rich_1517

hhmmm. well guys if you are still there... say something, want your feedback. i can pull the plug on this if i want to and say, you know i applied pressure, and i dont feel thats right. if you are feeling that i am forcing you into this then it isnt right. if you want to find someone new or want the chance to, then i will let you go. i still believe but it takes two. and my feelings do matter enough to me not to burn them again. if you want we can let go and see each other as friends in the fall or revisit if we arent both involved later, if you are curious if we would have made it. i would suffer a lot doing that, but i would live with it for a while i think. i also think she would still want to try something, i dont know. but i have to accept that if i am the only one, then she will take me for granted again. but it is weird she is different. or i am. when i saw her the other night, she kept getting a ridiculous giddy smile on her face as she looked at me. it wasnt humor, it was joy. this was after i asked her to take me back and she said she was now confused. well we will see how monday plays out.

well all these little details add up to not much but... i am clearer, i knew we left details out about monday and next week. but didnt feel it was important to call. so i just didnt, so she called to finalise details. i am thinking really hard on what i am doing. i deserve more than i see. and to hear. its true i may need more pain to let go, but do i? i had a nice time with L today and we will see each other tuesday again. but i kept thinking about the ex. i can tell she was thinking about me, but what does it add up to? dating while trying to get back is like going to the body shop so you can go to the demolishing derby again. i miss her, but i miss the her that loved me. and if i have to see someone who doesnt while i do, i have to look real hard at why. she becomes someone else to me and i have to see that. i must because i cannot make her into what she was.

hi geecee, long time, i hope you are well. how are you? havent seen posts so i imagine you are dating. well now you got me thinking. i did "plead' no matter how you dress it up. i did respond to her comment and push the "take me back" button. its the only thing i could see at the time. im the worker bee, she has trusted me to see what she cant in the past. but she is rock hard when it comes to what she wants. and if she wants someone new then im dead. she has seen her own life of settling for loves in her life and wants more. i dont fall into that catagory for her, she says about her ex, he was a screwed up guy and the other was just her first love. in me she sees all things she wants but she wants "life". that adds up to feeling alive for her, it isnt complex. she is lazy, so i am taking advantage of that. she has never gone out and "gotten" friends or romance. i need to let her see me, then back off and compare again. but i have to think really hard about what i am doing. she could say yes and not be into it which could be distastrous. fact is i dont know what else to do. i love her we are good together. my life seems be built around change lately. i just found out i have to move again and i lost the job i had. its nothing im doing its just how things are working out. i think the universe is trying to tell me something. so i have to find a new place, but i think the job thing is what is supposed to happen. truth is my industry pays more then what i have been doing but i have avoided it becuase of the economy. now its changed, maybe it will be different.

i set some boundaries that are possible glimpses of the real future. we talked about the waterpark. i told her that i am starting to feel worried about her son and my role. that without a commitment, i will over time be gone. and is that fair to him? i love him and want to be there, but is continuing a connection a good idea? I told her that if we have a committment its ok. so I asked are you seriously considering it? she said absolutely, so i said ok, waterpark it is. my plan? have a great time, sneak in a kiss. then give space again except for planning the camping trip. i dont know why she agreed, but we will definitely know a lot by the end of the weekend that we didnt know before. intimacy is kind of hard to avoid camping. i will let us just connect or not next weekend, and after ask her again if she will commit and restate the reasons why. - four months and we are still connected - finding replacements that meet our needs will take more time then rebuilding what we have, and what we have is pretty good - a willingness to be honest can change the reasons we went wrong - i will back off if you arent into it but mostly i will keep demonstrating (not saying) the benefits of me. the relationship yes, but not me. thats where the confidence comes back into it. becuase while i was a beaten dog she could lose respect, i have communicated thats not ok on so many levels. with respect returning, desire and trust may open more. i cannot change her feelings directly or what her real motives and goals are, i can only influence them and hope that her feelings turn on their own.

i told her that i am concerned now for her son more then my feelings. that come and go might be harder on him then just gone. that if we have a committment i have no problem being around and with him becuase there is a possibitlity. i asked her is she seriously considering comitting? she said yes, then i said ok we can do something monday with her son. so we are on now for waterpark monday, then the two of us camping next week. i am realising i am much better then i was. im not very nervous or thinking through what i will do or say. this is much better, perhaps its also becuase while i dont want her to let go, i do think i will survive it.

well I dove back in. i am stronger and not as weak and nervous as i felt, point in fact i told her this when we saw each other. that i was not at my best. that everything in my life plus the break up flattened me. but thats over. she had sent me an email about the time i did a drive by call. --------------- opening i just called to say hi. it started to become chit chat, we obviously missed each other. i had been feeling very low, and that the "dating" we did was just her way of hanging on to me without a commitment. but i was missing her so much that i gave in after drawing a hard line of if you cant commit to me i have to move on. that was a month ago, and after repeat calls from her after to invite me to do things with her and her son, i didnt give in on any of it. i told her you know how i feel, yes i miss you too but.. so as i started to get off the phone and she said "coffee?" i said sure. ------------------- where we are now ok so we meet, and i apologise saying im only human, had missed her but nothing had changed. she asked if she should leave, i said should you? i said you can no easier turn me into a friend then i can make you love me again. that to do anything would be a lie. that to work i would have to care less or she would have to miss me enough to want more. ---------------- the plea but with confidence then we talked. without going into all the detail. she misses me, she doesnt think her feelings will return. at that i started to get misty, but i didnt actually cry, so i said "just take me back". and then it started. she hates that i am dating, she wants to know if i will date her but we date others. i said no. i want a comittment of six months to see if we can make it work. she says she is getting older (31 im 43) and wants to have another kid soon so her son isnt too old for a sibling. i said these days it easier to let go an move on then it is to try, but finding someone new is harder. and for people like us its even harder (unique and compatible) ------------------- trust i kept at it, i told her again everything about us that works, that she didnt trust me enough to be close, that she hasnt trusted anyone to make it work. she said i trust you more than anyone in my life. i said well you didnt tell the man you loved he was screwing up big time. she said i dont want to hurt anyones feelings. i said thats what trust is, you take the chance to say what you feel you must, but know i will love you after. ---------------------------------- her doubts so she said well now im confused. so she brought up dating again. but she said "what if i meet someone i want and we arent working out?" i said well we can end it anytime, but i would like us to try. she said what if it doesnt work out, well just have to do this again. i said maybe, but we wont have any doubts. she said im concerned about you taking care of health (smoking, other then that i am in fantastic shape) she said im concerned about finances, i told her if we were together i would not start another business without her agreeing (i got brutalised by the economy and didnt let go soon enough) so she said i need some time to decide. can i call you tomorrow? i said sure. ----------------------------- the kiss we then went to dinner, and touched, tickled and wrestled. as i went to leave we kissed, then we kissed, and i left the last one on her lips and said that was nice, ill talk to you tomorrow. for anyone who doesnt know the story she avoided kisses for all of our "dates". this was one of the sweetest most connected kisses we have ever had. i ended it early on purpose. so she would want more. ---------------------- camping so she called, and said i cant decide today, its too fast. i said i understand. want to go camping next weekend? she said but i wont have my son, i said i know, think you can handle camping alone with me? she said yes. ------------------ the son so then she asks if i will do something with her son on monday. this has bothered me in the past becuase it was getting her cake and eating it too. meaning all the friendship but no relationship. so i did what i friend suggested i said ok, but after i will tell her i cant do this much without a committment, its confusing for me, but i think its not fair for your son. if we arent together he will have to get used to me then me gone and then perhaps never around at all. bear in mind she wigged when i asked her "lets say its three years from now are you at my wedding, will you be able to answer you really tried?" thoughts welcome.

hmmm feel weird this morning. i dont expect much from her. i know pushing for a comittment from someone who is definitely unsure is not the best idea, but she is confused so i took the chance. she was searching my eyes a lot, she said she wants to find her feelings even now. i told her that it comes from needs being met. but i am bargaining and bargaining. i swore i wouldnt plead. the way i did it wasnt very pleading or begging but the content sure is. im thinking of telling lets get together tonight, no tlaking just go do something.

tomorrow i may feel like crap but for tonight i am a rock star! we met. we chatted, then she asked about her son missing me and would it be ok to... i said i made a mistake, im only human but i missed you and nothing has changed. she said shuold i go? i said should you? then we dove into it. i said, you can no easier make me into a friend then i can make you love me again. that anything in there based on that would be a lie. eventually she said she doesnt think her feelings will return. i started to get misty but kept a rigid face. she came and held my arm and then i said "just take me back". then it got to where we are, she cant stand that i am dating, i said look forward five years and you are at my wedding (she said dont say that!) and ask your self if you think we really tried. i said i came back to the table with only what i had done and would change. but i had hoped you would come with what you thought you did. i said your fears and lack of trust played a big part, dont you think? she said i trust no one more than you. i said you couldnt even tell the man you love he was screwing up. she said she hates to disappoint anyone, i said thats trust you dummy, that i would still love you after you told me. so I said commit to me for six months, work on it. for gods sake its been four months already and where have we gone? she said we would have to do this all over again if it didnt work. i said maybe, but we wouldnt have any doubts left. she said she was concerned about her age and time ticking, she said she would want to date in case. i had answers for all of them. she said she is also enjoying her independence, i said i never asked you to give it up. she said now i am confused. i said "just take me back, you cant see there from here, but it will be ok." she said can we talk about tomorrow? i said of course, but no dating, i want a committment for six months. we deserve that much. so we went to dinner after and just chatted. then as usual we started wresting and tickling. as i left we kissed, it was a very, very nice kiss. i left the last one on her lips told her that was nice and would talk to her tomorrow. there were other high points, i got her to admint she wouldnt let me go, that she cant connect me dating and all the phone calls with meaning she feels more then friends? but as i said tonight i will let myself feel like a king, for tomorrow i may be lost, but i tried, and i may not stop trying. I got to tell her i was not myself for this last round of dating, and she could see the difference. she also saw i was in great shape (while she had on about 15 pounds, to me she looked great.) well wish me luck. i know i am pushing, i know i am manipulating, i know i am throwing it in there, but wasnt i already just without the action? cheers.

i will try to keep my posts informative if not too boring. i know i have to show up and be myself, but... nothing is free anymore. seeing is free, talking to me is free. if that is enough for her. ok. but no extra efforts. this is ironic. i hadnt checked my email before i called. she had sent me a joke. this she never does. so we both missed each other. but.... nothing of substance adds up to nothing of substance so.. i am going to try and recreate the conditions under which we originally got together. i was dating someone else, i went on one date with her then didnt follow up. she blew me off for the second request (i would too). the other girl was ok with me dating as she didnt want a serious relationship either. yes thats C. the ex then proceeded to show up at my house "visiting" my roomate for three months until i kissed her. so what would that look like now? same thing. me aloof but friendly, keep rebuilding my future and confidence, and very importantly be just me. she has already noticed im not talking about me much at all and letting her talk about herself a lot. the nice thing i dont have to extend myself with this plan, she either responds or she doesnt, i just call now and then. she will probably ask about doing something this weekend, maybe not. but i have to play it a little cool but not BS cool. this will be hard but if she invites me to do something this weekend with her and her son, i will say i would love to but booked. maybe next?

well we talked and we talked, i was flat on purpose. nothing new in either of our lives. so after much of the talk and talk we kept losing signal, so I started to say "wel it was..." and she said "want to do coffee?". i said sure, she said later today, i said sure. well this is going to be interesting. i still smoke damnit. i wonder if i can make it through....

well i called. god help me but i am not done yet. to your own heart be true. the fact is the obsessing has been worse, the loss very hard. i am not done. maybe i need more pain to finish, or there is hope. she was excited to talk to me, she has been thinking about me a lot. she was getting ready and is going to call from the road, i said well call me back when its convenient. she said no no i want to call you now. so I will have to keep it short, i will have to have an exit plan to this conversation. i want to see her, i want to do something with her. i am obsessing and not letting go. am i supposed to? my heart is a strange animal, many times in my life i have seen this. i have it, i take it for granted or something else happens, and then when it ends i suffer like no tomorrow. i guess the plan is to let her drive the conversation. to make a suggestion to get together. or to talk again soon. i will treat it as first contact after no contact, limited feelings, just i wanted to say hi and catch up.

ok someone remind me whats going to happen if i call? i cant stand it. god i sound like a wuss. but the truth it ever minute of the day i think about her. why? for over a year i tried to get her to open up to me, to see she was blocking off intimacy for some reason. hell its why all of her relationships have failed. so what makes me think she will see it differently now? i dont feel any better, yes i am stronger but it feels like an ending and real loss now, no ambiguity becuase i removed it. she asked if we could talk again. i said not unless you know what you want. she said then i guess we will talk sometime. i want her back, there has to be some middle ground. what the hell is wrong with me?

im trying i really am. i am so tempted to call. but i drew a line in the sand to go back on it now would throw away my power completely. i dont understand her i really dont. i think we all say that, but even you guys havent been able to figure out what makes her tick. so its almost two weeks since we spoke, and a month since we saw each other. the conversation was me saying "is the romance over?" she said i dont know, can we talk tomorrow? or sunday? i said i dont see any need to have contact unless you know what you want. was i too harsh? this is so hard. i miss her so much a part of me wants to throw in the towel and say please. but i cant, and it kills me. i am trying to build a mental tunnel out of little steps in front of me. the end goal is a happier and more fulfilling life. outside the tunnel is none of my business. and guess whats outside the tunnel? this week is when she would call based on history. and this has been painful. i am trying to build a plan to go to a little island off of mexico where i have been many times. finances have been hard but i know if i seek freelance work in my field i can do it. i have every right to be furious with her, i know some that i am angry becuase i imagined some really crappy things and felt ashamed thats where i had gotten to. but i also know that i could have stopped this sooner, we have a choice as to how much we will let someone walk on us. I am just so sad that the person i loved and trusted felt it was ok to abuse my feelings knowingly or not. this was someone who was right there with me for so much and has treated me like crap. but if she came back and was willing to accept that she had shut off her feelings was willing to work on the relationship and what it needed i would fall like a rock. it enrages me that i chose someone who could follow a path that could lead to no possibilitie for reconcillliation. so what to do if she calls? i say if now becuase everything has changed so much. i dont know, i want that chance, but she has to be more open to it happening, anything else would be a lie.

wellC no showed and thats ok. also the other girl dropped off the radar as well. funny now it doesnt bother me, it was nice distraction but im not ready to have my feelings tested yet. but saturdays and sundays are harder without it. it took a lot not to call yesterday and i was very depressed. i cant see further then each day right now. a lot of that is that my life needs attention in so many areas, kind of wish she was here to support that but ok. im going to leave my cell phone home all week and be out at the movies each night. this will be a hard week.

oopps

well i am still hurting. so much has changed for me in the last couple of weeks since i broke it off. each day i fight to not call, i miss her so. but i know what i will get. i am going to see what this week brings, she is now alone (in theory) with no kid. even money says she calls, she has to be feeling the distance like i am friend or no. but she now knows that goes against my wishes so she may not. I want to write a letter and send it (dont we all?) your feedback wanted here here are the bullets (wont boor you with details) 1. miss you as my friend too 2. want you happy with or without me 3. came to table with what i had done wrong 4. hoped you would too 5. see you wanting to fall in love, but not comfortable with being in love, the other reason i didnt move in. see you afraid of someone being too close, sorry if thats judgemental, have to say it friend or no. 6. understand you are doing what you feel is best for you, will respect that and will miss you. this is for closure, i dont know if its time yet, yes there is still a little hope in me that it might turn her. but i am so sad that nothing will wake her up. she only does what she knows. perfect example is she doesnt break up with people, so what did she do? gave me circumstances that i could no longer stand until i broke it off. i dont know how long it will take me to accept this. i have set a path i cannot go back on. i cannot call her i will lose my self respect and hers. seen what that looks like and it sucks. Seeing C tonight (i think, she was vague about it). this truly is a fling as she doesnt call at all to just chat. she has made very clear boundaries, wont spend the night, or have me over, so i am confindent she is in better emotional shape then i am. i dont expect this to last long. i know she wants the attention as do i. but i can see overall this is not the solution but it does bring some relief in companionship and intimacy.

let me think about that. i have a response based on a reaction. im having a bad night after spending time with friends who have all the things i once had. the house, the marriage, the love and closeness and success. im am really in pain right now. but i will think on it.

oh man, i think i am toying with a new idea. this could be ok or it could be really disastrous, i dont know. i think ill call it hot potato. the thing is this has stretched now for four months plus. i understand better what her glitch is. she wants romance, but she is afraid that she can get those things, but the other things i provide as support for a relationship she doesnt know she will get. so if i target say september as a date. and use this time to continue building my life back. but open communication again with her with the specific goal of showing her the value of me over time again. this would mean at least one conversation based on what happened, i can call it whatever i like and it is based on her starting the conversation about relationship in general (long odds there). but if she asks then i can say "you seem to like falling in love, but you dont know what to do with it when you get it. the work relating to keeping a loving partner seems like you dont like it. i can say that to you as a friend, but its been how i see you during and after, that mystery is what you want but once the mystery is gone, the part you might feel comfort in loses some of its value. i hope someday you are willing to look at that. then remind her that my fear of commitment wasnt the only reason i didnt move in, it was also i saw that fear in you of closeness over time. i needed to see that change becuase it was dangerous for me. i couldnt say it till now becuase this time period was about me owning what i had done, and i had hoped you would perhaps see what part you had played. i was sad that the only things were what you said. but i repsect that." and then move on and let it sit for as long as it takes her. the difference is i will not change what i am doing. but i will leave the possibility for communication open. the only thing i would bank on now is that clear seperation is now here, no one "owes" anyone and contact is clearly cut. we both have our lives back and choices. i have to allow the process to take over now. and i have faith that it will work out one way or another. the only wrinkle is that i will stay just out of reach of her until she comes closer or moves on.

im still posting to vent, well dribble out my remaining love but i am still seeking advice. however hard, soft or hopeful. this is still going to take time. she will call this week. people on this forum ask how i know that or isnt it arrogant or presumptious? no i just still know her better then she knows herself. if she doesnt it means she will have moved outside that connection we have which will hurt a lot but will also be yet another signal that its over. she is like a guy "instant gratification" she is looking for an idea now. on the other hand i am turning into something pretty cool. i have grown my hair long and toned out. my date from last weekend sent an email to our hook up friend and said "he has a nice butt and shoulders", but its that internal change, im getting confidently sexy. its nice to have back. i still bounce, yesterday i didnt want to get up, didnt want to do life, but i thought "well what the hell am i going to do? sit here and think about her all day? so i went to work. i am in a better position to exploit an opening now if it presents itself, but thats the key isnt it? i laid down the law the line. if i cross it i am screwing it and me up. i feel things need to be said, but do i? she is still confused and i think questioning things even now. i can help her past some of it but only if she is hurting some. she will have to talk herself into it. if she really is a "falling in love" type but not a "in love" type then i am ruled out unless i am completely chaseable for her. meaning i visibly shut down to her. just flat out not care.

sigh, without being too defensive Strongone, you are empathising with C. i understand that, i do. the reason i chose the ex over C was very simple, "will you ever trust me enough to need me?" her answer was i dont know if i will ever trust anyone that much again. so that is who i am dealing with. she wants attention but no connection right now. her own words. but i promise if she shows any signs at all of wanting more i will remind her where i am at. not to be judgemental but are you asking the same of the women on the site who are now "dating" but hurting? i will not leave a trail of broken hearts as my legacy to integrity of an ending relationship. ok well its been three weeks since i broke it off and now ten days since she and i have spoken, thats now the longest since the break up that she hasnt called. i am trying so hard to be clear, i am. then i miss her and the pain is incredible. i am bashing my head against who she is, the removed, aloof and yet spoiled behaviour. the further i get the more i see, its possible she is a person who loves to fall in love but doesnt do "in love" very well. meaning once she has a relationship she doesnt know what to do. she becomes bored and apathetic. makes more and more sense why she is where she is at now. i still love her, i still want her. i wont sacrifice myself though at any cost to win her. honestly i am a good guy to have, thats why people are trying to set me up, im not particularly cocky, again a plus. i just grew into who i am from an insecure kid. but it really hurts to see all those postives taken for granted. but i have to remember people fall out of love, its not complicated, they just do. its sad when you both cant at the same time. but for me i have to fall out of love with her now. how? the list of less attractive traits i havent wanted to remember. dumping me when i came home and needed her. her lazy and apathetic approach to love. the goal is not to hate her, its to keep the mental snapshot a "real" picture and not an ideal. the fact that she is gaining weight doesnt hurt either. she is very beautiful. and as crappy as it sounds its easier when your ex seems to be losing their looks (boy that does sound bad). fact is i was prepared to grow old and ugly with her, so its someone elses turn.

i wonder if it takes looking into the abyss to see truth. she wants romance in her life, she wants passion, sex and to feel that aliveness that comes from the excitement of desire. she just doesnt want it with me. it makes me very sad but i can understand it, i have been there. i am ready to right the letter. the one that says i wish you well, i want you happy even if its not with me. i understand and someday we will talk. i hope you find what you are looking for.

I dont mess with peoples hearts. i was very upfront about my status and that it would be a long time before i couldnt even think relationship. i have said i am rebounding, i like you i like being with you and i dont want to hurt your feelings, do what you feel is safe for you. both girls i "date" are very tough. they would tell me if the boundary was near. i ended a friendship once because i reliased that she was hanging on for me to change. we had been together for years, then broke up and continued to get together over time, sex, etc. but great friends. she said she was fine with that. i knew she was lying, it took her a whole year to get really mad at me. so maybe now (3 years later) we can be friends. the point is, i have no desire to hurt someone or myself right now. anyway. the pain gets less but the loss grows, as the does the anger. i hold onto very little hope with her, even going there is painful becuase i see just how little i matter. i have to learn to accept that who i loved may not have been who i was in love with. she chooses not to look at herself or her behaviour. i can only say so much or nothing at this point. she truly does not see that she has caused harm. this week will be interesting. this is now the longest she has gone without calling. perhaps she understands now that she must let go. but dont bank on it. there is a lot activity in her life, her sons father gets back, a friend comes in for the weekend. next week will be her time alone without having me in the wings so to speak. thats when i expect her to call. i must keep moving on but i have to plan for how i will respond when/if she calls.

hi strong one. we havent talked in a week and im planning on screening any calls she does make until she says why she called. taunting maybe, unaware? definitely. i dont think she knows this hurts me so right about now she probably feels this is unfair or not. she said she understood my reasons for moving on and for not being able to show up as a real friend. yes i am very angry, i am also using the forum to vent my smashing up against the wall of a painful reality. i havent called her on my own in a month, shes done all the calling. no word from her yet. i am just trying to get through each day until i get clarity. i hope for a day now when either she comes back willing to work on it or i no longer see it as a good idea at all and i can see myself loving someone else as much or more who meets my needs.' i just cant see it now.

each day is different. i miss her still, ia mr ealising she hasnt been much of a friend either. so saying i see you as a friend is a dodge as well. i have never known anyone who moves from lovers to friends immeditately. i know when i end a relationship even if i know i want them as a friend, i dont want it right away, i dont want to see them for a while. so this makes no sense either. does it to anyone else? I mean have you or anyone you have known gone from a long term relationship to "wanting" that person still in your life every week and most weekends? either she is afraid or there is something else. the something else could be someone else and im backup, hence no clear conclusion. but i have decided to put a condition on the friendship. if she wants me to be her friend, i need her to tell me what was wrong with her behaviour as a friend for the last four months? if she doesnt get it. then i will ask it in the form of if i had done ...... how would she feel about me at that point? if she can tell me what was not ok, then ok friends it is, if she has no idea or wont even bother with it, then friends has no foundation and i cant trust her to be honest or accountable even as a friend. and no this isnt about not getting what i want, its about trust and respect. those have taken a severe beating at this point.

i may sound weak, but i am really hurting so bad. i miss her every moment, i didnt think this would happen. why does she have to be this way? i asked point blank is the romance over? she wont even bother to answer that question. i did say no contact is needed unless you know your decision. well i think we know her decision she just doesnt have the guts to say it. soon the point will be moot. i mean if she was afraid if she said its over she would lose a friend. what does she think is happening now? or is she just mad becuase i took away her toy? yes i am angry, talking to her now would be a bad idea. i feel she is dishonest with me and herself. even bad break ups have some discussion about what happened, and why. she has done zero. and you know what? i want the phone to ring. i need to know she misses me. i havent called and its killing me to be where i am now. i had to be the one to cut it off, that sucks. i cant accept its over, i dont know why, its irrational to want someone who cant meet my needs at all. for someone who says im her best friend she has been a lousy friend.