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rich_1517

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  1. rich_1517
    well guys, im finding that i am so much more dangerous with other women. i think thats what i should tell her. that you dont see me as dangerous. you take me for granted, and you know nothing will ever happen as long as thats true. you have lost interest, theres no challenge. its sad. i could show up but the grounds are just wrong. i have to do it and i have to stick by it. becuase she will agree to whatever i say and let me live with it. i think.... but these are the options i think i see 1. the "i have tried to show unconditionally, i am finding that just leaves me taken for granted. i have conditions, and if we cant meet on them its ok." 2. just dont call, and leave her wondering 3. walk away completely no calls 4. i want to keep the memories i have of you what we are doing lets me watch what has mattered to me disspear slowly. i dont want that. i want someone who wants me the way i want them. i have to let go. 5. hang in there, just be more confident and less available and show up here and there (had to put that option in) fact is unconditional love has to have value or you get no respect for it. so i have to add value by either removing me, or the unconditional part. or start exerting my indepence in way that will attract her. if we look at the dynamic now, i cant show up very well in her eyes. i have very little impact. sad but true, she misses me, she wants me happy, but i want her pasison not her sympathy. there is still time, but it needs to be now or soon. suggestions wanted
  2. rich_1517
    Ok so heres date 2. breif background. she left in january saying i need two months to decide. came back on march 15th to say i see you more as friend, but lets date you have changed so much. 3 years together. she waited way too long to leave or show her frustrations. i didnt move in on two invites afriad to committ, had reservations about her being intimate and emotionally open. ok so i got there 20 minutes late. (oops) she had a really nice dinner ready. we talked i was fine and decided to be just there, let things happen not control. practice listening. we headed to a concert then realised it would be lame, so went to coffee. then for a walk. we had fun, whistling, singing. we got back to her house and she wanted me to come in and play some board games, i said ok but really short have to get going. sounds like fun right? it was but she is too confident, i dont see real respect or romantic anything going here. it felt like two exes hanging out. not laying the groundwork for something new. i am frustrated and bummed again. fact is i feel the more i show up i look weak, if i walk i dont have enough clout to make her chase. she is soooo under control and reserved about me that its very hard. at the same time she is more fun and outgoing then before. i did this to myself in agreeing to the two months, offering to move in, and other changes that i placed on the table during the break up. while i kept space and didint call. the message was clear. i will do what i have to get you back. hence her "lets date" comment and "the cards are stacked against you becuase i see you as a friend". remember this whole thing could be just her hanging onto me becuase she wants that emotional buffer. but without respect, and with her confidence so high passion cannot bloom, without some sense of the loss of me she will not feel that internal pull. she seems so resolved to letting this dribble away. when i left i just said, sleep well and didnt even look for a hug, she came over and gave me a weak one. i smiled. but this thing is all wrong now and based on a faulty platform. i have a plan that works with when she doesnt have her son. a week from now. when he is there she is emotionally fulffiled, when he is not she calls. my plan is to be "available" during this next week and then hit her with distance, and doubts about this going into her week without. but her confidence must be shaken for anything to happen. i think. as a friend said, if i do it too soon i lose, if i do it too late i lose. about now feels right. she is not going to get much more softened up, i actually feel taht when she feels the time is right she will say "friends" and begin dating others. three months is too long not to make her miss me, too much time and she will slide right by those feelings, becuase i have been there. SUGGESTIONS?
  3. rich_1517
    i think i can start by answering my own post. its about getting her to talk about her feelings, the more comfortable she is with that the more open she will become. for someone who doesnt like to talk about her feelings thats no small task. i will have to start small and be patient, dont interrupt (she loves an excuse not to talk), dont fidget and dont judge what i am hearing. i read these things, ive always thought i was a good listener. im learning.
  4. rich_1517
    i am hoping that this post can start helping others since we are getting a few drive bys. the topic is getting him/her back when contact and casual dating is reestablished. in my case i have the friendship part down cold. respect is growing in the form of me being not emotionally exposed now and not calling or chasing. the passion is the key in my situation. so tactics. i think you guys are right, she wants more pasison in her life, i am in a position to give it to her to help complete but also to show her how to create it herself. in her case she blocks off so many emotions she doesnt realise she is blocking the source of personal passion. romantic passion can be created through tactics. so i am now planning next steps. we have a date tonight, then i will go see her sons play this weekend. some kind of contact mid week, then set her up for her week without her emotional support of her son to pull back. to some that may sound like a dishonest game, yes unfortunately it is. but if i was to say how i felt and what i wanted (notice the "I") i would end up feeling insecure, not getting what i wanted and pushing her away. i am learning to focus on "her" and what she needs and wants to regain her love while not begging, pleading. no feelings from me, zero. no demands, or requests. unconditional but showing like it costs nothing. the second approach is verbal. since i cannot say passion right out, the words creativity and expression are words i can use. so these are my two ideas: i start a discussion that she can participate in around passion from left feild. the key being planting the idea in her head. the second is to lay the idea of something romantically dark in her head as well. again no frontal attacks just the hint. could be a someone elses story i am relating. the point is plant the idea. she is a prudish, furstrated dreamer. meaning she wants excitement but cant ask directly. i have two to three opportunities to do this over the next six days. tonight is about me being low key. I am realising that stable is the biggest thing i can bring to the table, for her that is very attractive. but... laying the seeds of romance is absolutely necessary (else i become just friend). bear in mind no physical contact is happening yet, she has had a lot of confidence in my prescense (thats now slipping). and finally normalising. very important to get conversation and time together as relaxed and comfortable as possible. so my work of being comfortable and relaxed continues. Please comment on any part of this whether you think it will help me or others. my hope is that we can build a general game plan that works for almost anyone in casual dating phase. Inmy case the questions: what are good conversation topics to stir passion without saying it right out?
  5. rich_1517
    another note for myself and others. dont spend your emotional capital lightly. having a self appreciation day can lead to overly optimistic thinking. if we are trying to get someback, its about balance and confidence, of which self acknowlegdement is only part. just thinking out loud. so she tried calling a lot today. she is her pattern. wanted to tell me all about her night at a concert with her dad, i was suportive, attentive, etc, etc. i am being more laid back (good sign) i can also tell she wants me to be stronger becuase she is responding more to a contained me. so it begins. dinner and date on for tomorrow. i still have to decide about the kids play. i love this kid a lot and him in first play ever (hes six) would be fun to see. have to think about that one. ideas? i have friday, satruday to go if i want. i could just show up and then leave. hmm. thats good.
  6. rich_1517
    that was part of my point. i thought it was weird to post my positive attributes, then i realised. we bring so much worry and negative, which is good for dumping. but an intention to change perspective can change a perspective. just a thought.
  7. rich_1517
    ok well here is as good as anywhere. why is rich awesome? this is hard to do but here goes. i am an accomplished art director i am very good looking i am a really nice guy but still nasty enough to be fun i have limits and test them constantly i adapt to change very fast i am sensual and know how to please women (well) i am passionate and compassionate i have a very calming voice people respond to me well i am a very good artist i have a nice bod (even for 43, i look 30 still) i have great blue eyes i am very athletic even though i smoke i listen (most of the time) i make people feel like they matter i have dreams and act on them i am adventurous i adapt to almost any situation i am nurturing my needs are are taken care of, i dont need to be fixed i have a depth of feelings that helps me help others I am extremely funny i make a very good friend did i say i was handsome? i carry a dark side that attracts women, dont ask me it works. i am humble (oops) so why the self aggrandizement? because we spend so much time hear in the past and future and whats wrong with us, i thought hey good place to start. ok whos next? SING IT!
  8. rich_1517
    ah GeeCee my love you are so right. the component that has been absent has been ME. i get so thrown by pit of despair that i forget that i am fun, good looking, smart, witty and well pretty decent package. its funny we can see others are attracted to us now as we are, but we feel that those things that are great dont exist in the moment with the object of our desire. now why is that? my answer would be: if they were enough they would be with us. we forgot that sometimes their decisions have nothing to do with us. but we take ourselves down anyway. in her own words when she said "dating" -> "you have a lot of the qualities i want in someone" so i guess it would be ok to go on a rich is awesome day, then just make sure i am not cocky or arrogant tomorrow. and you were right on both counts GeeCee, i could have worked her on the phone call as it was and got her to ask. well done is done. but feel free to remind me again, should this come around.
  9. rich_1517
    i realise now that you are all right. GeeCee -> yep its past time she started to show intiative Beec, CleverTrevor, Danimal, -> set the hook deeper before pulling on the line its both and it requires a little more discomfort for me. there is no guarantee that it will pay off but thats the risk isnt it? we show up to win and take the chance. if i pull the hook too soon it wouldnt work, i am building a platform of comfort under her, fun, support, attention, sexual interest, friendship. i understand better now. she hasnt had to work for it yet its just there. the phone call yesterday could have been left at just that. a phone call. thats part of normalising things. Its the lesson i have to learn for next week to be ready to be "flat". the confusion or disruption comes from removing the "assumption" that i am there, and be neutral for first phone calls. no plans. no dates. then make sure i have plans next week from wednesday out. i could set the tone for it by letting her know that i will be working on something soon, so i can use the excuse those nights. the line would be suggesting nothing and now letting her do it. i also think she wants to work for it, just a hunch on that but yesterday was just a "hi" call. she wants seduction but she also wants security, security comes from normal relations. we arent there yet. that is the eventual condition. removing any stress or discomfort is the goal here, she has to lower her defenses, but i need to relax even more and just be me.
  10. rich_1517
    with her its the deafening silence. i am pretty damn frosty about her playing me, so i will take the next two days to do a little house cleaning on myself, and then get out of the house, so to speak. work is really helping my esteem, now i need flirting practice again, always keep those muscles in shape. she will be going into the week with her son, so she will call for first the play and then perhaps dinner with both of them. timming would say do both then disappear prior to her week without him. or do the play but nothing else, as much lead time into her week alone works in my favor. last week we hung out wednesday, thurs, fri. so it make sense she was good till today. better that she has 3 or 4 days going into her week alone, a weekend without me and then me aloof. still need to sort this one out.
  11. rich_1517
    oops sprry for shouting. ok Beec we are thinking exactly the same. she is showing enough response to pull it. i think she would also respect me more and feel more value if she has to work for it. so she will call or ask me to come to her sons play. have to think about that one. but yes coquette is about right. coy and reserved would be even better. my banter with her is enough for it to come natural. i think i may be finally relaxing some. so thrusday should be interesting.
  12. rich_1517
    well its done now. sorry GeeCee, i agree she does have to make effort. it seems like her reward for calling is a fun date. i wish i could get up to speed faster. i said i am doing something thursday would she like to join me? she said yes, what is it? so i told her. she offered to make dinner. but yes she has to start taking initiative becuase it makes her own her own feelings about this. step over some boundaries. its funny she asked about my weekend, i said nothing special, jazz and frends, and you>? she made a point of telling me the boring details, which is good. i need some plans here guys, i really do. i cant post more now, but i need to be able to strategise "before" i see her so i can plan. and i need your help. she made the effort to call, its a good sign. she also told me about her sons play saturday with a hint hint. meaning come. i need a win win on this.
  13. rich_1517
    ok so she called, do i ask to date or leave her hanging?
  14. rich_1517
    hmm, this is a tough game, but the longer i go without calling two things happen 1. i get stronger, for the obvious reason (im not giving it away) and i get more clarity. 2. i lose some hope until she calls. becuase damn, if you say you want to date someone pick up the phone. however you are right, i have shown i will do the footwork so now she is stuck. not a bad place to leave her. waiting until next week seems a bit long. but i hear you. the bummer is this is the week when she doesnt have her son. so i may get a call to come "play" with them. read "friends". but this is more like the old me, no rush, no push, let things fall into place or not. start being involved more in my own life. how do i answer "why didnt you call?" my instincts in a flirty way is to say "well, i had stuff going on (no explanation) i didnt want to push, we spent a lot of time together last week, a break seemed like a good idea, was i wrong?" and wait for her response. calling her will backfire on me, she will do aloof, gotta go. im realising she must be reading the same book. she responds gushingly to flowers, then negative to phone calls. meaning make me feel good, but dont pressure me. well thats just about over.
  15. rich_1517
    Dikaia and GeeCee dont misunderstand me i value your advice, keep it coming. i look to beec and danimal for tactics, becuase they have been studying and practing them. for heart, soul, safety and reality i need all the help i can get. i will get through this but i want different perspectives when i dont see clearly. so dont thin i value anyones input less or more. hell just the fact that you would take time to post to my situation means tons to me. less lonely ya know? rich
  16. rich_1517
    thanks Dikaia i have to think it through i want to hear from beec and danimal. but i am inclined to agree. i have to accept that she is made of stone at times, she will do what is best for her, and sometimes those things are sympathy to make sure she hasnt hurt someones feelings. so the offer to date could be just smoke and mirrors. since she left she has used a very slow path of distance and change, the "nice" let down. its sad really it makes feelings of no importance. i have to accept her as i see her. not a lot of love drive for me. thats just how it is, she is a runner. she blames the past on others as motivation to the next step. i can really pick em. i could be wrong, i hope i am. the question now is do i ask if she is dating others? i think thats my line. thats the point i have to say "i guess its just friends, and thats ok" my strength must start coming out soon. dont give up on yourself, quit again. one of the reasons i havent tried is that i want to be sure i can do it without her affecting it. it would be a huge signal to her that i am trying, and i do smoke less around her, but i need time and help with this one. if she really cares she will know that.
  17. rich_1517
    Hey guyz well its been four days. and no call from her. help me with my logic here or lack of it. during the "two months" she called a lot on weeks she didnt have her son. she doesnt have her son this week and no calls. during it was easy she was covered by "im still deciding" no risk. if she calls now its sending i positive signal to me. doesnt seem like she is comfortable with that yet. or after ten weeks since leaving she is considering her options. my gut tells me to not call, ever. to let her go her way and to not pursue. why? becuase i am available and she worked me pretty good, repsect is difficult to find in a situation like this. i am stronger but she feels too comfortable with me, can be fun and relaxed without any risk but with absolutely no physical contact. thats pretty removed. by waiting her out i let memories and me work on her or not, she makes a call balance begins to shift and she has dropped a major internal hurdle. i have certainly demonstrated unconditional love at this point. too much. she has had no work to do, which meets love tactics guidelines, but... too much and im a door mat. she could take me for gratned very easily. her emotional investment is minor. there is an accappella group playing near her thursday and if a date was going to happen that would be a very good thing to do. But... it seems like if i call i am being pushy, without any sign of a come ahead i continue to weaken my position. so this could be a test of committment and my love for. (long shot). she had to put up with me declining to do things for a long time, including moving in. so what would be advice at this point? there has been one date, and it was fun. i cooked, we went to salsa lessons, then ice cream then she called while driving home. all good signs. is she waiting for me to call? can she truly not see how much control she has had and not give me a break. or is she sparing mine and her feelings by "not leading me on?" hence no calls? so the only path i could see would be calling and taking the risk of being blown off. or send an email "im going to see the accappella group thursday, want to come?" its a different approach. the emial lets her respond without pressure. and if i get the im busy that night i can regroup. fact is she has no life is she is busy these days shes seeing someone, no kidding she really has no life. what would tactics say here?
  18. rich_1517
    Beec Thanks Dikia I mean this from the lungs "i hate you" kidding. thats awesome man hang in there my day is coming. soooooonnnnnn..... no really. i promise. i swear i will quit, its been coming, any day now, well when theres less stress, come on you know i gain wieght when i quit, hey im looking for a job, get off my back. ill smoke if i want to. eeep. thats my mind. scary huh?
  19. rich_1517
    hey Dikaia i havent made it yet still relying on them to stuff my feelings any ideas on the answers to questions if the come up? see second or third thread this post.
  20. rich_1517
    hey guys. boy am i looking forward to posting maybe once a week. ok since a lot of this is new to me, i need help and guidance. for starters i need answers to questions and comments: "why havent you called?" "are you dating" "this doesnt feel right" "im seeing someone" "another date?" i dont know if any of those will come up, but my gut reactions to them are very different then what i would do to recapture. my instinct now is to be aloof and make her come to me, if she doesnt then just a "hi" call in a day or so. funny no contact gives you practice in being aloof. she was relaxed and smiling, friday. calling me on her way home is a big sign thats like old days (original dating). hell she was joke dancing before we left which says yes shes comfortable, but... she was elbowing me in the chair while we were waiting to dance, i hooked my arm in hers, she slipped it out imediately, so i shifted to a nudge. remember she isnt accountable to her own feelings. so she could still say to herself, well hes the reason i have no passion. so my initial thought becuase she doesnt want physical (yet) is to try and use both sides of me. try this on: "ive been looking at what creativity and excitement mean to me, i mean the components, ive had it all my life but how does it fit in my life. ya know?" and then drop it. if she pursues the statement ill tell her i will let her know what i learn. setting the stage for expanding -> that it comes from other emotions and the comfort of expressing them. this is a side attack on lack of passion. thoughts? where do i look up body language?
  21. rich_1517
    ok boyz, you are my team. im on it. damn this means quitting smoking again. keeps coming back to that. and yes i know it has to be "oh i wuit last week, feels pretty good". my concern about her passion is her pattern, she lets loose with the new guy blaming the old. so if i read you right, be the new guy dont be the old guy. man does this mean i have work. no call yet, which im not sure why but feels about right. i will stop guessing and get to work. guess this means if/when she is dating someone else and says golly this isnt working, i say ok thats fine. right? i almost wish she would, ya know approach it real stupid and reaction based so she makes a mistake. unfortunately not her style, but one can hope. ok so she calls and wants to get together. what would be your suggestions as to how to help her let go and be herself. wait, i will let her talk herself into something she already loves doing, be supportive, aprpeciative, then withdraw again. im still picking my way through art of seduction, takes time to see where and how to apply it. i have to do some work on me then, get the emotional security from the game, thats hard for me im pretty honest by nature. but the goal is worth it. acck.
  22. rich_1517
    I post my name so you can ignore if you tire of the story, i think i am. ok so she left now over two months ago to "decide" called a lot hasnt dated anyone etc. came back and said, well i see you more as friend but lets date and see. three years together, she waited too long to say anything about her needs and POOF! i tire of the game. i have been using no contact and limited contact. I did tell her i wanted to marry, then pulled away again to give her space. havent actively pursued. but heres the kicker. she shuts down sexually. I finally said "ok i am willing to initiate". so now she says "i want more passion in my life, its my choices in men that have led to me shutting down" ok that does it. i have hung in here trying the "game" to get her back, stayed out of feelings, hid my hurt. dealt with being taken for granted. but thats the one i cannot stand. why? beacuse she wont do joy, strong disappointment, etc. for anyone clued into feelings you cant have passion without those basic emotional needs being met. she blocks them off. dont misunderstand me shes a great woman but she needs to see that those things dont work. the point is i cannot create passion in an area she associates me as the problem with. its time to send the letter that says, hey dating is great, but there is no way i can overcome this and bring passion back to us as long as you see me as the problem. if you cannot consider that basic emotional needs and expressing them to the one who cares for you are the source of passion then i cant do this. its a lose, lose situation for us both and i have to let go. some on this forum would say its too early for that, that i must make her want me more before setting conditions. its not a condition, its a wall that i will smash against and she will stand behind in safety. Yes she misses me, but no she isnt vulnerable to me. those words (nicer of course about passion) and saying i have to let go now and i will miss you are the only way i see anymore to keep my self respect and hers. we built who we were on honesty, i am no longer comfortable playing her, A becuase it wont work, and B: it sets a bad precedent for honesty. without the passion issue being considered i dont see how she would let go. I want advice from anyone who is willing to give it. if you dont understand please PM me. thanks
  23. rich_1517
    Beec heres where my expereince this area comes into play. BUt i will go for a long ride, walk, work out friends etc. to try and get some perspective first she has said "i want more passion in my life" "it was my choices in men that i shut down" there is no escaping that one. she will not "allow" passion to occur as long as she will not consider the possiblity that her not wanting to experience strong joy or disappointment are the reasons for her lack of passion. all of her relationships have failed on this point. the irony is i am very passionate and intimate, we have all the components but the passion was something she controlled. if it isnt addressed she will never go there, she will want to bust out again from a repressive situation she sees as the cause and distance herself from the "joy" and "disapoinment" we now have her reasons for such hesitation in the face of love. her confusion makes sense. the letter which i will post later is first "we cannot overcome friends as long as that exists" and "i am letting go" one key fact here is i cannot be "myself" without some sense of openness returning. she is running this show, but without that concept on the table nothing can happen. i will consider very strongly whether to send it but this honors my own feelings and what i believe to be the truth. she will have to "want" to change that perception for any passion to remerge, there is no other way. I know her too well. and if seh chooses to not face it i dont want her anyway, this would always come back and bite me. and lets face it my walking will either have an impact or it wont but we will both respect me more.
  24. rich_1517
    crap. it took two days for me to realise im much flatter than i thought. im being judged right now on my "fun to date and sexual appeal" catagory. i would say the places and things are great. my sense of humor and confidence decent. but im blocked from aggressive flirting and approach. im still gun shy and hurt underneath. i park it and hide it and and. it works but it leaves a guy who is kind of under control. she wants more passion in her life under control doesnt fit that bill. i will not keep trying to be everything she wants, but i do want to be more fun again. i have set the stage that allows her to take me for granted and i am doing the "no contact" to get her attention that way. but... i have to sort some things out to get more "fun" into rich. but the fact is she is slightly immature right now. she seems to block herself off from passion while in a relationship, then wants it all when out. then gets back in etc etc. i may still be associated with the "block" she doesnt know exists. i am getting ready to send the letter. i think its the only way to address not being taken for granted and that bringing passion to a relationship requires wanting it as a life component not a reaction to being repressed. I messed up and forced her to play to my tune about committment, she forced me to live a life with limited passion. thats the letter.
  25. rich_1517
    i can relate. my mom died of cancer when i was 17, the girl i was seeing spent two weeks being supportive then started in with "what about me and my needs?" so i let her go. good thing i found out later. the petty fights and arguments over little things are could be one of two things (my guess), finding where he is in the relationship by establishing some sense of what he can control. Or there are possibly bigger issues he cant talk about openly so he picks. (remember im guessing). but before you try and solve the problems of a possible relationship with your ex, ask yourself why you want him back. sure we miss someone when they have touched us, thats normal. but do you want it back the way it was? chances are that unless someone changed (you or him) it will be the same. sounds like the two of you have hurt each other pretty well and are both still angry. fact is you went out with his friend. how would you feel if he dated with one of yours? you will have to go a hard road to get him back i think. These are only suggestions about what would work for me (seek other advice as well). 1. dont date anyone 2. do not ask him to come back 3. ask him if he would like to go on a date 4. dont talk about your wanting him back 5. do apologise (dont plead) for any hurt you caused 6. tell him you understand if he is upset, that you would like to see him, if only as a friend, that you value having him in your life. win his heart one date at a time, be humble but self respecting so he can get over his anger, dont date others to show you know you screwed up. this might work there are no guarantees and no promises. if you are able to do this you will feel pretty good about your self. why? becuase its extremely hard. I have done it. but remember your mom is the biggest thing going on in your life, you may need someone who can love and support you through this. i would seriously consider that first, and also that you need yourself too.
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