I really just don't understand :(

[LillyLooWho]

CAD, I see you have a point, but do you really think that they keep us around purposely just for their ego? I don't see the point in that. I can see it if they still like us as a person, or they are unsure, or they want a backup. That makes sense to me, but just for ego? That seems like a lot of work just to get keep someone hanging around for no other reason than just to feel good about themselves. I guess I am naive.

[coolchick64]

Yeah, there's a lot of talk on here about the dumper's ego boost, but I don't buy it. First of all, this forum is filled with dumpees trying to figure out what to do. Few people are posting here if they’ve been successful, or even if they’re the dumpers. From the dumpee perspective it might seem like an ego thing, but I've been the dumper and done that stuff and it was always because I wasn't sure. The whole idea that pushing the dumper reveals their true intentions might be the case, but here's another interpretation: maybe they're hanging on because they're unsure, and when the dumpee says, leave me alone, they figure the door is closed and let go at that point. There's certainly no incentive for them to hang on in that situation, even if they were 100% sure. And if they're not 100% sure, it's gonna seem like too much work. Granted, it’s more like than not that they were never coming back anyway, but there’s no way to know for sure if you force the issue too soon.

 

I think a time does come when you have to put your foot down to protect yourself, but you need to do that knowing you're probably ending it for good, not because you think it's going to motivate them to show their hand. That doesn't mean be a doormat, and there's a time and place for NC in the mix, but that's different from telling someone to put up or shut up. If there was ever a chance for reconciliation, that’s gonna kill it.

[Sorrento]

There are a lot of ways of looking at a lot of things. To be honest, every situation (related to me) before this has always so so 'black and white' that I've never even had to thing of any other angles.

 

I truly believe my ex is hurting from this too. He has said it to me, to his friends, but mostly I can tell from how he is around me. Maybe he is now not speaking to me because he truly believes our relationship cannot work and is therefore trying to let me heal as well as himself. I don't know this because we haven't had a proper conversation about what it means if this really is the end. He once snapped at me a couple of weeks ago stating "I think its obvious our relationship is over" when I asked how he was...turns out that was because he had called just after a big meeting and was really wound up. I ended the conversation and he said he'd call me on his way home....which he did and launched straight into an apology for what he said and how he snapped.

 

I'm trying not to think the worst here (i.e. he's found someone else to talk to/see/date andthats why I am now getting silence) but its difficult right now. More than anything I want to call him and ask why silence now after all this time? But part of me is mentally digging my heels in.

 

If the silence continues on and after my birthday on the 24th then I will know something is definitely wrong. In which case, I will just call and thank him for ending it in such a cowardly way and that will be that. Only time will tell, much as it drives me mad!!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

CAD, I see you have a point, but do you really think that they keep us around purposely just for their ego? I don't see the point in that. I can see it if they still like us as a person, or they are unsure, or they want a backup. That makes sense to me, but just for ego? That seems like a lot of work just to get keep someone hanging around for no other reason than just to feel good about themselves. I guess I am naive.

 

Yes, many of them do indeed do that. This board is littered with broken hearted dumpees who thought their poor ex was just confused, needed time etc only to find out that the ex wasn't at all confused, they just wanted a backup plan while they played the field, test drove a new person etc.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Yes, someone can be unsure..but when they start saying I love you, and want to spend time with you when THEY are calling the shots and the minute you initiate contact with them they do the silent treatment or moodiness then something is wrong with that picture. This is what the OP is facing and this is what many many people on the board have faced..the dumpee is not PERMITTED to initiate contact OR ELSE they will be met with coldness...HOWEVER, if the minute the dumper initiates contact the dumpee must be bending over backwards and dancing a jig and be all nice and accomodating and just keep their mouth shut except for saying yes sir, no sir, whatever you say sir. THIS is what I am getting at...the dumper's so-called confusion is causing them to be selfish, rude, inconsiderate, and sorely lacking in empathy. Their integrity goes out the window and the longer it goes on, the more bold as brass they get. Lots of people before you weren't convinced either and spent lots of time on this forum arguing with posters who were trying to tell them that the person is jerking them around. Guess what, inevitably the poster found out the hard way that the people who were telling them the ex was jerking them around were indeed right.

[LillyLooWho]

The reason for the inequity is because the dumpee wants to get the dumper back. The dumper has something the dumpee wants. The dumpee can do whatever he/she wants to do at any time, right? They can walk away. They can get angry. But if they want to try to get them back, it becomes this delicate unequal thing. There is no way around it. It certainly isn't fair but it is the nature of the beast. It's like you are trying to lure them back and that takes a lot of patience and self-control (and putting your pride aside in many cases).

 

There are all kinds of people and many of them are not good people but I think the majority of people in relationships are honestly just trying to find love and be good to their partners. Are they selfish sometimes? Of course they are, we all are. So I think their reaction to our reaction to the breakup can be, at times, selfish for sure. But I don't think they keep us around just so they can be selfish purposely and pump up their ego. When they give mixed messages I think it is just that - they are mixed up. After awhile, the dumpee and the dumper move on or get back together. Sometimes dumpees look back and blame the dumper for stringing them along but I think that many dumpees fuel the contact more than they want to admit (myself included).

 

Probably the best thing to do when the dumper says they want to leave is to just let them go. Ideally, you leave them alone and see if they come back on their own. A lot of the time they don't, regardless of what we do. And of course when your heart is broken and you want this person more than anything, just letting go is like asking you to scale Mt. Everest. However if you do this (let them go), you avoid the whole ego boost scenario whether they do it on purpose or not.

[coolchick64]

LOL, Well, I may be new around here but I have lived a little! I guess you and I have to agree to disagree on the point about dumpers' motives.

 

But I really have to disagree strongly about what the dumpee is permitted to do. Dumpees can certainly choose to respond to contact with coldness. In fact, they can choose not to respond at all, to respond with anger, or to respond with an open mind . . . they have just as many choices as dumpers. The main difference is the dumper, having made the decision to leave in the first place, is much less likely to want to reconcile than the dumpee. So if you, as the dumpee, gear your responses toward that outcome, you're inherently taking a big risk. If that's not the outcome you want, though, you can do anything!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

LOL, Well, I may be new around here but I have lived a little! I guess you and I have to agree to disagree on the point about dumpers' motives.

 

But I really have to disagree strongly about what the dumpee is permitted to do. Dumpees can certainly choose to respond to contact with coldness. In fact, they can choose not to respond at all, to respond with anger, or to respond with an open mind . . . they have just as many choices as dumpers. The main difference is the dumper, having made the decision to leave in the first place, is much less likely to want to reconcile than the dumpee. So if you, as the dumpee, gear your responses toward that outcome, you're inherently taking a big risk. If that's not the outcome you want, though, you can do anything!

 

Yes, dumpees have freedom of choice..so do people who are in abusive relationships, so do employees who work for nasty bosses. We all have freedom of choice..but when your emotions are involved and the dumper knows what buttons to push to keep the person hopeful, the choice is often to ride it out...and that is what the dumper, who knows the dumpee well, is figuring will happen..which is why they dangle carrots. Bosses can be cruel in bad economies because they know the employee will stick it out rather than opting for unemployment. An abuser knows how to manipulate the partner by giving just enough love and affection before the next cycle of abuse. I guess we will indeed have to agree to disagree.

[LillyLooWho]

Dumpers are inherently abusers? I don't see it that way. I'm with coolchick. Agree to disagree.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Dumpers are inherently abusers? I don't see it that way. I'm with coolchick. Agree to disagree.

 

I didn't say they were abusers. However, they do indeed manipulate the dumpee when they dangle carrots and then pull them away the minute the dumpee grabs for the carrot.

[LillyLooWho]

Sorrento - how are you doing? Feeling any better? Did we all just confuse things for you? Lots of opinions on here.

[Tired Tiger]

I have not seen very many cases on this forum where a dumpee putting up with the wishy washy limbo crap of the dumper has a positive result.

 

Heh. Well...

 

Perhaps part of the problem is that there's a tendency to jump on the "vilify the dumper" bandwagon - especially within a group that is naturally dealing with the frustrations of not successfully reconciling. Plus, we normally only consider the one side (which would obviously be biased) of the story. To simply break it down as dumpee = poor victim and dumper = awful narcissist doesn't do justice to the complexity of many of these situations, or to human psychology in general.

 

As has already been mentioned, empathy can go a long way towards understanding why things are happening (along with compassion and patience). But hey... what do I know?

[Sorrento]

Oh, I have opened a BIG can of worms on here....! I think in honesty that every situation is different. I believe that some dumpers do it for ego reasons, some are genuinely mixed up, and some are so wrapped up in their own emotions that they do it selfishly. Its down to the individual really. I used to think my ex was genuinely confused because I 'know' him....but I realised this morning that I don't know him anymore...the man I know wouldn't give me the silent treatment, not ever.

 

I'm doing ok thanks Lilly. Just trying not to think at all. I think that actually he probably is walking away now. I know everyone says "oh its only been a couple of days" but 1. we have never ever not contacted everyday (apart from the 1 week NC which we both agreed was best) and 2. I called him on the monday evening and he has not responded at all, no acknowledgement whatsoever. So this makes me think that he is gone and is just grateful that I am not chasing (as he knows I won't).

 

Its hard. I've kind of mentally boxed up every thought and memory about him so I don't have to torture myself. I tried sneaking a peek in the box this morning and it was like being sucked into a black hole so for now it remains shut.

 

I have to face the fact that the likelihood of him coming back after this is slim to none. He would feel awkward trying to initiate contact after this obvious silence now he did forward me a joke email and my hopeful brain says "oh oh OH - maybe he was testing the waters to see if you were speaking to him" but to be honest, he could have just sent an email saying Hi and seen the reaction that way... That's why I ignored the hopeful brain and sent a forward joke back. Maybe I'm playing it all wrong but at the moment I feel kind of like I'm running up a waterfall, and sooner or later I will have to accept that its pretty much impossible to do

 

(sorry for the rant, I know its pretty melodramatic!)

 

On the plus side, I started a new course last night outside of work, and I really liked it

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Heh. Well...

 

Perhaps part of the problem is that there's a tendency to jump on the "vilify the dumper" bandwagon - especially within a group that is naturally dealing with the frustrations of not successfully reconciling. Plus, we normally only consider the one side (which would obviously be biased) of the story. To simply break it down as dumpee = poor victim and dumper = awful narcissist doesn't do justice to the complexity of many of these situations, or to human psychology in general.

 

 

As has already been mentioned, empathy can go a long way towards understanding why things are happening (along with compassion and patience). But hey... what do I know?

 

 

I am not saying all dumpers are bad. I am talking strictly in terms of the many dumpers who come back and "want to be friends" but on their terms only..and will make "I miss you, I love you" statements one minute and then totally ignore the dumpee the next minute. It is the "mixed messages" dumpers that I take issue with, not the dumpers who walk away and leave the dumpee alone or make it very crystal clear that it is over, no bogus friendship just time to move on. For many of the people who complain here, it is because the dumper comes back with "confusion" and "mixed messages" dangling all sorts of carrots and then pulling them away when the dumpee reaches for them. Of course those kind of dumpers should be villified because they are acting in a cruel, insensitive manner.

 

I will also say that more often than not when a break up happens due to the reasons of "I am confused"...The words "I am not sure" usually means "no" but they just want you hanging around for their benefit so they won't actuall say "no, it is completely over" because then they run the risk of you walking away and finding someone else. Most of the time "I don't know" now remains "I don't know" weeks and months later. The "I don't know" is the line used until the dumpee finally has had enough of limbo land.

[LillyLooWho]

Sorrento, things are not in the dumper yet! And you are not being melodramatic...Have you read some of these posts? Have you read mine!! We're all very upset, well we were when we posted our stories...some of us are getting better SLOWLY.

 

Sorry that me, CAD and CoolChick hijacked your thread! We have some opinions, but don't worry about the can of worms. That's what's so good about this forum - you say what you want, others say what they want, it makes you think, sometimes you disagree, it is all good for the brain to contemplate.

 

Now back to your story: it has not even been one week since he hasn't called. I know you feel really bad but if you want to try to get him back it involves patience, being uncomfortably in the vague zone for longer than you want, self control, and most importantly, letting him go. Not in a mean angry way, just in a "for now" way. He will come back if he wants. I know this concept drives Crazyaboutdogs crazy because it involves taking a passive stance but this is the gentle approach. Alternatively, you can tell him to go to hell and take your chances that he's come around post haste. Or you can genuinely move on. These are your choices right now. Not so good but it is what it is. Keep posting if you feel bad...

[Sorrento]

I know I'm sounding crazy, but the thing is, its not like we were in LC before. He would call every morning on his way to work, text and email all day, call throughout the day and evening....even when we were over, he still did this. And suddenly, having been fine on monday, I call monday evening and he has not responded at all. Nothing bar a stupid joke forwarded to me via email. Thats why I am saying that i think this is the end of the road.

 

I'm trying to remain positive but its hard. There is a guy who works in my building who I liked ages ago before my ex. Nothing ever came of it, we never even spoke to eachother. However, wednesday he emailed me saying hi and that he's seen me around. It was all very nice and I think he wants to take me out next week. He is away over this weekend, so we will see what happens. Thats kind of making me feel more positive... But at the same time I still miss my ex, and I just don't know why he has suddenly switched

 

I was thinking of waiting until my birthday next thursday and if I still haven't heard anything then I was going to write a letter. I'm unsure what sort of letter it should be, or what to even put in the letter to be honest. But I need to do something. I can't believe after everything he has suddenly just switched all his feelings etc off for me and is able to carry on merrily in his life without a care or thought for me. Its not like he said "We are done, and I dont think we should speak". The last things he said to me were he loves me but is too scared and that we should talk when we are completely sober. And now nothing at all?!

[BlueRizla]

I'm not one to be giving advice really.. I made every mistake in the book in my situation but you said he knows you will not chase.

 

Just do that. Dont send the letter. Leave him to do whatever he is doing if you can handle it. Letters dont work in the way you want them too. That I do know. From a guys point of view..if he wants to see you he will do something..believe me, he will. Until then you can only do yourself more damage.

 

I can see you are looking for answers and I guess thats how the letter will go. If he can do a 180 like this with no explaining do you think he will respond to your letter?

 

The birthday will be an acid test to see if he bites. If not I think you have your answer. It doesnt matter what he said about loving you and being scared.. it was disrespectful to cut you off the way he has. It would have to be a pretty heavy duty scare to cut off someone you love in this way. I know i couldnt do it if I loved someone unless they had been really abusive.

 

Let him work it out for himself until at least after your birthday. If the new possibility makes you feel positive then at least have a date and be upfront about where you are at. I'd love a date but its not looking like that is going to be anytime soon for me. Lots of folk on here seem to easily find dates when they split up and it really helps to get some perspective from what I read.

[Sorrento]

Ok - no letter then. I can't believe it. I never ever thought he would do something so cold. No final goodbye. No nothing. Just disappears out of my life. I think thats why I am so hesistant about what to do now. I feel like its gone "happy - break up - dating - break up - constant contact and acting like we're together - emotional conversation (where he said a lot of things he's never said to me before, not just about us but about himself etc) - nothing but silence. And I literally have no idea what happened.

 

The new possibility I honestly wasn't expecting either. I find it very difficult to date, I don't really ever get approached unless I show interest. So this is all very new to me. It's the old saying that it happens when you least expect it.

 

I would rather have had a conversation with the ex to be honest, about all of this. I am finding it difficult to let go because I feel like its still so undefined. If I need to move on, then fine, have no choice but to do that. But I feel like its unfinished business (not in a hopeful way, but in the fact that he was fine and just flipped on me...no anger, no sorrow, just nothing).

[BlueRizla]

It's definitely unfinished business and I think you will get a conversation at some point but right now for whatever reason (to him) it's the wrong time.

If you try to let it go (and again I'm not one to talk here at all) you will get the converstaion sooner than if you push. Either way I can see its not nice for you. You're forced into corner and you want to defend by writing to him. If you just have to contact him I would suggest a very short piece just asking why he left how he did.

 

My ex didnt know what was going on with me. She must have felt like you to some extent. I didnt bail but I had kept her in the dark. I said nothing for 2 weeks and then started the process of explaining. I came completely clean after a month when I got it right in my own mind. I handled it so badly and I lost her because of that. I regret it deeply. She didnt contact me once. I did all the running. Maybe there's a lesson in that for you. Say nothing and let his fear and maybe guilt rise to the surface.

 

I could theorize that he's too scared to talk and doesnt know how to handle it. That could mean an issue that you dont know about, or the worst, in that he isnt man enough to tell you he doesnt want to be with you. Would you want to be with a guy like that long term? I can see why my ex wouldnt want to be with me now. I dont blame her.

 

I see that not knowing drives you nuts. Its one of the worst things in life to come to terms with. It made me break NC lots of times and I had answers from her. With someone who is as unavailable as this guy seems to be there is nothing you can do.

 

Maybe he knows you wont chase and thats his get out of jail pass.

[Sorrento]

Thank you BlueRizla, I really appreciate your thoughts (as well as everyone elses here). I've been asking myself for so long now what my gut instinct is. My heart is too emotional at the moment and my brain is too defensive, and so I have been waiting for my gut to speak up. And I think it is today, saying "do nothing". Nothing whatsoever. Just wait and see how it pans out, and if something develops (with ex or without him) then I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

I just almost felt like a lightbulb went on above my head... I'm beginning to see the difference between letting go and giving up (I think). So thats nice. Stops the constant anxious feeling I have been having. I have no control over this at all. It is up to him. I can hope that he will realise/sort himself or his issues out in time before it all dies out, but I cannot live my life expecting that to happen.

 

Very sad and yet strangely almost happy at the same time. This break up stuff is getting weirder by the day. I just read something very helpful about how "jogging your memory" works (I struggle not to throw up when certain things are said/done because of my ex at the moment). Apparently, when you first associate something with something else (lets say A associated with B), a neural pathway is built between the two memories (A and B) stored in your brain. The more you use the pathway, the stronger it becomes, until you cannot think of A without thinking of B as well. The only way to break it is to consciously stop your brain going from A straight to B, therefore weakening the pathway. So thats my challenge for the weekend - delete a few pathways from my brain.

[waveseer]

Here's the bottom line. It is impossible to have a relationship with someone who will not communicate with you. Other people may not see this as an on or off thing the way I do, however, once communication is severed I feel any ties are also severed. If there will ever be a relationship again it will be a new one with a new agreement, not a continuation.

[BlueRizla]

Thank you BlueRizla, I really appreciate your thoughts (as well as everyone elses here). I've been asking myself for so long now what my gut instinct is. My heart is too emotional at the moment and my brain is too defensive, and so I have been waiting for my gut to speak up. And I think it is today, saying "do nothing". Nothing whatsoever. Just wait and see how it pans out, and if something develops (with ex or without him) then I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

.

 

I havent been able to listen to my gut recently..my heart has been beating too loudly and my brain shouting back. I can see it in my emails over the last 3 months. Heart felt to rational and back, and everything in between. My ex is probably now as confused as I am. I dont regret them as such..I was in a terrible place emotionally, but I do know I could have handled it all so much better. I dont care what she thinks now as its too late for that and she's gone forever but I do care what I think of myself and I have to keep trying to be nice to myself when I think of the mistakes I made. It takes alot of work..so dont go down that path if you can help it. It only takes one to start, then that can lead to two and so on. If you can handle the pressure and your gut is reliable then stay away. If you did send something then you would be joining the club so dont be too hard on yourself for wanting to or giving in.

[Sorrento]

Don't worry, its taken a while for my gut to speak up loud enough so my heart and head don't drown it out. Eventually, we all make a choice that is for the best. We may not see that straight away, in fact, we may not see it for years. All we can do is trust ourselves to know how to look after ourselves, and in the end, it will all be ok.

 

As I don't feel ready to make a decision (and haven't for the whole time this has been going on) I'm not going to decide anything. Its easier in a way at the moment because of his silence.... When he speaks to me I feel I have to make a decision. Now he isn't, I can let myself find my own way through it all.

 

I am lucky - I have a very close family and a lot of brilliant friends, as well as everyone on here who, even when their own hearts are shattered, still find enough within themselves to try and help others. I know all of us will be ok. Baby steps are the key.

 

Phew, I am in a very philosophical mood now (but I'm not going to knock it...its better than driving myself crazy about it all!)

[Lavender25]

I returned home after a family vacation that I took just a month or so after my breakup (off/on 7 year relationship). I was pretty much in pieces the entire time but I had the support of my family who were all willing to give me advice and help to put me back together. I didn't come back healed, but I did come back rested and in a better state of mind.

 

The day after I came back, I went to China King because I had been craving chinese food for weeks. Actually, I wanted to go to a different restaurant but I found out that it went out of business. Anyway, in walked a group of guys (I knew one of them), and we all started talking and now I have been dating one of those guys for about a month. I'm not saying it was "meant to be" or anything and I wasn't even thinking about dating at this point. It just kind of happened.

[LillyLooWho]

Sorrento, the reason it is not a good idea to send a letter is because first of all, you are too emotional and you may regret or be embarrassed someday by what you wrote. Not right away but eventually. Also if you write the letter in the hopes of provoking a response, you might be waiting a long time. He could read it and not respond. He could just throw it away without reading it. He could read it and respond in a way you weren't expecting. He might feel guilty. He might have pity for you (I would HATE this!). He might get angry. The point is that you have no idea what he will think, no idea if he even read it, and ultimately you may regret ever sending it. That's why I say don't send a letter. I know you said you weren't going to, but just wanted to express my opinion in case you change your mind.