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rich_1517

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  1. rich_1517
    ok well im planning next steps. the end goal is moving in together based on a real discussion of needs and willingness. so for that to happen she needs to show that missing piece, desire. she has said pretty clearly she wants me her in life. that i have most if not all the qualities she wants in a partner. but she wants passion. so that brings us to thursdays "meeting" i will not say date, because her son will be involved. if i was to guess here, this was as close to setting up house as we have come in a very long time. (to son) do you want me to read to you or rich? (to son) do you want rich to spend the night? (to me) will you spend the night later this week? so i believe now that she would like to find real desire and not fake it. my confidence had an impact yesterday. i have to continue on that path. work out, find work, meditate. take stock of the "real" situation, and yes still date. i dont like the last but it gives me that emotional distance to have emotional distance with her, meet her at her level of needs. the fact that she is more open to physical contact with me, massage, direct kisses is good. but again she could still just be cultivating a friend. a very close one, but a friend. so thursday is tricky, i told her she would owe me. the owe might be a real massage i give her. then we sleep in the same bed. is that scewy? the thing is and in all humility, it is my best seduction attribute. it gets my desires out, but creates in them in others. i would be nicely tired after and her body would be umm aware. if she makes a move, unlikely, or even kisses heavlily possibly. i now say "i dont want you yet". lets sleep. so heres my question: is thursday a green flag or a red one? i could keep pulling away, and play the "keep asking me" for a time. i have now taken four requests by her to do things, considered it, then said no, but keep asking me. then i show up for the next thing. she will go into a week without her son next. after that she will have him for a month solid. building more physical contact in this week would be good. that way when we are alone its easier. thats the question then. introduce more physical on my terms, or get her to show more physical interest. a massage is very intimate but dressed in the guise of spoiling and non intimate. absolute stealth. hey who wouldnt want one. and this has worked many, many times before. but is it the time? if i was to guess whats going on i would say one of two things. 1. she is trying to build a home for us. im not kidding, this is what she wanted all along. 2. she is providing male support for her son and keeping me in there in that role, while hanging onto the pieces she really values. i know she is not dating. she hasnt even made any contacts for it. trust me i know. she could just be waiting for things to be settled with me. a couple dates. security zone. etc. but you would think she would have done one date by now. at least. both scenarios could be very real. the line is of course feelings, pushing the comfort button to passion turns the platonic into the romantic.
  2. rich_1517
    ignore, ignore, ignore. she is waiting for you to respond, then she will be cold and distant and etc. she is having trouble or not with her choices. let her live with them. she wants to feel like she is being nice right now. im not kidding, so if you accept her offers to "meet" under these conditions you are letting her off the hook. dont do it. becuase her feelings about you are also on that hook. think about how you felt after the last phone calls. thats what you will get. NO CONTACT. steve read it. now. now. now. this is a situation where it absolutely applies. she is going away with another guy. you need to step back for a while, you are not ready to play this game yet. part of the process here is knowing when you cannot do anything effective, and talking to her while she is at a train station waiting to leave on vacation with someone else cannot be effective. i wish i could say something to make you feel better. but i cant, this is seriously messed up on her part. really.
  3. rich_1517
    Hey guys GeeCee i dont know what you feeling. waiting is a b*&$h. but you sound good. you sound like you are adjusting to things as they are and not as you want them to be more. that part i know very well. so whats the plan? or is that a secret?
  4. rich_1517
    Steve stop beating yourself up. you are second guessing (we always do). you will be ok, no matter what happens. from what i can see so far you seem like a good guy. i also feel that you dont deserve what is happening. you have the power to stop it, thats hard i know. it took me a long time to get used to no contact. no one thing will make or break or where you are. just let go of what you think may be a mistake. i kept screwing up the next thing becuase i was upset about the last. you need to get grounded. she has all the power right now. you have to remove it by a little distance. you should not play a damaging game. these things are won on postives. its ok to tell her you dont want to speak for a little while as this is too confusing to you. its ok at this moment to show some weakness, if she is smart its the signal that says "oh crap, if he sees hes hurting, the next thing will be letting go" so its the same thing different approach. but she cant get angry at the second approach. at least not legimately. if you say you need space and she doesnt respect it you can absolutlely slam her on it. i did about two months ago. then i waited after the week i asked for until she called again. painful, uncomfortable, etc etc. but see no contact rules again..... i know I keep harping on that, but have you? most of the answers are in there. its the building base for which to go either way. the thing is, she is with another guy, what is she doing? doesnt matter, she is with another guy. she may think somewhere in here she is being fair. and cant see she is causing damage. really. ever dump someone. remember thats the person you are dealing with. i used to literaly forget for a while and enjoy the freedom, then about two to three months in, BAM. loss longing, etc. no you arent annoying you are hurting. thats ok.
  5. rich_1517
    Steve i will reply to your post in the morning im exuasted. but first i want to report today objectively, not analyze it. you were right neallo, this vastly overrated melon on my shoulders can work against me, so today i worked straight from feelings AND boudnaries. we got together for lunch, her son was stoked to see me went to movies, she noticed i hadnt been smoking, said she was proud, and yep i needed a smoke, the difference was i turned to her and said "i need you to not judge me in this moment" after movie she wanted to know if we could go to the arcade. i said sure. knowing i could handle it comfortably. after that she invited me to dinner at her house. after dinner we hung out, she started asking me to stay. i just considered but said nothing. the kid asked me to stay. later when she asked again she said you can sleep on the couch, i said nah thats too buddies for me. she offered me to sleep with her if we both wore pajamas we then read her son a bedtime story. before he came out i told her to come here, i was stretched on the couch. and sat her down on the floor in front of me and wrapped my arm around her from behind. she rested her head on my chest. so time to read the kid the story but she has him come out and sit with us there, and i rubbed her shoulders while they read. so she asked again after tucking him in. i said not tonight but keep asking me so she asked about helping move her table there, would i spend the night that night? i said we'll see, if you were at my house would you stay or go home? as i left i got the hug, but not the peck. this one was on the lips. why do i think its changing i dont really know. but i know what i have been doing. meeting her needs as best i can, putting many of my "demands" off the table, but keeping my "needs" in the forefront. but i also think its critical that we as dumpees date. its entirely possible that she is sensing something missing, and she would be right. i dont have all my emotions directed at her. i spent last night with someone else. no sex but close and warm, no she didnt sleep over. so i went into today without a lot of need or longing at all. i will not judge this, i need to not fall into any conclusion and just take it each date, each get together at a time. quit smoking and see. what do you see?
  6. rich_1517
    Do not get together with her Steve. if you want this to work out you have to be clearer, her seeing your feelings exposed is not the way. you wont be able to avoid it. be tough, come up with a very good excuse for not meeting her, keep it light. you need her to wondering now, and she is. so let her. you have to. she has a security blanket of this guy, its time for her to feel the loss of you. you dont actually say it. you show, a little at a time. first thing though is restore self respect so that from that position you can deman respect just by your confidence. ok on my side, yes her kid loves me, she loves me, but she is not in love. that is her problem, so she sees a friend. the missing passion. so i am getting bolder. she asked if i could do something with her computer, i said sure for a backrub. i will meet them for lunch and a movie. i may hold her hand during i dont know. the kid usually ends up in the middle. there is some chemistry building but i dont know how to use it. i am borrowing from my dates to give me confidence and it works. i am stronger and more able to deal. i am going to have to try and get her to SEE her feelings, i dont know if thats possible. ladies? is it? does she know already? is she blocking it off on purpose? so i am now preparing to quit again on tuesday (smoking) but i realise now i want to do it for me. and thats what i was waiting for. if she sees that and everything else that has changed and is unmoved at all i would be peeved. but a peeved non smoker
  7. rich_1517
    you are now in uncharted territory! cool, you did something i have been unwilling to do. you told him you went on a date. ok you downplayed it but still his response should tell you much. but dont be trhown if the thinks its great you are dating. acceptance of loss goes through cycles i think so he may be cheery about it now, it may take a awhile to it to sink in. so dont get down in the conversation if he is happy about it. move right onto the problem. i think handing him something was a good move. how he responds will also tell you much there as well. i hope you have something you can give him as you problem? does he have kids, can you say you are having trouble that way? an ex problem? problem at work? what is he good at? etc etc. my ex keeps asking me for those things, knowing i can help but in my case my reaction is the reverse. perhaps i should do this myself to her. make her feel needed. keep us posted.
  8. rich_1517
    Steve you are now in a game on a bad footing. change it, dont call her, dont double think. you have to get away from this for a while. thanks for taking time to respond to my stuff while you are hurting, i found giving advice and taking works. cut her off, just do it. nothing until you can get clear. just be strong knowing that anything you do right now cannot help you. see no contact rules and read them again. and again. you cannot get clarity where you are now. just be very good to yourself right now. distraction. cry, friends. get busy.
  9. rich_1517
    Well i did a change up. i said well its raining (true) so game is called. but how about lunch and a movie. so its showing a willingness to do something but on my terms. i didnt like the "breakfast is your only reward" comment. whether real or just joking, i didnt like it so she can think what she likes about the change. fact is i dont want to spend tooo much time in a familiar setting with her son, too "buddies" so lunch, movie, gone. then whatever next step is.
  10. rich_1517
    hmmm i called her to say good morning and that i remembered i had offered to help with moving a table. she invited me over for breakfast with her and her son. but she said breakfast is your your only reward. whats with that? i said ok, what am i doing? i have to drive forty minutes to get there, i felt saying yes after saying no yesterday was about right. then she seemed to qualify it. wanting to be sure i understood this is platonic? this is that tricky area again. if you have time i shower and leave in fifteen minutes. how would you behave in a situation like this? i dont want to end up friends. so i have to flirt some, but physical contact? how? and what? and what is she doing? is this just keep me in the loop again? and am i screwing up? these platonic get togethers seem dangerous. should i call back and say, i will come for a kiss?
  11. rich_1517
    Well back to me. i am starting to think this thing has some strange elements. she has not wanted to kiss, but at week one from break up we had an incredible kiss, she even said wow that was like our first kiss. she can very immature. i have no idea whats in her head. but... i think she may be trying to get her ex husband back. on many levels that seems silly, she cant stand how he behaves, hes moody, no fun, judgemental, etc ,etc. but her timming on stuff its weird. this is the most dysfunctional relationship right now. sorry what relationship? time will now begin to tell. i will see her tomorrow and watch her reactions to me, i wont make any plans just be fun and etc. he leaves for chile in two weeks for a month to be with "the love of his life" so i am told. this will leave her with a month of her son while he is gone. i think she may be watching that situation to see what happens. either way i am seeing im not in this girls plans, i mean sure factory tour, dinner here and there, now three dates over five weeks, but nothing that you could call "meaningful". i could literally walk away right now and i dont know if she would do anything at all. heres a question. can i ask her about is there anyone in the wings? can i ask if she wants her ex back? just do it casual. like somethings dont make sense, you seem to be very very under control, is there someone you waiting for? is it your ex? you just seem so, removed.
  12. rich_1517
    Hmmm. you will be ok my friend. this is the worst kind of pain. and yes we can pick them. but remember we give them that power, we can take it away. its ok but stop beating yourself up. HOW, listen to your thoughts, and try to halt any judgement about yourself right now. do you have a friend you can trust or feel close to? female? go see her tell her how you are feeling. dont sleep with her but be around someone who does care right now. this will pass. just keep telling yourself that. you have been through this before, you will get through this. her not having anything to say. all normal she wanted to know you are still in the game. so no contact for a couple days my friend. not until you can either show up as the guy you were, or the guy who wants to move on. which actually are both.
  13. rich_1517
    Steve oops you added new info. This is good! relax, relax relax. if you want to "undo" a crappy message. here is what i would do. talking might not be a good idea and if you are hammered extremely bad idea. if she has spent a night out with someone else, and then is calling you that night, then in morning these are positive signs. people dont think about others when they are with someone they are happy with. so send a short text saying "sorry if i was crappy, had a moment" and leave it at that. i wouldnt give her too much right now. she is getting scared perhaps at your starting to distance. so heal up and if you want her lets build a plan. go have a damn good sob, imagine all the worst things, get it out of your system and then start looking around at other women. get to cafe and if you cant actively flirt, then just look. start planting some new images in your head.
  14. rich_1517
    Excocet well said and good points. its true in my case to much change, too much acceptance of thier ways and wants is really really bad. i hope i have been making some things clearer to her in that the changes i have made were do anyway. she has said she wished she had broken up with me sooner. but i am still up against her feeling not "in love", she doesnt have time for another guy, but sometimes i wonder. right about now she is either beginning to wonder or beginning to let go i think. but ok no more analysis. a very loose playbook at this point. begin to act natural. im glad you are with your ex. i hope that is my story as well. the girl i used to see three years ago, still wants me. i once again had to say its late and escort her out. sounds great right. no i dont want to lead her on. the ex is so far away right now emotionally, desire or even a hint of committment that it really is nice to have someone who wants me as i am. but i have to keep my integrity, i dont do jerk well. I like your quote.
  15. rich_1517
    GeeCee you know what i think. from the sounds of it and without more information my take on you and your ex is there is a lot of i dont need anyone and not enough allowance for support. i could be wrong. i still think handing him a problem to solve for you emotionally or people wise, might work to get him feeling more comfortable. feeling needed feels good. he also expects you to be concerned for him. either way i might do the unexpected. but i can also agree that normal friendly contact is healthy too. i dont think two weeks is too long, you want to keep them in the game some. my only concern is the impact on you. plan something for right after and the next day or night. plan for feeling bad after. just remember he cant be the problem you take to him i could be completely off base here. you know your situation best. but either way my thougths are with you.
  16. rich_1517
    Oh man Steve well if you are reading this now its sunday morning there. and you are probably feeling pretty bad right about now..... the hole in your heart is a perception of need. you let her in where it was solid already, there is no hole. those things you felt about yourself, how you saw yourself when you were with her are still there. own them. i cant tell you what you saw is supposed to be good. but maybe it will help you to get closure on doubts. and maybe strength for dealing with her bs. i was going to tell you its time to let go anyway. even if you stay in the game, Daisy said it. becuase we have to accept the worst becuase the worst has happened, they left. so greiving is not only ok, its necessary. i found as long as i was angry and hurt i couldnt show up for good times. i was focused on the devastion i felt. i dont know what to tell you right now. you knew this had to be going on, as she was with doing it with you as well. you could still win her back, but do you want to? its harder when theres another person in the picture. Daisy yes i can wait, i wasnt going to do it at coffee, you are soooo right. this is the time to go the other way, she saw some withdraw and words, a no thanks. now its time to show up and see if she likes seeing me more. so yes fun is in order. actually based on her reaction a fun date might be in order too. the conversation comes when it feels right. because maybe in her eyes shes making an effort with this whole thing, so pushing too hard is not in order yet. thanks. steve stay with us. its ok to keep posting here, the future is unwriten and besides you are part of this sick littel family of ours now.
  17. rich_1517
    well im on to next steps for me. time is going to start playing a factor. so i have to begin a little more push pull. she made an effort and i said no. but she may not know that doing something with her son is not a date to me. so i will call on monday for coffee. midday, short amount of time. at some point (heres where i need advice) I am going to say this: "when i fell out of love with you, but still loved you this is what i did to find my feelings. becuase you said you want to try and you want to find passion this is my suggestion. i looked back to the moment and moments that i started to feel less passion, it was tied to what you had done or not done. what needs werent being met. thats where i shut down. so i looked at those things and asked myself, was it worth losing you? do those things matter today as much as they did then? so i have to ask you, did my not moving in, or making you feel bad, do you bevlieve those are true today? and can you let go of the disappointment that went with them? becuase what i learned about me was as long as i didnt face my dissapoinment my feelings for you were locked up, i coudlnt see the future." feel free to say anything. email this to allow her time? say it? send it snail mail? dont say it?
  18. rich_1517
    Steve love is created by meeting emotional needs, its not completely spark. you can actually create chemistry as well. this break up got me doing some serious reading. what i have learned is combine attention, support, listening, no demands, etc to create emotional dependance. then withdraw it a little. then come back. the goal is to start their subconcous working. the concsious mind makes visible decisions, the unconscous pushes the feelings. so you support their needs, and create some doubt and you end up with attraction. i will let you know if its working. one thing that must exist is respect for you. to not be taken for granted. thats where i am now, creating the fear i may be lost to her. so either she will start to say "great" whew i can stop worrying about hurting him, or oh no im losing him. and suddenly she may find she is ready to smooch.
  19. rich_1517
    Mixamaster: for 19 years old you one smart cookie. you even use non YOU language making easier to absorb. meaning you dont say you should do this or should do that. you reasons are sound as well. especially around letting go. we are terrified that if let go, even alittle, it will never come back. that we have betrayed our concept of love and that if that one small spark that we feel we are the only ones who hold goes out. it is gone forever. very valid fear. also untrue. i think in my case it she that doesnt want to feel it again, she blocks off emotions are uncomfortable so its easier to not face them and poof, im a friend. she is not in love but loves me. i am in love and love her. now if i can get her to look at the causes, it may work. she sounds ready, we'll see. I think we should try to do one point at a time and not do massive posts. im way guilty of it too. Steve the emotional distance is for clarity, if you are away from her for say two weeks and dont talk or see her and find you dont want her, then you didnt anyway. thats why break ups work or dont work. percieved loss of something taken for granted can create very very strong feelings, or if someone is truly done, relief. if you find after some letting go, cry, greive, whatever you still want her then you know.
  20. rich_1517
    Daisy post it here! im trying to bring as much "getting back together" stuff in one location as possible. sometimes our threads are hard to find and gerat advice and experience never gets seen. even if its just an overview it could others.
  21. rich_1517
    this is rich grabbing both Daisys cheeks and planting a huge kiss. in a brotherly way of course. we'll see, im off to go hiking with a nice woman. its a beautiful day out. i think i will enjoy it. oopps i think i better change where i go hiking. i just realised she may show up with her son as a "surprise" that would be bad. have to play this out.
  22. rich_1517
    Steve its hard to make that first step, start thinking out of the "any move i make will end it forever" mode. i know it well. strength comes from a couple places, and reasons to find it. 1. is what you have worth it? i mean what you have right now? is it acceptable? can it go on this way 2. think long term built on self respect 3. start thinking how would the guy you were before this all happened handle this? 4. get busy, work out, etc etc. stay distracted, strength comes from emotional distance from the addiction of HER. well i called and said i would love to go, but i really want to hike, i need it right now. it sounds fun. ask me again. she was very flat, and disappointed. this was a big step for me. she started to ask something then stopped. this is the first. tipping the scales is not easy, but man it feels right. i kept the conversation moving around, not letting it sit. then said have a great time. create doubt.
  23. rich_1517
    to Steve: i have been thinking about your situation. you have two choices, one cut her off or play the game. cutting her off will either make her come around for the first part of getting her back or it wont. meaning she may not have had to feel your loss yet and actually seeing it for real may scare her. what you do then you should talk to Beec or Danmial about. playing the game would be saying "hey we can still talk, i understand this has been hard on you" then cut contact start dating. when she asks how you are doing tell her you are dating. you do not tell her how you feel, you do not let her see you suffer, you dont ask for a damn thing. both say strong things, i am indpendant, i can live without you, i will make my own choices. i have been doing number two for a while, when i am on the forum i pur out my guts and look for answers, with her i am calm, no demands, appreciative, etc. i dont let her see feelings. she may know intuitively but she has no words from me, so i create doubt about me waiting for her. that would be my advice, you cannot go on the way you are if she thinks she can run to you whenever, and thats your first move. when she calls, whcihc she willand picks a time to meet or talk or even that phone call, say thanks for calling, "oh monday? cant. listen i have to get going, can i call you tomorrow?" then you come back here and look for what to do. as in my case the first steps are the hardest. i will not go to the factory tour, it would be fun, the three of us have a blast. but if she is unwilling to come to middle a little more, then i have to start sending little messages of im not for free. it is too early to tell her im dating. it sounds selfish but she has chosen this ground by: not kssing, saying friends too many times, no effort by her to rebuild, letting me do all the work. but still expecting to do things. its true her comfort zone needs to be rebuilt, so does mine, but also her nervous zone about losing me to someone else. so its doubt. doubts about if she has me. this is using that taken for granted against her, if she will be apathetic about the relationship (or lack of), then i will start building a different future, while i am still around. over the next two weeks or so we will find out how she feels. i will be busy then show up, then if she blinks again (calls to do something) i will try and create some excitement, etc etc. its a game Steve if you are still listening. if you want this girl yo have to become the better competitor. go buy love tactics, its a good book for either rebuilding your self for you or her. this guy may be a jerk, be the better guy.
  24. rich_1517
    Help! she calls now to invite me to go on factory tour with her and her son. i have made plans for that time. WTF? am i supposed to do? i am feeling like if i keep doing friends things im dead, but if i avoid these invites im dead too. help. god i sound weak like i cant make up my own mind and you would be right. i just cant make a decision around this girl with no clarity about the future. grrrrrrr.
  25. rich_1517
    Dude you are with great compassion very smart. yeah you got me. when i am in terror or loss i think, think, think. so now i am starting to act act act. i have dates all weekend and am actively seeking others. i am having a run right now and im going for all its worth. perhaps it will allow me some clarity. on one level it feels dishonest. hmm. ok i ned a specific advice. she wants me to help her move stuff this weekend. this will mean going to her moms house. and running into her mom, thats a first. i said cant for saturday (im hiking *date*). am i just reinforcing the "friends" thing by helping out, or am i showing a willingness to help which builds warm feelings? I hear you thought Neallo. it just makes me very very sad/mad and frustrated to have less then half of what i had. i have heard friends a wee bit much and she is overly cautious about kisses. it may be analyzing but she needs to start showing up and soon. make some date ideas, show something that makes me believe that she isnt just being selfish and confused at my expense. she has covered all her bases by saying friends, and ill try, and and. it lets her do what she wants with all the bases covered. but maybe analysis isnt the answer, maybe just being more and more the guy i was, which unfortunately means talking and asking for what i want. today i made her go get me coffee before meeting me.
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