NighttimeNightmare

I think people attract a myriad of different people. I’d say “we are who we let in.” as an example, one of my ex gfs is a really fit and attractive personal trainer. I’d say she’s pretty high caliber, but a portion of the men she attracts consists of people who are not. Because unfit, unhealthy, people who refuse to take care of themselves still like to look at nice things. People are going to “shoot their shot” to whoever they find pleasurable to look at, and it’s not really saying anything about the person they are hitting on because people constantly have crushes and chase fantasies regarding people who are “out of their league” someone can have a bunch of people at their gate trying to get in - successful people, poor people, healthy people, traumatized people, compatible people, incompatible people, etc etc. But it’s who they open that gate to and let in that is very telling of where they are at mentally and emotionally

True, but that’s what nearly everyone who makes a post here is doing. this is why I was asking him on page 1 why he is so caught up in chasing someone who he has had very minimal contact with. A stranger. Why is he so interested in someone who avoids him and seems wholly uncomfortable around him? For me, I need to know someone to know whether or not I like them. But back to the point - Him saying she seems awkward etc is also him relaying info filtered through his lens. Whatever mannerisms she has around him could be due to a myriad of different emotions. At the end of the day none of us know what’s in her head, only she knows that. Human behavior, while I do think it can be studied and categorized into larger group subsets, it’s also complex. I think his best bet is to look inward at his own motivations and pursue someone who doesn’t make him guess at where she stands or what her interest level is. That way the engagement between him and the other person becomes fact-based

I would normally tend to agree, but in this particular situation from what he’s describing, she’s a sheltered religious teenager when I was younger I was heavily involved in the Christian church because my parents set it up that way. It was like the complete removal of proper human interaction, all with good intention, but I remember looking back at that as an adult and realizing that neither myself nor my religious peers knew how to address emotions, feelings, social interactions, the opposite gender, etc. It was like the outside world was wrong, and everyone seemed to be taught to just “ask god” what to do, instead of consulting with self and understanding how to navigate life properly. It certainly created some sort of strange emotional isolation in people: sex wrong. Girls wrong. God good. Etc etc if this girl is being raised in that same type of environment, she could be feeling incredibly guilty about any sort of feelings she has towards OP. And furthermore, she may not have the tools to deal with those feelings or make sense of what’s going on inside of her. So, she hides away, dodges him, etc. I’ve seen this sort of behavior over and over in really sheltered folk. so, it’s possible she is into him. It’s also super possible she isn’t. But at the end of the day, I said this in my previous response, the reason why she’s behaving like this doesn’t much matter because someone who is being dodgy in this way clearly doesn’t possess the skills to hold up their end of a functioning relationship, which is what OP says he wants.

I’d just be careful not to create a fantasy of what she could be to you all of the reasons you listed as to why you like her are on-paper traits, traits that many other people also possess. But the reality of her interactions concerning you and her doesn’t look good. She’s being dodgy - for whatever reason (shyness, nerves, lack of interest, lack of experience, etc) That’s the reality you have to work with. so sure, she has traits you like on paper, but that doesn’t translate into her being able or willing to have an actual experience with you personally. Inventing “if onlys” isn’t going to really do any good

Hmm well I suppose in reading this again, I’m left wondering why you have a crush on someone you’ve shared a few conversations with, but who otherwise appears extremely uncomfortable around you, and even goes out of her way to avoid you? I guess I don’t understand how someone could “like” someone who is behaving in these ways towards them? is it the chase you enjoy? Or you think she’s physically attractive and want to sleep with her…. What is it because it doesn’t seem you two really know one another so I’m confused. but with that said, you mention she’s 19 and has never been in a relationship so her behavior could just be nerves caused by unfamiliarity — if that’s the case I’m unsure how she’d be able to function and navigate a healthy relationship with anyone if she’s already reacting like this.

Inquiring minds would like to know what this consisted of…

This is 100% my own belief system and experience in life; actually, your thread was in part what prompted me to post this question. It seemed you want reality to unfold as it will… whatever that means. It’s the same in my own life. And I found that at odds with the responses people tend to give about how there’s no way someone in this situation is “a real friend.” I was recently with a friend the other evening, first time seeing her in awhile, and the chemistry/good vibe was immediately present and natural, as it always is when we are together. I never in my wildest dreams thought I’d develop feelings for this person, but I have. i didn’t meet her with an agenda, and I still don’t have an agenda, these feelings naturally occurred over the span of almost a year. Things are just easy with her, so I’m more likely to devote my time to her over others, but never once has there been motive attached to that: I never thought, “hmm if I do xyz I’ll be able to get with her!” I’ve never been waiting in the wings, that feels gross. … but yet it’s almost this assumption society makes, and a canned response that they give. But I think it is possible to have feelings and maintain a genuine friendship. My goal in friendships is never to steer anyone a certain way, but to help encourage them to be their most authentic selves. And I do the same with this friend whom I caught feelings for. She can pursue whoever she wants and I’ll encourage it because that’s her most authentic self, the self we all should be striving for in our own lives. I just never understood how someone could want to force someone or manipulate someone into being with them. If you’re really a friend you will support your friend in what they choose to do and who they choose to be with I can understand how it might sting a bit to watch them form a life with someone else, but you’d accept reality for what it is and be happy that they are happy

Exactly. If the friendship was genuine then you’d want the best for that person even if it meant it wasn’t with you (who had the feelings) anything less than that is selfish, and to be genuine in your care for someone you’d have to want the best for them, and you would be happy to see them thriving, whatever that meant for them. I think the problem is most people “love” in a very selfish way. So when they say they “have feelings” or a “crush,” or are “in love” - whatever their term of choice may be - what they tend to mean is, “I want you at all cost, to fulfill my desires and what I want you to be for me.” meh, that’s the opposite of love IMHO. It’s not the way a genuine friend, short of motives, would operate.

See but this is what is weird to me how are people jumping from “I have feelings” to “therefore I can’t be genuine”??? As I said in the OP: I can grasp how if having feelings means the person ends up waiting in the wings, or holds ulterior motives.. then it isn’t genuine, sure. That I do agree with and I’m certain there are people out there who do things like this. In fact, I’d wager a bet that most people do things like this. I know I wouldn’t consider someone a friend if she began trying to get with me. but not everyone who catches feelings waits in the wings, or has some sort of manipulative agenda they begin to participate in. so I think in some cases you can have feelings and be a genuine friend. I’m not grasping how it’s automatically no longer genuine

There’s nothing wrong with comparing if you do it in a realistic way. for example, you don’t want to be with a partner who bores you, and you feel you’ve got no chemistry with. So you can say, “I know from my connection with xyz, I want someone who is easy to talk to and who I feel connected in that way with.” That’s perfectly healthy, and you learn about yourself and your needs that way. what would be unhelpful would be if you were to think there’s no one else out there who you can connect with and close yourself off from being opened to someone fitting into that mold that works for you (which it doesn’t sound like you’re doing, so you’re good). There are other people who you’ll connect with eventually, just don’t settle. Try to find stability and a place of being content with your own company. Mutual connections and chemistry don’t come easy, as you’re realizing, but if you can find stability in solitude then the interim between now and when you find that person is a lot easier to swallow.

Why is this a common saying? “If you have feelings for someone, then you aren’t their friend.” What? What do people typically mean when they say that? are they assuming the person with feelings is waiting in the wings for their chance, as opposed to being genuine? Are they assuming the persons ‘crush/obsession’ came first and then they tried to push for a connection under the guise of “friendship” to the unsuspecting party? Because in those two cases, I would agree that isn’t being a true friend. However, if that’s not what people mean, then I don’t understand. It’s very possible to have an authentic friendship with someone and then over time feelings develop while maintaining being a decent and genuine person. Do people think the friendship is lost once there are feelings?

It’s possible what she does with her friends is routine and something that she can manage with her current schedule, but she doesn’t have the quota to add another person and additional hangouts into the mix until the exams are over so ya, I’d see if she brings up your get together after the exams and if not then you have your answer

Yup, not surprised This was exactly my thoughts when reading the thread. Had you been someone who said you feel a connection with everyone you meet and are constantly pursuing different women, I’d have felt differently. But I immediately recognized myself and my experiences in the way you were trying to convey what was going on. For instance, I can count on one hand the amount of times I felt “connected” to someone, and each time it’s this sort of non-verbal intertwining that is experienced by the two people involved. Nearly impossible to convey it to people on the outside esp if they’ve not had those types of connections. I think these sorts of message boards are helpful in aiding the poster to work through their thoughts, but I don’t think anyone can really know what’s going on in someone else’s head. We can only do what’s best for us in response to annother’s actions. But you know what you feel with someone in person. Someone like you does, anyway. This same thing recently happened with me actually. It was with a much older woman and I kept feeling nuts because she’s probably only the 4th or 5th person in my life I felt magnetized towards. Everyone who sees us thinks she’s into me, they’re all able to see the pull that I feel towards her, I’m certain she feels it too. But I don’t think she’d say yes if I asked her out. But that pull is so palpable. Difficult to describe on a msg board anyway, glad the two of you will be hanging out. These connections should be pursued IMO.

Naw, don’t do that to yourself. Im chiming in as someone else who operates in these same ways you and rainbow were discussing: I very rarely “vibe” with people on that level, but when it happens it’s always shared. It’s never one-sided, that type of vibe takes two equal energies magnetizing towards eachother. It’s not in your head, it’s a shared experience. You’ve had this experience with others, and you experienced it now again, you trust yourself to know what that feels like. The thing is, just because you’ve got a connection it doesn’t mean the person wants to date. And there can be a myriad of reasons for that. So if she doesn’t want to date, it doesn’t mean there wasn’t a connection, or your senses were wrong, etc. I have had about 3-4 women in my life who I had this with. It always turned into a relationship, or attempted to, every single time. I remember when I first met one of them, she was partnered but there was constantly this strong magnetic feel I had towards her whenever we were together. It wasn’t crazy stalkerish one-sided feelings that people talk about in their pursuit of their crush, instead it was like two people being pulled towards one another at their core, it almost feels ‘spiritual’. I always thought it was strange I felt that towards her, because she was in a relationship, but whenever I was around her the “pull” started. I ignored it. However, once her relationship ended she invited me to dinner and asked what I thought about her and I being a couple. That’s when I knew, that consistently, whenever I felt that feeling, it was always a shared thing and that’s probably the case for you, too. You know. Anyway, when she asked me out, I essentially declined, and it’s something I regret to this day. It wasn’t because I didn’t like her, or I didn’t feel that, it was because I was an emotionally abusive mess. I never explained that to her and she likely thought she was wrong about that pull she felt between us, she wasn’t You take the time to seek out valuable connections that are real and shared and I wouldn’t discredit what you know simply because she might not want to date you. Those two things are separate: you can have a connection/like someone but not want to date them.

Lol she’s a mess. A random woman doing this sh*t to a random man. She’s lucky you didn’t assault her. This isn’t a story of her liking you and choosing you to behave this way with because you’re special. On the contrary, it’s a story of a woman who has 0 regard for her own safety. … and people who behave like this jump from person to person. One wild reckless night after the other. Move on

For work or because he met you?

Disgusting, trash people.

He doesn’t. That’s why he said, “let me know if it works for you”

I agree with this. I can say, as a guy in my 30s, now adays it seems way too risky to make a move on your friend, or a woman in general. So I don’t agree with your mom that he “would have stepped up by now.” I was just in this same situation where I developed feelings for a friend, I never ended up asking her out for multiple reasons but a major one was I didn’t want to be “that guy” who couldn’t “just be friends” with a woman. (Even though I have several close platonic female friends). I don’t know what this new energy is regarding all of that but it’s almost like if you’re a guy and you misinterpret something you’re seen as a predator. So it’s just easier for decent dudes to err on the side of caution and never say anything. I had a convo with some guys recently about this and they all said they appreciate when the woman steps up because of this

Right, but the key there is “someone you like.” They’ve known each other for 3 years and haven’t been out etc so she very likely doesn’t share in his crush. That doesn’t mean he can’t win her over during a date and making his interest known you guys are sort of acting like because she isn’t all giddy it’s all over for him. Of course she isn’t giddy and overly enthusiastic, she probably doesn’t see him that way. There’s definitely people in my life I’ve never been super enthusiastic about but over time of getting to know them my opinion has changed. It’s a possibility for him, but as I said, I personally think he should either (a) move on or (b) be incredibly direct about his intentions once she’s in his city working. Move it from an online thing to an in person thing. it’s been 3 years already. Sh*t or get off the pot

It’s all hard to say. You’re the one in direct contact with her so no one can with 100% accuracy guide what you “should say” or not for instance, if someone texted me “nice you can text me if you have time next week,” I’d likely feel like they weren’t interested in talking to me really. Like “don’t rly want to talk now but you can have the burden of hitting me up next week ‘if you want’”. It’s a weird thing to say. But maybe in the context of your text with her it wasn’t? I tend to agree with @Wiseman2s comments here. Why not have just talked and kept in touch then asked her our once she got to your city and was settled in with work? I mean, she didn’t say “no.” I personally don’t think she’s too terribly interested in you and it’s prob because the convos lack any sort of chemistry. You should date people who you have a stimulating connection with. You say you’ve been crushing on her for 3 years. How so? The idea of her? Because it seems the reality you have with her is actually very bland. How haven’t you built up any sort of a rapport in 3 years? Maybe time to move on and find a girl you’ve got chemistry with

I feel for him. Being a business owner and losing that and everything else on top of it is emotionally devastating. It’s a super common topic in the small business/entrepreneurial world. and with him obtaining debt from a failed relationship, and losing his financial nest, jeeze, that’s so difficult to find the strength to pick up and carry on. If your stability can be wiped away that easily, how do you get in the mental space to recreate what was supposed to be safe and untouchable? I say this as someone who went through this as well. Had a really really bad breakup, she depleted me financially, stole from me, I lost an investment property. Etc etc. It was TOUGH moving on from it and being able to see straight now with that said, none of this means you need to becomes his caretaker and/or not put up boundaries. You don’t want to be his caretaker, you want an equally contributing partner. That’s ok. Maybe he can’t be that for you right now. Maybe the two of you leave the door opened to reconnecting in the future when he rebuilds? is he doing anything mental-health wise to heal from what happened to him? I got stuck in a rut for like 3 years. But I didn’t date during any of it, to be clear.

… so you can disappear but she can’t? She mentioned she wasn’t ready for a relationship anyhow. But I wouldn’t be shocked if she pops back up. If she does, I’d just go with the flow and treat her like a casual acquaintance. However, if you enjoy the convo with her and want more, take the chance and ask her out since it seems that’s what you were after anyhow: romance as opposed to a casual friendship. No use playing text tag if that’s the case

That’d be the end of it for me. No more talking to the person, talking about the person trying to decode ***. Just done. Goodbye!

That’s good, the fact you posted here shows you’re at least opened to help and feedback. find a professional who specializes in actually treating your issues/core wounds, not just years and years of talk therapy. Not sure what your issues exactly are, but EMDR, CBT, and/or DBT may be things to look into. You need tools to be able to note and properly define your feelings, and then a proper place to put the thoughts and emotions - in a healthy way. And those types of therapy will help you build those foundational blocks up in yourself in other words: don’t think that just wanting to do and be better is enough, it isn’t, you’ll revert right back to the name calling and accusations when you’re triggered again. Actually see a qualified professional and stick with the journey In therapy when you rebuild yourself a healthy foundation, what someone else may do to you becomes less and less scary. You don’t have the necessary building blocks needed to trust yourself so you have resorted to controlling your environment, which is your wife, by accusing her and devoting your time to trying to catch her in something. It’s a false sense of safety and control, and she becomes a victim of your issues when you learn to see clearly and trust yourself, you know you have the tools and emotional resources to deal with someone cheating on you if it should happen. If there are actual signs of cheating, you have the skillset learned in therapy to talk in an opened and healthy way with your partner, instead of “jokingly” trying to seek answers to confirm your suspicions look, people cheat. Lots of people cheat. You’ve been with your wife for 20 years. Has there been anything she’s done that you can actually say is incriminating? Cold hard facts, not just your fear making up stories. even if you can say “yes” to that, it doesn’t give your behavior a pass. There are stable and healthy ways to deal with may be betraying you which doesn’t include staying with them for 20 years, having kids, and accusing them every time they leave the house so either way, you’ve got options and a lot of work to do