Being flat-chested and dating

[Lucius]

Haha, beautiful post, ToV. I won't argue the point further; as you yourself noted, our positions differ only slightly - and mostly in tone, not content.

 

It's not that I think "jerks" don't exist, or even that "shallowness" does not exist. I do. I'm human, I have an ego, and I perceive - and it's on this level, the ego level, that such distinctions DO exist. What I AM getting at is that recognizing these things as impressions (based on our own values, needs, mood, current energy levels, etc) is different to recognizing them as some kind of "fact" - some thing independently true. And to suggest that wielding these false facts (which are true impressions) to label, dismiss, or deride is every bit as hurtful to the recipient of the title "shallow" as it is unnecessary. It's another part of the cycle - judgment and rejection feeding judgment and rejection. Words are powerful, and do carry connotations - intended or not.

 

So often I'll be here, roaming about, and see one poster railing at another for their shallowness (perhaps they prefer tall guys/younger women/assertive men/whatever). And I'll just think to myself: "Why let it bother you? It's not shallow - you're just hurt. And instead of seeking comfort where you'll find it, you're fighting bemused posters in a vain attempt to validate your wounded ego. After all, I'll bet if their "shallow" preference was a trait you possessed, you'd not be up in arms, blowing the trumpet of war!"

 

Let me leave it at this: folks might be better served identifying and pursuing that which makes them happy, rather than seeking out the opposite and waging a fruitless ego war.

[tiredofvampires]

After all, I'll bet if their "shallow" preference was a trait you possessed, you'd not be up in arms, blowing the trumpet of war!"

 

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing! Have a look at this poster:

 

I wish the person who lives for big cars, big breasts, and big screen TV's a happy life. And if he's happy with these values, as superficial (compared to others) as I find them, I am not passing judgment upon him. He has the curse of superficiality....So I'm repelled by his values.

 

 

 

 

 

"Big breasts", a "repellent" value to me?

 

I have BIG BREASTS!!!!

 

How I only wish that some "jerk" had gotten down on bent knee years ago, pulled out a big shimmery rock, and said, "Be my wife, I can't live without your buxom embrace."

 

To all else, sir, well-said, well-conceived, and I agree. *handshake*

 

 

 

 

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Moral of this story, OP: See? It didn't get me anywhere.

[BriarRose]

I don't think it's shallow just because a man would prefer larger breasts. We all have our physical preferences, ALL of us (fess up, folks). With that being said, many men also end up marrying women with small boobs and think their wives and gf's are beautiful. Everyone is different.

[sophie274]

Very interesting discussion, Lucius and TOV - thanks for sharing it with the rest of us!

 

TOV, I could not agree more with you, and have loved all your posts on this thread. Must spread the love on the rep counter, but in my heart I have given you 10,000 reps for these posts!

 

Lucius, please send a man like yourself my way (any brothers?). Thanks!

[Malakh]

Ok, here is my question to the ladies -> Let's say you only date men of type X. Then you happen to meet a guy of type Z. He is a very confident person with amazing sense of humor, well educated, good job, seems very nice and caring etc. He makes you laugh like nobody has in your entire laugh. He expresses his interest to date you. But he is not type X. What would you do now?

[FloraDora]

I think one of the problems with the superficiality argument is that people meet eachother because of an initial attraction. For example, I am attracted to taller men, if I met the perfect guy and he was shorter would I turn him away, of course not. I am not saying that makes me any better or worse than anyone else, it is just something I could get over.

 

The thing is, if I were at a party, and there was a tall guy and a short guy, I would be approach and attempt to get to know the tall guy because I would be initially attracted to him. If he turned out to have a horrible personality I would no longer be interested of course because I would not date someone ONLY for their appearance.

 

By the same token, say I meet the tall guy, we are married for several years, I am deeply in love with him, and then he loses his legs in an accident. Would I leave him because he is no longer tall? Of course not, I love him for who he is, not his height.

 

So, I think that as humans we naturally have a physical preference, and we are going to be drawn to people who have those traits. Some people place more importance on this, but it doesn't make them better or worse as people, it just makes it harder for them to find someone.

 

The handicap of having traits that don't appeal to the majority, height for men, large breasts for women, is that you are not going to meet as many people who can get to know and love you for more than those traits. While there are men who like flat chests-most men prefer larger breasts. These men will not pick me out of a crowd and attempt to get to know me. If they did, I would wager some would be willing to overlook my flatchest as I am a kind, generous, loyal person, but they never get to that point.

 

Being unattractive, or looking "different' than the cultural standard of beauty does not by any means make it impossible to find love, it just makes it more difficult.

[Malakh]

FloraDora, if you yourself have a preference for tall men then you should understand that just like you men also will have preferences. I really see nothing wrong with men going for women with nice breasts when women are going for tall men. It cuts both ways!!

[FloraDora]

Oh, I wasn't trying to imply that there is something wrong with men preferring larger breasts at all. I was just saying that a woman with small breasts or a shorter man will have more difficutly meeting people. That doesn't mean that men, or women, are shallow or mean it just means that biologically we are programmed to find certain things attractive.

 

It might not be "fair" to those of us that don't appeal to the masses, but life is not fair. That was my only point.

[midnightrambler]

i just had lunch with a woman that has nice breastes, she told me they are "all bra" and she wishes she had more for her husband and is thinking of implants.

[FloraDora]

Ok' date=' here is my question to the ladies -> Let's say you only date men of type X. Then you happen to meet a guy of type Z. He is a very confident person with amazing sense of humor, well educated, good job, seems very nice and caring etc. He makes you laugh like nobody has in your entire laugh. He expresses his interest to date you. But he is not type X. What would you do now?[/quote']

 

And to answer your question......I would date him! Generally, I am attracted to tall, skinny, dark haired men. In college I had several classes with a short, stocky, blonde man. In fact he was shorter than me. Intially I just saw him as a friend, but as I got to know him I fell for him. We dated for four years, and I consider him the love of my life.

 

That said, upon first meeting him would I have approached him and flirted? No....it took time for me to find him attractive.

[tiredofvampires]

Lucius, please send a man like yourself my way (any brothers?). Thanks!

 

Thank you, Sophie, for your really sweet and kind words! I didn't think it'd get so involved, but it was a great discussion!

 

And ditto, with this comment @ Lucius. They don't crank out many like that.

 

Ok' date=' here is my question to the ladies -> Let's say you only date men of type X. Then you happen to meet a guy of type Z. He is a very confident person with amazing sense of humor, well educated, good job, seems very nice and caring etc. He makes you laugh like nobody has in your entire laugh. He expresses his interest to date you. But he is not type X. What would you do now?[/quote']

 

When you say, "type", it's hard for me to figure out what all that encompasses. I guess you mean strictly speaking, a certain physical type with many different things outside of my "ideal"? Like, my ideal is a tall, slender man with dark hair (same as the OP). But if a guy was tall and had dark hair, but had a bit of pudge, would you consider that "not my type"? Or a tall, slender man with blond hair? Or just a tall man, but a bit pudgy and blond? How many traits are we talking, for him not to be my "type"? A person's "type" is a combination of many different traits.

 

Which is one reason I feel pretty flexible in my tastes. You could mix it up a lot and still end up being overall "my type". Because while he may not have height, he may have the dark eyes and hair that get my motor running (and this was the case with a guy I cited earlier in the thread that from the very first sighting, my heart was spazzing out -- he was about 5' 4" and I'm 5' 6.5") I would call that man "my type" even though he wasn't tall. He was so my type in other ways, I found his physique sexy for all it was. See what I'm saying?

 

I've dated: a tall, thin man who was blond. A short, stocky guy with blue eyes (and no hair, he was in the military -- and I love lots of hair). A short, blond, muscular guy. Lots of short guys in my life, many more than tall. I've been attracted to men (but didn't date them) who were on the heavier side. So it's been a motley crue, to be sure.

 

So the answer to your question is yes, in a flash. If the interactive chemistry was right and he had a few features that I found attractive, especially facially, all the other "type" preferences would go to the wayside.

 

I'm a going to state this again: Everyone has preferences, including me. It's just that I don't take any one body part in isolation and determine based on that, especially if a person has many more attractive features. Even if they have a few. I mean, they have to have a few attractive turn-ons for me to feel they're dating material, yes, so the sum total of everything has to add up. But that involves a complicated equation of their features + their expressions + their mannerisms + their "energy" + the quality of interchange we have. None of those parts operate in isolation as a sole determinant, and each is a whole slew of elements in itself.

[FloraDora]

Seriously, I have been thinking and thinking about it......I have the money, I am healthy, the risk of not detecting breast cancer due to implants has been shown to be negligible, and I do not have the "breast cancer gene" anyway.

 

I am tired of not being able to wear clothes designed for an adult woman, I am tired of feeling boyish, I am tired of having to wear high necked dresses and shirts, and when I think about it I really dont' care if someone judges me for my life choices. I am going to get implants!

[midnightrambler]

 

the gift that keeps on giving

[FloraDora]

Ha ha! Gift to myself that is......

 

and I hope so!

[tiredofvampires]

You make some good points, Flora. I agree that we gravitate towards what we are most attracted to first.

 

However, I've found that in fluid social situations, it's not usually as simple as me making a bee-line towards the guy who I find more attractive. Usually, like at a party, I'm standing next to someone and get into a conversation, organically. If that's a tall guy, it's a tall guy. If that's a short guy, it's a short guy. And as we are interacting, I start to feel drawn to, or not drawn to, this person. If he makes me laugh and has a good vibe to him, isn't overly flirtatious but is making good eye contact and seems interesting and good-hearted, I don't look accross the room and think, "Well, but there's a cute guy who's taller, so maybe after this discussion I can test out the other guy's conversational skills and see." I start to kind of get interested in the guy in front of me, who has been talking to me.

 

And then I take it from there.

 

That's how it usually goes for me. So it's a lot of chance and just luck, and proximity and the spur of the moment taking it's course, not me hunting down the dark-haired tall man. If he's placed naturally in front of me and we get talking, WOW...but that doesn't present itself so often.

 

So with the way I mix with many types of people, I'm bound to get talking to someone who isn't my pre-fabricated ideal, and yet there stands a good potential there.

 

I think it's very much the same with men and boob size. If a man finds your company good and you're wearing feminine clothes that emphasize your best features, and have a nice, lively, friendly look about your face...a guy won't be focusing on your chest. If he is....see all my last posts.

 

And actually, if you look in the Sex forum here, you'll find many dozens of threads about boob size, and at least according to eNA, most men do not prefer big boobs. They either prefer modest size boobs, smaller boobs, or are "butt men" and could care less about boobs. I've yet to see my women friends with the tiny boobs have dating trouble. I'm the one that does, and mine are any guy's idea of a decent rack. You'd be surprised how many men find small breasts cute and erotic (also, I live in a state where many women are Asian, and they are mostly flat-chested. I even know one who is now a huge porn star, she moved away from here...and she hasn't gotten implants. Men are gaga over her, and women like her, especially here.)

 

Edit: I would find clothes that fit your body, not find a body to fit your clothes. But that's just me.

[Siriana]

I also wouldn't use enhancement when dating. I am the same size you are, and I never did the padded bra thing. Take it or leave it was always my view. There are a lot of men that wouldn't want it, but there are just as many that could care less.

 

 

yes, that's a good advice.

i would do the same.

After high school I stopped using push ups...I simply find it well....stupid and unnecessary. I have a normal, slightly wired bra with cups (so that my nipples don't show lol) and that's it. It is better to put emphasis on you good points (which I am sure you have) and to ignore the ones that are not your best assets.

I am US 34a.

Guys don't care that much about breasts.

[FloraDora]

I think the spectrum of what men find attractive regarding boobs is pretty flexibe. The problem is I have NO boobs. When taking birth control pills, am a AA cup.

 

I don't plan on getting giant, basketball implants. I am a thin woman, and I think it would look ridiculous and probably cause stretch marks. I just want a B cup. I think that would fit my figure and give me some confidence.

 

It is not that I have trouble in the dating department, I am currently single but have had several long-term, happy relationships, it is just that it bothers me not to have body parts that are part of the defining characteristics of womanhood.

[DaBladeRoden]

Well one problem is that while there are men who don't like small breasts, theres also a lot of men who don't like implants. So getting bigger breasts may not be a solid gain to your dating pool, it could just be more of a trade off of what sorts of men will be more attracted to you.

[FloraDora]

True-but I bet the numbers are pretty even, meaning I will probably appeal to the same number of men. Also, men can tell I have no breasts and instantly not be attracted to me, but as long as I keep the size proportionate to my frame, they will not instantly know that I have implants. Hopefully by the time they are squeezing my boobies they will know my personality, values, attitute, etc.

 

Also, even if I am not attractive/appealing to a significantly larger number of men, at least I will be able to wear cute clothes and be more confident!!

[sns256]

Good on you Flora! I will say for me the size of a woman's breasts are in no way for me to judge attractiveness. It just doesn't matter at all to me. You should be happy with who you are when you walk out the door. If getting breast implants will make you feel that much more confident, sexy, and can wear the clothing you want to. Go for it!

 

Now implants are not my favorite things either, but you can't tell at all when you have your cloths on. And if you have your cloths off in front of a guy, hopefully they should already appreciate you as a person. And won't give a poop anyway. Good luck!

[tiredofvampires]

Hopefully by the time they are squeezing my boobies they will know my personality, values, attitute, etc.

 

And if you have your cloths off in front of a guy, hopefully they should already appreciate you as a person. And won't give a poop anyway.

 

And I say, this is precisely the same argument for NOT get implants, and coming as you are -- not padding yourself up (unless you must have a particular blouse and feel it makes the clothing hang better), not altering yourself, but presenting yourself as yourself and letting the ones who don't like it fall by the wayside.

 

That way, you find the guys who will AUTOMATICALLY already be appreciating you "as a person" not as a set of teats (read: this is a major bonus, as a filter, I'm not sure you see the asset here!!), and you won't run the risk of a guy who has come to like "you for you-with-implants", who then faces the plastic, hard texture of implants every time he is intimate with you and is turned off from that. In one situation, you'll have to "get past" his initial reactions seeing you with clothes, but once you get past that, you're home free. In the other case, you'll have to "get past" his second impression, which to me is the more enduring one, because that's when your body is up-close-and-personal, as part of intimacy on a regular basis.

 

And it's far cheaper and less chance of botches and risks. If you're saying, "By the time he's squeezing my boobies, he'll love me for me" it just proves all that I've been saying here as the take-home message, only without the surgical risk/solution. Not sure why that argument falls flat (no pun intended) in the case of leaving your body alone, but in the case of implants, it becomes more viable.

 

Not to belabor, just wondering aloud is all.

[SometimesShy]

even if I am not attractive/appealing to a significantly larger number of men, at least I will be able to wear cute clothes and be more confident!!

 

...If you do get them, get them for yourself. It's your body, your life, who cares what anybody else thinks!

[Taikero]

To me, a woman with implants raises substantial red flags. I immediately think of her as either narcissistic or having extensive self esteem issues. I suppose this is due to the women I know with implants. They all seem to have one of those two traits in my experience.

 

I also care more about proportion and shape than size when it comes to breasts. Often, a D size or higher is usually too much and out of proportion for most women who have them, and it causes health problems and unsightly stretch marks to boot!

 

But then I also prefer women who wear little makeup. I like being around those who are comfortable with their bodies as they are and don't feel they need to hide behind eyeliner, mascara, or in the case of breasts silicone.

 

I would advise you against implants. Much like tattoos, they stay with you permanently and later on many who get them regret doing so. Further, there are many risks involved with implants, no matter what size you might choose. Surgery should be avoided at all costs IMO unless you have a severe need for it.

 

Granted, my opinion is one of many, and while implants aren't a dealbreaker for me I would be SEVERELY worried about the mental and emotional state and wellbeing of a woman who has implants.

 

That said, don't hide who you are. If after appropriate time and thought you recognize the significance of what getting breast implants will have in your life and the changed perception for better or worse others will have of you, and you've come to the decision you really need to alter your body permanently from what you are now to be happy, then go for it. If you find yourself uneasy about it, I would hold off or forget it entirely unless at some point you are 100% sure you want to carry through with it.

 

Best of luck with whichever course you take.

[erase this face]

...If you do get them, get them for yourself. It's your body, your life, who cares what anybody else thinks!

 

And why do women undergo such a process - to look [what they perceive as] better around others. To feel confident around others.

[FloraDora]

I agree that implants can be problematic....but I have friends who are very happy with theirs and are not mentally imbalanced and insecure.

 

I am at least going to look into it more and not automatically rule it out. Like I said, I don't want perfect breasts, or giant breasts, I just want breasts. Anything would be better than being flat as a board.

 

As far as my flat-chest being a "filter" to weed out the bad guys...first of all I would argue that a guy who wasnt' attracted to a woman with no breasts is not a "bad" guy. Honestly, I wouldn't want to date a man with no penis. If I was already in love with him and he developed a medical condition, etc. then I would deal, but I would already be in love with him at that point. Men like breasts, of all sizes, I would not say that a guy who wants to date a woman with some breast tissue is a undatable.