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rich_1517

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  1. rich_1517
    so it begins she called to have lunch. i told her i had already gone. but i could do coffee. I thought about saying no, but i said sure, but have to keep it short. she looked good, i was smiling. she asked me about my day and i said its good but imstruggling with quitting. she was really smiling and glad to see me. there was much more old her there today. it was weird. so i decided to be a little removed this time, not seeking anything. just light and fun, then had to get going. im tweaking her a little. i said i keep passing the cable cars, and i have never been. so i said im going to. boy did her face go through some changes. i think she was thinking hes going to do it without me. i am still nervous about all this. withdrawl is still called for. the question is how much. i turned lunch into a short coffee, my fear is she may try to do alot of contact up to the weekend then POOF. like im planning. but suggestions on how much withdrawl. she was very different today. she had really wanted to do lunch, she looked more confused than normal. i also didnt give compliments or strokes this time. i definitely had the "nice to see you" game face on. thats it.
  2. rich_1517
    i know i am posting a lot to myself here, but i am also processing really fast right now. healing conversation. the idea that the other person gets a chance to express themselves, about whatever they want. the idea is sound. and not intended to express my feelings but to get her to express hers. thats a tough one, but what do you think. point is we arent talking, not about anything meaningful. ZERO. communication is critical to relationship growth. so this must come into it somewhere. i suppose if we make it to a date, this one should have that in it. tell her if she wants to talk about something she can with me, ill listen. i have said that before but it may be time again. counter point to that is she is feeling phobic. and letting her NOT talk about her feelings may be best.
  3. rich_1517
    im not expecting her to go first. oh, yeah she would be wouldnt she? if her hard condition is smoking then yeah that is a big leap, her fear she expressed during a platonic date was "why would changes stay after things were back to normal"? it was a conversation in abstract, but very telling. anyone familiar with addictions or themselves knows we fall back on who we really are when we have what we want. hmmmm. thats been one of the reasons i have waited on smoking some, to know i am ready. but i feel the clock tick tock on this one. i was smoking saturday, and on our last date. it makes me mad, but it is key isnt it? guess i cant say anything to her unless she calls, i will have to say "well im struggling with quitting, this is still taking time and very frustrating but i know i will make it". which is true. but we have the other thing working against us now. TIME. you can only stay in a frustrating situation so long before you get tired. that applies to us both. so Beec are you saying be proactive again? make simple contact, like email or a hi phone call? that would fit the set up for the weekend where i dont make a suggestion i make her make one, help me out here you just confused me.
  4. rich_1517
    Spatz here is my sugestion for what its worth. she is still trying to keep a connection with you. its a thin connection based on a lot of non clarity. i know this is hard. i have been doing it for some time. you have to get out, do other things get your head clearer. dont post for a couple hours, be elsewhere. we start by giving them power in our head and then in life. my take is no dont tell her how you feel, start a conversation that lets her tell you how she feels, then dont respond. give yourself a couple of days to respond. ask her "After" you have a good time. take the heat off yourself and look forward to fun not talking. while you are having a good time dont imagine that things are going somewhere becuase you are. act like a friend right now. no pressure. then towards the end of the night, ask her "was there anything you wanted to talk about?" if she says no. then leave it alone for now. the reason i say this is you arent ready to let her go, but you dont have her back. so take the middle road a little longer. UNLESS you are prepared to move on without her. but be ready for it to be over based on a real or percieved ultimatum. the fact that she wants to see you is a good sign, give her good memories. if after she says things you need to understand, come back here, sort it out with us. THEN respond to her. you cant tell someone you are fine without them. you show them. i go a long time before i make my calls. she calls me far more. but that doesnt change anything. its the actions when you are together and apart that speak louder.
  5. rich_1517
    iccck. heres another thought. this weekend is more important than i realised. i am actually pretty good at the underlying patterns that go with situations like this. its been a while (that i can see) since she started having interactive fun with a male. she is selfish enough that i imagine she is thinking the same thing. her pattern of calling me and wanting to talk, but not being receptive to my calls says she has mental boundaries around what she is sending out. meaning she isnt comfortable with "knowing" she is leading me on. so my calls remind her of that and she doesnt like it. so too soon for things to percolcate? not really, her offer of dates said "a couple" if she calls me to do something it will be a another good sign, but i have to prepare that she is now thinking otherwise. the only catch for her is putting it out there. im the dater, the one who actively pursues what i want. she is the sit and wait, then get spooked, the same mystery she wants she uses. i am realising that the value of her offer to date will be tested real soon. this doesnt stop my plan, only reinforces it. but all the more reason for me to lock up a date.
  6. rich_1517
    youa re right Beec, under normal circumstances, but we have a goofy one here. she doesnt know herself real well, but she is self oriented. so she the mercy dates could really be all she needed to satisfy her guilt. im not asking her to feel guilt but she may, she may also want to be sure she gave it the college try. she was reading romance novels in the months preceeding the break up. i paid attention but with no intimicy happening i couldnt act on it. i think i understand better now. she wants the dark mystery character to pull her out of her chains of passionate denial. there is a time and place to approach personal passion and a setup for a mystery. these i know how to do. but she would have to have enough flame going on for it to happen. which isnt right now. its the smoking and the diet coke. every book, article, online support talks about change. and if you are too stubborn to change those things then maybe this isnt for you. becuase there are no guarantees. but its there. I have changed two major areas, steady job and not my business, i get out and plan things to do. now its personal health because im older, she wants to know ill be around in thirty or forty years for kids and her. so i get it, loud and clear. and the clock is ticking. but the difficulty of quitting is the emotional side i need more stability to ease me through that. grrrrrr. damn. damn. i guess i have to try, and get out of my own denial.
  7. rich_1517
    ok so whos pinch hitting? im kidding you seem to be all sports analogies, i saw your other posts. the middle. im trying to figure out what the middle looks like. its not spending time together, that part i know. i do want more, and im angry that she may be using me to kill time, she just keeps looking at what she doesnt want. bear in mind im venting but i need to. ok IF she asks for a date, it does need to be on a weekend for me. but i dont know, even if she asks its still on her ground rules. she calls i go running. its weird its like the fact that i showed up for her son is now standing against me. figure that one out. maybe its simple, maybe becuase i am playing by her rules she is frustrated and wants to see backbone. but it makes ummm feel pretty lousy inside. its getting to be time she knew just what she is doing. i dont know guys this may just be one for the books. i know why she is confused on some level, she knows she has issues. i was the first person who ever really made her feel loved. and its true it was easy to love her. but... she needs love and passion herself... but she doesnt know how that works.... but she doesnt trust anyone to teach her.. so... she will start looking again, yeah thats it a guy who has what rich has but not what rich has.... but.. oh yeah my issues.... and around we go. in the meantime shes stuck with me wanting more. so remove the part of the equation that doesnt work and the rest either adds up to me or zero. this is where playing it cool drives me nuts. if she was open to talking i could help. but.... i cant can i?
  8. rich_1517
    well yes and no. but i am coming to a balance of sorts. next week will be a hard week for her. the ex husband is taking the kid on a vacation, she had made plans that will now not work out. i am going to keep her at arms length right up until the weekend (thats if she calls). my way of dealing with her will be simple. cant do coffee when she is in the city, deadlines. when we hit the weekend i have to not be available for dates. this will be hard. but must be done. i mean do i have this right? that she needs to see a withdrawl in me even if she wants a date? thats what i think but dont know. if so then its well i made plans, how about later in the week? this opens a door for others perhaps, or not but if she isnt smart enough to know what i am doing at this point and gets pissy about it, well too bad. i have this right yes? that even if she wants a date she gets the short stick for the first time? the danger is she will retailliate and move away on me. but i guess thats where we are. grrrr.
  9. rich_1517
    would you call this rash? i have contacted the girl i was seeing when i was dating the ex. i saw them both for four months before i chose. the funny thing is i asked them both the same quesiton becuase i sought independent women but wanted to know "will you ever let yourself need me?" sometimes divorcees and indpendant people have a real problem with trust. understanably but i wanted someone who would see through that. well the ex said yes, the other girl said i dont know if i could. it turns out that maybe she was the more honest of the two, i know the first girl was in love with me when i let her go. i am going to just do coffee with her but who knows. she is in the same space i am "not looking" which is just about right. if the ex doesnt do something soon she will lose me. i am preparing myself to not look back.
  10. rich_1517
    ok fair enough no rash decisions. i will pick a target date. i will not make any assumptions right now either but i am at my limit on this. i am prepared to let the wheels come off. she has been so removed and well cavalier with my feelings since the beginning that hell i would lose respect for me. the point is she is taking this as a bonus prize to leaving. i dont see real doubt in her. i see someone who wants what she wants. so she gets nothing but polite right now, if she calls. it will take real reserve on my part to not say "i dont think so" to a date, or just a "listen i have to go, thanks for calling" every time. no feelings, no asking, no nothing. I am angry
  11. rich_1517
    thanks guys keep it coming you are stoking my resolve. i realised something. i stopped working out and doing the things i had been for the last week. i got complacent. thinking about that Beec. i will give that a sidebar in my head to work on. something that requires contact but not dancing. fact is while things are in limbo, they are still effectively over. so i have to act as such, seek emotional fulfillment elsewhere. dump my sadness and anger elsewhere. I dont know if i can quit smoking right now. it may be the hitch for her, but its adding alot of stress to stress. she and i would have to talk about that ot i would have to be a lot more grounded. yeah im frustrated and angry but its funny this game allows you to see more clearly, by showing up without conditions i have gotten stronger for it and in some way put in distance for myself. it feels like things are further apart then they were, if thats possible. but yeah time to withdraw. next weekend though should we connect something must be said, on some level else i am saying sure use me.
  12. rich_1517
    fair enough, just a bad day i think. i can really pick them. she will call. its what i say when she does. i think i have to screen a couple and then take a day to get back. damn, i cant see this one yet. its in there, i need my confidence solid again. becuase she doesnt hand out clues im stuck. i have to think about what respect would look like to her, how much to withdraw and my response to her when she does call. she may even say a date? but im getting tired of neuter dates. i need to see some movement to stay in the game. or do i? guess its time to focus on me again, get grounded, dont sulk, smile, work out etc. she must blink first right? damn.
  13. rich_1517
    GeeCee you are on the right track, this path will lead you where you eventually want to be. whether with or without. you know my story and the guy i have become is an even better catch then he was before. remember this, is delicous sex worth the pain of continued ambiguity and not knowing? you have the friendship and respect thing it seems, your hook is sex. for this you must be strong, if mine came and came on strong, i would actually hold her off, knowing that would drive her nuts. it may seem dishonest but there will be a time when the two of you can talk again open and honestly. earn his trust, dont give in to the short term play. im with you on this.
  14. rich_1517
    uh oh. you seeing what i may be feeling? she aint into to it? or do you think this is the best plan? oh man this is tough, i knew it would be. i am lost again. i have stopped living again. i am depressed AGAIN. and why? becuase i have let myself have some hope. i do want to write something. we havent said a words about anything besides banter in a very long time, even when she came back we kept it to half and hour. damn, damn, damn. just like no contact, and love tactics, cant say anythning about feelings. someone help me to understand why i just walk away? and if she follows is it time to push the "i want more button?" or the "im not sure about this" button. i am unsure what to do. give me strength not to call her and ask what she thinks she is doing.
  15. rich_1517
    damn today is hard. she is so flat emotionally, i called tonight just to say i had a good time. she was happy i came, etc. but she is so flat, there is no read here. i have to do something and im not sure. i dont think the dating will do it. she doesnt see the value. there are two emails i want to send one is "i am unsure what to do next, you had said that you want more passion in your life, what do you think that looks like? i am willing to try new things to help that happen, i do need you to start communicatin with me if you can. to trust me again as you did and tell what you want. if we cant get there i understand." the other "if we continue with this neutered friendship you will lose me becuase i will resent it and you will take me for granted, which i already feel to some degree. to continue i need you to take some steps in my direction, some indication that you want more from me, that you are willing to try. we have a lot to offer each other, but if you dont see the value in that i have to let go. i will miss you and i will miss forrest. this is very hard but i believe we will be ok in the end. i dont have any regrets. i cant pursue someone who doesnt want to caught
  16. rich_1517
    Hey Beec i think you have done well. so your advice carries the weight of experience. the time is now. i reliased after last night im sucking vaccuum and that this is becoming too platonic. one track says continue to woo her, seduce her play the game a little longer track two says walk away enough to make her wonder, then pop in after she makes a move track three says dump her nicely, and hand her the walking papers. make the loss very clear. last night was good but hard. i left out that her ex husband was there, he is always moody but she was worried about him. he has been so so to me in the past but last night he was ice cold. i said hi to him and he just snubbed me, i was cool and confident about it. she had wanted to go outside becuase she was doing concession. i was kind of afraid she wanted to talk to him, she has said she never wants him back, too judgemental, too moody, too selfish. today i am sitting in damn i wonder if she is using me to get to him? that would explain all the distance. but then that could also be my mind messing with me. as usual. they hooked up after the divorce and had great sex she says. but he is going to be with the new love of his life in peru soon, to try and bring her back. but soemthing stinks. i just cant figure out what is up with her. but i feel like spatz, can i ask if there is someone else? not really.
  17. rich_1517
    Spatz you are going to hate this comment. suppose what she says is true. that the relationships was too serious. is it possible you are applying more pressure than she is comfortable with?
  18. rich_1517
    so went to meet her and her son for dinner before his play. went very well. hey the whole thing did. from previous excursions i have learned to check in with myself after a few hours to make sure im not getting bummed or angry or or or... and i did excellent. the kids play was a blast. we all had alot of fun. there is still no physical contact. i did a few things different though. during dinner she was a b##tch to the service people and i scolded for it, she got upset and i apologised. but it was important to show her i am willing to incur her displeasure to say what i feel is right. so i am much more confident and contained emotionally. at the same time i am focused and more engaging, and i listen. now its her that wont hold eye contact for too long or is crossing her legs and fidgeting. anyone want to tell me what thats about? but the neutered nature, non romance, non sexual aspects are bugging me still. is she just trying to keep a friend. or does she want to find her feelings? the friends route is frought with emotional disappointments. i have to not let fear get to me. to be honest i dont think i can turn her, that doesnt mean i wont try. but i think she would be able to handle me seeing others, and moving on. she has seen enough to have me as a friend in her life and that may be really bad. so this comes to next steps, and how hard to play them. my gut says let her start coming my way more. touch base randomly, be unavailable in others but make her ask for next date. anyone know how to send a lite signal of your losing me? besides not calling that is, already have that one down. it may require a long distancing, this cannot go as is or it will become normal and safe for her. by long distancing i mean be busy, way busy. she calls for a date, i say i would love to what day? shoot that wont work how about?.... etc. stretch it out dont call. show active disinterest. then pop back in. we have been on a pretty close timeline. since she came back we do connect at least twice a week in person if not more. i need to put in an entire week of zero connection. i have to quit smoking, there is no avoiding that one. to come over her own boundary that must happen. even if passion comes back. the thing is her passion was missing before this anyway. can i show her? i dont know. the one weird thing about tonight is when i left, she said thanks for coming, kind of flat a hug and peck on the cheek. not it was "great you could come" just "thanks for coming". i think i was a present to her kid, ya know? but the smoking is big. i cant escape that and the clock is ticking on it. the only way for her to look past my age is to see me living longer. i feel one more visit with her and her son this week, perhaps to work on the comic he and i were doing, i dropped if off today when i saw them and said why dont you hang onto this? it was a very subtle message you could read two ways. im putting distance in. or find an excuse to invite me up. but im definitely into mixed signals. the bond is getting stronger and i feel that tolerating one more "non date - date" would be ok. Thoughts? ill post more this is long enough. but man what a turn around on me ive done. if her heart is to be had i am very confident im the one to do it. this feels great.
  19. rich_1517
    you have helped me a lot with that Beec. my hat is off to you. i just ignored a phone call from her, knowing it was just confirmation of the meet. i hate the game but it is necessary. plus i put a new outgoing message on my phone. i dont know why that rings peoples bells (exes) but it does. i guess its change from familiar. ok well now to do my pre game show. work out, get outside, play some golf. and for gods sakes smile!
  20. rich_1517
    well i seem to be on track. i called to say hi and need directions to play. she said can we do dinner too? her phone had been on silent so i said i was deeply hurt (j/k) and she said one wrist or two? meaning slicing, i said i can only handle a paper cut on the pinky worth of paint today. when i asked about the show, i said good that his is first becuase i have plans after. she dead panned on that no read on it. so she is behaving like normal, but..... long range plan. back together is the only thing i want, so push pull is the plan. i just need to fine tune it to meet my situation. i have to turn the friends thing to more, so thats pushing respect, fun and friendship to passion. i wish there was a sure fire way to that besides a dead on kiss. my best tactic is back rubs. AHA! find something that works us physically and then offer a back rub. but the other part first, no calls, then wait for her call and idea for a date. but again something in here needs to say "respect me" and whether thats competition or something else i dont know. IDEAS!
  21. rich_1517
    man good point Beec.
  22. rich_1517
    hmmm. well the high risk needs to be based on potential outcome. are her feelings sufficient for it to be effective. gambling on ultimatums must be thought out. i have wrestled with this myself. my own feelings are twofold on that one. two things must be true 1. do not play the card to lose. play it only when you know it will win. 2. you must be able to live with not getting what you want. and of course if its only to end your own pain and confusion, dont do it. play the trump card at the moment its most effective. that may sound overly cautious but i sense you dont have the the answers to the first two right now. i agree that removing being taken for granted must happen but there are other ways to do that. (buy love tactics). for the long play (which i have been doing). beec has helped me a lot on this. you set the stage to reseduce them back into the relationship. no guarantees and you must walk with not knowing the outcome for some time, settle for less. but you get a chance to get clearer, to see if this is what you want. the long play requires that you let go of the past and the future and rebuild you now for you, then she will see these things or she wont. but you become more attractive an option. you also have to take care of yourself alone emotionally, physically and mentally. and you may find over time you no longer want her. BUT you must turn over all the baggage of your feelings. accept that no one can fix them except you. you must treat it as over and greive, get angry, start healing. bear in mind i dont know your situation closely but i get an idea about it. so i am not saying what you should do. only you can make that call. we all mean well, but we also like feeling like we mean well. in the end you must live with you. i hope this helps. i have very similar experience.
  23. rich_1517
    and what is tonight? what is the stated purpose of tonight to her?
  24. rich_1517
    Hi Spatz im just joining in. i can see that this has been hard for. when is this "meeting" i would like to help. i do notice that you think about this a lot. i highly reccomend you do not meet for any conversation if you cannot get yourself grounded. if one of your goals is to get this girl back someday one of the things you need to show is self respect and confidence. but also if you want to maintain self respect. i dont mean to left hook you and add more doubt when you already have plenty. try to think long term, in our rush to resolve emotional hurt we make short term decisions that impact long term plans. you dont actually have to say a damn thing to her. you can go grey area for as long as "you" want and can stand. if you need resolution to end your hurt and confustion, you are the one who controls that not her. sorry to jump in like this. im reading your earlier posts to find out more. when is this meeting? please let me know.
  25. rich_1517
    you are both right. its time but timming. do the unpredictable. i havent called her in a week so today i will call. tonight is her sons play and i said i would come, i have to throw something in the mix though, either change it to come tomorrow when her mom is there, or scold for something she said the other night. something that says "not door mat" i have to think through the mom thing, this will make her feel very awkard. she did not tell her mom i was there before the two months were up basically hiding it to not be judged. it would rattle her cage some and i dont know if in a good way. the cancelling of going is a big one, this is her sons first play. i have to show. the way she said it was. "my dad is coming friday, you saturday, my mom sunday' ill have one of you each night. i wont read into that but something about it was right. the game plan is on for this week, maybe do something mid week, but she will have to call for it. so during the week, a couple calls by me, nothing pushy just "hi" then withdraw. break the assumption. by targeting wednesday i am setting the stage for trepidation going into the weekend, i want her not planning other things so i have to leave the assumption that i will ask for a date there. i feel kind of bad, a heart to heart will have to happen at some point.
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