He's 40...

[Karmageddon]

You know of course there are exceptions to EVERY rule. We can all point out something the opposite of what anyone is saying. Perhaps they will live in bliss forever more if so great, i don't think anyone would be condeming them for that.

 

I think where a lot of the "concern" comes in from the ENA group is based on the collective life experinces that we have all shared. I think we can all point to examples of the age gap relationships where they didn't work out the majority of the time. People base their current advice on our old teacher which I like to call "past experiences". I'm sure many of us have tried an age gap relationship or know someone who has, so we also know the common reasons why it doesn't "typically" work out.

 

All we can do is point them out to her. She can take it or not. She's 21 and by my standards considered just a "kid" & I am younger than her guy.

 

She is right now on the road to one of the best & most fun times of her life. Her guy has already done those things.

 

She is going to probably want a family and kids some day, he probably has already done those things (If I personally wanted kids, I would prefer that my partner have the physical ability to pick them up...but hey...thats just me) (thats a joke people...but flame away!)

 

He thinks she is cute and amazing right now b/c she finds many of the things he does really cool and fascinating. Im sure he loves talking to her. Perhaps its no fun when his 40 year old date says "yeah, I did that too, so?"

 

I also think that forty year old men can get by with way more cr*p with a 20 y/o then they can with a 40 y/o if they are so inclined. He's got 20 years more "game" than she does.

 

And personally really what I think most is that as they get older, they will realize how much they really don't have in common. If shes out of a few bad relationships, she is probably looking for a bit of security. He is more than likely a good guy who calls when he should, picks her up on time, takes her to nice places that her 20 somethings didn't. And that is very attractive if you have not been treated well. Unfortunately, sometimes even in the best relationship circumstances the things you originally loved about your partner will drive you away. That security may become stifling, when he wants to stay home, it will be boring, normal things like this happen as all relationships cool, but this is one of those things where its almost a guarantee...I say ALMOST. We don't know them personally.

[jettison]

All of your points, they're valid. All of these premonitions, they may come true. But so what? These problems aren't any more or less valid then the problems we face in similar age relationships. Every relationship, from its inception, is doomed to fail. And if you're looking for a reason for a relationship to be "just not right" or be "a bad idea" then you will never, ever be short on ammo for your argument.

 

In fact, all the reasons people give at the beginning or relationships to be in that relationship end up getting turned on their head later and then used as excuses for the breakup.

 

- I love how sexy she is! vs. I hate how she's always using sex to get attention.

 

- I love how good and prudent his is with money vs. I hate that he's such a meiser. It's embarrasing.

 

- She's just so smart. The way she talks, the way she writes.... I am always amazed by her, and I never know what she's going to think of next vs. This woman just never shuts up! And on top of that, she always has to be right about everything. It drives me nuts!

 

- He is a sharp dresser vs. My god, what a primadona. He takes longer to get ready in the morning then I do. Is he gay? Put on a t-shirt and jeans for krist's sake and get on with it!

 

 

Anyone, at any age can spin any quality to make it positive or negative. Just like politicians, we take out stands first, we choose what we're comfortable with, then we gather evidence to prove our points. This is what we do in all relationships. This is also why it's patently absurd to offer our reasons that come from our conditioned minds as any kind of litmus test for two other people with two other lives.

[Karmageddon]

Every relationship, from its inception, is doomed to fail. QUOTE]

 

Well, I can see how if you go into it thinking that way, then true, it doesn't really matter who you date.

[Mutley]

Yea...but I guess many of us who reach a certain age want to start limiting the risks based on painful mistakes of the past. There are no clean deals....but we can try to wittle the garbage down to get a better chance.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

>>'This is also why it's patently absurd to offer our reasons that come from our conditioned minds as any kind of litmus test for two other people with two other lives.'

 

But isn't that what any conversation is about? We all come from our own experience, personally, or learned thru education, or our friends, or whatever.

 

What is great about this site is that there ARE a million different experiences here, and people offer their own perspective. The poster can read that perspective, and take it or leave it. Sometimes there is some small part of a longer piece that clicks, or expands someone's awareness, or gives them a better way out of their dilemma, or gives them comfort, or makes them mad but makes them think and open their minds a little.

 

I think it is a real mistake to say people shouldn't offer their opinions, because just like no one knows the poster's exact circumstance, it is also equally valid that no one knows what will or won't be useful to the poster, or open their eyes, or expand their awareness, etc. etc.

 

So i think it is a bit naive to take the attitude that no one can tell anyone else anything... that is a very youthful perspective in that those who have more experience usually recognize that every story in the world can and might tell you something that is useful to you, if not now, then later. And sometimes something that really grates you the wrong way can be the one thing that motivates change, or makes up their mind to behave in a different way.

 

It is up to each poster to separate the wheat from the chaff, the gold from the dross in terms of what is useful to them personally, not for another poster to decide which poster's opinions are valid or not for the original poster.

 

Frankly, it really takes the post off topic and is a disservice to the original poster when one person tries to shut down everyone else's opinions because they don't think they're valid. it's egocentric to think that one poster knows the answer, such that they can decide what is valuable among all the posts and be the definitive one to tell the poster how to live.

 

So the poster who constantly criticizes other people's opinions on ENA is doing exactly what he is telling the other poster's not to do... making judgements based on his/her own perspective when that perspective may not be correct for the original poster or any of the other posters.

[jettison]

Yea...but I guess many of us who reach a certain age want to start limiting the risks based on painful mistakes of the past. There are no clean deals....but we can try to wittle the garbage down to get a better chance.

 

And this exactly why some people remain closed up and alone while others keep putting themselves out there, willing to risk every failure for a chance at success. It seems smart that when you put your hand over the fire, and you get burned, that you should just stop putting that hand so close to the flame and get a little wiser. The problem is, however, that if you're not going to get near the flame then you're going to be eating cold leftovers for your dinner for the rest of your life.

[Mutley]

And this exactly why some people remain closed up and alone while others keep putting themselves out there, willing to risk every failure for a chance at success. It seems smart that when you put your hand over the fire, and you get burned, that you should just stop putting that hand so close to the flame and get a little wiser. The problem is, however, that if you're not going to get near the flame then you're going to be eating cold leftovers for your dinner for the rest of your life.

 

HA. Yes....I'm very scarred from a vast amount of burns.

 

I'll keep trying...but, as I said, I am much more selective.

[jettison]

You've misread what I've written. I never said that people shouldn't give their opinion. It's not only ok, but also prudent to point out potential pitfalls for example. People come here for advice, and everyone should give their advice.

 

But IMVHO, it's unwise to give our advice as if it's always the "right answer" no matter what. Advice is an opinion, and when it's offered as anything other then an opinion then it plays like "this is the group think... bow down before the group think."

 

I think that the poster is smart enough and savvy enough to already know that there will be pitfalls in relation to a spring-fall romance. The poster wouldn't have bothered asking the question if she didn't know there would be issues. And for all the posters that pointed out the pitfalls, that's exactly the kind of advice the poster may have been looking for. Perfect.

 

But for anyone who says "That's just patently a bad idea", or "Nope, that will just never work", or "Gross!" then it's really much more about people just injecting their own sense of morality and sensibility on top of anyone else's. I'm a dissenter here, I realize, but you need not be offended by my dissent. It doesn't mean that I'm right. It doesn't mean that, perhaps for a majority of people even, this kind of relationship wouldn't work.

 

But with all the loneliness and heartache we all see every day on ENA, it's hard to fathom why any poster can lunge right for the negative slant when trying to ascertain the legitimacy of someone else's love. When I see any two people in love, my first thoughts are usually, "Good on them. I love it. Beautiful. They are following their hearts, and they should be admired."

 

So sorry my friend, I'm not trying to shut down your opinion. It's fine. But why try to shut down mine? You're basically calling me out by name here and saying "shut the heck up" just because I've bothered to point out that people should be free to make decisions on their own sometimes without always have to do follow the perfect societal norm.

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Believe it or not, opinions like 'Gross' and 'that will never work out' might help the OP, from the standpoint that she is going to hear that and far worse from people she knows and her own friends when she tells them she is dating a 40 year old man, so she'd better get used to it and find a way to deal with it. Hearing it here first might be less painful and prepare her from hearing it from most of her friends.

 

Again, i don't object to your opinion ABOUT THE AGE GAP TOPIC, what i am object to is the attempts to shut other posters down in terms of expression their opinions or calling their opinions dumb or unenlightened.

 

you can express your opinion, but if you frequently take the discussion away from the topic at hand by going into an 'ENA posters are dumb and unenlightened and groupthinkers' rant, then it doesn't do the OP a service, but a disservice because you may shut down more timid posters who are afraid to express their opinions for fear of being labelled as unenlightened or groupthinkers.

[jettison]

Look at it this way... If you were involved in an unconventional romance with someone that you really cared about, and you were looking for opinions on a subject matter of which you were already insecure, would "gross" really be what you wanted to hear? I agree that it's honest, and maybe you're right that hard-hitting, straightforward, no-nonsense advice is often the very best advice, but I guess that in real life, I personally, would be a little bit offended if any one of my friends or relatives ever described something that I loved and meant a lot to me as "gross". Different strokes I guess.

 

However, I never, nor have I ever called any poster on ENA "dumb". If I did, then please quote me. If not then you're just putting words in my mouth. "Unenlightened" is also your word and not mine. I did say that we should all be weary of groupthink, and I include myself, because I think groupthink is dangerous, and yet no one ever bothers to point it out when they see it. We're all groupthinkers, every one of us. That's why things like slavery once existed in this country. It's because opinion, even incorrect ones, are pervasive. (of course I'm not comparing anything to slavery... just an example to make a quick point.)

 

And no, I'm not above any and every pitfall. Again, I'm not silencing anyone here, not claiming to be above anything. And really, I'm not even remotely "enlightened".

[SapphireNoir10]

I see no problem here. Fifteen years between my mum and dad. Married Twenty years. Absoloutley no problems. Infact older men are more experienced and not every man needs viagra :S

[BeStrongBeHappy]

Jettison, a direct quote from your first post on this thread: '80% of the mofos on these boards. '

 

You're calling the posters 'mofos'. Not cool.

[jettison]

Jettison, a direct quote from your first post on this thread: '80% of the mofos on these boards. '

 

You're calling the posters 'mofos'. Not cool.

 

That could be "not cool" if I didn't also call my girlfriend "mofo" and my parent's "mofos" and my best friend "mofo" as in "What's up mofo!? Whatcha been doing?"

 

It's slang. There is no malice there. Sorry your read it wrong. I just figured that you've seen me on these boards long enough to know that I couldn't possibly take something so dire and so seriously as to point any expletives in anyone's direction with malice. It's a term of endearment... not a put down.

[ManAbout]

 

But for anyone who says "That's just patently a bad idea", or "Nope, that will just never work", or "Gross!" then it's really much more about people just injecting their own sense of morality and sensibility on top of anyone else's. I'm a dissenter here, I realize, but you need not be offended by my dissent. It doesn't mean that I'm right. It doesn't mean that, perhaps for a majority of people even, this kind of relationship wouldn't work..

 

jettison, I think you are wasting your time with this line of reasoning. The fact of the matter is that every body has their own agenda as to why they think such a relationship is a good idea or not. Terms like "Gross", 'Creepy" etc. are very commonly used shaming techniques. These words are used mostly by women and some feminized men to shame other men when they disagree with their actions. Look at the majority of the dissenters. If you are woman in your 30s and beyond, an attractive successful 40 year old man is a real catch. But, the man who is still fit and attractive and succeful at 40 is generally NOT looking for a woman in her late 30s. So what happens to these women? They get bitter and angry when they are passed over for young 20 somethings. And that is what you are seeing here. These women cannot stand the fact that they are being looked over for a younger woman. As women get older, this is their greatest fear, that they will no longer be attractive to men. So, they use shaming tactics and words such as "gross" and "creepy" to prevent such matches from occurring. There is no logic to their reasoning. They bring up flimsy arguments to support their postion.

 

Now contrast this to situations where older woman, younger man relationships are discussed. There is much support. There are comments like, "woman can be attractive at any age". Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher are brought up as an example of a successful couple. Not ONE of these dissenters in the cases when the man is older will go to a discussion where it is an older woman and younger man and say it is gross and creepy or anything like that. In fact, there is universal support. Check this out and contrast the tone of discussion.

[ManAbout]

 

But now i need your opinion. Is 40 too old for me?

 

Yes. I think that you are too immature for such a match. It is not the first time you have posted such a query. You seem to be a person who is driven by a need to conform and other peoples opinions on how you live your life are very important to you. All these are signs of immaturity and for these reasons, I think you are too young for him. You do not have the level of maturity that such a relationship requires.

 

The man in question should break up with you. To be honest, I think he is wasting his time. He should save himself heartache in the future by ending this relationship now.

[Karmageddon]

Wow...talk about trying to pidgeon hole a bunch of 30+ women! Sheesh that's a pretty broad statement. I had no idea that we were all bitter, angry women who fear being passed over by the oh so glorious 40 something dude. You don't mention your age, so I am a bit curious as to the life experiences that bring you to this conclusion. Sounds like you need to come hang out with me and my girlfriends. There is not a bitter one in the bunch & we really don't give a crap what anyone else is doing. HOWEVER, if you ask us for our advice, we'll tell ya..and if you don't ask...well then..we don't care either.

 

OH, and as far as the Demi Moore thing goes, there are plenty of people who think that is just as ridiculous as the other way around. And as far as the post, most seemed to find the "confidence" attractive. Which I think most people are drawn to confident people, men or women. But hey, Im just a bitter old hag caught between the 40 somethings and the 20 somethings who want to date me. LOL!!!

 

Eh, what the hell do I know?? Now where did I put my fiber????

[jettison]

And I think that anyone that wastes their time explaining why a relationship, someone else's relationship, either will or won't fly is wasting their time. It's THEIR relationship. We don't even know the people asking the questions. This is an anonymous internet messageboard. If we pretend otherwise, then we are all just fooling ourselves.

 

Oh Greg, you were always so wise...

 

A sullen figure walks along a dusty road

his life was holy and he couldn't bear the load

he left his people and a simple life behind

he raised his torso and he looked into the sky

shouting his questions

looking for directions

"what do I do now?"

now a confused school girl stares at the TV tray

the stresses of maturing compound every day

she glances up to see her favorite video

and gets ideas from Madonna's nasty clothes

in need of affection

she craves affection

her heroes offer her

everyone is looking for something

and they assume somebody else knows what it is

no one can live with the

decisions of their own it seems

so they look to someone else

to tell 'em what to be

tell 'em what to wear

tell 'em what to say

tell 'em how to act and think and

compel others compulsively

until the world is all like them

a righteous student came and asked me to reflect

he judged my lifestyle ws politically incorrect

I don't believe in self important folks who preach

no Bad Religion song can make your life complete

you'll get no direction from me

you'll get no direction from me

[Crazyaboutdogs]

When I was 21 I was totally disgusted with the 40 year old men hitting on me...I wanted someone my own age..surely the ones who were in their early twenties were not dating the 6 year olds???! Now that I am in my forties I am still totally disgusted with the 40 year olds hitting on the 20 year olds...and I certainly wouldn't want to date a 40 year old who has an interest in dating twenty year olds...I would want someone who is comfortable with his age and doesn't feel he has anything to prove by bagging some young chick.

[JadedStar]

I agree. It adds more to the discussion to just give one's take on the topic vs shutting down the opinion that one finds unpopular.

 

I do not find giving advice that a 21 yaer old dating a 40 year asks for even if it is contrary is a bad thing. She is going to hear much worse than what she reads on this thread in the "real" world.

 

That said she is an adult so it is up to her, but she will face a lot of prejudice from others who look at her as young and naive and this guy as an old fool. It is what it is. NOt saying i agree with that, but telling her that she will have to face this in this relationship is just plain realistic.

[JadedStar]

And I think that anyone that wastes their time explaining why a relationship, someone else's relationship, either will or won't fly is wasting their time. It's THEIR relationship. We don't even know the people asking the questions. This is an anonymous internet messageboard. If we pretend otherwise, then we are all just fooling ourselves.

[/b]

 

BUT she ASKED thus opening the floor for the discussion. I do not know where you are going with these types of posts because when an OP asks a question she or he often wants to hear all different types of feedback, not just the ones that say SURE GO FOR IT!!!!

 

RIGHT it is an anonymous message board, so why do you get so upset if someone posts an opinion that is different from yours? Isn't it enough to give your take on it that is obviously all for it?

 

An occasional pipe in of "what were you thinking with that post" is one thing but ripping into others for a contrary opinion over and over derails the thread Jetti. Discussion is great, but you are trying to shut it down.

 

We're not haters on this board, some were just giving their honest view. I think that is what she was looking for.

 

I am not sure what you are going for, would it be best in your opinion that those who didn't tihnk it was a good idea not answer her question? I think that would do her a disservice if she didn't get all opinions, good, or bad.

[JadedStar]

Awesome advice!

[Karmageddon]

Ok, CAD & Jaded....I have to admit its a little funny to me that you are going off on Jetti, but have no opinion about what Manabout said?

[JadedStar]

Ok, CAD & Jaded....I have to admit its a little funny to me that you are going off on Jetti, but have no opinion about what Manabout said?

 

I am not "going off" on jetti at all. he's my pal. And i wasn't referring to what he said to manabout specifically, the only thing i was referring to was the fact that those who had a contrary opinion about this age gap relationship were wrong or had no right to speak it. The OP probably wanted to hear all kinds of advice since she asked directly for it. The advice she didn't want i doubt she would adhere to anyway.

 

I am all about the contrary opinion. I am usually the first one who is on the bandwagon of the not so popular choice and usually have a controversial opinion on many threads...its just the shutting down of the unpopular or unpopular vote that i questioned.

[JadedStar]

And to be honest, my posts were not in defense of manabout at all. Personally i think women who date younger men have it harder than the men who date younger women do. Demi Moore is hardly a realistic representative of the older female/younger male couple.

[Karmageddon]

And to be honest, my posts were not in defense of manabout at all. Personally i think women who date younger men have it harder than the men who date younger women do. Demi Moore is hardly a realistic representative of the older female/younger male couple.

 

No, it was really more about the blanket statement that all women over 30 are bitter & angry about being passed over for a 20 year old, which was why we were saying perhaps it wasnt a good idea for her to date him.

 

I guess I was the only one who found that an odd thing to say.