You Can Be Crap at NC and Still Tempt Them Back

[deang]

we will disagree...I supervise people and if I get on them because they don't do things exactly right then we'd get no work done. If I praise them for what they've done that's positive and overlook harmless mistakes then I get more output. Like I said this isn't ideal but it's working for him and that's what it's all about.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

we will disagree...I supervise people and if I get on them because they don't do things exactly right then we'd get no work done. If I praise them for what they've done that's positive and overlook harmless mistakes then I get more output. Like I said this isn't ideal but it's working for him and that's what it's all about.

 

Well, this is matters of the heart, not the workplace...while I agree with your modus operandi at work, I don't think it is appropriate to extrapolate that to matters of the heart. Drugs make a person temporarily happy but in the long run is damaging...same with playing with two women at the same time who are pining for other men..that's playing with fire...not the same as workplace situations.

[deang]

drugs would be a huge mistake...please read my post...and life is life whether its at work or at home...things aren't perfect. He is making huge strides in my opinion and getting back to being himself...he doesn't sound like he's hung up on either one at this moment and that's great. Putting him down because it doesn't fit your ideal seems to be me like sour grapes and that you can't handle someone having a little success. We are here to encourage the good things...he is able to interact with his ex without compromising himself in my opinion...in some puritanical version of the world he is wrong but in the reality most of us live in this happens all the time and people still works things out. Mistakes and misteps can be made but it is progress nonetheless. I don't understand why you insist on making this into something horrible. It's not...drug addiction is horrible agreed but being able to date women and be ok and a little confused is bad? Why should he have to make the choice and not them...they are just as culpable. He should see how things develop...I doubt he's trying to start some polygamist cult. He is just in a situation that is confusing yet good for him at the moment. It's affirmation that if you get yourself back and work to improve yourself you become more attractive to your ex and others. I think that is the major theme of this forum.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Well, call it sour grapes and think what you will about my motivations...I stand by what I said and I actually do have the best interests of the OP at heart, despite your accusations to the contrary. Perhaps you should look into your own reasons why you are such a staunch supporter that you are getting testy and defensive about it and downright hostile to someone who has an opposing opinion...I am not buying into the work analogy.

[spazmy]

I tend to agree with crazyaboutdogs. We are presented with choices all the time. Many times after being dumped by my ex, I felt that I was getting attention from a lot of women. Initially, it was very empowering. And I thought to myself that I really ought to go with the flow and enjoy their company (mind you, most of these women were and continue to be in steady relationships). However, something made me to stop and think carefully. Why do this? What will be gained? Hell, even my ex became interested in me again (of course without breaking up with her current boyfriend).

 

After much careful thinking (and folks, this is precisely what being single lets you do -- it gives you the time to be by yourself and contemplate the consequences of all your actions), I decided on not hooking up with anybody -- and also, not pursuing my ex. It is another thing that I love somebody else -- but even so, I do not think the question of compensating for the loss of one by replacing that person with another ever really arose.

 

Because when you do that, you end up doing to those people what others have done to you. You set the ball rolling.

 

Clear the baggage -- take your time -- and only then plunge into things.

 

Also, feeling good is all very fine. But it does take some amount of courage and imagination to see that we really live in a world of perceptions (and very fickle ones at that). And in such a world of perceptions, no sooner do people get to know us better, they loose interest.

 

It is very important to preserve one's own innocence and that of others. And the only way of doing that is ensuring one remains deeply mindful of one's own feelings and those of others.

 

Just a rant. bear with me folks

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Very well stated.

[deang]

sorry please refrain from posting things that exist in fantasy. No matter what you think about whether it's moral or not ...he is doing what is best for him and not purposely hurting anyone and everyone is aware of what is going on..it's been a short time not a long period. Give the guy a break they will work this out...you guys act like this is some male fantasy he is living out...he has two women that mean something to him figuring out where they stand and he is too. Cut people slack...this isn't the place for rigid rules. You are dealing with love the most chaotic thing we have to deal with in our lives.

[deang]

I know why I'm defending him because he's in a good place in his head and excited about what the future may hold and he seems accepting of whatever might happen. Now tell me what about his best interests do you have in mind by saying what he is doing is wrong? What do you hope to accomplish for him that is better than what he already is doing. I think he's doing phenomenal. We live in reality where not everything is a perfect monogamous relationship all the time...if they worked out like in the movies then we wouldn't need this board. I don't see anyone being put out about what he's doing right now except some of the posters...that seems completely wrong to me. We are here to support progress, healing and reconciliation if possible. He isn't begging, pleading, tricking, manipulating, threatening or guilting anyone into getting back with him. He's not being a doormat. He's doing what he thinks is right for him. Isn't this what is preached on here?

[CrapAtNC]

May I join in this discussion?

 

I expected my post to draw a lot of debate, and also misunderstanding. I've not had time to respond to some of the comments until now.

 

First off, many thanks, deang, for seeing it exactly the way it is. And no offense taken from those who read into my posts what simply wasn't there.

 

Let me clarify a few points:

 

*My post was supposed to be about how having another love interest and being able to keep my emotions aside has helped me to win back the attention and affection of my ex (actually, the affection was never there before - that, to me, has been the greatest prize from all this).

 

*I was very careful not to get sexually involved straight after breaking up with my ex ... it was more than a year, in fact.

 

*Both women are aware of the situation, and I suspect that's WHY this is happening. They both accept it readily.

 

*It's in no way a mess, as it's all open and honest, caring and loving, and incredibly beneficial to all parties.

 

*Whoever said this was all about sex is very wrong. I have others I could go to very easily for sex. With X, there has been no actual intercourse, and with M, we took things very slowly, with me being honest about the situation from the start and her being incredibly mature and understanding about it. We dated for more than a month before becoming physical; I stayed at hers five times, on the sofa or sleeping next to her, before we even touched. With both women, what I am (and they are) enjoying is a fun, loving, friendly, giving, relaxed, open and honest relationship.

 

*It's not all about sexcapades and orgasms, either. FYI, it's more about loving fun and intimacy ... orgasms aren't the goal, and mostly never happen ... strange, eh? That's unique for me.

 

*I broke up with X more than a year ago; I was messed up then, but not now. This is probably the most mature situation I have ever been in.

 

*My ex is benefiting from this immensely; she has been forced to take a good look at how she treats people she's involved with, to work on fixing her issues, and to actually let her guard down and be loved and loving in return. I've never seen her happier.

 

*I'm not a player. I had to talk to M last night about the 'rules' to our relationship, as I've never been in anything other than a serious relationship. She explained, bless her, that we were having fun, that she isn't interested in other guys, that the one she mentioned probably won't actually evolve into anything, that she understands I will still have X on the side for a while, and that that's fine until we are serious, in which case it would have to stop.

 

*I am in no way emotionally vulnerable, and X has never appeared more emotionally stable than she is now. It's working FOR us, not against us.

 

*I agree that this wouldn't be healthy in the long-term, but things are settling right now, as deang so insightfully pointed out. Two nights ago I told X that I don't want this to carry on much longer, and the same to M last night. But, for now, it just seems that we are all waiting to see how things will settle, and I've agreed with both parties that the most important thing for us is that we leave as we came in, as friends (I've known M for nearly 10 years). I love both these women, and, as in the past, I'm very capable of having incredible relationships with exes as friends.

 

*Nobody, as far as I can tell, is using anybody any more than friends use friends for company, fun, etc. If I can say so, I'm a very fun and giving guy, and women are always entertained in my company.

 

*As I understand it, M's other guy is more of a fallback plan for her, and perhaps a way to keep things from getting too serious too quickly ... and maybe a test for me. I never reacted; I passed the test. She's now told me it'll probably not happen. X's guy is never gonna happen; she knows as well as I do that it's more of a psychological thing; she's made this her focus - her excuse - for so long now, that she needs to exorcise that ghost to be cured. For the first time ever, she admitted that she intends to close that door so that she can finally have a fulfilling relationship ... probably with me.

 

*I guess it is an ego boost, but that's really not the major feeling I get. I'm actually more happy about having my ex finally open up and be as warm with me as the girl she is now forced to compete with. (She needed that!) My relationship with M is public; with X it's secret - you guys are the only others who know.

 

*Thank you, ieatglue, for seeing that, indeed, it's such a refreshing change from the living hell I've been in ... not being able to get affection from the woman who I love more than anyone else was horrific for me. I've gone from living hell to loving heaven.

 

*CrazyAboutDogs, are you jealous? Is it because I rescue and work with dogs and you know we'd make a great couple? There's probably room for one more! (Take that in the good humour with which it was intended. )

 

Many thanks to all of you, especially those happy to see me enjoying - for the first time - relationships without a strong emotional investment (the cause of all my unhappiness in the past), and for wishing me all the best.

 

I appreciate all the comments, as all are constructive and I do consider all that is being said. I just hope you can trust that I've been honest with my responses, and truly believe that this is a great stepping stone to my future happiness. We'll all come out of this no worse and probably better than when we came in.

 

I'm happy. They're happy. We're all incredibly understanding of the situation and enjoying it for what it is and while we can, before decisions have to be made.

 

Cheers, all. I have to go get some rest now ...

[louhere]

Oh my god... you are set up for a world of pain! All round!

[CrapAtNC]

Oh my god... you are set up for a world of pain! All round!

 

Ha ha! Why?

[CrapAtNC]

they seem to be into you, but you're not really into either of them, other than the fact they both want you and treat you better than you treat them. Doesn't this make you feel a bit guilty about playing with their emotions?

 

You've raised a good point here. I am into both these women, in slightly different ways, but what's new to me is that I don't let the desire (love) I feel for them dictate my actions, as I was too loving before, and that made me come accross as needy and a bit of a wuss. I have the feelings, and I accept them but not let them rule my head (it's something I picked up from learning how to overcome codependency).

 

I treat them both really well. I'm a very giving person, remember. I've just learned to give without the expectation of getting anything back ... and that's what makes them give back. No neediness. We have fun.

 

And there's no guilt here. I've been very careful to make sure that everything is open and honest and no one is doing anything they don't want to. I'm not in the driving seat; they are. And everyone is happy - my ex has never been happier nor more relaxed and loving; that, to me, makes anything worthwhile. If she gets back with her ex and stays as happy as I've seen her recently, I will accept that and be genuinely happy for her. I'm not usually a selfish kind of guy.

 

This thread has turned into a discussion on love triangles rather than on the benefits of finally moving on and giving up on neediness ...

 

My point: People, stop chasing, move on, be happy, and don't be afraid what your ex will think about anything. And don't take anything they say as gospel - you wouldn't believe how many times I heard she hated me and wished she'd never met me and would never get back with me again in a million years. Forget details. Focus on yourself. Allow your ex to go and be with whomever they need to be with. Let it go. Allow a lot of time for the water to pass under the bridge. Love again. Then see what happens.

 

Cheers!

[zzeitgeist]

Wow... this is bad. You may think your in a good spot now my friend but you just wait.. I pretty much agree with everything dogs has said so far. Your opening a huge can of worms, be ready for the dirt that comes with it...

[zzeitgeist]

This thread has turned into a discussion on love triangles rather than on the benefits of finally moving on and giving up on neediness

 

Dude.. your sleeping with your EX, so of course you think your moving and are on cloud 9, your needs and desires are currently being met and your ego is satisfied. Wait till they both cut you off, thats when your true emotions will surface.

 

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong so don't get to defensive.

[CrapAtNC]

Hey, no defensiveness required.

 

The point is, I'm able to enjoy a relationship without the burden of over-emotional attachment. That was a problem for me before, but not now.

 

I've already prepared for and accepted that they could both cut me off, so that's not a concern ... nor a probability, as I've discussed with both the importance of staying friends no matter what happens. But then why would they cut me off? Neither is unhappy with the situation, and if one says it's time to stop, it will.

 

You could be right, of course. But let's see. What I'd love to happen is for my ex to come back, the door closed on her past, and able to love and be loved again. But maybe by that time I will be more into M, in which case my ex and I will just have to stay friends. Right now, as far as both are concerned, I'm not serious with either, and both accept the other happily. So I don't foresee the same disaster you do. For me, this is as good as I could have expected from my ex and it's only happening because of the situation I'm in.

[zzeitgeist]

Fair enough. Hopefully it all works out, and meanwhile you might as well enjoy what you got.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Well whatever floats everyone's boat....this reminds me of Betty and Veronica vying over Archie. I think this is taking the "learning to not be needy" lesson to the complete opposite end of the spectrum. It is akin to going on a crash diet to lose 50 pounds and then once the weight is lost, instead of learning how to eat balanced meals, the person goes hog wild crazy and has lunch at MacDonalds and supper at Burger King every single day. True healing and moving forward is when you can get balance...the opposite of neediness is not proving to someone you are not needy by having a second love interest. Plenty of people have successful reconciliations with their love interest without having to go the route of having a love triangle until their primary love interest decides. You actually are not as healed as you imagine, because if you were you would really not bother with this woman until she actually decides that she totally wants you. Her coming back to you and wanting you simply because you have someone else is not a healthy way to get back together with someone. Her decision should come from a place of wanting you and missing you, not from a place of "gee, I just don't want anyone else to have him". As much as you think this triangle is an amazing thing, it actually isn't...it is incredibly unhealthy and not a sign of moving on at all. As far as this whole notion of it being a temporary measure and thereforeee that somehow justifies this whole triangle...lots of damage can be done in the time it takes for this triangle to finally fizzle. I think this whole setup is so dysfunctional and not only you, but these two women are so caught up in this bizarreness that nobody is seeing the forest through the trees. All three of you seem to be caught up in this two love interest scenario...each one of you have more than one love interest on your mind and each of you are hedging your bets on which one is going to pan out. So perhaps this works for all three of you because you all have the same triangle type scenario going on in your lives so you all understand where the other is coming from. Chances are, despite the claims to the contrary, one of you is going to get hurt when final decisions are made.

[spion_kop]

crazyaboutdogs, thats exactly what i think. My friends are all telling me to go and date again but i see no need to. I know that even after 2 months if i date, it will be a rebound to me. I dont feel ready or the fact that i need a woman in my life to make me happy. I didnt realize how much fun it could be to actually be single and im glad that i have this time right now before i graduate from university and hafta start my career etc.

 

if your ex really wants you back, she knows where you live and how to contact you. That's what i tell myself, even though now i dont want her back. If she really wants you that bad, let her come to your doorstep and then deal with her. Anything over the phone or messages etc are pointless.

[spazmy]

Hey crap at NC, dude, just don't want to get you down buddy. If you feel happy -- then go ahead. Only be careful with your own heart. I think CAD seems to be saying only this. Ultimately, we are all friends here and just want to protect each other from pain. Also, the right person will come into your life for you. I have no doubt about that. Triangles are usually very unhealthy. I had been in one for a long time -- where I was in love with this girl (who was a friend of my ex), and at the same time, had my ex express an interest in me.

 

I actually had to let both of them go.

 

 

Even today I feel pain over having done this and there are a few times when I break NC with the girl I love -- with no reciprocation. Still, I do feel happy over having at least seen that what I was doing was not good -- that is, run from thoughts of my ex, into the arms of another person.

 

At least what I figured in the whole process was that I should not run from the pain I experienced over the second girl, to a third person. It takes a while to heal -- and then, one is ready to meet the world head on.

 

I do not think you are looking for advice -- but are really venting. Take what I say, what CAD says and what everybody else says with a pinch of salt. You, ultimately, will be the best judge of your situation. We can only give you some inputs based on our own experiences in the world love and heartbreak

[CrapAtNC]

Everything I read here is taken as advice; I'm constantly learning.

 

Well, M has decided that we should be a little more serious now, and I'm allowed to still see X but no more sexy stuff, which is fine by me. As I said and we all agree, it wouldn't be healthy to have this as a long-term arrangement.

 

X leaves this week to visit her ex for a few weeks, and things are becoming more and more serious with me and M. She's wonderful. Apart from being drop-dead gorgeous, she's kind and considerate. She fixes my buttons, buys me chocolate, makes me feel good about myself ...

 

If my ex could do these things, we'd be the happiest, most well-suited couple on the planet ... but whether that will improve after she gets closure on her previous relationship is a gamble. I'd be a fool to give up the great thing I've got, so I'm putting X into the friendzone - close friends, though, as we really are incredibly compatible in our interests and we have got a strange kind of closeness, but M is my priority now.

 

I'm happy - we're all happy - still. Things are settling, and that's a good thing.

 

Thanks for ALL the input - it's always much appreciated, and that's what I come here for, after all. Have a great week, all!

[Crazyaboutdogs]

If my ex could do these things, we'd be the happiest, most well-suited couple on the planet ... but whether that will improve after she gets closure on her previous relationship is a gamble. I'd be a fool to give up the great thing I've got, so I'm putting X into the friendzone - close friends, though, as we really are incredibly compatible in our interests and we have got a strange kind of closeness, but M is my priority now.

 

Not very good if you are with M because she caters to your whims but if X did all that you would prefer to be with her. Also, YOU should feel good about yourself...it sounds to me like M serves as your ego boost and someone who bows down and kisses your feet so you are with her because she feeds your ego. X doesn't feed your ego and is likely going to meet up with her ex to have sex. It sounds to me like you are in this relationship for all the wrong reasons. Are you happy because you love M or are you happy because M caters to you and thereforeee it builds your self-esteem. You should have had a healthy self-esteem before having M sew your buttons and buy you chocolate like she is some 1950's homemaker or your mother.

[CrapAtNC]

You're seeing this the way you want, methinks. Perhaps I should mention the things I do for her ...

 

I don't love M because we've only been dating a month or so; X has been my everything for the last two years.

[ycmanvs]

You're seeing this the way you want, methinks. Perhaps I should mention the things I do for her ...

 

I don't love M because we've only been dating a month or so; X has been my everything for the last two years.

 

I am not sure if you can put a time deadline on love...it happens when it happens...for some it is within weeks, for others it takes years.

At least you are being honest with everyone involved. As long as you stay honest, everything will go well for you.

[browneyedgirl36]

I just hope that M really understands what's going on here, because it sounds to me as if, if X came back and threw herself at your feet begging for you to take her back, you would, in a heartbeat, leaving M at the curb with the garbage, no matter how great and wonderful and beautiful she is.

 

You say she understands, and that it's not "serious" with her right now, but...she may not *understand* as well as she's claiming to;she may feel it's more serious than she's letting on, but she's going along because she wants to keep you in her life. This kind of thing happens a lot.

 

To me, this whole thing sounds like a recipe for disaster; right now, it seems to be working, but that's because it's still all pretty new.

 

I'm not going to pass any judgement on this. I'll just say, good luck to you.

 

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Exactly! This is what I am trying to get at. There is another thread I have been posting on about regarding a guy who could never let go of his ex...he has been a new relationship for not quite a year but was carrying a torch for his ex...in fact his ex also seemed to be carrying a torch for him as well. They have been in communication since they broke up but now she is rushing into marriage with someone else and he is broken up over it...but despite being shattered about his ex...he is remaining with this other person also talking about how nice and wonderful she is. The parallels between the two threads are quite striking...in both cases they have settled for "sloppy seconds" but if the ex came back around those "sloppy seconds" would be dumped in a heartbeat. Total disregard for the feelings of the new person.