sarsapolis6

Without giving the actual name of places, or names of restaurants or locales, (because I know for many people including myself it is an issue of privacy) would you mind sharing stories of successful dates, or at least share what a typical great date might be like for you from start (when he/she meets you) to finish? I haven't been dating in a while and I don't know whether to start at a cafe, then move on to a park, and then move on to a restaurant or public plaza where her and I can intimately talk or kiss..depending on how the date goes.

Being myself is not a problem. What I'm looking for are specific mistakes.. a list of errors that guys can make while flirting with a girl, which can lead to two unwanted results: The girl will keep him as a only a friend for as long as they know each other or scare her away from him. Most guys want to avoid those results when they flirt.

guys make when they're flirting with a girl? Their mistakes keep them "friendzoned" instead of being the boyfriend of the women they're interested in. One thing to note: Friendzoned guys aren't completely clueless.. they compliment or playfully tease the girls they're interested in, just like the men who are potential boyfriends.

Thanks helo, but I'm not interested in seducing the ladies. Not yet! I want to present myself in a way that communicates "he's not a threat, he's not a creep" while at the same time NOT communicating "he's a nice guy but he's a chump". Yes, I will read those links and I like So link removed but I believe that will happen once everyone becomes comfortable around each other. If I were to start flirting with a girl, then she'll assume that's the main reason why I came to the social event..to FLIRT WITH GIRLS. I can do that at a bar or a dance club.

environment where there is nothing BUT women. The uncomfortable feeling comes from not knowing what to say. I don't want them to think I'm a creep, so I have to say SOMETHING and I have to talk constantly. What conversation starters are good for guys who have stagefright (or if there's a better word to describe it) when they are admist a huge number of females? I'll introduce myself, tell them what city I live in, what occupation I have, wheter or not I've taken this dance class before, mention other dance classes that I've participated in. But beyond that it's an Undiscovered Country. Lord knows I don't want to be "that creepy guy."

allay those fears when he talks to her? Not really convince or persuade, but at least he can tell from his perspective that not all experiences can turn out to be bad ones. There is a girl I know right now..she mentioned a bad experience to me about how a guy lost complete interest in her. She kept wondering "WHY did he quit talking to me? WHY WHY WHY?" At the time I didn't know how to console her on this issue.

hello again..I have two extra questions before I completely call it quits on this topic. I haven't made my MOVE yet, but I am wondering what a man can do to capture a woman's heart amidst increasing competition from other men? The reason I asked is because I've now received word that my lady friend has been talking to a guy from her former badminton team. She hasn't said "we're dating now." or "I think he's the one" or "I just love being around him..he's so..so..etc". Even though she hasn't told me this, the warning signals are still there. Sometimes I think when women inform me of situations like these they are hinting to me that I need to step up or lose out on a great opportunity to be with her. How often is this true? She mentioned the badminton guy before during a conversation..he was a "crazy guy" and so I asked what made him crazy and she kinda dismissed the issue. I'm a competitive person at heart so I asked my lady friend if I could join up for a game of badminton with her group. In her own quirky way she said that she doesn't like to mix up her friends with other friends which is kinda odd. I asked her if there would be any conflict between me and the guy. She said no. I didn't press the issue anymore so I backed off. Spending time with her on Sunday doesn't work..but I have other ideas for hanging out with her on a routine basis: Teaching her how to play tennis on Saturday. Walking/jogging with her around the Lake during the weekend mornings. Poetry night on Wednesdays. We're going dancing this Sunday but it's not going to be an ongoing thing..unless things begin to develop between us. Finally, because she likes to walk and listen to her CD player I was thinking of getting her a gift certificate for the Apple Store or directly buying the ipod shuffle for her. I believe in giving someone functional gifts instead of showering her with flowers and chocolates..I simply can't do that yet.

I have a final question.. Should men really sit down and talk to their female friends about changing their friendship to a romantic relationship? For example, during a dinner before they go out to a dance a man and a woman discuss their feelings. She says that she likes him alot, but unfortunately she doesn't want a relationship after he's told her about how much she's a lovely woman and he wants to appreciate her beauty, intelligence and personality more. The bad part about The Talk is that it becomes too formal and once the Talk is over, that's IT. A Heads or Tails situation, whereas in the so-called real world a man flirts and flirts with one of his female friends until one day they make out and a few weeks later they are both in love with each other. That's why it might be ideal to talk about dating, love, relationship topics during dinner but not directly declaring "I want to be with you." People have said that you will know when someone is into you by the way they touch you..and that's especially during a dance.

Besides telling her "you're a lovely woman and I really like you", I need to find out when it is appropriate to touch her in a more romantic way, because this is the barrier between friends/lovers. I've hugged her and I've put my hands on her shoulders but nothing else romantic. Today I went out with her to the movies after she practiced badminton. While we sat next to each other, there were moments when she played with her hair during the movie and angled herself in a way that made me wonder "is she giving me a sign to put my arm around her?" I didn't do it, though. Also she kept her hands close to her and not on the arm rest so there was no way I could gently clasp my hand in hers romantically. I really wanted to do something because part of me felt that she was giving me an unspoken permission to put my arm around her. One thing I did do was whisper in her ear about certain things related to the movie, and angled myself closer to her. Nothing happened. After the movies she walked beside me and carried her CD player in her hand, and her racket in the other. Maybe I should've offered to carry her racket in one hand and gently clasped her other hand.

People have told me that this transition is quite common, but they rarely tell you how a man can really set things into motion. There is a lovely lady who has been my friend for 4 years and we often go on movie dates but sometimes we'll do something different. She recently has an apartment and I haven't been there yet but I will try to find a way over there (offering her a ride home tomorrow!) because she has already been over at my place during a big birthday party I held for myself. This year, she has really, really blossomed and the old feelings of wanting her as an actual girlfriend have re-surfaced. Sunday is my go-for-broke day, and I have some ideas which have worked in the past with another girl I dated. Gently clasping her hand, kissing it once and then continue to hold her hand as we're walking around a park. However I am still stuck on what exactly to say to her that might lead to a make-out session. I've given her compliments here and there,(not too much) and I have touched her on the shoulders. Haven't held her hand yet but once I do maybe she'll get part of the message that I'm really interested in her. So when it's time..do you guys focus the conversation on relationships, sex, without directly mentioning "I want to take our friendship to a whole new level." Or, do you casually talk about everyday stuff while holding her hand, snuggling up to her, holding her close while talking in a park, putting her hands on her shoulders while waiting in line, gently wrapping your arm around her at the movies? Thanks for your advice..I want to express my feelings towards her..in the right way.

Batya, I am like you..I want to use humor as a way to connect to other INDIVIDUALS and entertain them, but not in the same way as a stand up comedian. The people that I see at work and school ARE NOT THE STANDUP COMEDIAN TYPES. Whenever they say something funny it's not "once there was these two guys who.." or "Didja, didja ever notice that.." It's quite possible for me to connect with other individuals and I might not even say anything that's funny. Most of the time I am all business when I talk, but in certain social situations that can only get me so far. Work is a social environment where I usually ask the get-to-know you questions or engage in a conversation about someone's interest. (one co-worker is a scuba diver and I asked him what are the best times to go scuba diving in Monterey) Now there are people who might have the same type of conversational style..except that they might find add a humorous statement or make a humorous observation that could have the scuba diver guy and him laughing. That's OK if I don't necessarily make my co-workers laugh during a conversation..but if I'm at a party or in a new social environment, I feel compelled to say something humorous (or light-hearted) that communicates to the others that I'm a friendly stranger. And that's what I meant by "thawing the ice". Doesn't anyone realize that when people first meet each other, the whole group is standoffish? I've seen it plenty of times and it doesn't matter if it's primarily girls or guys in the group..people regardless of sex are self-protective of themselves when they first meet. But then like clockwork, there is a guy/gal who talks the most, to people in the class. And occasionally that person will make a funny comment in the midst of a conversation with a classmate or in response to a teacher's question. Eventually there will a girl or guy who gravitates to this person..maybe even some of the class members. This indeed has happened in my tech class.. one guy has used his nice personality and excellent humor skills to connect on a positive level with the other classmates. But I am not so lucky. This also happened at a work environment during highschool, where the girls outnumbered the guys 2 to 1. The few guys there made a very VERY positive impression with the girls there to the point where one guy started dating one of the girls (temporarily) ..and another guy had no problem at all inviting everyone to his birthday party. It's no surprise that they were excellent at humorous flirting. I on the other hand did not attempt to "join the bandwagon" and act like those guys because I was really absorbed in my work. However, I hardly did anything to show everyone that I was also a friendly guy to connect with. I don't remember times during lunch break when I would tell a funny story with my co-workers.

My purposes for using humor is entertain people and also thaw the ice that people have around themselves, including MYSELF. There are several people that I've known in the years that serve as role models for developing good feelings between themselves and others. One guy in middle school was bi-racial but he used humor to gain acceptance from people from both of his cultures. I have a co-worker who is fun to be around with during break time because his conversation usually contains a comment that could have all of us laughing. At a workshop in NY, there were people of different races and at first no one liked each other. But after a few weeks this one guy broke down the barriers (or thawed the ice) between us with his humor and before long the group (mostly girls) would literally follow him throughout the city whenever we partied. All of these guys are examples of people who use their good-natured skills to get somewhere in life, because I know that sometimes, making people laugh can go a long way. None of these people were sarcastic, HOWEVER they had the skills to lightly tease someone without going overboard.

OK, so I will avoid sarcasm, and I clearly understand what's inappropriate but the root of my question remains..what conversation topics are generally humorous to a wide range of people? Surely there have been times when you have mentioned a funny story several times to different people in our (predominately Western) culture, and they were completely cracking up. For example, something about pets. When I was little our backyard used to be a hangout for cats because there were plenty of weed bushes for them to catnap, make whoopee and fight over territory. A few years went by and we brought a dog from the local pound, a labrador who was so laidback, that I almost fell asleep just looking at him. But my parents bought him anyways because he was the only labrador available. So we arrived back home, and I set him loose in the yard, thinking that he was gonna crawl under a tree and sleep..lazy dog. Would you believe that he kept running around the yard in a huge circle for about an HOUR? NON-STOP. I tried to yell at him, even got in his way, but he would bound a little to the right and kept on going like the Energizer Bunny. It was the smell of cats that made him temporarily stupid.

Ok, thanks Batya..you mentioned humorous stories. Well what kind of stories are generally humorous and non-offensive for a wide range of people? Maybe the comment about a boss was inappropriate, however I'm basing it off of what someone else told me. That person knows that I'm not in a position of employment power so he didn't have to worry about not relating to me since we are both in the "peon" category. However you're correct that anyone else I'm meeting might be a supervisor him/herself. I also believe that humor is a way to connect to people, but it is also 100% for entertainment purposes as well! I understand that in most social groups, the talk going on is not always serious talk. I was in a board meeting and the speaker lightened the mood by talking about how much he sucked at snowboarding..had us laughing. As for sarcasm, I went to a typical myspace profile photo gallery and there was this one picture where all of the person's friends were making friendly, sarcastic remarks about the picture. You're correct that sarcasm is appropriate for people who've known each other for a while. HOWEVER, in the beginning stages of guy-girl flirting, isn't teasing a requirement? Not to put too much into this, but I've seen real life examples where the guy says something to a girl he doesn't know to well (at a party) and she's laughing while she playfully slaps at him or tells him "shut up, you!". I can't underestimate the value of pushing someone's buttons in a light-hearted, humorous way. I know that I don't tease/flirt too often..what I might do most of the time is say something that's funny and it has nothing to do with the girl or person in question. Finally, email humor is strangely my forte..I could write something that's 10 times as funny as saying it in person. No problem there! Thanks Batya

And also, what humorous topics are usually mentioned in a conversation? Does anyone have examples? Here's what I have so far: - Making fun of the way my boss thinks at work, because sometimes the boss doesn't quite understand what's going on out in the field like we (me and the people working) do. I am smart enough not to mention his name or even talk about my boss while at work. - Something crazy that I read somewhere in a magazine or book or newspaper. In the latest Sports Illustrated, there was a tiny caption about how a professional basketball player signed a contract NOT with a pen, but with a pencil! - Last night I finally came back home to visit my parents and my brother and I have the same type of voice. So, I fooled them into thinking that it was my brother coming home. This is re-telling some practical joke I pulled on a person or a group of people. - Developing a non-offensive funny comment after observing an event or a person with other people. My co-worker is a pro at this. One time we were working together and we overheard an incredibly loud argument between two other guys (they were from a different trade) which lasted over 20 minutes. And it wasn't the kind of nice, gentlemanly debate you would expect from an office environment..these guys were creatively swearing at each other. I remember my co-worker saying that they reminded him of his last break-up and I thought that was funny. That's all that I can think of for now. I realize that what might be funny for some people isn't really funny for others, and I've learned that in a most frustrating way. I try to hang around with guys and gals who are into sports, parties, music & college activism and I might mention something humorous but it falls flat. Nothing like a riddle or a knock-knock joke of course. My biggest problem is that people show no reaction at all and I don't know what those reasons are. Maybe I'm not projecting my voice loud enough? To me, humor is important because it's a conversational skill that I have to step up or people will still think I'm a serious person who doesn't loosen up. Thanks and I look forward to your suggestions.

I seemed to lack the drive, insight and interest at a early age (as young as kindergarten years) to chase after girls because I liked them. I think my childhood has severely affected my dating life because I keep noticing that my track record for having relationships or having casual fun with girls is low compared to other guys in my city. I have a couple of reasons: -- I was raised as an only child, and I did not interact with family members who could serve as role models to how guys interact with girls because all of my cousins, uncles, aunts, were older and lived in another city. Whereas the other boys lived in households where the family was present all the time. -- My family hardly went to church whereas the other boys probably went to church every Sunday with their families, and so those boys got introduced to girls at an early age. -- Maybe my dad didn't spend enough time teaching me about girls. The only things I remember from my childhood bonding with pop is catching footballs, learning how to draw, and other son-pop things that didn't have anything to do with "preparing for the future". I don't believe I was instilled with the knowledge to "find a woman, have fun, and then one day get married to her when you're older". -- None of my friends (or associates) gave me a reason why they wore the nicest clothes, or bragged to everyone about the latest thing their older brother/cousin/relative bought for them. I wished that I had gotten a clue and realized that impressing girls -- I don't know why I didn't realize that my shyness and personality kept me from getting along with the girls..because I was quiet and did not play sports or chase after girls I was labeled as "weird" and it most definetly came from the girls. To this day I am slightly jealous when a guy tells me that "I've known Clara, or Sue, or Shirley, or "________" since we were kids!!" He's basically telling me that he didn't have to worry about being accepted by the girls at a very young age, which led to friendships or a relationship that lasts through the middle school years, during highschool and even in college. -- Maybe I should've bonded with male friends more, because in every group of pals you have one guy who doesn't have a clue about how to relate to women, but at least he's got buddies willing to help him out. It was frustrating actually writing this!

I can't believe this thought came to my head..but basically I have been envisioning what it would be like to date a girl that I've always had a crush on. But instead of daydreaming about it, how about if I simply write a realistic narrative? I am great at writing stories with character dialogue so maybe I could do it in a way that helps me get used to dating her..if that ever happens. I could also bring the various advice that I've seen or read and infuse it into the story (like for example applying listening skills during a conversation at a coffee shop)The story would be an eyes-only project so I could write it in YahooMail's Notepad, since hardly anyone I know checks my email system. Has anyone done something similar? Even though my idea sounds LOONY I believe this could work and it would make a lot more sense than daydreaming about me and her.

I just have to figure this out.. I took a sports class last year, met a woman who I liked and we talked during class and started to somewhat get to know each other when I suggested that we meet up for practice on another day outside of class. Then a couple of weeks later I asked her if we could meet at a music performance club, and she agreed but she had to go to a dinner party first. So I waited and waited, until she showed up on bus. She did not seem interested in going to the club yet she still showed up and didn't say over the phone: "maybe we should do this another time." Seeing that she wasn't too hot about going into the club, I decided to strike up conversations with her while we were going to a cafe. Primarily it was more of the "get-to-know-you" conversations mixed in with music and so on. But she just appeared to be totally bored. This has happened to me before and is my greatest fear whenever I talk to women..that I might bore them even though I talk with enthusiasm and I my subject is not all about me..or her. What usually happens is that I'm fishing for a conversation with someone, while other guys establish a strong back-and-forth dialogue with the women they're dating. What could I be doing wrong? What could make a woman bored of a man's conversation?

your girlfriend or (soon to be girlfriend)? First, do you leave it a surprise, or tell her straight up? This is my second Valentines present that I'm going to give her. What particular spices should I not leave home without?

What specific methods should a a naive, non-talkative and non-sociable person take that will allow him/her to grow into someone who will.. experience many things, meet and actually get along with various people throughout the state, nation, and the world, own many popular or unique items that other people might have, (and then make a conversation out of it based on their similar interests) travel to foreign lands and party along with a group of friends, get to know the best and worst places to eat in town, absorb so much knowledge that they're almost like a natural, human encyclopedia, and then share information (during a conversation) about a huge variety of topics that the person learned from other sources than the internet, entertain friends and strangers with significant stories, lightly boast about past successes and self-disclose (in a conversation) to others about the next achievements around the corner? HOW DO YOU GET TO THIS HIGHER LEVEL IN LIFE? Does it results from saving money? Expanding your own mental memory? Taking personal risks at the expense of your life and finances? Learning how to become a sociable, exciting person? (which is kinda hard to do) Listening to how other influencial people (such as your older siblings, cousins, or parents) communicate and then picking up on or adopting their style of successful speaking? My goal is to enrich my conversations with people in the near future because right now I'm not really saying much to people due to the fact that I don't know or have experienced enough things to provide enough fuel for a lengthy conversation. My boss, for example owns tools of various types and one day he had nearly a 45 minute, indepth talk with another guy about specialty tools. They amazed me with their wealth of knowledge and yet they were young like me.

I will be going out to dinner next week with a girl who loves to touch me subtlely, and its NOT to get my attention about something! Usually it's when I do something great while I'm working with her. I'm a part-time volunteer at her organization and I'm helping out with the flyers, brochure design, basically stuff that none of the staff can work on because they have so many other things to do. I work with her alot, and she's friendly, loves to speak her mind about things, and feels comfortable around me. In fact, I was surprised when she said "I'll walk you out" after our first meeting, and even more surprised when she wanted to walk with me to the busstop. And when I mean by touching, she doesn't put her hands all on me, but lightly taps me with her fingers. Anyways I do like it, but I don't reciprocate and I stay as professional as possible while showing my positive/almost funny side. Now she told me that we could celebrate (since next week will be my last week) at a Mexican restaurant. She initiated this, and to some guys they might think: "She's really digging me!" While others might think that it's her way of saying thanks. But I believe..that it's a mixture of both. Every night after our meetings, we're walking together and if we're not talking about the work, we're talking about something else. We do this even before the meetings. As soon as I get there, I'm ready to go, all business..and yet we don't exactly start because we're having a conversation about something fun. As for the dinner, I understand that it will be in a totally relaxed environment away from the job..a chance to really speak our minds, and (if its acceptable which I don't really know if it is) flirt with each other. I'll even wear my contacts on that day. Since I cannot touch her, I'll wait to see what develops. But as most people say, "the men have to do the work", so I was wondering how I could flirt with her in a way that doesn't turn her off. Thanks

We have different groups of guys who use different ways of attracting a girl's interest in them. There are others who have to speak to women in order to progress. But they do it wrong, using one-liners that either disrespect or turn-off women. Plus one-liners are childish anyway. I belong to the category of guys who have the confidence to speak to a woman, however their conversation remains on the platonic level because they simply don't know how to escalate things when the time is right. They don't know how to smooth talk, how to lower their voice, don't know how to ask the right questions that basically communicate: "You're so hot and I'd love to spend time with you in the near future". So, I'd like to get out of my innocence and learn some conversational tips from the "bad boys" who are able to flirt with the librarian assistant, their prudish classmate, the girls from the club, their friend's older sister, and so on. I am not talking about sexual innuedos, because I notice that my buddies stay away from that. They also stay away from those cheesy one-liners. Another example I learned: My co-worker and I daily have lunch at a diner. This older, attractive waitress always serves us whenever we're there. For days I did my usual "hello..I'd like to order.." conversation. My co-worker, who is the same age I am actually talked to her. Lite shop talk. Then one day she asked my co-worker if he was "so-and-so's son and that he looked just like him." My co-worker said "no. How old is he?" Waitress: "About your age." Co-worker: "Can't be. I look like I'm 25, but I'm actually 32." Waitress: (laughs) "Suuure you are." It was a funny moment, and a learning lesson in flirting because I figured that the waitress was in her low 30s (and so did my co-worker). He used age as an opportunity to play a game with her, which she enjoyed.

For this year I'm eager to learn how to improve my word games with the women that I'm interested in. Both of us (male and female) like to play hard to get. We use it not through our actions, like animals, but through our language. For example, the common one that alot of girls use (in any social environment from the club to the classroom) when guys like them is: "Yes, but..I have a boyfriend." Personally, for many years when a girl told me this I couldn't think of a decent comeback, a way to play her game. Then a buddy I was partying with gave this one girl an answer that all of us liked: "Well, how about a man-friend?" Excellent play on words, and it created the illusion that he was much, much more than her boyfriend. In our culture, who do we respect more, men or boys? The girl didn't walk away from my buddy, but she wasn't about to give up so easily. They both launched into a friendly, humorous debate about why or why not they should exchange numbers. She was giving him a dozen reasons why she shouldn't talk to him, while he was countering those reasons and They proceeded to the dancefloor and my friend gave me a triumphant look. After that night ended it was no surprise she had given him her number. I asked my buddy how he did it. His answer: "Well, I just talked to her." That's VAGUE!!! V.A.G.U.E!! Since childhood none of my male friends have been willing to share their own style of game or technique because for many of them it comes natural. But with me it's a different story.

How do you prevent yourself from talking vague and having a boring conversation with a girl while on the phone with her? I just called a girl on the phone and my conversation was a basic "how are you doing, what's going on lately" conversation and I found out that she still had school, and basically had to take care of a late assignment. She didn't sound enthusiastic about anything she said and I noticed that I was the one who asked questions about what was going on with her, instead of the usual times when I call her and she involuntarily gives me the whole scoop on what happened to her in the past few weeks, months, e.t.c. I like it when girls do that, but that's rare. So then it's left up to me to keep the conversation alive until she says "I have to go now, but it was nice talking to you". As for being vague on my part, I noticed that she was in a car about to be driven to someplace and I didn't ask where she was going because I didn't want to pry too much. Her attitude wasn't happy or sad..it was simply the way someone would act if he or she is talking to someone they had just met..and in reality we've known each other for 5 years. Also, I was vague because I asked her about her plans for New Years ("going to any parties?") but I didn't suggest that we could go out to dance or do something together. So now I'm going to wait until after Christmas to talk to her again, plan, and say to her what I REALLY WANT TO SAY. I hope it works out because I'd hate to lose a friend.

that would surely pique her interest in you or your conversations? Any particular topics beyond school, classes, transfer requirements and "next semester"? I'm currently locked in orbit around the Planet "One Topic".