confused70

I would stay broken up. You will spend the next two years not trusting her - reading her text messages, emails, etc.. Especially being so far away and seeing her infrequently.. You deserve better. I dont think nice guys finish last, but they DO get taken advantage of.

I believe that's probably true... I'm a sensitive guy, but I can't read my own emotions.. I'm concerned about her.. I hope she doesn't kill herself. I hope she can pay the bills. I hope she's happy. I hope she thinks good about me and doesn't hate me. I hope she doesn't say bad things about me to the kids or my family. I guess that's about it. When I drink I used to picture her in my head and think happy thoughts about her. I would see her when I closed my eyes. None of that is true anymore.. Does that mean I dont love her? When she started seeing other guys, she set me up with a woman that she underestimated. The woman is beautiful, smart, and caring. Do I have different feelings for my wife because I have fallen for this woman. If that were the case, she would deserve it.. How can I tell. I feel guilty and depressed.. I've told them both to leave me a lone so I can figure stuff out, and now I feel lonely. This is my first relationship, I have no skills here... ;(

I think this is tricky. What does he do? What do you do?

Dont let your history dictate your future.

She is 33, I am 36. I really feel she loves me now, in the last two weeks, she has done a 180. She's trying very hard. This has been going on for a year, and I'm shot. At the beginning of the year, I lost 30 pounds, was suicidal, and passed out one time as she was leaving for a "date". She left anyways. Prior to the beginning of the year, she was great.. for 17 years.. My now 16 year old was two when we got married. Her parents wanted me to marry her because of the pregnancy but I specifically did not do it because of the pressure they were applying. Here's the thing, I dont know how I feel. Two years ago, I knew she was very heavy, but she really looked awesome to me. I thought she looked great. I was all over her and would try to get sex always. I think this is because I was so in love with her. I was never mean to her, but she feels as though I didn't stand up for her when others were mean. Of course I never heard it, but she thinks she heard things. Now, in the last year, I suddenly can see all of her flaws. I konw it sounds like Shallow Hal, but did I just fall out of love?

You know what? This was really great.. It made me realize I haven't judged her. I've blamed myself and held her as harmless as possible. In a good way, she would describe me as nice, generous, trusting, providing, etc.. In a bad way, she would describe me as stressed out. That's about the only bad thing she's ever said. She's angry over two events.. First of all, 15 years ago (when I was 21), I worked for a consulting firm, and we took clients to a topless bar. I told my wife once and she was upset.. So, I didn't tell her again. She found out later and was upset. Later, I had a partner who I took to a topless bar for his bachelor party.. She found out about that from somebody else and held it in for 15 years. She actually quoted that as a source of her anger for what she did. Second, she said I never took her anywhere when she was overweight.. I invited her to concerts, sporting events, and traveling. I took her to Chicago, Las Vegas, and vacations.. Her memory is that I left her at home. Third, she hooked my brother up with a girl that became his wife. She said (at the time), isn't she beautiful? I said, "yes, she's a doll." A few months later, this girl told my wife that she would never let her self go as much as my wife. At that point she became my wife's arch enemy, and my wife was mad at me for saying she was a doll months earlier when they were friends. Those are the three reasons she quotes for having been so mad as to seek revenge.

Ok... this one made me laugh.. thanks, trust me, I needed this.. I think she's been holding something back waiting until she good seek revenge.. building anger until she could seek revenge.. Great advice.. how would I carry on without her in those cases... Thank You!

Yes, I'm in talk therapy.. I was, but I expired my benefits, then went to a psychologist primarily interested in prescribing drugs. I start my new therapy in a few weeks.

I think some people can hide their feelings over time and as they become more comfortable, they "let it all hang out." He may have said the same things as you to seem compatible.

Ok. Breathe. Relax. (I know, it's easy to say.. right?) I work for an insurer and I know that we have practitioners bill under one tax id for a variety of services. Basically, what I mean is that they perform many services there. He may have to have a blood test to prove he's clean, and they obviously do that there, too. IF he was going there for HIV testing, he may not have it. IF he was going there for HIV treatment, you may not have contracted it. IF by some horrible fate, you did contract it - it's no longer a death sentence. There are many treatment options available these days, and I heard on one popdcast that there is a drug that has CURED some lab animals completely of HIV that is only waiting government approval (and more testing).. My last point is this, if it was noticed early enough - it could be treated more effectively. Most likely you could live for a LONG time before it moved on to AIDS. Hopefully that would give time to have an effective drug released. You just need to relax for 13 weeks. Go see a movie. Go out with friends, etc. There's no since in worrying about something that may or may not be and that you cant change anyways.

Thank you for all of the insight. I really appreciate it. I hate to sound selfish, but this seems to be a good place to recover..

Heh.. oh.. my first response was on page two... I didn't see it.. I'm a quick one...

Thanks for the great advice! The only thing I can say is that first I have rationalized this by her weight loss - which makes her want more attention and her horrible childhood - drug addicted dad that would throw orgies that she would walk into.. We did have 17 great years.. then I have been stunned, unable to react, and concerned about the kids.. Now in the last two weeks,she's crying, apologetic, wants back, wants reconciliation, promises to make it better than ever before.. I feel everything you've said, though.. I think the fabric of our relationship is destroyed, but I'm still drawn to her - I think it's comfort more so than being "in love".. Thanks for all of your advice.. This site is great!

Thanks for the great advice, guys... I dont know why I'm struggling so much inside. It's been a great 17 years together (that's probably why), the last one has really sucked.. And in the last two weeks she seems to have turned around and wants back in (and has said she will make it up to me), but only after I refused to allow her back which makes me think it's survival not love.. .. and I think she has destroyed the fabric of our relationship.. I've rationalized what she's done in my mind by her weight loss.. That she seeks the attention because she's been trapped behind the weight.. And she had a bad childhood with a dad that was addicted to drugs and would have orgies that she would walk into - as a child.. But... then 17 great years.. That's how I rationalized the recent behavior... ... but still... dont think I can get over that stuff.. Thanks again for the advice. I DO appreciate it. I cant believe I stumbled on this site.. very nice..

Oh yeah.. even though what she just did at the football game (above in story).. she says she realizes she messed up and can make it up to me and make my life better than it's ever been... but I think she's just lonely and fighting for survival. Thoughts?

Yeah.. sorry about that.. I was babbling.. I felt as though my wife was using my love for her against me. She was putting me in a position I didn't want to be in. I felt trapped. When she left, I finally felt truly free. Now she wants back and I'm afraid to let her back and afraid to make her stay out. I'm indecisive at best. To boot, I have strong feelings for my girlfriend.. Which is why I took a step back from both of them. I do not want, nor did I ever want an open marriage. I'm not built that way, and cant handle it. I'm looking for general insight or thought exploration that would help me understand what to expect.. either way.

I should add that I have very strong emotions for my girlfriend (she is smart, strong, beautiful, etc..), the only thing that makes me pause (other than gener indecisiveness) is that she has three kids, too. Together, that's six kids. And, her kids are quite unruly.

First, I apologize for an incredibly long message, but I feel to provide useful advice, you must know the details.. (I'll try to keep it brief, though... ) I am in my mid 30's, have a very good job, am in the process of finishing my Bachelor's degree (nine more classes - yeah!), have three children, and a wife of fifteen years (18 years "together").. My wife is also my first girlfriend and my first sexual experience. She had quite a few partners pror to me. Over the years I've gone from being very independent to being very dependant... on her for my self-worth, vaildation, etc.. With our first child, she had put on some considerable weight. (Well.. actually almost added 300 pounds..) SHe held the weight and lost about half of it to have our second and third child, then put some back on. She was an "at home" mom.. She always made sure that dinner was done, there were clean clothes to wear, and that I had good sex. I did the traditional male chores - ie.. trash, grass, etc.. Cleaning wasn't really her bag, she spent a good amount of her time in front of the tv until the internet came along, and then moved there. Our sex life was very good. We both had fantasies and we would role play, etc.. I had a fantasy that bothered me.. I wanted to be in a threesome with her and a woman and her and a man. (I could never figure out why I wanted to be in a threesome with her and a man..) To be fair, fantasies of humiliation / degradation began to turn me on. I think it's because I'm in a responsible position and am a responsible person, removing any control was a release... That's just a guess, though.. It could also be because I'm so inexperienced in sex and relationships, being in this position removed responsibility of performance and fulfillment. Anyhow, we would share stories, and talk about it, but both agreed we should NEVER do anything like that. She applied for bariatric surgery a few years ago, but was denied because she didn't have a history of attempted weight loss. I helped her keep some records and we used it to reapply, and she was accepted. She lost amazing weight and looked great in no time. About this time, I was very stressed out and depressed. I had a lot on my plate, and it seemed to be expanding with bills (sole provider, etc..).. Whatever she would want, I would find a way to buy (and whatever I would want), and bills were stacking up. I was starting to drop things at home and work, and people were starting to notice - which increased the pressure. Soon, had difficulty getting an erection, she read this as I wasn't attracted to her anymore and became hurt. I hadn't diagnosed the depression yet, but knew something was wrong, and tried to reassure her that it wasn't her. Our anniversary came and passed, and she told me that she wanted to start "seeing other people." I asked her what this meant and flatly refused. She said if I didn't let her do this, she would leave me. Remember from above this is my FIRST relationship, although longterm, I am inexperienced in relationships. SO... after much miserable deliberation - I said fine - the rules are - dont fall in love, dont get pregnant, dont get a disease. Prior to her doing her thing, she wanted to have a threesome with me and another woman to "ease her conscience.." We had a nice threesome, although I was nervous... I was terrified this would ruin my relationship with my wife who I was very much in love with. I felt her watching me, and in the back of my head I thought she would replay everything over and over.. So... I produced no erection... She asked me "what my problem was.." I felt horrible in front of this woman and my wife.. I told my wife to go into the bathroom.. She did, and I produced an erection.. I think it was the guilt of her being there.. Well, that really made her feel as though it was her I was unattracted to.. Although, I tried to explain it, she was still hurt. She admitted to meeting a guy in the parking lot of the gym I work out in and felating him right there in the parking lot.. (and weeks later having sex with him at his parents house).. She went out on her first date and came home hours later. The next day she called me at work to tell me she was raped. I told her to go immediately to the Police Department, she said no. Then she told me he was much more endowed than me and she reached orgasm five times. That stunned me. I told her I wanted to confront him, but she couldn't find where he lived (was drunk when she went there with him). This whole scenario left me stunned for a long time.. More on this later.. We would go out and watch Monday Night Football together.. So, we did.. And this guy showed up at my house beating on my door while we were gone screaming, "Let me in.." My daughter called us terrified.. We told her to call the police.. She did and the guy was gone before they got there. We rushed home and the rest of the night was uneventful. Well, the woman that we had a threesome with came over to console my wife. She also told her that if it was my wife's intent to have extramarital sex, I should be entitled to it, and she would love to be the one to provide it. My wife agreed. She went out with somebody else who had just gone through a divorce and they seemed to hit it off. So well, that her friends started calling me and telling me to pay attention, and that if things didn't work out with her, they'd like to go out with me.. (?).. So, I started coming home early, and checking up on lunch (yes, work performance was horrible).. Anyhow, I soon found out that this guy was hoping to start a web development business and she financed a laptop for him (because I (yes me) have good credit).. My wife began to write this guy that she would like to be more involved with him and his boys and that she loved him. She snuck around with him a few times. She used my credit cards to buy him gas and food. One time, I caught her at the store buying food for him, but she said it was for her other friend. After much sex, they're relationship fizzled and she took delivery of the laptop (and I (yes me) gave him a refund for the payments he had made, and then paid it off at the store.) I didn't NEED a laptop, but it had been past 30 days. During this, I had gone out with the woman a few times, but was petrified for my relationship and never produced a SINGLE erection. I sent my wife several emails and had several conversations begging her to end this and not have me go through with it on my side. At one point she grabbed me by the throat and said, "Just f****ing do this.." She then told me it would ease her own conscience. After thinking about it, I realized that if I would EVER be okay with what she was doing, it would probably only be if I was doing something, too. So... I went to the doctor and got Viagra. POOF.. erections were a problem of the past. This was weird.. my wife took me to that woman's house and babysat her children while she sent us (that woman and I) away to have sex at a hotel. We had very good sex. My wife went to another Monday Night game with me and came out of the bathroom telling me she had picture messaged naked pictures of herself to one of the guys she was talking to. I was irate, but could say nothing in response. I was still trapped by her.. I was beginning to realize that she was using my love for her against me. My dad told me a long time ago that "whoever loves most, has the least power in a relationship." That never made sense to me until now. At this point, I started having a horrible recurring nightmare. My dad was driving an old pick-up truck and I had my two youngest daughters in the back with me. My middle daughter tumbled out and was run over by the car behind us despite my attempts of holding on to her right in front of me. This was a weird dream. When I was young, my dad was driving a car and my middle brother was killed in a horrible car accident. My dad always blamed himself, he thought it was payment by God for infidelity to my mom. So, I began to wonder if subconsciously I felt guilty for seeing this other woman my wife had set me up with. After having that nightmare a few more times, my depression and emotional state was really bottoming out here and I became suicidal. I knew I needed help and sought a therapist. I found one and she referred me to a psychologist who put me on Wellbutrin. I continued to see both for some time. The therapist interviewed my wife and I, and my wife told her flatly she did not want to work on my relationship, I told her that I did, she was the air I breathed. Through the duration of this whole thing my wife would have sex with me once every three or so weeks, but stopped wearing her ring and withheld all affection to prove to me that "she wasn't happy." The last time my wife saw the guy that she bought the laptop for, she was in his bathroom texting another guy when he caught her. She began to see the guy she was texting. He was going to a very good school for politics and lived 30 miles away. She would refuse to drive anywhere for me, but drove to see him every night, and put the gas on my credit card. About this time, I came home from work to find my youngest daughter crying and holding her arm. I asked my oldest daughter what happened. She said she didn't know, she said it "tickled".. she had fallen a short distance off the couch. So, I took her to the hospital, and it was a fracture. I started really thinking about everything that was going on and how to resopnd to this. My wife didn't have a job but was out having sex and leaving my oldest daughter (who is 16 - so she is old enough) to watch the other two.. I realized my options were to 1) Kick her out, and 2) to leave. I felt the kids would be exposed if I left, and she had no place to go if I kicked her out, so that left me trapped. This was about the point my wife stopped sleeping in the bed.. She wanted a "physical separation". Our family vacation was coming up and she announced she would not be going. I took her out for dinner before we left, which was Valentine's day. The whole dinner, she had a text conversation with the guy she was seeing. I took her to a movie and she spent the first 40 minutes of the movie talking to him in the lobby on the phone. She started telling him that she loved him and wanted our children to call him dad. She actually told him that she would stay home from the family vacation if he would see her. At this point, I drove my kids 1200 miles to our family vacation where I met up with my dad and stepmom and explained to them that my wife wouldn't be there because she was "sick." I believe this was a pivotal point in our relationship. While I was on vacation, I was texting my "girlfriend" daily. She would text me good morning, and I would text her back, etc.. We talked every couple of nights, etc.. The kids and I had a good vacation and I drove them all the way home. My wife called me on vacation to yell at me for buying valentines day flowers for my girlfriend. (Remember, girlfriend and wife were friends and talked..) I promptly reminded my wife I bought her some, too, and took her out.. My wife said that I shouldn't buy anything for my girlfriend, or she will leave me. I told my wife to "f**** ***".. She saw a guy between these two, and came home from a date. We had sex that night and she told me she couldn't feel it, she had 19 orgasms earlier and was spent. I was dumbounded and went to bed. About this time, my dad called me and told me he needed to speak with me. He told me he had seen my wife's online profile where she said she was "divorced, starting over, but her husband was understanding" and there were posts from these men that have had or wanted to have sex with her. I had known about the site, but told my dad I had no knowledge of it, but would look into it. When I told my wife about it, she got upset at ME and said I should have defended her. This guy was beginning to grow tired of my wife and started to not return calls, etc.. So, she moved on to the next guy. I liked some music she would never entertain listening to. He liked this music and she immediately went out and bought the cd's (yes, my credit card).. They hung out, went to concerts, spent weekends together, etc.. She also started looking for a job so she could move out. Remember she has no experience, job history, diploma, etc.. That was why I couldn't kick her out earlier. Her relationship with this guy started to fizzle after much sex and weekends together.. While they were out, she met another guy who's number she got. She called the next guy and they went out. She had unprotected sex with him on the first date. (Through the guys she had 2 or 3 pregnancy scares..) I started seeing my "girlfriend" every other weekend. I would stay friday night, come home saturday, and go back saturday night. We got pretty tight and started to learn each others likes / dislikes. She started telling people (like my mom) that my girlfriend was a homewrecker and I was doing all of this stuff. I told my mom that no matter what happens, my wife will be in my future because of the kids, and for that reason, I will not tell her what has happened. She got a job and an apartment. As she was preparing to move out, she said she just wanted to do this for a while.. (like she was looking for autonomy..) She said she would probably realize she wasn't happy and would move back in. I was thinking to myself that this was an opportunity. I couldn't move out because of the kids nor kick her out because of her job. But.. if she moved out... that's different... I spent about 3k on furniture and moving her and an additional 1k-1500 on her bills for the next two months. She came home and said she realized she loves me and wants to move back in. I said no. She texted me that she thinks we should have a baby. I didn't even respond. To me, this appeared to be survival instincts.. SHe's tried to have sex with me several times, but I've turned her down. A few monday's ago, we went to a monday night game.. She drank so much so fast, she got sick and was done. She was crying that she wanted me back. I took her to her apartment cleaned her up, put her down, and left. My girlfriend brought her kids over on Saturday and dropped them off while she visited my wife at work. They went back to her place. Then my girlfriend came back and told the kids they were going to the Apple Orchard the next day. My kids wanted to go. In the morning, I called my wife to inform her. SHe was furious and said a bunch of bad things, but my middle daughter who was spending the night with her wanted to go. So, I came to pick her up, and she was crying she didn't want to go. (I think my wife made her feel bad about it.) I told her she didn't have to go. My wife threw her out of the apartment. My daughter scrambled to get back in and my wife was closing the door (with her knuckles in the doorway), so I pulled her out to avoid that from happening. We were in the hallway of her apartment when she opened the door and walked through to her car. She called me on the cell and said, "this will be the last time I talk to anybody. Let me talk to our daughter." I told her she had already done enough damage to her and could not talk to her. Finally, I gave the phone to my daughter and walked her to my wife's car (I could see her calling from her car). I opened her car and told her we weren't going anywhere. Let's all go back to the apartment. In the apartment she created a huge mixed drink. I could see within a few drinks her eyes were glassy and lips were really red. I found a completely empty bottle of liquid vicodin in the trash. I asked her if she had put that in the drink. She said yes. I grabbed it all and poured it down the trash. The following Saturday, she came by so I could help her cash her check (I told you she has no experience here).. She said she was still contemplating suicide.. And had noticed many places on the highway missing a guard rail. The following Sunday, I had an extra ticket and took her to the game. She gave her phone number to the man 8 rows in front of me. I got up and walked out. In the car, she told me that it was just to prove to me that I was jealous which meant I loved her. I assured her it was anger. Earlier I had thought her mention of suicide was an attempt to control me and force me to let her back in. So, I told her to do it. Kill us both. She said I must not love the kids. I said no, I do, very much. You do not. I felt a lot of emotions. Horrible emotions.. horrible anger. We wound up having very bad sex. She said it was very good.. but not where my mind was at - it was very bad. I spent the time wondering how many times she had done this, how many times she had said that, etc.. I got back out to my car with my youngest daughter and there was a message from my girlfriend inviting us out for ice cream. It was kind of late, but I really felt I deserved it after this day. SO, I went. My wife called 20 times. Finally I answered and told her where I was. When I came home she was in my house. She called my girlfriend and said a bunch of nasty things to her and told her to back away from me and stay away. The following day their conversation got worse and worse things were said. I'm having a new dream now.. I'm dreaming that I'm at some kind of pageant at the gym (our church's gym) for my middle daughter. Each parent has a paragraph to read about their kid. My wife is not setting with me. They go through all of the kids and are about to come to mine, but then the seats are all rearranged and I dont see mine, nor do I see my wife. And my shirt is gone. I find my shirt and put it one to be surprised that I wore a dirty tshirt to the church gym. Then, I wind up in the church pulling a submerged cross out of water. To me, this means, I'm afraid leaving my wife and hooking up with somebody that has kids will cause my children to miss out on the things they should have. I went back to the psychologist and got back on Wellbutrin. Additionally, I told my girlfriend, I cant talk to her for a bit, I need "clarity". I told my wife the same thing, but she is trying to force herself on me. She pleaded for sex tonight. I said no and sent her home. I'm trying to keep my distance from them just for clarity right now. I know my store probably doesn't read good. I'm not doing well. I'm exhausted. I cant think. I'm depressed. I'm beginning to realize this obtrocious behavior has called me to be stunned and dazed through all of 2006. I dont know what I want. I dont know why I'm holding on. I dont know anything else. I feel some responsibility for the early 3-some fantasies, although we agreed to not do those and she didn't involve me in her tirade. I feel guilty for taking on a girlfriend even though I pleaded with her to not make me do this.. I'm broke, paying bills for two households.. It would be so much easier to allow her to come back and help pay bills.. I'm not sure I will ever be the same. I'm quite sure I will never be the same. It appears all trust has been violated and could never be rebuilt. I know this probably reads cut and dry to most people, but keep in mind, this is my first relationship and it has been great until this year. I've seen great advice out there, and would like to know what anybody thinks about this. Thanks in Advance. btw - I'm sure I left chunks out, ask questions if something doesn't make sense..