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rich_1517

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  1. rich_1517
    guesswho you are scaring me. are you her? eep. thanks, i needed that too. and have been thinking the same things, that i am trying to button her up while she is still nervous, and that space and growth are what she needs. thanks guesswhoever you are i needed that sooooo bad.
  2. rich_1517
    well time will now tell. have a nice weekend, happy dating. Sli - did you get a chuckle out of that? Scout - i reread your posts, uhmmm, we are different, right? i mean if your ex wanted to date you, wasnt seeing anyone else, said he loves you, wants to find his feelings you would tell him to kiss off, right? the amount of hatred and dissillusionment bothers me. it makes me sad to see peoples choices in relationship chew them up so bad they call time together "wasted" or casting all the blame on the ex, it is good to be mad and angry at them for a while, but in the end we all chose to be with those who dumped us. sometimes people amaze me.
  3. rich_1517
    scout i hear you, but having been on the dating market for quite some time. four three plus year relationships and some shorter ones in between i have learned if you find something worth it, hang on to it if you can, becuase while there is no ONE person we do find someone who can meet many of our needs and are worth the effort. i will never regret not having tried. with her in the picture or out i would still have needed many months to be ready. thats just who i am, wouldnt have mattered. fact is if we dont get back together we have both used this time to learn to stand alone without each other, kind of a bittersweet escort to ending. i hope not but it would be true.
  4. rich_1517
    hmmm, rebuilding two not three (oops) relationships over twnety five years of dating isnt that much. many poeple have been through two divorces by now. in those cases yes i had something to learn. it was actually two and the reasons were because i believe in taking a break from each other when things are not progressing. i may be alone in that belief but i dont think so. sometimes you have to get the other persons attention when the relationship has stalled or stagnated. i believe we are together out of choice, not promise or owing. we can choose to be out of if too. the time apart lets people ask themselves if this is important enough to consider change. but i also believe there is that point when you comitt finally and to marriage. i just havent been there yet. want to though. if you look at the stats, many divorces end up back together. i never want that to be me, i do think a break is about finding your ultimate partner. but lets face it, break ups stink. in both cases the relationship was stronger for it, but in the end we chose different paths. i am friends with every woman i have ever been with and i believe its because of exactly those reasons. no body owes anybody. people forget that.
  5. rich_1517
    RayKay you were just what i needed right now. I applaud you for being true to your heart. it takes strength and courage to hold onto it long after others would have surrenered. but its also the consistency of love and support that a loved one takes into account over time, knowing we love them enough to let them find their own way back to us, even when they cant see it, or that it may never happen. but "to thine own heart be true" its a strange path and one i hope this is the last time i shall walk. but if she and i get through this we will be a hell of a lot stronger for it. i have drawn a line, but i gave her one way that i think it "should" go. talking, stepping out of that comfort zone (she understood completely) and that reconcilliation is a process not always a fine line. but thanks RayKay, i needed that. it is funny though. we dont mean to but we give others serious third person anger about our exes becuase they only hear our side. we get the goodies when we see them and some healing happens, but others are stuck not being able to tell that person what a jerk they are. i dont talk to family or friends about this for just that reason. i want them to still like her should be we be together again. they thinks shes screwy but in the end they want me happy as i do.
  6. rich_1517
    yes i still want advice. so to answer majors question. i am scared to start something new, mixing memories and new experiences is hard and painful. i have to consider it very carefully. ok i will tell you what happened last night, then fire away. i said to her: your comments have sank in and i cant escape them. much as i want to see you i cannot do this on your terms anymore. that if these are mercy dates or im your security blanket then perhaps we need to take the summer off and meet as friends in the fall. i probabaly wont be available but thats where we are. she then said she is confused and isnt using me, she said she doesnt understand herself at all right now. knowing her as i do this makes sense. she is afraid to be close for too long, her families history of divorce is big, she also had to adjust to living abroad for four years as a kid. so i told her, i think you dont know what the next step in intimacy looks like, just like i didnt know the next step towards marriage. she said she knows she loves me, and will decide finally. we then had an amazing evening, we kissed, we wreslted, we played a game only she and i understand enough to want to play, we joked, we danced, we bruised each other horribly and laughed through it all, we played hangman until one am. we held each other and told each other we still love each other a lot. she is coming over today to play the game again, i will talk to her about "talking" and "listening" one more time. that if she is considering the committment, talk about it to hear her own voice, and that not talking about it was one of the reasons we failed before. and that in that talking we and or she may find how she really feels and what she wants. so sorry if this is frustrating, but i think sometimes this board bets on how long a thing be over in, or will she/he come back? and if it doesnt happen right away then its over. in the three relationships i have rebuilt in my life it took between four and six months. i have also found loves reenter our lives later and its a question of being on the same page or not. letting go for now is what i believe works. i ranted and raved here, but i still have moved my life forward. not romance but pretty much everything else. I havent stopped living.
  7. rich_1517
    scout you may be hurting or upset at others, but why would you want to spread more unhappiness where its not needed? i may be a fool but i am trying to not cause harm either. i appreciate your advice in the past and things to consider like her son and the impact on others i may have. but if you are sounding out about your own stuff then why do it here? this is your own stuff if you read back. i can tell you were hurt a lot by a guy from reading your posts on this thread. i think its sad, but I also believe we cant allot misfortune to make us butter either. i deleted much of what went on last night becuase, well it was too cool to want to get smashed down again. she will be over today to talk more. she dropped her guard and admitted she is questioning her decision. that she loves me and is very confused. fact is this isnt about dating, its about marriage, bigger stakes require more patience. in an age of i want what i want when i want it i think we forget that love/loss/regain doesnt happen overnight. five months is nothing when i consider that i may spend the rest of my life with this woman. we are back in orbit with each other again, and she knows i am dating but doesnt want to date anyone else. this may be a frustrating story but dont anyone ever feel that their advice was wasted. nothing happens in our time. we forget that. but the things you guys did to get me through the hard times will always endear me to you.
  8. rich_1517
    i went to her house tonight. i told her its no longer enough as it is. that she is playing it too safe. so now we wait. she said she will decide by next week. i said what will be different this time? and then she lowered her guard. she admitted she is confused, but not just about us, about herself. she wanted my observation. so i told her. see you in a week.
  9. rich_1517
    arggghhhh. so here we go. L just put the burners on high, i should have seen it. its nice to be wanted and she seems like a good catch, im just not done and not ready, i even told her this. its kind of like you want them to not be in such a rush becuase you may want them later, just not right this moment. she is already planning trips.... so i have to gently slow her down. the ex? we are together tonight, i dont know if i can live with saying goodbye yet. i really dont want to. this is the one i want. i dont know what i am doing here at all.
  10. rich_1517
    no scout your input is not wasted. it means alot to me but i understand. i chose her as the one i want and now i am living with that. the only problem is she is still in the game somehow. I am just afraid to be the one to end it. by continuing to show up as i am i see her differently, it doesnt hurt at much but it hurts to see nothing. but do not feel that you are wasting your time. all of this has lead me to a place i have needed to go. i dont know the next step. i really dont.
  11. rich_1517
    god i can pick em. she is so flat, she hasnt expressed a real emotion in a very long time. today i told her i had a job offer in another state, she has nothing to say about how it made her feel, only about what it meant for me. this makes me sad. i can get a decent position in NY i just hate the commute and not sure i want to deal with the weather. (im in the best weather in the world). i will let her sit with that for a day or two. i have a date tonight with someone else who really does like me, she is just older then i am looking for and im not ready yet. this sounds whiny but i want her to "wake up" and just say "ok" i want you back. she wants to get together tomorrow. i dont know if thats what i want to do. fact is she is still taking me for granted. why is this so hard. i want what i want and i sit in it. thats all this is for any of this, we want our way and we choose to stay in it.
  12. rich_1517
    both sefl empoyed and full time have pros and cons. at one time i had my own company with twelve people and we produced a best selling cd rom game and an animated television show. i got reemed over employee/contract issues and a bad faith contract so i surreneded. since then i have been self employed freelance and for companies. i have to rememeber i am a good leader, i inspire the people who work for me but i have been gun shy to do it again. it may be time but not yet. full time telecommute with some office time would be ideal. so i am shooting for that. i need the stability of a regular paycheck. but someday i will start again, its in the blood over half my immediate and extended family own their own companies. heres someting thats a pain right now. the more grounded i get the harder this "game" with her becomes. she called twice today to chat. with very little intimacy involved and unclarity its like i need time between seeing her. fact is it gets less acceptable the more time that passes. im still commited to it, but the casual stuff is annoying without clarity. im not sure of my next move. im going to focuse on work and as you say let her simmer.
  13. rich_1517
    Now you're talking scout. the carreer is the biggest piece, or my business again. tremendous source of self esteem, identity, value, etc. not so much as everything i am as a man but it nags my brain that the stability isnt there and its definitely a significant factor for a single mom (any single mom). so yes thats job one (after this post). she isnt nagging at all now, she didnt do it terribly back then either, but health and finances are her concerns about me. shes 31 im 43. in a way i want her to nag some, thats how i know she cares believe it or not. overall she can be very supportive. but yeah i cant devote a lot of energy to her, my personal goals and plans will have an effect on her or not, probably yes but i cant plan for it. i have ahd to floar between being a freelance art director and a carpenter for a while now. im good a both but i want something that carries benefits and real money consistently.
  14. rich_1517
    well here we are. camping was nice we kissed and touched more then normal. i started to make a move (too soon) was awkward, but kept myself from getting angry and frustrated. i know you all think im a fool, and that this has gone on way too long. but... i am seeing her differently, i am more removed when we are together, meaning im not terrified or insecure, im just me. i am acutely aware of my financial position and its role in all this. i used to make a lot, now i struggle like so many in the US to just get by. that is now changing. after the awkwardness i asked her, are you wating for something? is there someone else? she said she wants to do whats comfortable. translation: quit smoking and keep a good job. makes me feel like a loser but health and secutiry are big. bear in mind im in the best shape of my life (185 and ripped) and she is about 20 pounds over. all of that doesnt matter. what does matter is a comfort level is forming, will it translate into a committment? i dont know. i told her to call me if she wants to get together this week. she asked me stay late tonight but i decided two and half days was plenty for now. hmm, what to say as to whats next? this all rides on an ambigous "sense" she will have or not. fact is i am free, i am not tied to her or anyone now, i am very focused on my life, at the same time i know she is stuck, she doesnt date, she feels like she looks terrible, and i sense she is sad overall, she draws all meaning for her life right now from her son. if something were to happen I have to ready to accept that he will always be her focus. i did tell her not to be reckless or inconsiderate with my heart, to tell me her truth no matter how bad. im finding that the more i let her tell me what blocks her from me, the more she lowers her defenses. case in point, we didnt have sex, but the next morning she wrestled me awake. sorry guys but i may leave the door open on this one. the difference is the suffering, there really isnt any these days. heres the key for me now. and it will only work if she wants to go there. its about her feelings in general. for whatever reason she plays it safe, far safer then i ever knew. she doesnt trust easily to show her feelings, making the connection between intimacy and that is what has to happen, its also my only real condition: to talk about that and try to work through it. the other girl i have been dating L, i told her whats going on. she says she wants to retreat to a safe distance but still date me. i said thats fine, i like you but i cant guarantee. C keeps waffling for her own reasons but thats ok too. so i feel my integrity is in line with my actions. I have decided i will see the son over time, maybe by myself, maybe with her. i may phase me out of his life if she and i do the same. my best to you all. and as always you advice welcome.
  15. rich_1517
    thanks scout i appreciate the advice. for all my confidence and growth, i am still scared of the possible reality that she just isnt there. many similiarities i think with out exes as you pointed out. but this is also about me showing up in the face of that reality too. instead of being in my head. and who knows. but i am sorry your guy is such a jerk, you sound thoughtful and considerate. seems like us types attract the emotionally cavated kinds. but i do believe each one of these "experiences" makes me a better man. wish me luck, this will be interesting.
  16. rich_1517
    um yeah, NOW. seriously? i have asked flat out and prepared to hear no or yes. i may preempt it by saying i dont want to force you into a relationship or to do anything you dont want. Hell i may end up saying it before we go camping, which of course would make it a very short camping trip. but my thought is this. camping goes well, then next week i would take her out to dinner and ask again. will you commit?
  17. rich_1517
  18. rich_1517
    im not sure how to respond to that. sorry if my stop drawing conclusions comment was nasty. it was in response to what i saw as judgements about the following: - you are guilting her into a relationship - you arent taking her son into account - she should be let go those seemed liked judgements to me based on limited information, and i reacted. i am sorry if that tweaked anything for you. yes scout i did post a LOT, thats how i keep interactions with her sane, to run my insanity out here and keep it out of life. Mar was of that mind from the beginning. i love mar she is a very kind soul with toungue of steel. but she also stays in a situation you might call intolerable, but to her it is acceptable. i am doing what i believe is most true to myself. to ride this as far as i can. the assumption of what I get from her or anyone is kind of important here. have you ever been with someone who you just feel good with and talking to? i dont want her out of my life either. i just dont know what i role i can stand that is less then a committment. these days its easier to walk away then it is to try, how many relationships that might have worked becauase both people gave up. so i am the only one trying, i know that. i accept that. on the other hand she hasnt moved forward either. i cant tell you the whole why, my situation is only four and a half months old, many people do this for years, somethings take time. what has changed is that i am stronger and more confident but havent moved real far away. consequently i watch her change in front of my eyes, its sad but its real. there is no "no contact" under which to guess what the other person is feeling. i see it. and that changes me, and what remains of the relationship. but scout, geecee, again ask yourself if you could have three days alone, no distractions (and you liked each other) would you take it? would you give them that chance? would you give your heart that chance?
  19. rich_1517
    ok still thinking about your posts. lot to think about. she and i keep talking, she is different these days. she seems settled into who she is. i cant tell if thats good or bad, but the conversation is good. she and her son have a great dymanic, his dad is there every other week for him. i am not a surrogate or replacement, he just loves me, as i do him. I told her i miss being there. we made a lot of jokes about being broken up, good, bad. i dont know. trying to accept or make light of to remove pressure, who cares. fact is normal is better. shes calling back and im going to be "sexually" funny and see how she responds. i miss her a lot, i miss us. but i will try to stay focused and listen to what she says this weekend and not ignore the cues about me and our relationship. after tonight i will cut second guessing becuase i roll into the weekend and i want this to work, and my confidence must be intact. just know that i care about whats best here, i will not blackmail her emotionally into taking me back, i will not allow her son and i to connect until we have an answer. but your words have been heard.
  20. rich_1517
    stop drawing conclusions please. maybe she doesnt want me anymore and hasnt said it directly. i cant explain her to you, so i guess i wont try. think of a man who wont committ and why. then apply that to her. thats basically what you are dealing with. you have to understand the boy. he has called me dad before but catches himself as he did this time. he is very strong and he will heal up ok. this will be hard no matter how you cut it, i have been there for over half his life. i actually was the one who said lets wait before including him. but on one side its ok to ween him off me over time. that leaves me as the one who is getting hurt more. am ok with it? Absolutely not. is she ok with it? who knows what she is thinking, i know she wants her son to able to to see me. he says i miss him, she calls me. dont read too far, she faces a hard time being a single mom again, but thats not my concern. i have told her i will not involve her son without a committment, that monday was a one time deal based on the fact she is seriously considering comitting again. was she listening when he called me dad or asked me to come home with them, by listening i mean does she understand the emotions that are taking place, and does she care? i really dont know. is it for real? is it driven by guilt? is she just lonely? am i just unwilling to let go? is she? i couldnt tell you. but she is game for trying this far, we will bit know by monday whats real and whats not. is she is feeling guilty she wont be real with me and i will see it. if its just lonely then it will just wear out. if we both miss each other enough then things could happen. ask your self, if you could spenf three days alone with your ex would you take it? if they said they are reconsidering getting together, would you listen for a while? sometimes when you are ready to quit a job its the best time to ask for a raise. thats where i am. i know i may be headed for a world of pain here, but it must be what i have to go through to see the truth. its just who i am.
  21. rich_1517
    whoa... man do i know how to cause reactions? wow. i will finish this later, but you have my attention. i dont want to hurt her son. i was the one that said to her only one time without a commitment. it breaks my heart to have that half life as well and to see him call me dad even though his dad is 50/50 involved. second you are assuming she wants to get on with her life without me, or she is driven by guilt. you dont know her, but i will ask her if that is what is happening. becuase i respect me and her enough not to let that win what would be a horrible outcome. i used to be that "guy" the one who could be guilted into it. she will only do what she wants to do (trust me on this), she may be afraid of the loss and thats what i think is driving more then anything. i will come back to this but understand i am trying to find my way through a murky land here. she says one thing and does another, and then changes her mind as well. as for women knowing what they want? uhmm (cough cough) people dont know what they want until they know, until that happens anything can happen. someone can ask for change in a lover, then not want a lover they can push around, a person can say i dont want you, until you find someone new, a person can change in spite of all the reason or logic that says not to. will finish later. the moral aspects here are too impotant not to.
  22. rich_1517
    i will have to do some serious soul searching over the next two days. fact is im nervous. i have to decide how hard i want to play this hand. there is a concept and practice in the behavioural wolrd of phsycology called the psychology of selves. the idea being we can never be of one mind about something becuase we made up of many selves. this is very true in the world of love as well. the key is to get the selves to not interrupt each other long enough to hear them out. sounds strange? tell me if this sounds familiar: "god i really miss ....../no i dont i hate ....../but i felt so complete with ..../and .... dumped you. etc etc. point is we cant reach an aware state of decision as long as that goes on. the idea is to let the primary self talk, all the way out, what it wants etc. until that side of you feels safe enough to let the disowned self speak. for instance, you may feel much more in "being nice" becuase being "nasty" scares you to show to your ex. so in fear of that the "nasty" or strong and protective side cant speak for long at all becuase we are afraid it will spill over. the idea is that using writting or talking you let the side you most comfortable with speak all the way out and feel more comfortable with the "other" side of the story speaking. the end goal is this: when resolving an issue where you are two or more "selves" about, using this process lets "you" know how you feel more completely about it and make a more effective decision. why do i bring it up? well i think its good for anyone in our positions, but more importantly for me to do before this weekend. if you are curious, check out this site ------ link removed
  23. rich_1517
    awwww. you guys make me sad and proud. you aer stand up friends willing to say what you feel is right. i am learning that i love longing, that explains why ihave been here before. to want something out of reach. so i definitely have something to take to therapy when i go. and like the punch drunk boxer who wants one more shot at the title, staggers into the ring bearing his injuries but full of confidence i go. for to do anything else at this time would mean i had truly given up on my heart again. other observations: dating is now awkward becuase she is trying, and a decision will come. L is coming on strong even though i have said, cant commit, not emotionally available, still rebounding, why does that turn women on? C is also very OK with limited contact. The ex would accept me dating others. but i have no heart to give right now, i cant trust her yet, and im not ready for someone new. so i have bouts of excitement and confusion. this will end one of these ways: it will not end, and she and i will play this out for a long time. i will tell her guilt is a bad idea and though love me, you arent in love with me so everyone would lose. i will tell her i am going to step back, lets talk in the fall. she will realise that im worth it, and perhaps find real feelings not based in guilt but the ones she had before the wheels came off. becuase i believe when we see someone who meets our needs, not always our wants, we miss them like nothing else. and i meet most of her needs. just the games have to stop. keep your feedback commming, even if you think it will depress me. im not that frail anymore. boo hoo. hoorahh.
  24. rich_1517
    thanks Hurt, yes on friends but no on friends. she and I already love each other as friends to a great degree. thats the problem. the fires of passion have cooled for her so friends is ummm dangersous to allow to just be buddies. i pulled her into me from behind and kissed her neck yesterday while saying "is this appropriate?" in my most devilish voice. she said yes. she is very ok with me touching her. we are looking for the other part, her wanting to touch me. kissing is now normal, not deep but normal again. I have changed a lot, i lost 30 pounds but got very ripped. i also grew my hair long so um, i look pretty good, aw hell i look fantastic, i surprise myself in the morning, im just not real arrogant by nature so its a surprise to me when i see me. she was staring at me at one point. i said "what?" she said you look so damn rugged. ill take it as a compliment. yes you are right. my plan is that if she doesnt repsond next week then i will say "I dont want to push, nothing good can come of that, perhaps we should meet again in the fall as friends or more if we are available." we'll see.
  25. rich_1517
    no she hasnt budged. but she isnt saying no now either. we are set to go camping next weekend. we will both see real clear what remains of our romance. at this point i think she is trying to talk herself into it and wrestle with her dilema about it. we spent the day together at the waterpark with her son. i gave a lot of physical attention to her and we kissed some, shes not comfortable doing it in front of her son. we went to the movies after, and he asked if i would spend the night. i looked at her and said maybe another time. the kid and i are very very close. i have told her we have to start thinking about the impact on him. i wonder if she hasnt realised that next weekend is kind of big, im realising she isnt trying to be a jerk. she isnt looking or dating at all. so spending two and half days alone in the woods with me is going to put her feelings to the test. she is showing signs of jealousy, and i have to be careful about that. she saw my roomates helmet on my motorcycle and said "how come?". she knows its for passengers. thankfully the truth was i gave him a ride. but this week is sticky, i am seeing C and L both this week and will not change anything without a comittment. bummer is i am still smoking, on our last meeting i didnt smoke at all. this time she knew i had and said "what happened?" meaning why. i havent been able to keep stopped. this is a big one. so i will try again tomorrow. fact is, time is now on my side. she is a single mom, she is out of shape, she is really busy with work and her "independence" is looking a little boring. i will go slow and consitent but not doormat. today was acceptable becuase she is considering still but i said without a committment i cant do things with her son anymore. its too unfair all around. she is definitely into camping. so i will plan it for leaving friday night so our first night can be just snuggling without any awkardness. i hope we will both be tired. it allows for the familiarity of our sleeping next to each other to come into play. that will (knock on wood) leave saturday night open for perhaps more intimacy, with comfort restored.
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