You Can Be Crap at NC and Still Tempt Them Back

[ycmanvs]

Yes...I have seen this happen more often than not. I have also seen an ex stay around for years and go back and forth, while the person "tries" relationships with new people. They don't get back together, but they still have sex with eachother, while they are in relationships with other people...and this goes on for years.

 

The OP is being honest with everyone involved, so at least that is something positive.

[deang]

can you guys NOT read. Instead of being caught in your own interpretation of what is going why don't you read his post. He's in a good spot while everything is sorted out...he isn't in a committed relationship with anyone. I think you are reading to much into it and doing people on here a complete disservice by applying standards that don't fit here. It's been like a week or two and suddenly you compare this to a guy who has a new relationship and carries a torch for the ex. Give me a break and find something better to do than to criticize something that's perfectly normal while relationships sort themselves out. Maybe you should try sudoku instead of giving relationship advice..those little puzzles with fit in neatly with your rules.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

can you guys NOT read. Instead of being caught in your own interpretation of what is going why don't you read his post. He's in a good spot while everything is sorted out...he isn't in a committed relationship with anyone. I think you are reading to much into it and doing people on here a complete disservice by applying standards that don't fit here. It's been like a week or two and suddenly you compare this to a guy who has a new relationship and carries a torch for the ex. Give me a break and find something better to do than to criticize something that's perfectly normal while relationships sort themselves out. Maybe you should try sudoku instead of giving relationship advice..those little puzzles with fit in neatly with your rules.

 

I respect your right to have an opinion on this thread, please respect my right to have an opinion. I don't appreciate being flamed for having an opinon just because it doesn't conform to yours.

[ycmanvs]

can you guys NOT read. Instead of being caught in your own interpretation of what is going why don't you read his post. He's in a good spot while everything is sorted out...he isn't in a committed relationship with anyone. I think you are reading to much into it and doing people on here a complete disservice by applying standards that don't fit here. It's been like a week or two and suddenly you compare this to a guy who has a new relationship and carries a torch for the ex. Give me a break and find something better to do than to criticize something that's perfectly normal while relationships sort themselves out. Maybe you should try sudoku instead of giving relationship advice..those little puzzles with fit in neatly with your rules.

 

I said that I thought the fact that he was being honest was POSITIVE, but he should know all the possible outcomes. That is why we are giving examples of outcomes, so that he does not assume that everything will be perfect from now on. And, the ex has been around for a while...and he still cares for the ex. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[browneyedgirl36]

can you guys NOT read. Instead of being caught in your own interpretation of what is going why don't you read his post. He's in a good spot while everything is sorted out...he isn't in a committed relationship with anyone. I think you are reading to much into it and doing people on here a complete disservice by applying standards that don't fit here. It's been like a week or two and suddenly you compare this to a guy who has a new relationship and carries a torch for the ex. Give me a break and find something better to do than to criticize something that's perfectly normal while relationships sort themselves out. Maybe you should try sudoku instead of giving relationship advice..those little puzzles with fit in neatly with your rules.

 

Actually, we can read. I read his entire post -- and this entire thread -- TWICE, and I still come to the same conclusion. Someone is going to get hurt, here.

 

It's not about fitting things into "rules." It's about human nature, and from what I've read here, I have concluded that, while everything seems fine right now, someone IS going to get hurt -- and badly, I'll bet -- at some point in the near future.

 

You say that some of us are reading too much into this, but maybe you are "interpreting" in your own way, too. Only time will tell; we may ALL be wrong -- including you -- but we do have a right to express our opinions when people choose to post about their relationships on an open forum.

 

In any case, I stand by my opinion on this, an opinion based on a combination of years of experience, logic/reasoning, intuition, and knowledge of human behavior.

 

As I said in my other post, I wish the original poster good luck.

[joed]

Good luck, I hope it all works out for you, whether it be your short, medium or long term desires. I've read your posts in the past and you've obviously worked on yourself and 'got' yourself back. A very positive, honest, informative and genuinely shared, post.

[CrapAtNC]

Again, I really do appreciate ALL the feedback.

 

To be honest, I am confused about what would happen if X came running. And I'm realising that, for M, we really aren't very serious, but, as others have mentioned, maybe she's more serious than she lets on but is keeping her cards close to her chest. But I know she has the attention of other guys.

 

The truth is, methinks, that M is keeping it not serious in case I might break her heart, but I've told her that the reason men might break her heart is because she makes them think she's not serious.

 

X is - certainly in my mind - ONLY being as affectionate as she is BECAUSE I'm with someone else, either because she realises she needs to keep me interested while she works herself out or because she feels more able to let her guard down knowing that I can't break her heart ... or because she's being a typical ex and only making her move once she realises she has to.

 

The dynamics are changing. M is now insisting on no sex with X, but it seems affection is OK as long as I don't tell her (her words). X got upset last night as we were quite affectionate for the evening but she realised I would be going to M after taking her home. That happened once before (she got angry when what she KNEW was happening was too much in her face). But she keeps coming back and being more open and honest than ever ... she's also trying to get me jealous with other guys.

 

X leaves to see her ex in a few days and will be away for a few weeks. I've told myself that this triangle will end within a week of her getting back (if not before). She's going because she wants closure and to get her heart back so she can love healthily again. I'll have several weeks exclusively with M. I'm focusing on M, but X is showing signs of being the woman I always wanted, so, as I already mentioned, I'm more confused now.

 

But I'm being open and honest and playing by the rules. They both know that they can ask for things to stop - either with themselves or the other girl - and the triangle will be broken. But, amazingly, neither has asked for that ... not sure why ... maybe because each is uncertain of whether they are prepared to commit to me ... really not sure.

 

But, anyway, things are toning down. No more sleeping at X's and only affection allowed (we hugged a lot last night, which was wonderful for me). I've also not had sex with M for the last few days. It just didn't seem right.

 

Both have promised that whatever happens we'll stay friends, which is really important to me as I don't just fancy them both, but actually LIKE them, very much.

 

I'm not good at making decisions, but clearly one has to be made soon. So I'm giving myself until just after X gets back. I'm focusing on M, but X is demonstrating more of what I wanted from her, so the choice isn't so easy now; I'll wait until it's more clear.

 

Thanks again for the input. I'm still pretty happy but the 'magic' of the situation has worn off and the reality is kicking in ... as you've all said, it couldn't last forever if we're all to stay friends. The sad thing is that one has to go ... or at least be converted into nothing more than friendship.

 

Incredibly, there are still several others still trying DESPERATELY to get me. This is not an ego boost; I'm genuinely intrigued as to why they kept their distance when I was available and asking but are practically begging now that I'm more nonchalant and so honest about being already taken (by more than one). I'm not sure what psychology is at play, but it's definitely happening; I'm getting more attention because I'm in no way needy, and they can see that others desire me. This was intended to be the point of my original post: If you want to spark attraction in your ex (or others) once more, you must (1) allow plenty of time to truly get yourself back, (2) not NEED it (but DESIRING it instead is fine), and (3) show that you are a catch by letting on that others do find you desirable.

 

This is the message in so many of the attraction and get-the-ex-back books I read, and it took time for me to get there, but I can vouch that it works (as well as you can hope, anyway). Just make sure you have a plan for how to deal with it when it happens.

 

Love you all,

 

 

Crap

[deang]

hmmm...sounds strangely like what I thought was going to happen that things would start to work out one way or another and soon and that the main focus is he is back to being himself and is strong and healthy.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

The dynamics are changing. M is now insisting on no sex with X, but it seems affection is OK as long as I don't tell her (her words). X got upset last night as we were quite affectionate for the evening but she realised I would be going to M after taking her home. That happened once before (she got angry when what she KNEW was happening was too much in her face). But she keeps coming back and being more open and honest than ever ... she's also trying to get me jealous with other guys.

 

As they say, "the chickens are coming home to roost". Whichever woman you land up with may ultimately have a hard time with this triangle once she has had time to really think about things.

 

Both have promised that whatever happens we'll stay friends, which is really important to me as I don't just fancy them both, but actually LIKE them, very much

 

What they say now and how they actually feel later might be a different story. If you land up with X, M might not be able to deal with being your friend if her feelings have gone too deep for you.

[Serendipitous]

I see exactly where you're coming from, where you're at too.

Its fine, you're in a good place.

It'll work out well.

Some people on here don't see the gray areas.

They need to learn more about flow and that sometimes you can't label everything.

As long as communication is open and positive and everyone knows what is going on then you're situation is cool.

I feel incredibly calm and at peace and know that whatever happens or doesn't happen in my love life its all a learning experience.

Youre not grasping, you're just meshing and exploring.

head in approval

 

 

 

[spazmy]

With all due respect to everybody, I think sometimes it does get hard to be in the recieving end of somebody else's grey areas. See, as people, we find it a lot easier to stop loving somebody as opposed to not being loved anymore. I guess it is only human -- and the depth of feelings only surfaces when the loss becomes fully apparent. I have seen numerous cases on the boards here where people have just had a short month long or two month stint at love, and then had massive heartbreak which took close to half a year or more to recover.

 

Meshing around and exploring is fine -- but how much are you prepared to cause pain to others?

 

In fact, this is a question that is particularly important for those of us who have experienced extreme pain. Can you honestly chose to put somebody else through it? If you do, then there should be a strong reason for it -- like say you met somebody when at war and had to marry her or him so as to save him or her from certain death A bit extreme that.

 

I guess, like CAD, I am a bit of an idealist. Heartbreak does not always have to be a part of loving. Once maybe, twice perhaps, but somewhere down the road, we do need to get mature and learn how to wait for the right person -- and not keep flinging ourselves into the mesh.

 

But that is what I think and I do not in any way know for sure that there is "a perfect way" of doing things. Just being slower in general is nicer to the self and to others in the long run. And I think we can all agree on this.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

That's exactly it..causing pain to others. Sure there is the argument that the two women have been told the score....but has M actually been told that the OP is still in love with X and would dump M in a heartbeat if X wanted to come back. Has the OP actually told M everything he has posted on this thread about how he wished everything that M did X would be doing? Sure M knows that he is dating and having intimate moments with X but it didn't take her long to start having a problem with that. There are other ways to get self-confidence back than to be the central figure of a love triangle. While the love triange is "great" for the person who is desired by all...it is ultimately hurtful fo the two partie vying for the attention...and while we all have to look out for ourselves...it shouldn't be to the point where we degrade others in the process...they may be going along for it and could stop it at any time..but that is basically absolving yourself of blame and saying "hey, this is great for me...I don't really care how they feel...if they are foolish enough to be part of this triangle, that's their problem"...and that is what I am sensing from this thread. So while I agree getting self-confidence is important in attracting others...it is important not to go to the other extreme and get too cocky that you become too self-indulgent and don't look beyond yourself to the longterm impact of your actions on others.

[binah3]

I don't think anything good will come from this, long or even medium term.

[ycmanvs]

I am going to follow this thread and see how it all turns out for the OP. This will be a learning experience for all involved, including us, the spectators.

[CrapAtNC]

Two points to add:

 

(1) I'm not getting self-confidence back through this experience; I'm having this experience because I got my self-confidence back.

 

(2) Why would I tell someone I'm interested in having a serious relationship with that I would get back with my ex if she changed? Who would? If I enter a serious relationship with M, it'll be because I've decided that she is the one I want and not X. Right now, she's growing on me (her lack of wanting to be serious with me yet is the largest factor in me not being serious with her - not anything to do with X).

 

Anyways, X is fine again tonight. M's only complaint about me is that I snore (never knew that!). She says that I'm actually doing better than most guys she's dated. X is opening up more about her feelings and is being more honest about what's going on in her head. So I must be doing something right.

 

Remember, M has done all the chasing and I've been honest with her from Day 1. X has started doing more chasing, but less so since she got upset and I've been making more of an effort with her (the ol' push and pull raising its annoying head again).

 

The only thing I don't like is that, because X doesn't want to hear anything about M and M doesn't want to know when I see X, I sometimes have to lie ... and that's not something I enjoy.

 

Don't expect any major updates after tomorrow, as it'll just be me and M for a few weeks now.

[ycmanvs]

(1) That is very good news. Keep up the good work.

(2) Only time will tell at this point. It sucks that you have to lie at all, but sometimes people do not want to hear the truth about the "other" person in your life.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Oh man, I would just love to knock some sense into both of those women...they must have serious self-esteem issues to go along with this setup.

[Ellie2006]

Two points to add:

 

(1) I'm not getting self-confidence back through this experience; I'm having this experience because I got my self-confidence back.

 

This may very well be the case but you cant deny that the experience is also an ego-booster?

 

 

Remember, M has done all the chasing and I've been honest with her from Day 1.

 

Sorry that I'm being such a stickler for detail but no, you really haven't; you have been truthful about seeing X and being occasionally intimate with X but you have kept the following details from her [see below]

 

 

(2) Why would I tell someone I'm interested in having a serious relationship with that I would get back with my ex if she changed? Who would?

 

The only thing I don't like is that, because X doesn't want to hear anything about M and M doesn't want to know when I see X, I sometimes have to lie ... and that's not something I enjoy.

 

You've admitted that you lie about seeing X.

 

You've also admitted that even though you are entertaining the thought of getting back with the ex if she changed, you are keeping this information from M, because as you pointed out, who would really admit to such a thing to a person they're sort of dating?

 

BUT your unwillingness to disclose this fact also goes against your comment that you're being "truthful" and honest to M.

 

If you were truly being honest to M, you would lay all your cards on the table -- the way you feel about her and the way you feel about X.

 

Honesty (or lack thereof) aside, I, like so many other posters on this thread, think you have to choose; quite frankly, I would choose neither but that's probably just me.

 

Just my two cents.

[CrapAtNC]

I've been honest with them as I have been here.

 

And I don't lie about seeing either of them; they have asked me not to tell - big difference. They both know I see the other but they don't want any more info than that (such as when and what happened). If they wanted to know, I'd tell them.

 

M knows I have strong feelings for X, that I love and care about her, and that I'm still attached. I just haven't said that I would get back with her if she changed ... I don't know anybody who tells their date everything like that. Do you tell your dates that you sometimes fantasize about one of their friends? Only a person with no common sense and a lot of time on his hands would tell his date everything he's thinking ... and what would be the point if, as I've stated so many times on here, I'm confused as to what I want (which both M and X DO know.)

 

It's actually not an ego boost - if you were in this situation yourself you'd know why. It's not much fun being in a position where you KNOW you're bound to lose someone you like and who you're intimate with, but that's what will happen. As I've been saying, the boost to me is in seeing my ex open up, be more honest, be happier and more relaxed, and be more accepting of affection. That's the biggest buzz I get out of all this, and it's only happening BECAUSE I have someone else.

 

CAD, there is a whole dynamic to this kind of set-up that you don't really understand. It's not necessarily (though it is possibly) about self esteem or lack of; it's about what works for your current situation. M is highly, highly sought after here, she's intelligent, and she's successful. Interestingly, she usually dumps guys very quickly if she suspects they're playing around and moves on very quickly without looking back. I get an ego boost from being seen with her, for sure, as she's gorgeous (and great fun). She has plenty of self esteem. X has finally realised that she has pushed me away, and is doing what she can to retain my interest while she gets closure with her ex. She finally admitted that, which is nothing short of a miracle.

 

Anyway, as I pointed out already, this triangle isn't what it was, as, for all intents and purposes, I'm merely dating M now non-exclusively. I just choose to see only one other woman, and that's X. M dates other guys, though she used to invite me along! I guess they weren't real dates.

 

Anyway, I have to get some sleep.

[Ellie2006]

I just haven't said that I would get back with her if she changed ... I don't know anybody who tells their date everything like that. Do you tell your dates that you sometimes fantasize about one of their friends? Only a person with no common sense and a lot of time on his hands would tell his date everything he's thinking ... and what would be the point if, as I've stated so many times on here, I'm confused as to what I want (which both M and X DO know.)

 

You're right; of course if I were dating someone and fantasizing about his friend, I wouldnt tell him BUT I wouldnt also swear up and down that I am being honest.

 

Because I'm NOT being honest, especially about how I feel about his friend, which consequentially would affect how I feel about the guy I'm dating. And I would not tell him this because I'd know that this information could negatively influence my relationship with the guy I'm dating.

 

 

And I don't lie about seeing either of them; they have asked me not to tell - big difference. They both know I see the other but they don't want any more info than that (such as when and what happened). If they wanted to know, I'd tell them.

 

Well, isnt this what people call "lying by omission"? Is it justified or right because they have given you license to do so? I dont think it's right or justified but again that's probably just me.

 

Honestly, I see a lot of flaws in your logic but I dont think it's my place to set you right. All I can say now is best of luck to you.

[CrapAtNC]

Hi, Ellie2006.

 

Then I think we have ground for agreement: I admit that I am not being honest with them because I don't tell them every single thing that's going on in my head nor about anything bad that I may have done in the last 40 years that might make them like me less.

 

So, can I say that I'm being as honest as any sane person would be? Or shall we agree that no person on this planet is as 'honest' as your sense of logic would want us to be?

 

Crap

[Serendipitous]

Hi, Ellie2006.

 

Then I think we have ground for agreement: I admit that I am not being honest with them because I don't tell them every single thing that's going on in my head nor about anything bad that I may have done in the last 40 years that might make them like me less.

 

So, can I say that I'm being as honest as any sane person would be? Or shall we agree that no person on this planet is as 'honest' as your sense of logic would want us to be?

 

Crap

 

 

The human race would've died out long ago if everyone knew every damn thought one another had.

I DONT want to know every little thought my loved one has ever had NOR do I want to disclose every little thing Ive ever thought or done.

[deang]

Keep up the good work crapatnc...this unfortunately is how the real world works...if you want ideal then go watch Sleepless in Seattle. Things will work out and you have to just go with it...anyone who thinks differently isn't dealing with the real world...nothing is ever ideal and if you think it should be then you are going to have a hard time finding a good relationship. I used to be like that and the more I let go of some "boy meets girl" fantasy the better my relationships get.

[CrapAtNC]

Serendipitous and deang, amen!

[CrapAtNC]

Weird update:

 

X, as you know, got very upset that I went to M just after seeing her (X and I no longer have any kind of sexual intimacy, but we are affectionate). But, the next day, I gave her a bit of space and let her know I understand why she might be upset and that I never meant to hurt her, and by the evening we were fine again. We went out for dinner, watched a DVD at mine, then went back to hers, as I'm taking care of her pets while she's away. Nothing happened. I didn't stay. I've promised M I won't.

 

X got a little moody near the end of the night, and said some things I hope she didn't mean, but her guard came back up and she seemed to want to just keep me away from her. Then I had a revelation: Why was I wasting time with this? I said the same to her, but calmly and clearly in contemplation. I looked her in the eyes, and she looked sad when I said that she was probably the meanest person I know (it's true - she rarely if ever says anything nice but bad and hurtful things just flow), and I wondered aloud whether I really loved her or just saw this as some kind of conquest, to prove that the unlovable can actually lower guard and love and be loved in return. It seemed to sink in deep.

 

I started to leave (I had to anyway). She came to me, but didn't really know what to say. She helped me carry things and her pets to the car, and then asked if I'd still take her to the airport in the morning. I asked if she wanted me to, and she said yes - another huge improvement from her; usually she would just say no, no matter whether she really meant it or not, as she has always been reluctant to appear needy, or dependent ... or wanting me or my time or attention (it's easy and cheap to get yourself to the airport here).

 

I picked her up early next morning (yesterday), and she was fantastic, despite only having two hours' sleep. She was chatty and playful, and, incredibly, we held hands part of the way. When it came to saying good-bye, she hugged me hard ... twice. This is the kind of moment I live for, bless her. She kept waving as she went through passport control and after it until we couldn't see each other any more. I knew she would be coming back a different person, as she would either have success or closure, and the same awaited me.

 

We chatted via MSN (her instigation) this morning as she waited for her flight to leave. She forgave me asking a personal question that really had nothing to do with me, and we carried on having a fun and friendly chat, despite her only having two hours' sleep again. She's clearly making an effort. I told her a few days ago that from now on, to avoid all the apparent miscommunications that result from all her grey areas, I was going to accept whatever she said and not try to believe it to be any different. If she said we had no hope, I'd stop trying. If she said she hated me just one more time, I'd accept it and act accordingly and say good-bye. And I'd be careful to react appropriately to her actions instead of looking for ways to forgive them. My assertion did the trick (should have stuck to this two years ago), and she is now very, very careful about how she speaks to me. She knows I've reached my limit of understanding.

 

I called M after leaving X's, and she asked where I'd been. She'd told me she didn't want to know if I saw X, but I don't want to lie, as, among other things, if she found out I'd covered it up, she might imagine that worse things happened than really did. She seemed quiet but appreciated the honesty, and said she did trust me. I told her that X was going away for almost a month. It would now just be me and her, and I suggested we go away and have some fun.

 

Later that night, she sent a message saying we should take a break. She wants us to hang out still, as she thinks a lot of me and enjoys my company, but she wants us to be less intimate, as she feels she's been treated as second best. I can understand that. We chatted a bit via SMS, and both agreed it might be wise. But by this morning we were both trying to make it work. The truth is, M is the perfect woman for me, and is all that X isn't (yet?). She is a perfect girlfriend. But my heart is still with X, and that bugs me. I almost want to take some magic pill that will cure me of my addiction to X and allow me to enjoy my relationship with M and take it to its full potential. She's the kind of woman I could marry happily and know that we'd be happy forever. But I think the same about X, if only her guard could come down.

 

So, my triangle has become a circle: a big fat zero. I'm fine, as are M and X. We still like each other, me and them both, and we're clearly good friends. I'm just very confused now. Do I use this away time to work on deepening my relationship with M and forgetting about X? Or do I accept what X has hinted at (all she's ever able to do), that, if she gets her heart back from the closure she will get on this trip, we stand to have a far more complete and fulfilling relationship than before? She wants me to wait for her.

 

I don't mind waiting. It's just a few weeks, and I see no need to spend the time pursuing others while I wait, in case I stand to lose. But I also don't want to watch M walk away.

 

So, what should I do? I like both a hell of a lot but only want one as a girlfriend and the other as a friend. I never wanted this triangle. M wants us to wait to see how to solve this. I suspect she knows that I need to know the result of X's trip for me to get closure ... or back with her. She (M) is in the same position I am, basically.

 

I'm tempted to focus on my work and nothing else until X returns, but have some fun and friendly dates with M during that time.

 

Maybe you guys can see this clearer than I can; what do you think? I love X but could love M more in time.

 

All is good. I'm still in a good place and thankful for the wonderful relationships I've been enjoying side-by-side. Now I just need to work out my next move, and make it one that works for everyone if possible.

 

Cheers!

 

Crap