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rich_1517

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  1. rich_1517
    well thanks strong one. i dont know about the move yet. it was actually a big sticking point for me for a while. i have a lot family and memories in another state and miss it very much. she knew this and i had to learn to accept that if we were together that her and her ex hubby share the kid 50/50 so moving was out if we were together. but i dont want to just run. i want it to be based on really being ready for this to be over finally and completely before i do it. but also that its now what i really want. truth is she lives an hour away, and our paths dont cross socially at all. so there really isnt a problem. neither of us has shown up unannounced. i imagine the whole thing will just politely and cordially disappear like so many things in her life. fro someone who wants passion in her life she doesnt know how to work that motor very well. passion lives or dies on risk, action, and chance. not her strong points, but also not my concern anymore. wow, i just said that didnt I? hmmm.
  2. rich_1517
    wow im floored. you guys have written a collection of forgiveness, acceptance, forethought, reflection and growth into a thread that is a real chemistry for healing and probably one of the best plans for winning someone back (if thats to be) that i have seen. i realised that if my ex hadnt left i would have continued to accept less then i deserved in a relationship, also true she would have let things decay as well. whether those realisations lead to us back together or someone new for me, i now see where i went wrong and it took an ending to bring it out. i also was living in my own lack of change and growth and using the relationship as a sheild. true my life is still very hard in some ways and change will take time, but im devoted to it becuase the alternative is unacceptable. i want to be happy. for me, now its letting go. even though she calls once, twice a week its not what i want or need that she offers. so not so much a plan as a path, one that doesnt require me to give away too much of myself, a relationship will not grow or survive on one person trying, so I will not try anymore. i will focus my attentions on growth and acceptance, when she calls i will be friendly and well just myself. the best thing i can do in this situation is secure a job that fits my long term plans. the other key piece is to plan fun things to do every week, this is something i have let go in the past, so camping, comedy, shows, etc. have to exist.
  3. rich_1517
    dont shoot me. since she isnt with someone else but im dating i am going to leave the door open a crack. i will do two weeks of no contact by me, no meetings, no family stuff. i will watch how she behaves during this time while i do other things. then when her kids dad gets back and shes free again see what she does. if she calls i may suggest coffee, or let her suggest something. obviously she isnt done yet. the details she tells me about, the times she calls says she is still confused. but i cant trust her, i can forgive her though. i am finding forgiving makes it easier, people fall out of love all the time and holding onto the anger and resentment means im not forgiving myself for choosen her and letting this happen on my side either. as long as i hold on the anger i cant grow or walk away. you should try it. well i booked this weekend up solid with dates, im ready for it. its been too long without real physical or emotional contact. so i will let it happen with C the girl i used to date. the sub plot here is still remaking me: getting in great shape, continueing to look for a "career job"quit smoking, diet changes, more fun and rebuild me as i want.
  4. rich_1517
    Curbie in my own research i found that "in love" and passion are not so spontaneously created as we would think. its based on the real and perceived meeting of needs. there is also stale and boring as a problem. suggest you dont do dinner, unless you supposed to talk as the meeting. maybe go skating, water park or something fun then talk. i did that last week but in my case im dealing with a rock. i wish i had an answer for you. she will have to start talking about what might be wrong. if she wants to save it you need to know where you got off track and is she willing to work on it.
  5. rich_1517
    well i decided that no contact isnt what i want yet. we talked, meaningless of course. i was very tired. so i let her chat. she wanted to know about my weekend i just said low key no details. i have to now see how hard this is or not. she knows i have said i am going to date so at some point she is going to ask. but its more how i feel as i listened to her talk about her weekend with her son and the plans (which im not in) for this weekend, i saw myself there doint those things. its very sad. i will let one or two more happen before i make a decision. she is hard as a rock, she doesnt know or she doesnt want to know that this hurts me. as far as i can see she feels nothing towards me. damn
  6. rich_1517
    hi curbie cant look now at you rpost but i will. my advice is to listen very carefully when she says she doesnt feel in love anymore, then pay attention to the actions as well. if you are getting a lot of calls and invites but no romance at all. she could be playing it safe for some reason which could be one of these or many others, be careful 1. she doesnt want an intimate relationship anymore but misses you 2. she likes the power 3. she is unsure, but open (that one is actually the hardest) 4. shes bored and lonely, and you are available 5. she is absolutely confused 6. there is a change in behavoiur or attitude she is looking for. have you done an inventory of what she may have said before that she wanted but wasnt getting? just dont run to her with an AHA i get it. start changing those things if they suit you and you want her back. its very powerful. if she is talking about the relationship you are in better shape then i am. remember if she sees you as a friend she wont talk about much because she sees no value in it, meaning the past is past. dont blame yourself for n/c when they also contact you its harder to maintain. but my feeling is when they dont feel "in love" anymore believe it, and give them all the room in the world to see for themselves. keep conversations short. but dont pressure her. i will read your post later.
  7. rich_1517
    thanks scout. wow i read what you say about me and well thanks. doesnt go to my head, but it feels good. im honored that you would see me that way. you also have been thoughtful and very sharp in your feedback and adressing your own situation. cool. i will have to let this sit for a day. yeah its pretty messed up when an ex does this. how in the hell i picked someone who could be this inconsiderate i have no idea. in the end its up to me to set the boundary. i can wish this different in so many ways, even as friends. but i have to make the call on this. I have to assume she cant be trusted right now. hard decision but she has shown she can walk all over the line between friend and more without a moments hesitation. it reminds me of a teenager (no offense to our teen listeners) you know the "golly i didnt know i was hurting you, im sorry" i will not be rude, but i may make her wait some time before calling back. just be busy, perhaps i will choose that path overall and just let her die on the vine. dont know, i feel that a call or any move by me is wrong right now. time has to pass for either way to happen - missing me enough to change her heart, me having distance to let go and move on. grrrrrrr.
  8. rich_1517
    well she is calling as expected. i look in the mirror now and i see me, the old me with some new twists. stronger and a hell of a lot more grounded. i have been actively greiving then doing other things. i dont let myself dwell too long on her or the past. I have been thinking about what might be next. i would still want her back IF she was truly wanting something to happen. based on her behaviour i doubt she is doing much more than making sure i dont forger her. this time at least she left a message, so i feel i should respond. i think if a conversation starts i MAY apologise for the dating commnet. i dont know, i really dont want to show too much of me right now. so i think its rule 2 of no contact, short and sweet, im fine how are you. ideally i would love her to turn around in time to go to san diego, i dont see that happening. i will plan to call back when i know i can only leave a message, then be unavailable again. so heres the question. if we assume the possibility she may change her feelings now that i wont play anymore by her rules, how should i proceed. i feel that i need a ground that allows me to keep moving away but not freeze her out. if on the other hand she just keeps saying "hi" with nothing else. then i may ask her to not call for a while. this is really tricky she may suggest getting together. and you know what i really want to. but unlike other no contact situations we know she sees me as a friend. i think at least another week has to pass before i would consider anything. i dont want to get hurt again. i now really understand that seperation CLEAR seperation where both parties can walk away is the only way to go, its also the only way to get her want me. i am realising i have been selling me way short. there are very good reasons she should miss me and have doubts about replacements. we made a very good couple. for my shortcomings i was also a very good man for her to have. i will leave a message. short and sweet, i can call her work phone saying i didnt want to bother her on her cell in case she was in a meeting. but you know she will call back...... ideas?
  9. rich_1517
    bottom line - there is nothing to do now but focus on me. i have to heal and see what i want. she needs the time for herself to see how she feels with no pressure from me either direct or implied. i will only ask her to forgive the dating comment as it really was manipulative and wont answer any questions about dating itself, just say i dont think its appropriate. perhaps later. "even heroes have the right to bleed" (five for fighting - superman)
  10. rich_1517
    hmmm. ok i get it again. Ziggy i had to look at the anger i felt at your post. emotional dependence. you were right. she left at a time when i really needed support so her leaving just added to it. i think even though we think we have become emotionally stronger, we still long for them and desperately want it just back the way it was. so even in our best efforts, we still are holding our breath waiting for things to become normal (as we see it) again. so crap, i think she is cautious for her own reasons, i am very controlled for mine. so if i could step back and do part of this over it would be the last thing (of course) telling her i would date. but bottom line, i have to let go for real. im not going to post for a couple days on purpose. i am going to see if i can stop thinking about it for an entire day before rethinking a damn thing. my life needs attention still so thats where i will go. but if she asks again if I will go to san diego i may say let me think about it. im done for a while
  11. rich_1517
    well i just have to do this and recycle my mental junk, dont read too hard into it. all these things are true depending on how you look at it. maybe she wanted the three days in san diego as a hope that she would feel more. that a trip would bring us closer together. she has not said i love you, kissed me or really touched me with any real closeness in three months. she is confused she calls at least once a week without fail i asked for her to be willing to talk trough what happened in hopes that we could rebuild from there. she said i cant, i see you more as a friend now. i said nothing can happen without wanting it to. i cant make it happen alone. she asked what does this mean? i said it means i start dating and being open to something new. she said she didnt like that at all. i said that doing what we are doing will ultimately fail because its too safe. she said maybe this will now change her feelings. she doesnt trust herself around me, she will not let go physically. she doesnt like to look at her feelings, she can let go much easier than i can. i am very sad, we both contributed to the failure, i think she may have been more afraid to committ emotionally while i was afraid to committ relationally (move in, marriage). so heres where i am today: i am second guessing my decision, i wonder if in fact i had just pulled away some, not pressed for a comittment and just did something else if it would turn out ok. that maybe san diego, or some other trip would have been the thing. i have to think about this because we will probably talk at some point and options may come again. I think i had to establish some fear of loss, and respect. but maybe i didnt have to push it. we spent an entire day together and it went from lite kisses on the mouth back to a hug (ok this is pathetic). but i did accept that this could take time i just have trouble with the idea that it could take that much time. ok vented.
  12. rich_1517
    hey Ziggy very good points. at least about her emotional needs. she doesnt even know shes overwhelmed or wont openly acknowledge it. this is where being someone who refuses to let lifes ups and downs gets you pays off for her. she actually is more or less ok. i didnt set out to give to get back same. i gave intentionally without condition knowing i could lose all. the idea was to give her support and be there. i am not angry about that. i knew what i was doing, it was to try and win us back. the part i was saying about you shouldnt show up if you know your feelings arent there was what was making me mad. its selfish, i have been there and sometimes knowingly an unknowingly done it. its nice to be wanted and loved. so i can see its hard for her to let me go. but if you dont want what i want dont take what you cant return. so i had to do it myself, not let her take it. about being needed? actually we know she needs me, she wont let go. but umm, my needs are so out of the picture its stupid. sure she takes care of two now, i guess thats one of the drags about failed marriages. very hard to start something new with a lot of emotional needs coming with the deal. but you know what? i accepted that and my role. some perspective here, i dont chase her, i dont call her. she calls, she plans. i just stopped the planning and future based on what was happening. i said i need you to committ to work on it or i have to go. not an unfair thing to ask for single mom at all considering i help out quite a bit with kid and house, she knows what came with the deal. i cant cut her that much slack anymore. but all that said, love must flow naturally not be pushed. desire, comfort and intimacy after all the tactics and no contact, etc, etc, etc. must be allowed to just happen. in my case we couldnt get ther.
  13. rich_1517
    yes strong one i am better. i decided to make yesterday a sad one. i realised that rushing to date could hurt me or set me back. so i scoured the web for songs, you know sad ones. then my roomate from england invites me to go to the pub (shes english) so i say sure. had a great time. im going to try to balance it out, some sad, some action, some reflection, some physical exertion. treating the problem. i have to prepare myself now and accept it as over some, i cant use the words yet or agree with someone who talks about better off kind of conversation. i still love her a lot. but i really am getting to a point of desiring out of sight out of mind, meaning i really dont want to see her with those apathetic feelings going on now. i did it thanks, it hurts. it will make it hard to talk to her now, that fear. she doesnt realise how selfish it is to take what cant be returned, she has no right to my love at this moment. and yes im sticking to that. i will have weak moments, i will want to call, i will compare other women to her, etc. but it will only set me back. the only piece i have to keep half an eye on, is her fear now. if she starts to turn a corner but thinks i have moved on she may not take a chance. i know what some of you are thinking right now.. too bad for her... but if she makes a move towards me i have to encourage it without changing my conditions. yeah two weeks, three i dont know. i may let contact (phone) happen later this week just to clear up the one comment, then be upbeat, etc, etc. then get off, even if she wants to talk. i dont want to make her swing as i did, but yes we both need time to stop trying so damn hard. i think she felt she was trying too, that dates were effort for her to show up for this guy who loved her, and maybe, blah blah. but maybe with no effort happening true seperation can occur. im not optimistic about it, she will choose the easier path, i represent old feelings and work to her. she will justify now that she was right in her choices. for whatever reason she blocked me out, consciously or unconsciously. its kind of selfish to show up with that going on. that part i will have to learn over time to forgive.
  14. rich_1517
    hey well i can relate. you have to let him go for a while. thing is no one not even you can get focused with the amount of nervous energy you are pumping into this. like it or not we are not healthy for the realtionship when we are like this. when one person wants space and the other chases (even one phone call) they feel pressure and want to run further. I know thats hard to hear. believe me, but you cant change his mind right now. my ex has stayed in limbo with me for three months of "friends" calling all the time, wanting to be together. but she hasnt had to miss me until now. anyone can tell you to be nice to yourself now, to stay busy, that this is what you need to do. if he cant say i love you, or make a committment to you now. you must let him go if he says he wants to go. only you can do it, you have to ask yourself if you see this working the way it is. If you accept the conditions under which you currently connect, you calling, him not calling. that is how it will be. there is no reason for him to change if he doesnt have to. also side note, break your thoughts into sentences and paragrpahs like this. it allows us to understand and hopefull help better. i know it hurts, you will be ok.
  15. rich_1517
    well here we go AGAIN. she called i did not answer. because umm i dont know what to say. im sure she is either going to say something meaningless or invite me to do something with her and her son. i want her to turn around, i really do. i dont want to be ice cold but i have to be firm right? so what the hell is my boundary line and how do i say it? having already learned she isnt emotionally aware right now. and just reacting. this is way too soon for anything significant. i have to block her out for few days at least. then call back I packed my weekend and of course left my cell home. which isnt a bad idea at all, make it true. i just need a couple more days right now. we will need at least a couple weeks at a guess. I GET IT NOW, wow. the hard thing is closeness as friends is important, but i want it a little closer than that LIKE BY A WHOLE FREAKING LOT! sorry lost it. point is i can outlast her, i dont want her to give up hope, but she cant have the cake and sweet bits too. crap i may have to do the "i was busy" "what day?, shoot cant" "tonight? um not a good idea" god i hate this. i want her back but i have to find a way to keep seperation in for it to work i think. she has to "feel" my loss to feel more. damn damn damn
  16. rich_1517
    hmmm. i like that i start a lot of my posts that way. i come hear to emotionally umm, well, vomit. i need to and to do the analysis so that in the moment of choices im not stuck. if i hadnt used this site to locate my boundaries and establishing respect as an absolute, i wouldnt have been able to leave on the nights she asked me stay. man was i giving away power like so many pennies.
  17. rich_1517
    Wow. thats the reaction i had to your posts Ziggy, Strong 1, and GeeCee. where did you guys develop such collective wisdom? wait, i know pain. i mean the compliment, you are loaning me strength. thanks, and your insights and expereince are great. your posts were what i needed. i am really hurting over the opportunities lost now. she and her son are doing a weekend thing, and i am having the forever thing happening. "ill never be there". your points are great. 1. dont overdue books, forum -> very true, was staying off posting, the book unfortunately was a pattern of hope. the books arent about blame, the opposite, they have been about emotionally owning during a seperation, but gee that takes two dont it? 2. i did right. yeah i did, even i cant fault that. i showed up in the face of no hope many times without breaking down, pressuring, anger or conditions until the last. but i couldnt really 100% relax, thats the result of the conditions she set. so yeah my reasons to her that it would fail are sound too. 3. breather is good for us both. absolutely. this is the time i do take care of myself, have a coke and a smile. still want to quit smoking though. too expensive. 4. pull myself together. yes strong one, keep it coming. donit live in hope and dont live in no hope. its weird though i become the dumper now in a way. imagine if your ex came back and wanted to date (whatever conditions) and you said basically, no. 5. did all i could to get her back. its true too. i think i approached it very well. it may have been too late, or, or, or. but the hope others should have in getting someback is there is reasonably good experience to be taken from in how i approached it. my actions were based on a combination of impulse control, listening and providing support, attention and boundaries. read the actions i did, not the vents so much and you will see that commong thread. i almost called her last night to say "sorry about the dating comment, it was reactive and manipulative." of course i didnt, but thats the point of staying busy, cant over think. and yes stop analyzing. i have overdone it, used tactics to win her back that required a lot of pre thought. now i have to drop it. its treating obssession and longing all over again. meditate, work out, breathe. yep all over again. the key is to never, ever act on an impulse or obsessive thought. it never goes right. thanks guys. i appreciate it, please keep it coming. i do dump here but dont read too far into what i say, i learned to let go of my worst and best feelings and hopes here. the way i act in the world is very different.
  18. rich_1517
    well now im really feeling like crap. i started to read a book about relationships. and i feel the same thing i felt in week one. that her two months deciding period would prevent a real reconcilliation. the best studies say that seperation. "real" seperation with independent growth are the only recoveries that really work. i know there are a million books out there but. think it through. there hasnt been a week since break up that she doesnt call. i allow her to, what else should i do? shut her out? I really dont call, but i have been available. what a miserable game. i chose growth, because i accepted the two months and the five weeks of dating she saw no reason to change. so i end it. the absolute worst executed plan. i allowed a situtation that became intolerable to me to force a closure based on "im going to date others" meaning i give up. so i did it not her. she didnt really try, i know that. but i could have pushed the button a different way and sooner. im very very tired. the successful reconciliations are just seperations without quitting completely. both parties agree to separate. overly idealistic? sure. but without being too hard on myself. i feel like crap. i really miss her, i really miss us. im hurting really bad.
  19. rich_1517
    wow, well that got a response. thanks, hard feedback but needed. as we all know down moments and self doubt come into this all the time. games and ideas for "control" are always there. the key is to not act on them until sure. GeeCee - how did she make her feelings about a future clear? strong one, etc. not long at all. but its not me intiating contact, i actually dont call her much, i started to resume normal contact like people dating but then i pulled the plug on the whole thing. thats why im having doubts. the trip to san diego. the thing i have to remember is why i pulled the plug. i have been trying, i have put myself in a vulnerable position. she has not tried nor showed any willingness to try to be truly open or vulnerable. as long as i keep that in mind then moving away slowly (no contact by me), is easy. there is nothing to be gained. but.. what do i do when she contacts? i dont have that answer yet. seeing women helps me, and its not a string. but you know what it feels good. there isnt any sex, but its nice to have the attention but more importantly to give it and see its results. I am working on myself, very very hard. part of that is letting things just be. thats hard. im reacting a little becuase i see some judgements about dating. i understand but have you ever done it? its very hard to make the first step, but once i opened myself up to it as healing i got easier. i dont want a relationship right now, but you know if one happened i wouldnt stop it. she will call, its just like week one of NC all over again. or maybe, just maybe she gets it. dont show up with nothing to offer. there is no way for her to see my dating, we dont cross paths at all on this. i dont know how to say and to not say. i think what comes natural (as she would say) is the best path. my answer to her question would be "im not sure i want to talk about it" in hindsight i wish ihadnt said im going to date and look for something new. she may feel she was trying. i pushed when she said give me a week to think about what you said "blocking her feelings" i said i need a committment to work on this. i never said goodbye, but saying i am going to date and look for something new does say it. so gee. how do i back that off to just blwing her off?
  20. rich_1517
    crap.... im thinking again. i can see her block to her feelings clear as day. she cant. she misses me when i am gone. then when together she is guarded. she either wants to say i well i did a good job or have some emotional breakthrough that lets her feel again. oh man. this is what i am thinking. let the weekend pass. she knows me, she knows when i say i am giong to start dating its going to happen, she knows i meet very easily. so lets let that happen for the weekend. the next thing would be wait for the phone call. it could be any phone call. then suggest, i dont know want to date while i am dating others, think that would be safe enough for us both? that presents a quandry for her. ooops gotta go finish later.
  21. rich_1517
    hmm. first i wnt to say thank you guys, no one was responding to my posts for a while and i felt well kind of alone so i used the site to just vent my head and heart. thanks heres some things in my head about her. she is kind but selfish. the dates, the waiting really could be "jesus he loves me, he cares and i just dont want it anymore. but im a jerk if i dont acknowledge it somehow, at least look like im trying so im not a B#$ch." that could be very very true. these are two scenarios i see now. she has been repressed, so have i. a lot of work without much advance romantically. and you know that aint fun overall. so based on her past she may now go nuts for a while. i dont care actually i just dont want to know details. scenario two is she really is stuck. she knows she loves me and cant find that missing piece. she definitely was unhappy when i said "well it means its time for me to start dating and looking for something new" her words were i dont like that at all. scenario two for her to come back would require pain at this point. i mean real discomfort. i dont want that for her, but anybody familiar with change knows that we dont do it unless it hurts. thats where she would have to be. to be desperate enough to say "ok i know i dont want to look at my feelings, and i hate it, what do we do?" that i can work with. and of course last but not least is the slow process of evaporation. where i am no longer putting in effort. she will just shut off her remaining feelings and there will be nothing left. she doesnt know the road back, without me to show it, or someone she would listen to, she will just move on. thats her style. sigh.
  22. rich_1517
    GeeCee you are funny, youth elixer, you mean dating? oh you mean my profile. hmm needed to change it. NC is not my goal, its the walking away visibly, i will not think about how i need or what it means. that makes it like an addiction (very true) and makes me want to run back. no its more day by day attitude of if you want nothing more, then nothing will be said about it. so i dont need to be negative or put conditions on it. but i am stuck on invites. i may pull the game of not this time but its ok to ask. its too soon to plan a path right now. i have to stay in my emotions, letting go, see me as new, and not look too far forward. i am very frustrated as the person who said their ex cant or wont face their own feelings. in my case i know its the answer, its obvious. if she would face her fears and anger, etc. she could unhook the block. but she is so trapped in it she cant see it. so much so that when i say it, it bounces right off. in about a week i will write what i think happened here, what to avoid in the future and what i need from a relationship. thanks guys keep it coming.
  23. rich_1517
    i am going day by day now. the loss is hard. i am wanting to go completely no contact. the "ideal" pops into my mind. i mean the cut off, no answered calls, no response. this is hard i am not sure why i wouldnt do this, but i dont know if i really want to continue to let her get little fixes of me at my expense. I dont want to say go away, i need time on that. and no it wouldnt be "go away", it would be "we have to face what this is now, its over, i need you to let me contact you now when i am ready to be your friend and only your friend" I just dont have that yet. does anyone see any reason i should keep communication open at this point? to be fair to both of us i do not want her to feel like i am holding her back and i definitely want her to get the message that i am not holding me back either.
  24. rich_1517
    she called three times today no message. in response to my email im sure. i wont call back. im holding out a 1/10 hope that this will turn her. i cant afford more then that. i cant allow myself too much caring. but how should i respond when she calls? how much should i tell her about dating? the two women we will call J and C are very beautiful and she knows them. I was dating her and C three years ago, and chose her. J she knows from me buying a bracelet for her from J, shes a former model and well, it doesnt get any better in terms of sweetness and beauty, i dont like jealousy. but i am being honest about my intentions with everyone, its distraction and occupying my time. my temptation if/when she asks is to say, i dont want to bring manipulation or jealousy into it. then if she asks again tell her the truth. I told C that i care for her feelings, that i am rebounding and its ok i just like seeing her. She said "can we have a fling then?" jesus. ummm sure i think. i have to relearn no contact. but.. with the added caveat that any getting together is based on a committment or at least a desire from her. if she has a desire for me then the rest follows. not counting on it. still difficult. i dont like the loss but i can live with it. there are really bad moments, and some real return of self, and direction. i had a moment when i considered getting back together with C, the whiplash was immediate, deep longing for my ex. better watch that.
  25. rich_1517
    you guys are great. i sent her an email about money this morning, just saying hey i know and you may be worried, i am taking care of it. the email was considerate and very dry. i didnt realise the shift in my tone of everything right now. its polite but distant, like someone i havent talked to in a while. its weird. no i wont do angry becuase that says that the changes, the support, and all my efforts had a hook beyond unconditional love. so no i will be friendly and nice but firm on space now. lets remember that she left, came back and basically said well we can date and see. i asked her monday, if the roles were reversed would you stay? she said no. the two points you guys raised, one that she might not feel safe enough to deal with her feelings is kind of true but its more about her not feeling as though theres anything to share or change (second point). she says i want to try more, she says she wants more passion, but she is lazy lets face it. she never wanted to work on herself during the relationship why would she now? she doesnt change, she resists it like plague, i gravitate towards it. so there ya go.
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