Terribly worried about my friend

[annie24]

thanks batya. and it's beyond me how she can still stay with him, and talk to him, after everything. i mean, i think of you batya, how if you were on a date with a man (i know you are married now), but if you were out with a guy, and he started talking about other women's vaginas to his buddy in front of you, i can't even imagine how fast you would run away! it would be like in the cartoons when all that's left is a cloud of dust.

 

i just don't know how she can stay. she hopes so much, and i think she's afraid that this is her 'last chance' at love. her family is pressuring her for children. she's going to her MUCH young cousin's wedding in a few months, and is dreading going dateless. i told her, 'well, just tell them your bf couldn't get off of work.' she said she didn't want to lie.' i say, 'so what? you're single! tell them to be helpful and set you up with a man.' sigh.

 

yeah, i don't want to get sucked in. i don't know how she could find that 'funny' at all about the engagement rumors going on in the department. that is scary. i mean, he threatened to rape her!!!

[annie24]

and she knows he lies to her too. in my opinion, she is starting to cross boundaries too, but she says only because he is that way. like a few weeks ago, he had a lot of cat or dog hairs on his shirt. she asked him where he was. he said no where. she said, 'well, where did all those hairs come from?' he said perhaps from his martial arts class. well, you only get that much hair if you are sitting on someone's couch. so, the fact that he wouldn't tell her where he was, she knows that's a red flag. and she told me. i told her it's a bit over the top to be looking at hairs, but if she is, that it's certainly a red flag, you don't get that many hairs off of someone during martial arts fighting. he's likely lying or hiding where he was. (yes, he is an expert in martial art. )

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

I wouldn't worry about his lying or if he had been cheating. I would worry that he STALKS her and threatened to RAPE her. Aye.

[annie24]

yeah, the stalking is scary. at first it came off as 'cute' like him saying he was in the neighborhood and thought he'd come by and bring her some food. but breaking into the building in the middle of the night? sitting outside her door and knocking for 2 hours???? somehow, managing to show up in the nail polish section at the drug store????? like, ummm..... that is NOT normal.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

I'm sure you feel this way, too, but it seems like a horror lifetime movie. I am terrified that he has it in him to kill her. He sounds just SO off his rocker.

[Anotherday]

Annie, I've read through most of this thread. I don't understand how anyone anyone! could just sit and listen to men talk about the scent of Asian things. Shudders here. The guy sounds like a real class act, not to mention all of the other stuff I've read.

 

You seem like a great friend and don't feel bad that you just can't handle him. My worry, however, is that your friend will do what so many women do and take his side and cast you aside. That would hurt. Take care of you too in this whole situation.

[annie24]

so, i didn't talk to my friend for like 10 days because i freaked out. i just couldn't handle hearing the same thing about the bf, me sounding like a broken record, and him showing up. that on top of some other things that my friends are going through (another one was diagnosed with liver failure), and a lot of stuff at work, i just couldn't handle things anymore and i needed to take a break. after 10 days, i called, we chatted and i apologized for running away, but i told her that i sounded like a broken record, that i needed some space, and was feeling overwhelmed with everything in my life. she said that was ok, and now we were talking again.

 

we went out for dinner last night. It was ok, she had a hard day at work. she started crying halfway at dinner when the waiter brought her the wrong thing (she had her bike stolen that day). the waiter was completely confused. she went outside and cried, i told him not to worry, she was having a hard day. she perked up towards the end of dinner, and we were chatting about upcoming vacation plans, funny things that had happened, etc.

 

then, we went and got some coffee, and her bf called. since it was raining, he said he would drive me and her home. mind you, i didn't ask or anything, i just told her i want nothing to do with him, and i took the bus home. she started crying. i asked if she was going to get in trouble because i didn't want to go home with him, she said no. but she was crying and i couldn't make her stop. i told her i don't want to sound like a broken record, i can't make her do anything, but i want NOTHING to do with this man.

[Ellie2006]

I think you did the right thing, Annie. Because we love and care about our friends, we want to help them and be there for them, but ultimately, we cannot save them from a situation that they're a (willing) participant of.

 

I am so sad for your friend -- even if she did have a particularly trying day, her crying like that seems indicative of something that's probably apparent to you but maybe not to her ? -- so I can imagine how you feel but I think you did the right thing.

[avman]

You did the right thing Annie. You do not have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable. Your friend must make her own choices and if she chooses to stay with this man there is really nothing you can do about it. She must ultimately make the decision to break it off and if and when she does you can be there for her to help her.

[annie24]

i heard from her briefly tonight. she texted me to say she thinks i might be right. i called her and asked what happened. she didn't want to tell me. i asked if he hurt her. she said no. but that she was starting to 'get to the end of her rope' with him. which is good. i mean, i know she has said this like 30 times before.... but i'm hoping that rope is getting shorter and shorter... that she can break free of this hold he has on her.

[Siriana]

I think it was really smart of you to decline hanging out with him in any kind of a setting (even if it means a ride back home). Otherwise you wouldn't be able to send a consistent msg to your confused friend.

 

I did the same when my best friend was dating a married guy. Just the idea of spending any kind of time with him, while being so against her dating him, would made me feel like the biggest hypocrite ever.

[annie24]

UPDATE: i had dinner with her tonight, and it seems like she is over him. she said a few weeks ago, she met his family, they were in town. she said that his parents loved her, but that his brother cut into her right away. first thing he said when he met her in the parking lot was commenting on her crappy car (note - my friend drives a very nice clean car! a volvo!) next, he told her she should dye her hair blonde, as her current hair color is mousy. and then told her she needs to 'do something about her face.' my friend is very sensitive about her skin, she used to have bad acne, no longer does, but it's not perfectly smooth, but i think it looks just fine. in any case, these are not appropriate things to say to someone you meet for the first time!! or really ever!! and the guy didn't see anything wrong with what her brother said. in fact, he defended him when Kate went and told their mutual friend about what happened.

 

oh, and she told me other dumb stuff he said/did but my computer would overheat if i tried to type it all out. in any case, she seems to be moving on. i am really glad that she's getting over it. hopefully there is no backsliding!

[AkaHisBabess]

try to put it to her this way... it wont mater if hes sweet on his good days... tell her to put all the warm and fuzzies for a min and think of every controling manipulative and hurtful thing hes done then ask her if she wants that for the rest of her life and if her own worth as a person isn't enough insentive, dose she want her future children raised watching these actions? men like that wont change she just needs to decide if shes happy taking it. im very sorry for your friend i hope she finds her hapieness and im glad she has a caring friend.

[annie24]

yeah, she's not over him. i thought that things were over, when 2 weeks ago, they had a huge blow out and she told him to stop showing up at her place unannounced otherwise she would call the police. well, she invited me today to a local waterpark, i asked who else was going, and of course, the abuser and his friend. omg. this is insane. i told her absolutely not.

 

i don't understand. she's a completely cute smart woman, why oh why is she stuck on this guy?!? he's nothing special. she's even told me that when they had sex, he would insist on being on top and being in control, and if she started to enjoy herself, he would get soft immediately. that to me sounds like a guy who only gets turned on if he is having fun, not her.

 

it's insane. we went to check out a gym, and she told me not to tell anyone she was going to this gym because her ex-abuser guy got into a fight with the gym's owner. i said, not that it's any business where you go to the gym! and who freaking cares?! and then last week, she called me very upset because she was searching the internet (for dirt on him i guess). she found a blog of a woman who lives in the area who mentioned she had dinner with the guy in question. from the way the blog sounded, it wasn't a date, just two friends getting dinner - they are in the same campus organization. she called me very upset and freaked out. i told her, since it was a just friends sort of thing, then there's no reason for her to be upset, even if they were dating at the time. she said that he would have flipped if he found out she had dinner with a man friend. i said, well, he's on crack! i agree, the relationship was full of double standards, all the more reason it's better to be over. i have no idea why she is even still talking to this..... omg, i can't even think of a word to call him without setting off the censors!!!

[CMM]

Hi Annie-

I hope your friend has truly broken it off with this guy...That being said, I just wanted to say that education level has nothing to do with abuse. My BF and I both have PhDs. I always thought of myself as a confident, smart person. In fact, in many ways I still do except when it comes to him. While he is definitely not as psycho sounding as your friends' BF he has his jealousy issues, anger and sometimes violence issues. Its hard for me to understand how someone so confident, successful and educated could act like how he acts.

Please tell your friend to just completely stay away from him...!!!!!!!! Especially if he is acting like this sooo early on.

[annie24]

uuggggh. Kate is out with him again. she said she 'just can't stay mad at him.' i said it's ok if she can't stay mad, but that doesn't mean that they have to get back together. i said it's possible to know that someone isn't a good match and not be angry at them. she said she knew.... sigh.

 

i told her to call me tonight if she needs. she asked why. i said because almost everytime they hang out, it winds up in a fight and tears. she says he has admitted his mistakes and she says she thinks she might have overreacted to some things. i disagree. i think she has totally UNDER-reacted.

 

i told her, bottom line is that i want to see her happy, and i am concerned because this guy makes her cry most of the time, he doesn't make her happy.

[Siriana]

Oh my......

how sad...

[bulletproof]

There is a book called Dead By Sunset by Ann Rule that you should give to your friend. It's about a guy who sounds a lot like your friend's bf. Unfortunately the woman in the story ends up murdered, so it might be a good wake-up call for her.

[annie24]

yeah, i was planning on getting her "The Gift of Fear" soon.

 

this situation seriously stresses me out. to the point where i don't want to deal with her at times. i was so happy to hear that she had moved on, but now they spent the weekend together and it sounds like she is back at square 1.

 

i know she is going to the wedding next month of her MUCH younger cousin, and she was dreading going alone to a wedding and being 35. she was even going to pay for the hotel and flight and food for our mutual friend to be her date (he has a gf!) i said, 'so what?' i'm afraid she's going to take this guy now.

 

she is also going to a conference in europe next month. this guy suggested he come along with her, and she got upset. not because he was suggesting it in a good "i want us to have a romantic time in europe together" sort of way, but because she knew he wants to 'keep an eye on her' and make sure she doesn't meet some French hunk in Paris. and she knows this! and she's hanging out with him.

 

i feel like, i just need to vent here, because i am losing patience. i mean, my friend is great, she supports me so much, especially when i have a heartbreak, she is there for me. and i want to be there equally for her, but i feel like i'm talking to a brick wall...

[Siriana]

Oh Annie, it's easier to support someone who acts reasonable and goes through a rough time (that would be you) than having a friend who makes unhealthy choices and keeps making them over and over again.

I do understand why it stresses you out. I can only imagine how difficult it could be. My best friend dated a loser (not the same situation but equally unhealthy and stupid) and it certainly put a strain on our friendship. With time I was too exhausted to listen about her love drama 24/7. Created a lot of negativity in my life and made me feel bad. Luckily with time she came back to her senses and we managed to rebuild the friendship but if she hasn't...I couldn't be friends with her any more because as her relationship progressed our bond was getting weaker. She stopped having her interests and she adjusted herself and who she is to him and well...it didn't sit well on me.

I hope your friend will be able to get rid of that guy with time.

[Jumping Jack]

It is hard to keep supporting someone when they don't make it easy on themselves and make decisions that you just can't make sense of no matter how much you try, I have friend who is just like that now.

 

All I can say is you have to keep being there and support their decisions no matter what, it will be hard because it will be you that hears the tears and feels the pain they suffer but that's what being a good friend is all about, I know what you mean about the stress, I lose sleep over my friend and she is constantly on my mind as I always fear for her safety, I think my friend recognises that and I am sure yours does too.

 

They do make silly decisions that they justify to themselves through the strangest of logics which no one else would understand but you have to just keep supporting them through it because the second you give up on them the abuser wins and has complete control, which is what they ultimately want.

 

I probably have gone completely off topic and if I did I am sorry, didn't read the whole thread but I prayer that your friend like mine will at some point see what is there right in front of them and make the right decision once and for all.

[Aurian]

It is so easy to rationalize away stuff, and then block out other things. She tells you all the horrible things then interally rationalizes it away ("oh he was just upset, he didn`t mean it!") and clings to whatever nice things he did or may still do. Not that flowers makes up for being in a constant state of tears, but when compared to the extreme lows abusers put their victims through, a tiny gesture can cause a huge spike in happiness - almost like the high a drug addict gets that keeps them going despite all the nasty aftereffects and side effects.

 

It is like a drug. Abusers get the victims to delude themselves and often are very good at twisting things. You start agreeing with small things and eventually its a slippery slope to agreeing that a bad day means its okay for the abuser to scream at you and threaten rape.

 

Unfortunately, one can`t be forced to realize that one needs to stay away. The victim will keep looking for rationalizations that this guy is not so bad after all, that if she just behaves well enough that man who swept her off her feet will come back. A part of it is also the victim not wanting to believe that they have been manipulated and abused, so they keep the fantasy going that the behaviour is caused by the victim themselves - it gives an illusion of control - if I just behave well enough, I get Prince Charming back!

[annie24]

well, i went out with her last night. she says she is over him for good (i hope so, but who knows if she will go back to him). she said that for like 10 days, things were perfect. they were having so much fun, things were really nice and chill. then he started like, 'why are you being so nice to me, what's changed?' she just said that she was having fun with him, enjoying their calm times and such and that's what was making her motivated to be nice to him (like making a special dinner for him). well, that answer wasn't good enough for him, he kept insisting she tell him the REAL reason. then, he claimed he saw her driving downtown with a ton of boxes in her car, following her ex-bf's car, and wanted to know what she was doing. she insisted she wasn't moving anyone recently, nor driving with her ex, nor has she had any contact with him. he insisted that he did indeed, see her car (along with her license plates) with a ton of stuff in the car, and insists she is lying. the guy is out of her mind.

 

she said she can't deal with him anymore. he just can't enjoy things, he is so insecure, he's always accusing her of something. and of course, when girls text him, he just vaguely says that they are people from his martial arts club, and then changes the subject. (whereas she gets the third degree about her texts and phone calls!) like when i sent her a text about the dog i take care of, he was in the room. he asked her what i wanted to say. she told him it was about a dog, and he said it was stupid and why would i text about a dog? ummmm, ok..... and i'm sure that his friends text him deep and meaningful messages? nothing makes this guy happy. he's suspicious that she's talking to her exes, and isn't even satisfied when he sees that the text message is 150% innocent - about a dog!!!

 

she says she is done with him for good this time, i sure hope so. she mentioned having a minor crush on this guy who works in her building, and he talked to her a few days ago. i hope something good happens there.

 

edit: i forgot to add. she told me she had lunch with another friend who is married. the married friend said that her plans for the weekend were to clean her house with her husband, and then they were going to go to office max together to buy a paper shredder. she said that must be so nice, to be in such a drama-free relationship that the big plans are buying a paper shredder, and that she was ready for that sort of a steady, boring relationship. i hope she is!!!

[Batya33]

Hi - tuning in late so this is probably repetitive but do you think that it's just a simple case of her getting more pleasure than pain out of this kind of control? Something about it seems powerful/masculine to her and it gives her an excuse not to look for other guys or socialize a lot because "he won't let me"

[sherheart]

I know all to well what ur gf is going thru. Sadly. I have been in a relationship/s like this. Trust me, it will not get better! He seems very uncontrollable! He has obsessive, jealousy, controlling, emotional abusive traits already! I think either ur gf has hope( like most of us do) that he is just acting like a jealous bf and it's normal or she's definitely afraid of calling it quits with his not knowing what he might be capable of. My advice to u is, support her and be there for her and allow her to continue to tell u what's happening. Don't give up on her. She just doesn't know what to do right now. Many people turn their backs on abused women/men when they r in these relationships and i think that's the worst thing u can do! Then she'll really feel helpless and she doesn't need that right now. Sit her down and speak with her, have a heart to heart. If u know of anyone who has been in her situation and has gotten out, introduce them so she can get advice from someone who can totally relate.

Sometimes abused people tend to ignore people who have not been in the same predicament. So i just wish ur friend the best of luck and plz hang in there for her! Ur a great friend!