that he is cheating? that he has met someone new and is lavishing his time and attentions on her? i wouldn't be surprised if she is your age.

 

you said that you and your bf and your daughter live with his mom? if you three rented a 2 bedroom place in SoCal instead, I would presume that rent would be at least $2000-$3000 a month. at the very least. so you could argue that by them letting you live there rent free, they are doing you guys a huge financial favor already.

[misssmithviii]

We actually initiated paying rent at the mom's house (where we used to live for free) so as to feel like we're contributing with the house. We have one of the master bedrooms there and we'll be paying $600/month as well as buying our own food, etc. His mother is more than happy to help us out and has no qualms against us - she is very supportive both emotionally and financially. I feel like some people have gotten the impression that we're whining for something that's not ours - we are not demanding in any way, in fact we enjoy working and paying for what we can. The whole issue with money was merely that his father had previously promised to help his son get involved in the legal racing world since he is so talented, but it seems like now he is jealous that his own son can beat him now, and he refuses to help now.

 

I haven't thought of that but you're right... it does seem very likely that the father could be cheating now... that's a gut-wrenching idea since they were so happily married for so long ugh. One of the fights the mom and dad got into one time was indeed over another girl who's younger that the mom isn't comfortable with... and that girl DOES live in the Lake Tahoe area...

 

... almost fits together now doesn't it?

[annie24]

Yeah, i think very well that he might have something going on with that younger girl in lake tahoe. makes sense to me.

 

Still, $600 a month for rent in Malibu, CA is dirt cheap. $600 a month is about what you pay for a 1 bedroom apartment in the midwest!! I imagine if you guys had to get your own place in malibu for the 3 of you, it would cost bare minumum of $3000 a month, no utilities. I think that you guys are still getting a huge financial subsidy from his family, even if the dad isn't directly paying money into the racing thing.

 

and now to sound critical for a second, but is there a gauranteed return on his money if he invests in his son's racing career? he's a businessman and knows where the safe return is and where it isn't. Racing is different than paying for your son to go to medical school, where it's pretty positive that he'll be making a 6 figure salary within a few years after graduation. Racing seems like more of a toss-up, and he might not get back his return. my 2 cents....

[misssmithviii]

It's ok, I appreciate your input. What is off-putting is more of the fact that he had prepared and made plans to help with his son (my bf's) career in racing; especially with the uncanny talent he has. His father was into racing when he was younger and had his own auto shop - it seems like before his son became faster than him he was supportive, now he refuses although he had it planned out. If it were regarding a return on his money, I doubt he would've planned it out in the first place. It's alright, it just hurt a lot to have his own father become so distant, nearly competitive and go back on his word. He never used to be that way, that's why it's so shocking.

 

In the racing world, it's almost guaranteed you'll get money - especially with sponsors. The couple times my man was able to go on the track, people were amazed, the old-timers who had been there a long time with fully-built cars couldn't beat my man in his stock '86 corolla with only snow/ice tires on it (not the sticky racing compound tires they had). He beat supras, lotus' and awd subaru's with people who have been doing this longer behind the wheel. When his dad saw this, he immediately wanted to soup-up his old Porsche and race again... this time without helping his son to get on the track too.

 

That's a little more in-depth. So, it's more probable that there will be a return in money. Even so, his dad has a $70,000 M5 BMW that he refuses to drive, a 540 BMW, outback subaru, '79 911 Porsche, a toyota FJ cruiser, two Harley Davidson's, and an old checker cab. And he's still making more interest a month than a job would give. That's why it seems selfish and mean that he'd promise his son so much, only to change his mind once his son has actually gotten good...

[annie24]

How old is your boyfriend? I really don't know what his dad is like (I'll take your word for it that he's being a jerk) but if he's over 21, maybe his dad just wants to make him work for it himself? you know, not give everything to him on a platter. maybe he thinks this will build character? the fact is that his parents did work for decades and that is their money to spend how they see fit, not paying for things for their adult children.

 

I was right, 2 bedroom apartments in malibu are about $3000 a month. So, if you are only paying $600 a month, you are saving $2400 a month by living with the parents/mom. over the course of the year, that is $28,800. His parents are helping you guys out quite a bit, instead of making you get your own place, etc. $30,000 is a pretty generous yearly gift, i think you and your boyfriend should consider that money towards his career. I pay $850 for a 1 bedroom, and i live alone in the midwest! 3 people, $600 is a steal. be grateful.

 

it sucks that the dad rescinded on the offer to pay for the racing, but if your bf is as good as you say he is, i have no doubt he'll make it to the top, but it will probably take extra time.

[misssmithviii]

Thank you, and yes my bf is 21.

 

You are right, we are definitely receiving quite a bit - unfortunately I did not want to focus on the money in this post so as to not come off like that's all we cared about. It is quite traumatic for my bf to see his parents apart, and understanding his dad's behavior has helped give my man closure. Having someone say they'll help you achieve your goals for years, then take back the offer is quite cruel IMHO. If his father wanted to 'build character' (which I agree with) then why would he have promised this for so long? I think it's a bad example of character on his dad's part honestly

 

But thank you, we are now making plans of our own financially to get my man to the track. Each day there costs about $1,000 for entry, tires, parts and maintenance Ah!

[abitbroken]

If your boyfriend is talented like you say, then he should be able to get things without his dad. The help your dad can give is by introducing him to people, but once an intro is made it is up to him to prove himself. You don't need a car to start - you need someone who wants you to drive for them. And then maybe you work your way up to getting a car. If he put away some of his earnings to get a car - it will be money honestly earned. saying that "dad won't help" is an excuse because you make your own luck.

 

At some point you have to stop justifying certain things by saying "in my culture" like we can't understand or it somehow explains or justifies behavior. If you were a part of a rainforest tribe with very unusual traditions, that point is valid. Parents of many children - whether they identify with a certain culture or not wish they could endlessly provide or they push their children to achieve their goals. Not every family does but there are many.

 

To me, the best thing the father can do is to not "help" his son in the way your guy thinks. Advice is one thing, but at a certain point he needs to mature and grow up. Parents of some "cultures" may provide for their kids, but then they leave the nest, get married and start families of their own and they are the head of the roost. I am not saying you two have to get married but sometimes nowadays kids just don't leave the roost - married or not - and keep hanging around. He is not disabled or have another reason why his parents have to support him.

 

I think its healthy to be moved out. Also, I think that you don't HAVE to live in Malibu. You could live on the outskirts or further away where its cheaper and you can sock away some money for your futures.

 

The parents seemed to have made their fortunes by hard work and long hours and some smarts - so don't think its selfish that the father is not going to give his son things on a silver platter.

[misssmithviii]

With all due respect, I am wondering if you have read anything in between - once again, I say that in no offense. Simply because there is information that I have given that you have overlooked.

We will be paying $600 (as initiated by us) to live there, and it is the house that we have lived in before. Any other place on the outskirts or where ever would cost more. In that regard we are being given a beautiful opportunity.

 

This isn't a debate of monetary needs - it's a confusion as to how a father can make promises to his son (promises to do things/pay for things that the son would not be able to do so easily on his own) then suddenly take them all back. It's the underlying psychology of his father (especially since he has given no reason to date of why he went back on his word of years) that we have been curious of.

 

When I mentioned culture, I was speaking also of the morals and values behind culture. His father was supportive, then took it all back, once again emotionally as well as financially.

 

As for racing on the track - the only way you can get into that world successfully is by physically going to the track yourself. Track racing teams don't run around illegally racing to look for teammates. They look for drivers on the track who are amazing, who set new records, who beat their own teammates. A day at the track costs $1,000 for entry, maintenance, parts and most importantly, tires. In fact, a good set of tires can amount to nearly $1,000 easily.

His father comes around bragging about spending $10,000 on his old Porsche but has no more inclination to help his son make a name for himself at the track. Sure there are other ways to accomplish this that will take much, much longer and will take a lot of money - but that's the thing, once again, his father promised, then took that promise away... even though it is mere pocket change to him.

[annie24]

just a thought - does his dad like you? i'm sure he couldn't have been pleased when you moved into the house with your daughter (i'm guessing that your bf isn't the biological father?) maybe this is his way of expressing his anger/upset with his son - by not paying for the dream?

[misssmithviii]

His dad is very closed off - ever since I met him, and trust me, I did think it was me. When I asked my bf he said he'd been this way before I met him. His dad made these promises frequently over the years without ever following through, and it's gotten to the point where when my bf asks about the promises/plans, his dad simply ignores him or tell him literally that he just doesn't care.

 

Ever since his dad bought the house in Lake Tahoe is when he started becoming more distant and began withdrawing from every promise he made.

[annie24]

ok, then maybe he does have a new young gf up in lake tahoe and would rather wine and dine her and buy her expensive hand bags rather than help out his son? i dunno. i'd be really careful what you talk with bf's mother about.

[misssmithviii]

I don't initiate the conversation with his mother ever - but when she's having a hard time and vents to me about it, wants some outside input (once again we're close), sometimes I'm at a loss of what to say because I fear nothing I say will remain respectful, no matter how nicely put.

[annie24]

yeah, it's hard to know what to say, it's not a good situation.

 

when i was about 20/21, many of my friends' parents got divorced. i think it was a combination of the marriage being on the rocks for a long time and the kids were finally grown up and out of the house.

[Miss Firecracker]

In the racing world, it's almost guaranteed you'll get money - especially with sponsors.

 

It's also highly likely you will be killed or disabled.

 

I believe his father has a right to change his mind when it comes to HIS money. Very likely he has a reason he doesn't want to reveal to you or his son. Maybe he doesn't have a lot of faith in this venture. If he's a millionaire, I'd trust his business decisions.

 

As for whether he is cheating, that's also his business. I think you should be more concerned about yours and your boyfriend's relationship and stop thinking about the guy's father so much.

[abitbroken]

Yes, I did read what you said.

 

When i talked about the cultural thing I was meaning that you seem to be obligating the father to help the son because that is what is done in that culture. I think what other posters had said about the father maybe not wanting to put the money in the son because he feels the venture is not a good idea is something to think about. Parents don't have to blindly support what their children want to do. And even if $1,000 a day is chump change, the father may feel its a very bad investment. People who are millionaires didn't get that way by dishing out money. They are very shrewd with it.

 

If the father is not supportive - or merely is not really interested in what his son is doing, then instead of being upset about it, he has to make his own way. He doesn't HAVE to spend $1,000 a day to have a job. To afford that, he can get a regular job and put aside the money to be able to spend that $1,000 a day. People go back on their word. it happens. He has a choice whether to feel cheated or get a fire under his butt to make his own way in life.

 

Then, you guys won't be so affected by what the father does and doesn't want to do. Any assistance would be a bonus rather than feeling its owed.

 

I guess i learned based on the experiences with my ex is to not get involved in family dramas. he would say how bad so and so is treating him and then when i started forming that opinion, it bit me in the butt. People thought the opinion was something I started and I was the problem in the family. The issue is not between you and the dad. its between the mom and the dad or the son and the dad. You can be supportive or an ear to your boyfriend without encouraging a further rift.

 

As far as the mother, communicate with her. Tell her that you care deeply about her, but that you don't know what to say. It is hard for you to hear about possible cheating, etc. Suggest counseling, etc., because you are too close to the situation and don't want to get in the middle and feel it is a private matter. Be supportive of her by cooking for her, helping her with stuff or easing things for her instead.

[misssmithviii]

@Miss Firecracker: I appreciate your advice and insight - however it seems unlikely that would be the reason over jealousy since he was so supportive before and ever since his son became an amazing driver, his attitude changed towards him. His father spends thousands on his own cars and enjoys racing along regular roads; if anything he was always saying how it's dangerous and how you should really get on the racetrack if you want to go anywhere. (Once again, the promise he went back on in financially supporting his son to go to the track).

 

@abitbroken: I do not get involved at all. The conversations I have are with my man alone. When his mother vents to me, I listen and encourage as much as I can without being disrespectful or saying anything out of line/that's not my business. I really appreciate the warning however, you're right - I need to be careful, especially when his dad is around. I've been keeping my mouth shut and I need to continue to do so (so hard though!).

His father is very much a car-guy who loves racing (whether legal or not really) and has always related to his son in this passion. That's why it smells so much like jealousy that once his son became a very good driver - enough to beat his own father - he suddenly changed attitudes towards helping out, knowing full-well it's nearly impossible to get into the legal racing world without monetary assistance.