leftalone

Hello, all. Just posting this as an update...the good news is that my ex is officially on board. After I found out that he stopped seeing the recent girl about a month ago, it was like a total 180. NO more flip flopping, or hedging on his part - he came around 100%. On a date for my birthday (last Monday night), I arrived at his place not expecting too much - he had bought my favorite wine, put out cheese and my gift, which was a beautiful silk dress that he picked out for me to wear out on a fancy dinner. The date was wonderful, but even better, while we were enjoying our wine before leaving we sort of fell into a serious chat. Just about how sometimes he felt backed into a corner, like he had to stand and fight with me when what he needs is to retreat. And how all of that stress built up for him, leading him to throw in the towel. And, he apologized!!! About many things - rushing into his stupid fling with Emily, not being able to deal more maturely when we were first breaking up (just stuck his head in the sand and pretended like we never happened, etc.) I told him just how affected I was by his actions (i.e. total devastation). In the week leading up to that date, I also officially stopped seeing the guy I was seeing casually while dealing with the ex. The most important part of my experience with "the new guy" was getting to see myself from the perspective of someone new - the me that is unwounded, undepressed, not considered alongside emtional baggage. And it was important for me so that I can make sure I never lose that way of being seen by someone who cares about me - something I'll need to watch very closely from the "ex" ("current"? Wow. never thought I'd say that, got so used to "ex") ANother thing, adn this is advice to all - because I was frozen in grief, etc. for so long, I really didn't think I grew or gained anything from being without him and hurt by him. But I did - I had so much time alone, thinking thinking thinking, that during that time I was able to identify a lof of the flaws I had brought to our relationship, and how some of MY actions and attitudes had affected us. And I was able to shake a lot of those off, and I feel like such an unencumbered, wonderful person to be getting back together with...if that makes sense. HOWEVER - my ex distracted himself all that time, and, while looking like he didn't have a care in the world and without me all of his problems were solved, it turns out that the stresses in his life and mind are even worse now. He's talking about that with me, which is a huge difference from before, but I don't see that he's acknowledging on his own that hurting me or walking away from us was a time period he used valuably at all. Which is leaving me a little unsettled - did he change at all? Are we going to fall into the same uncommunicative, moody ruts, because he hasn't brought anything to light for himself? I don't expect that four months makes us different, perfect people. But, I'm still the one who feels as though he needs to be taking care of me, helping me destress and begin to trust our couple status again. And there I was last night, reassuring him, walking on eggshells when he snapped at a suggestion I made for him to destress...I feel like there is a chance I have lost some power in this relationship. Namely, after last night's disappointment, the power to say "You don't have the right to direct the stress in your life that you can't make sense of my way, by snapping at me or, for that matter, leaving me" (harking back to him pinning his problems on our relationship in the first plaec) is still not totally within my grasp...We were watchign TV in bed and he was really opening up to me in his quiet way about things I never really knew before - how much he internalizes stress, adn it's stress he can't even put his finger on. Just a general frustration or anxiety he experiences throughout the day. The street noise below was really loud at this point and he goes, very frustrated "I dont' think city distractions like this help either, especially since it effects my sleep and adds to the stress". Well, I live in a quiet part of the neighborhood, wtih no street noise, and we had made plans to spend some QT together tonight before I leave town for the weekend for a wedding (invited and RSVPd pre-reconciliation). So, I sort of was stroking his hair and said, very quietly, "why dont' we stay at my place tomorrow night? it's quiet there, and no one will be there, we can just decompress" and he SNAPPED back "No. I don want to do anything tomorrow night." Like a child. He would occasionally be like this when we were together, just aim his unknown frustration my way and pull the trigger. I just turned onto my other side, said "goodnight then". And went to sleep. In short, after all I've been through BECAUSE of him, I'm not sure I'm completely equipped or willing to now make him being happy and destressed the core of the issues we deal with, with no room for anyone taking care of, or trying to destress, me. Not sure if this makes any sense. But, to sum up, I guess "the road to glory has broken glass"... as they say. I got to spend quite a bit of time wtih someone who was just in a good mood all the time, NICE all the time, happy to see me all the time. The emotions for me didnt' run too deep there, but being around the new guy was REFRESHING. And last night I got to see a glimpse of some of those flaws in my BF that I didn't miss when we were apart (even though I thought I did). A lot of work to be done my friends. For those of you who are in shock/agony/devastated right now, really do hang in there. There was a time when I thought I'd cut my arms off and never open my mouth to speak again in order to just have him back in my life - but we're all worth a lot more than just "being allowed" to be let back in to the fold. Keep that in mind while you're trying to get them back, and if you are getting them back. In my mind in many ways now, the jury is out on HIM...I went through too damn much to not be happy in this relationship once it comes back to me. We all deserve that, so just keep that in mind when those desperate rushes hit. And really DO occasionally dwell on the things about the person that bothered you, the things about them that weren't fulfilling all of your needs. As hard as it is, you do need to remember them - because when/if they come back, you're going to need to weigh those qualities and judge them with fresh eyes and hindsight on your side.

Fletch, I agree with the NC without an announcement beforehand. Just stop contacting - that'll send the message you're trying for all by itself, which is that you're at the end of your rope. I'm glad for these posts this morning - i've woken up into a frustrating day, too, even though i'm not sure why. Still have conversations that haven't happened, still wondering about my exbf's wanting to "be single" and "not be in a relationship" while basically carrying on a new relationship wtih me, etc. Am wondering if even under hte best scenario, if we worked things out completely and were just like we were before the break-up, only with the kinks ironed out - is he really going to ever be the same person to me? For starters, I'll never be able to look at him and go - he would never leave me (he's already done it!). Wondering if the cracks in our foundation can ever really be repaired...or if I'll ever get him to ante up fully and even GO ALL THE WAY with trying to do the repairs... Hang in there, everyone

So it's been awhile since I gave an update...last time I posted, things almost fell through altogether, because I gave in to being slightly pushy about spending time together, etc. we ended that talk in a good place, having taken sex off the table for awhile, until I felt more confident about us. So all week last week was wonderful - emailing, cooking dinner together, having an entire weekend this weekend of romantic dates, deep sea fishing, reading in the park, etc. Just perfect, and I am feeling more and more secure about him and us, so I'm warming up to trusting his intentions with me. It's been a very steady, nice progression. BUT, and this might be a doozy. BUT - on Saturday morning, before our fishing trip, I was browsing his computer to check my bank account online, and he had happened to leave his email account open. I know it is so so SO wrong of me, and I tried to hard to resist, but I couldn't help it - I started browsing through it. Here is what I found: Several emails back and forth with someone named Kate (who I had noticed in his cell phone call log a couple of weeks ago). Apparently, in the same week back in May when he came around for a week and hten abruptly ended the reconciliation with me, he started going on dates with her. Some of the emails made me want to vomit: "I had an amazing time", etc. You know, typical third - eighth date flirty email stuff. They were clearly intimate with each other. Then, he stopped writing her and/or making plans as much with her right when he went on that fishing trip (i.e. when we ran into each other and then had that great night when I went to get my earrings). He leaves for two weeks, comes back, we continue to hesitantly get together, and they were still occasionally emailing (mostly her, asking to go out for drinks, etc.). His enthusiasm towards her had dropped off consistently. Then, last Monday there was an email from her referring to a conversation they had had the night before, in which he apparently dumped her. Her email is saying 'it's too painful for me to be your friend", and "I just hope you don't say the things you said to me to the next girl", etc. They were only seeing each other for about six weeks, so whatever he said must have been like the first girl he dated (immediately following our breakup). He responded to her with a formal, polite apology, saying I'm sorry if I strung you along but I really can't be dating new people right now, etc. You're a great girl, so positive, so I really enjoyed seeing you, and hopefully we can still hang out as friends when you're ready. This was two days after our serious spat, where I said to him "what the f—k are we doing here" and letting him know that I wanted to be dating each other exclusively etc. So the outcome of that talk was clearly good – he broke it off with this person right away. However, she emailed him this past Wednesday (three days after he dumped her) to say "I feel a lot better, you're not that much of a heartbreaker, so I would like to hang out. Do you want to get coffee sometime next week?" he responds with a friendly "okay" and now it seems they have coffee plans for tomorrow night. Leading me right back to – what the hell???? Does this guy just keep trying on other women and comparing them to me? WHY are they getting together for coffee if he ended it with her and we had this wonderful week together where the bonds are repairing themselves stronger each day between us…I'm so angry and hurt that during the three weeks of no-contact in June, where I suffered so much after getting my hopes up, he was just flying along into another dating scenario, like I was just the old bag to dump again and try on someone else… So right now, I feel mad at myself for snooping through his email (and obviously can't bring up Kate with him because of my invading his privacy to find out about her), wonderful about where we are right now, worried he'll do the same thing yet again, and angry that my self esteem takes a blow because some seemingly great, uncomplicated girl has come along twice now, both turning out to be the wrong thing. And I feel like this sucker who he sees as just waiting patiently while he explores what else is out there, when I'M the one who got hurt, and I'M the one who should have been calling the shots… Anyway, after what I found out, I decided that until he says those words to me that he loves me, and wants us to be official again, I am not going to stop going on dates, and I'm not going to broach serious talks with the ex. What do you all think about this turn of events? (Besides lecturing me on invading his privacy, I know how terrible and low that was)

Agreed. Craig, love is definitely about sacrificing and doing what it takes to be together. But, that rule applies when it's a mutual give and take. So far she's not doing much sacrificing, not doing what it takes 100%, so Craig don't even THINK about shifting that balance and giving up what may be right for you and your son when your ex has a lot of work to do to convince YOU that SHE'S a sure thing and she's not going to run for the door the minute things get difficult... Part of this breaking up stuff that is so hard and it is such a trap that is easy to fall into is that we can forget what work needs to be done FOR us, not just BY us - that we make (or made) up half of the relationship, and thereforeeee deserve a true meeting of effort, love, etc. The fact that one person took the low road and bailed does not mean that they are now holding the purse strings, so to speak. Just my rant for the day!

Hi! Keep hanging in there...Fridays for some reason were very very hard for me. Even though I was thrilled that I didn't have to be at work and could just think and be alone, I would dread the looming two days when we normally would have spent all of our time together...even being at my own apartment on the weekends was awful, because we always spent them at his place. It is a summer weekend, so you make sure you do something, even if it just taking the newspaper to a quiet park or coffee shop and pretending to read it. Or just get a coffee and stare into space, all day if necessary. But keep on with NC, at all costs - you can DO IT!!!!!!! You really can, and you'll be so glad that you did. Not sure what the weather is like where you are, but here in NY the winter comes all too soon - so make sure you allow yourself to jog or put on music and open your windows or walk or be outside in the sun even if you feel terrible doing it. You're really doing so well - via your silence you're coming accross in this phase of your break-up as as a strong, confident, whole person (no matter how you feel on the inside) Hang in there, you can DO THIS!!!!!!!!!

You're doing great!!!! One whole week - that's really something. Remember a week ago, when you thought how long and painful 7 DAYS would be without contacting her? Well, I'm sure it WAS long and it was definitely painful but guess what? The week passed. When I was going through NC, which I did straight for three weeks, the first week was horrific. But after that, some days I almost got charged up by it - and I made sure to tell myself ANYTHING that would make it possible for me not to contact him. My favorite was "he thinks I've met someone else. I've moved on." And that is EXACTLY what he was thinking - that I was furious at him, and that I'd had it with putting myself out there, the rope I had given him for waffling had suddenly run out, and he needed to pick up the slack or risk losing me forever. You not contacting her sends a very clear message, one that could never be sent if you were still laboring over occasional emails, IMs, phone calls, etc. - it says to her THIS IS WHAT IT IS LIKE WITHOUT ME IN YOUR LIFE...and that thought in her head is going to snowball during this time, the possibility that you are really and truly gone. It was liberating for me (and sometimes horrible, the valleys were total panic) - but the liberation came in because instead of constantly going "should I send it? Should I wait? What if I call and he's not home? etc" I just found myself in this place where there was nothing I could do. You're doing great!!!!! Seriously, just keep venting on here if you get crazy - we'll all keep checking on you, we're in this boat together!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree exactly...in fact, I had an uncomfortable feeling being there on Thursday, like I was imposing (not because he made me feel that way, but just because it wasn't time devoted to a planned get together). I know better than to have been there, but out of uncertainty I did it anyway...remember in OF MICE AND MEN when Lenny crushes the rabbit? Yeah. This is exactly the metaphor I need to avoid... I did, in fact, dodge a bullet, and our talk and his obvious frustration was a much needed wake up call for me. Impatience is my biggest flaw ... and this weekend a lot of what I thought about was to take into account everything I know about him and how he operates - and in certain areas, he operates very differently than I do. I have to respect that and appreciate the level of steps he is taking - in fact, I have decided to use this as an opportunity to maybe learn things about him that I didn't know before... Now that he has successfully reassured me about the physical concerns (i.e. our being intimate with so many questions still unanswered for me), I feel 100 times better - like now I can evaluate and participate in everything going on with us at face value, not being complicated by sleeping together. At least for a little while I'm backing off, in a big way...thanks for the friendly reminder

Quick update - after our little confo on Thursday night, and reading Fletch's and Craig's replies Friday, I decided to just pull back in a big way, because I have learned by now that serious talks with the ex are going to come in bits and pieces...so I went to a baseball game Friday night on a date, and went to the beach for the weekend. I was stressing what had happened, especially the words echoing in my head "It's not like we're together" over and over...but I just determined to go along as usual, not call him or anything and let him come to me. I got home to my apartment yesterday around 5, and went through the mail, read a book etc., so I wouldn't think too much, and what do you know? At 7ish the ex calls me, unsolicited, to see if I'd like to get together for a Scrabble game (our favorite) and some take-out for dinner. He walked to my place to pick me up and we walked back to his place, had Chinese, a fun time playing the game with his roommates (an engaged couple), and he was wonderful, totally relaxed and affectionate the whole time. AND - I followed through with the "no-sex" pact, although it was very difficult (and more so for him , but he understands what's behind it ... right before we went to sleep he goes "Um...I'm sorry for being a mean a*$hole on Thursday night. I said a lot of cold things, b/c I was really really jealous." I said I knew that, and that I was jealous, too, of the possibilities of other people for him, and then he said I have nothing to jealous about at all, and I said same goes for him... I'm feeling so very relaxed, especially because I feel as though after wrestling with my need to overthink, and smother him with my presense, etc. I've hit my stride - as long as I back off quietly, he'll come around...just have to keep reminding myself of that formula when I start to get anxious again - although the no-sex factor is ENORMOUSLY reassuring... p.s. we opened our fortune cookies after dinner and when he opened his, he just laughed kind of sheepishly and looked up at me, grinning. He holds out his fortune, which says "do not be afraid to take a big step". And mine said, no kidding, "your dreams are about to come true.".

One step forward and two steps back... Last night I went over to the ex's to watch the Democratic Convention speeches, after me and his roommate (my friend Tina) went for drinks. I hung out mostly with Tina at his place trying on clothes, etc., then ex and I settle in to the couch to watch the speeches. He was fairly affectionate, putting his arm on my knee, etc. THen, when the program was over, he starts flipping through a magazine, intently, for about twenty minutes. I took this as some kind of cue and started to pick up my bag and say I was going to go home and get some sleep...he's like "why don't you just stay here?" I say ok...but then he continues to look at his magazine. It was awkward for me, like he wasn't even reading it he was just staring at it...so I go "what do you have planned for your weekend?" and he just flat out ignores the question. After about ten minutes of total silence, a commercial comes on for the Yankees games this weekend and I blurt out "oh I'm going to the game tomorrow night. A friend got tickets in the company box." He looks away and goes "how many tickets?" I said "two" and realized oh boy, here we go - the "friend" is the guy I've been sort of seeing the last month...but I was glad that I had made the opportunity to find out what was up with us. So then he goes "you know, you don't have to just say "my friend", and be all vague - you can just say you have a date. AND HERE"S THE KICKER - "You can go on dates, WE'RE NOT TOGETHER." I was absolutely stunned - I just stood up and stared down at him open-mouthed, thinking 'Then what the F#!% are we doing here???" I said nothing, just went into his room and got my other bag, and started to really get ready to leave without a word. He is like a baby - the only way I can get him to engage in a conversatin is to make suggestions and vague references that push his buttons. So the gloves came off - he asked me why I was leaving and then asked "what's wrong with you, you seem like something's wrong". I said "honestly, my feelings are incredibly hurt." and then it all came out - I told him that i was not in this casually, and if he was then he should have just cleared that up in the first place because I woudl never have continued on the last few weeks...i told him that the reason I may have been too eager wtih calls and planning is because when i leave in the morning i do so with a huge question mark over my head about the physical stuff, wondering if this is just casual filler for him....i told him about how the last four months could in now way allow me to just 'hang out' with him like a casual person with no intent on working on things and possibly getting back together...' He goes - I told you back in May that I wanted to be single and I didn't want to be in a relationship." I almost punched him - that's the announcement that made me stop all contact in the first place, when I told him I loved him and couldn't be a casual fling for him. Three weeks later, when he came around before and after his trip I thought "well, he made up his mind". Anyway, it got really bad - him saying "Okay maybe we should just stop this altogether. I don't think this is going to work". But I didn't let him leave it there...I probed him, asking him why he thinks so, and he goes "it just seems like with us it's either all or nothing. it's only been three weeks and here I am feeling like we're just steam rolling along into being an ultra-serious couple again. and you're the one going out on dates". So, obviously the idea of my going out wtih ohter people had hurt him. I told him what did he expect if he wasn't going to ask me to be exclusive, but then he said "I thought it was just obvious the last few weeks that we were exclusive. I've turned down a date or two in those weeks because of us". And I let him know that "see? You can't just let me assume these things, because if I assume too much from you, I end up getting hurt, these things have to be spelled out, even if they're hard to spell out" I also told him that this is very much grey area, there doesn't have to be black and white, on or off...a lot of time has passed since we were a serious couple, and we've both changed/grown during that time in various ways, and we HAVE to start slow to see if we can build a new house on the old foundation, so to speak...he liked that idea, and calmed down a bit (things had gotten heated about the dating other people). Then he suggested that we take sex out of the equation for a little while, because he didn't like the idea of me leaving in the morning questioning his intentions with me all the time. I loved that idea, b/c it was really starting to make me feel vulnerable and constantly anxious. So I said "Okay, are we still going to 'be dating'?" and he said "yes, romantically and hanging out as friends, too". I also told him, loud and clear "That's what I want too. But I cannot be strung along. No one wants to be on a string, and it's just not fair to do to me". He agreed. WHEW. So, I stayed the night (just sleeping), and the funny thing is after our talk and we had calmed down, he was sweeter, more affectionate, and more himself to me than he had been yet - was an absolute sweetheart this morning, even though he didn't have to get up for work and I did, he woke up with me, joked around, didn't leave my side all night. I have to talk to the new guy after the yankees game tonight, because i think it's dividing my attention, and i now know that hte ex was hurt that I just kept going out on dates all of this time...although he didn't make a proactive point to secure me to himself, either. And the other thing is, I'm a little worried that his threat of "fine now I"m going to start going on dates" is something he'll actually do b/c now HE feels vulnerable, so I hope I didn't create a monster there... anyway, such a long post, sorry...it seems that the grey area is just as hard for the exes as it is for us, b/c they're still fighting the impulses that were strong enough to make them leave in the first place...oh man does this require patience, and faith and trust...But I am still dumbfounded about how hot and cold his feelings/intentions, etc. are - within ONE conversation, he flippantly told me to date other people, then gets upset that I was dating other people, told me we're not together we're just getting closure, and then tells me all this time he's considered us exclusive. And ends it with us continuing to date minus the sex. It's like a yoyo with him, like I"m watching a tennis match going on in his brain.

You're both right, thank you. I got so used to thinking, thinking, thinking (no, OBSESSING) about stuff and him when he was gone from my life altogether that I have found it is now habitual - i have to stop doing it so that I myself can be an effective, confident partner in the relationship, not some weepy worry-wart for whom nothing is ever enough... I guess that's what getting back together is ultimately about, and where the responsibility (and power, in a way) falls on the shoulders of those in our position - it becomes a leap of faith and trust, and whether you still love the person enough to take risks on them again...i have to remember that i took a risk when i first started dating him in the first place, as all people do when they start something together. He and I used to joke all the time about how much I read into things and how much I worry about stuff...that is a flaw in my character that I would really like to build up as a positive outcome from our break-up. So, I'll go with what's happening now, trust in the ultimate goodness of this guy I devoted a lot of my life to, continue to build myself and my own confidence up in other areas so that i can bring that to our "new" relationship, and if I'm wrong then at least I know I took a gamble, and I'll be stronger (but not bitter) for it... I guess that's what we're all doing, huh? Hanging out on limbs... This board is ever the godsend - I would be nowhere right now if I hadn't had wise words from my dumpee compatriots to save me from myself

Wise words indeed, and as usual, all. As for the imbalance in intiating contact/plans, I'm going to take your advice S&D and keep from emailing or calling/planning for a bit and let him get around to calling me. At the very least, if it takes him a gross amount of time to do so, I'll be able to broach the subject of my feeling like the intiator, using the X amount of days he will have taken to contact me as an example. I really don't have a leg to stand on right now in that argument, because I know him well, and all he would say is "but we talk/see each other every or every other day, you don't even give me a chance to initiate". Yesterday we were emailing about the new poker chips set he purchased and I mentioned that in two and half years he never once offered to teach me the game, which is why I never participated in his poker gatherings (he always wanted me to). I was just talking in general, but then he responds with "I did SO offer. But I would love to teach you - come over tonight and we'll play!". I wasn't even fishing to see him last night, so I guess that was a nice sign - plus, a few friends of his were over and he was totally comfortable/enjoying my being there - not at all trying to separate his "i'm single" life with our time together. I digress though - it was still an activity I felt was prompted by me, and this morning was a little strange, bringing me to Fletch's words of caution - the sex aspect is complicating things for me, making me more anxious than I probably need to be. This morning he didn't feel so hot, had a slight hangover, and we were running late - i got coffee but he had to run to catch the train and didn't even give me a parting kiss, just told me have a good day and rushed for the stairs. I immediately thought that when it comes to sex, though, he's right there and 'available', but can't take one or two seconds before parting to be affectionate with me before work in the morning...????? so, besides holding back on contacting him in general, i'm also going to hold back on the intimacy physically - i don't want my level of discomfort to be intensified that we're progressing physically but not emotionally, etc. I need to separate the two here, so I can read his relationship actions more clearly. But, it just occurred to me that I seem to be the one initiating things physically, too, once we go to bed...it's like when I really analyze his actions overall right now he is just letting me make all the moves and come to him - calling, emailing, planning activities, being affectionate when we hang out, and sexually. Is he being careful with me and letting me decide how we'll proceed, or is he being plain old lazy? These are things I'm trying to weigh, and I go back and forth. Last night after the guests left he and I were finishing a beer and I mentioned that I had gotten him a poker table accessory way back for our 2 year anniversary, but got ambushed by our subsequent break-up the following week in giving it to him. I joked "then I hated your guts for awhile so I didn't plan on giving it to you at all"...and immediately said "just kidding'. And he goes "no you weren't. i'm sure you did hate my guts"...which made me see the hesitancy on his part as a possible result of that theory - that he is embarrassed, ashamed of his behaviour during that time and is having a hard time taking accountability and/or being proactive with me. But you gotta suck it up sometimes, if you really want to be with someone!!!!!! He is a man of few words, and obviously I am the opposite...as in the awful depths of the broken up stage, the only way I'll reach a 'zen' state about all of this analyzing is no or very little contact on my part...it worked then, the constant thinking eased up a bit after the tough first few days, so that's what I'm going to do now... Plus, I'm going to keep going on dates with the new guy, and just keep him at arm's length somewhat - like you guys said, I'm taking advantage of my limbo stage while I have the chance! GREY AREA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cruuk, I just want you to know that we all feel for you. Reading your post made me cringe, remembering those first few weeks after he broke up with me (together 2 years). And like you, HE chased ME, even when I moved accross country we did long distance for awhile, and then he moved here to NY to be together. Next week will be four months, and there were weeks at first where if anyone even mentioned a future point in time, even in conversation, like "oh I can't wait for my trip in July" or something equally casual, I would almost lose my mind, realizing that would be a future point in time without him...i just couldn't see that far, the pain was so intense and so crippling. I am so, so, so sorry you are where you are right now - I wish I could flash you forward about two or three months, the point when things very, very slowly started to look up for me...I wish I could say that the two or three first months was a valuable time, learning experience, yada yada yada, but really it was just so painful that I just kept putting one foot in front of the other just to get through each day, without trying to take any wisdom from well-meaning people around me. You're so right about the best friend part - it's perhaps the worst right away, because after a few years with someone the romance is often and wonderful, but hte friendship, buddy system of being part of a team is what you really miss right away. Look, all I can tell you is that it really really will get better - right now, there is nothing you can do, and that includes kicking yourself or having regrets about your own behavior thinking it was your fault she quit out on you guys. You can work on becoming the version of you you liked best before you say you got into a moody slump for awhile; be healthy, enjoy the summer, take deep breaths. Just get through the day, and post and vent here to your heart's content - it's such a godsend, i wish I had found this site when I was in your stage. We're here for you, just keep going...

Hi D346 - I am in a very similar boat with you as of your last post to this forum. My ex and I have been working our way slowly back together for the last month (two weeks of which he was away on vacation for, though). This week so far, though, we went out on a lovely date on Monday and I stayed over - it was just like the old days, and he actually suggested the idea of going to what was our favorite nice resturant, getting ice cream afterwards, etc. Totally romantic. Since then, though, I heard nothing from him - so I called him last night and we agreed to have a date on Friday. I know from his roommate and from the ex himself that he still has a link removed profile up (althoug he said he hasn't checked it in forever, had gone on one terrible date a while back and decided it was worthless and lame). And, aside from that, we still haven't addressed if this is us working towards officially sealing the deal and becoming a full-fledged couple again, or if this is just him being single and "dating" me (which I already refused to do back in May, and subsequently did NC wtih him for almost a month). Having already told him that he can't just try me on for size and be casually dating me, and actively pursuing other prospects, is it likely that that's what he's doing all over again? I'm so afraid to bring the topic of 'us' up, because in the past it just freaks him out, makes him feel pressured. His roommate (my friend) keeps saying that I better get it straight loud and clear that we are working with the intent of getting back together. then i have other friends though who tell me "don't pressure him and push him away, let him just keep spending time with you and come around". So I'm torn. I, like you, feel as though we should be picking up where we left off, seeing each other like a serious couple (talking and seeing each other every day), not just a few times a week and most of those dates initiated by me...still have that nagging feeling constantly that he is just not pursuing me, he's just sitting back and enjoying the ride and getting to have his cake and eat it, too....HELP!!!!! Limbo is awful...

No, it was NOT a bad move. We all reach the point you reached - after over a month of coffee, small talk, friendly contact, and then even a week of romantic 'dates', I had had it with my ex's refusal to discuss his feelings for me or us or just about anything. So, I did what you did - I blew my cover, revealed my hand and told him how I felt, reminding him that I had said right from the get-go 'do not bother trying to be my friend, it's not possible for me', and I felt like that's exactly what he was trying to do. With nowhere to go but up, I told him I loved him, but that if he wanted to be single, then go ahead and be single, but he'd have to do it without me in his life in any context. And then, miserable but faced with no other hope, etc., I cut off contact completely (during which time I joined this board, which probably saved my life!). I made myself face the very real possibility that my future was not going to include him after all, after trying and hoping for two agonizing, long months of hope and denial. Three weeks into NC, what do you know? I run into him, he looks stunned that that was it from me as far as contact goes, and within a week from that point, he started to make firm advances. We're now seeing each other romantically, and he has told me that once I said thanks for the memories, I can't do this, can you put all of our photos on a CD so I can have them for my memory box, he realized the finality of the place I had reached, and that he didn't want finality… You had to do this, Craig…every time I got to a point where I'd go "oh my god, what did I do, why didn't I just stay in limbo. At least that way he was in my life…????" I remembered how AWFUL and confusing and exhausting limbo was - almost worse than the first days of the break-up itself. I think you will find that the NC stage, while very, very sad, is also freeing in the way that you have made a decision that there is nothing left you can do. She is stunned by what you said - her text message was a very girl-move of not being able to just take what you said and end it there…she wants to "come get some stuff", probably because she was not prepared for you to stop allowing her the possiblity of seeing you in person. I don't think she's mad - all you did was tell her how you feel about her, and how what you have with her right now flies right in the face of how you feel (i.e. you love her…). No sane person would be able to be in a friendship with someone they were still in love with, and she had to know she'd run out of rope there… Now do it - NO CONTACT, whatever it takes. My very firm guess, based on my own almost exact scenario, is that she will come around once you have dropped off her map…

So the ex has been back from his trip for ten days. We saw each other three days last week - even had an actual date to the movies, etc. By Friday, my nerves were starting to get the best of me, though. I guess I still have trouble not understanding why we don't just pick up where we left off, and be as in contact as we used to be - daily phone calls, seeing each other almost every day, etc. So, I still very vulnerable that way, like if I don't hear from him for two days I start to think that his intentions are not to work on getting back together, he just is stringing me along. Bottom line is, i hate feeling so insecure with or for anyone. For example, we were supposed to go to the Motor Vehicles department together on Friday afternoon to renew drivers licenses - he wrote me at work at noon to say he didn't feel like going, and it was like my panic instinct kicked in...i ended up telling him I was going to stop by, with the intent of getting a lot of things off my chest, but once I got there I took a deep breath and bit my tongue. i'm glad I did, because we ended up having a great afternoon together - got some lunch, took a nap and then he suggested going for ice cream. Plus, his friend came over to pick him up when we were leaving, and the friend was not at all surprised to see me there (as if the ex had mentioned we were seeing each other again). So it's like when we're together, things are wonderful, but as soon as we leave each other, all the questions come back to haunt me, and I just want to hear from him right away. I left him early Friday evening and took the train down to the beach house I share with friends - I knew he had plans for most of the weekend, but I called him on Saturday at 6ish to see if he had plans for that night b/c I was considering coming back to the city early. He was very short with me on the phone, businesslike - he was with a few friends at a music festival and told me that it was going to continue into the evening. So I got off the phone quickly and nicely - but then, I haven't heard from him since - not even a "how was your weekend" phone call. And yesterday was a rainy Sunday, when we were both just hanging around the neighborhood (we live just ten blocks from each other). In the old days, we would have absolutely spent a day like that together at his place, watching TV or shopping online...I just kept thinking "why hasn't he called to hang out" So, the positive thing is our week together last week was really good, well spaced, and all fun times...plus, we have so-called plans to go out to dinner this week. The bad side is that I haven't heard from him since we parted ways Friday night...Is it just me being a nervous mess? Do I need to have some patience and stop being in such an anxious rush? Or am I right to expect some reassurance on his part, either with words or actions???? I feel so trapped, because I don't feel yet like i can talk to him about these questions without majorly risking pushing him away. For those who read my post on Fletch's thread on Friday - I didn't end up doing the ultimatum (obviously), and I've cooled off some from my frustration - but I spent most of hte weekend almost boiling over, with my finger on the phone on the verge of totally blowing my top... please someone on the outside of this analyze his actions since his return...I need one of you wise observers to tell me to just CHILL OUT, it's all in my head, or to tell me that I'm right on the money to expect a lot more than what he's doing...

Well, all, I'm thinking it's #2, in my case anyway... Sorry to comandeer Fletch's post a bit, but we're now OFFICIALLY in the same boat. I just got an email from the ex cancelling our little trip to the DMV, because "he really doesn't feel like standing in line this afternoon". I gave him a call and am going to stop by his place on my way home (since I already have a half day from work). I let him know that I have few plans this weekend when he asked, and he didn't take the bait and ask me to do anything. F--k him, I'm tired of this - I need to get some answers, now. I've had it, seriously. I've done this TWICE now, he's had plenty of chances to make up his mind on me, and I'm really playing the role of sucker here. Basically, you either want to be with me, and make an effort, or you don't. I won't do this for weeks, months, however long, and lose what we used to have in the process. Those memories are precious to me, and at this point I'd rather know him that way in my memory than have this hot/cold, intimidating person I hardly recognize... Will provide updates, and let you all know what happens with the 1% chance of success in giving ultimatums.

I'm sorry to hear she cancelled Fletch. If it makes you feel any better (doubtful it will, but misery loves company but I have not heard from the ex since our wonderful date on Tuesday night. I have gone out with total strangers in the past who at least called or emailed in the few days following a date, so it's pretty obvious where I fall on my ex's priority list right now. Feeling extremely taken for granted...we do have a 'date' to go to the department of motor vehicles to renew drivers licenses this afternoon - not exactly the romantic outing I had pictured, plus I basically invited myself along on his errand, since we both needed to go anyway. He hasn't initiated contact or suggested a date/outing of any kind since we saw each other Tuesday night, and I'm sure he has a great weekend lined up that does not include me. I feel incredibly angry and frustrated and somewhat emotionally taken advantage of…as for your ex cancelling your date for this weekend after not seeing each other for awhile again (what, a week?), just continue on with your own plans, fun, personal time, whatever…just as long as you DO NOT let her cancelling ruin any of the next few days for you - she's incredibly lucky for your patience with her, even if she doesn't totally realize it yet.

Fletch, I hear you on the pulled back and forth perspective. My ex has now, for the second time in the almost four months we've been apart, started to come around again, and after two wonderful evenings together so far this week, I'm starting to get the itch to deliver an ultimatum myself. I leave in the morning thinking "okay, so what next? is it all up to him?" We rarely address what we 'are' right now, just the occasional comment he makes here and there... I keep reminding myself over and over that the ultimatum is probably 99% sure to push him away - so I think I'm going to pass that feeling on to you, too. Patience, patience, patience. If you really, really want this to work, it does have to be on both of your terms, but remember, you're not the one who decided to end the relationship ever - if it was up to you, you'd never have broken up, right? So, of COURSE it seems obvious to you to move things along as quickly as possible, but for her it is probably the last remnants of her doubts keeping their hold on her, and influencing her actions (or lack thereof as the case may be). Don't give her any reason to decide to bolt again...but just make sure that while the leash you give her is long, that your self-respect, etc. doesn't totally get away from you in the process. As for me and my ex, I'm trying to follow the same advice, but once I feel that we've reached a certain comfort level around each other again when we do hang out, certain things are going to need to be addressed. I'm just keeping it cool, and continuing on with my own self recovery in the meantime, just in case i find myself having to really move on... You do the same - put her out of your mind (I know, ha ha yeah right) wherever or however possible when you two are not in contact, and just go with the flow of what's happened so far - think of the progress already! Her saying she is "100%" trying to work things out together is really a huge, huge step forward, right?? Just remember that...

So the ex returns from his two week trip the day after tomorrow. I've taken the advice of a lot of you and spent the last two weeks thinking A LOT - about everything that happened in our relationship, and everything that's happened since the break-up. I've been able to work through a lot of the hurt and shock that came with how much his actions during and after the break-up emotionally just levelled me, concluding that he handled things the only way he knew how to make what he was doing manageable to him (in other words, just totally turn the other cheek and reinvent his life so as not to realize how drastically he had just changed it). So, a lot of that hurt/anger has softened for me. The thing is, though, after three and a half months, my patience is wearing really thin. I just can't live my life much longer with him being the unknown variable…I've gone out several times with a guy that I find really nice and fun (although definitely not wanting to get serious with anyone), but the experience has at least reminded me that my being in a romantic scenario in the future with someone besides my ex IS possible. And, because so much time has passed, I have to admit to myself that, having no other choice, I don't wake up missing him as painfully and acutely as I did for so long, and whole chunks of my day go by where I don't think of him. Whether I wanted it to or not, the agony of not having him in my life has eased enormously, and so I absolutely can't let him waver his way back in just to leave me again. So, to sum up, when he returns from his trip I will wait for him to contact me, but any actions, behavior, gestures etc. he makes are going to have to be pretty assertive and firm. Four months of trying "single life" on, and reflecting on what went wrong and if the foundation of the relationship was strong and its problems are workable, has to breed some kind of result. I won't pose any ultimatums or anything like that, but the way I see it is that the person you love and who loves you is so often a reflection of how you see yourself - in other words, when you don't feel so hot about yourself, you can look to the perspective of your loved one and see yourself through their eyes, etc., which is part of what is so wonderful about being in a secure relationship. Knowing that he is so uncertain about how he feels about me, or that his feelings for me are hot one minute and cold the next, is turning out to be harder than just setting my feet firmly on a path of being by myself and frankly is damaging to my self esteem. I'm certain that I love him and that our relationship was worth struggling through some problems for. If he needed time to just freak out and jump ship, that to me is perfectly acceptable and normal - settling down with someone is SCARY, especially when problems arise that seem so emotionally draining and hard to deal with. Maybe every relationship needs that panic time to confirm that what you have together is what you really want…but allowing him this has cost me so much heartache and time and pain, not to mention 13 pounds and nearly my sanity, and so I feel that I have paid my 'pound of flesh' so to speak, and he's really going to have to be certain about me when he returns. I went away with friends this weekend for the 4th of July where a bunch of us share a beach house, and besides having a wonderful time with them all just relaxing and getting away, I had a wonderful conversation with my closest guy friend who went through a break-up that was longer than the relationship (which was 3 yrs.). It was this constant on and off thing, where she'd come back around and he'd hold his breath and bite his tongue, and didn't care about getting any answers so long as he had her around, but then she'd change her mind again and leave…anyway, he told me that he regrets every letting it get past the first few months of uncertainty and that the three years of back and forth basically ruined the three wonderful years they originally had together in his memory. That is exactly what I don't want, and what I will not let happen… He came back and left once before, and that almost wrecked me. So now the old saying goes - "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

So I have something of an update...after our great night together on Wednedsay night, I ended up going on a date with a guy I've gone out with a few times casually. I don't want to confuse myself, but I have felt such impatience lately that I figured why not. Especially because the ex left things SO unclear once again on Thursday morning. So I'm on this date, it's fun and laid back although I kept thinking 'great, so now ex and I won't talk for another two weeks', and then at 11:30 my phone rings and it's him. I was trapped, couldn't excuse myself from the date to talk to him, although I wanted to. I felt though that he might wonder where I could be at 11:30 on a Thurs. that I wasn't picking up my phone (I'm usually in bed watching Friends reruns by then). Anyway, he left a voicemail saying "just wanted to say goodnight. So I'll see you in two weeks...I'll be up for awhile, so if you want give me a call back.". I loved the I'll SEE you in two weeks part (of course I take it literally and hopefully). I did not call him back that night. The next day he writes me an email at noon saying "i'm leaving for the airport in 30 minutes. I just wanted to let you know that I'll be checking email here and there so if you get bored at work feel free to chat with me". FEEL FREE??? I don't understand this. Why doesn't HE just email ME and take an assertive stance while he's away. Like this week, he's been away since Friday, why not just drop ME an email and ask how I'm doing. Why is he constantly putting the ball in MY court, when he knows full well how I feel and where I stand? This is getting extremely frustrating - while it's great that he initiated two follow-ups to our evening together within twelve hours of each other, I feel like he is making such a point to keep his tone and suggestions casual, non-aggressive. When by now, I am starting to feel like I am worth getting aggressive over - why should I have lead him towards me...? Anyway, of course like an idiot, i caved this morning and dropped him a casual email asking how's his trip going and telling him what's been going on with my week. But now I feel like once again, I broke down and chased him ...

Fletch, this all sounds so similar to the position I am in right now. My EXBF has made tiny steps to 'come around', once going so far as to almost get back together, then I ended up with NC for three weeks. The worst thing is that when we have talked/hung out recently, so little was said about 'us' (actually, nothing at all except waxing nostalgic a little), that I felt strong and sort of ambivalent myself the next day, but of course within a day after that I felt right back where I started. Missing him terribly (still) and thinking 'so what the hell happens now? Um, what are we...?" My ex got off lucky because he is now on a trip for two weeks, left right after our last conversation. He left me with a voicemail on Thursday night saying "Just calling to say good night. I guess I'll see you in a couple of weeks" (I did not return the call) and an email the next day saying "I'm leaving for the airport in 30 minutes. I'll be checking email now and then so FEEL FREE to email me". Again, making ME make all the moves and decisions. All to which I'm going - how much more of this can I do? I'm wondering the same thing about 'the question'...today is three months since our break up, but am I going to be in limbo, with the occasional phone call/get together, dragging on for three more months? Six? We're young, it feels like it's not fair that we're forced up onto this fence to just sit there and waste what is probably precious time because we happen to love someone. I can already feel my ambivalence starting to grow, because I don't think his reluctance has left me much choice. The same might start to happen to you - but I think you just have to hang in there until you just know that you can't wait around in-between anymore. Until you realize that you waited as long as you could...that's my position now - i'm not at the end of my rope, YET, so I'll hang in there...but it can't be much longer. At which point, I'll just know that I said everything I had to, he knew how I felt, and I waited patiently, but that I had a life to live to and he ended up losing out. I know ultimatums never work, but maybe sometimes eventually they end up working for the person who issues them, even if the outcome is not what we want...But for right now, if you're still game to fight for her, DON'T PRESSURE HER - when my ex sort of came back, i made the mistake of waiting all of two daYS before pumping out my questions, my uncertainties, which I know just set me back and made him think 'okay, see? this is what I didn't want right now'....

I agree about the phone call, S&D. One thing that I've thought about lately is how "reason driven" all of our contact with the ex tends to be - how even though they readily agreed to the last "hanging out" encounter, or even initiated it themselves, we still feel like every phone call, email, etc. will send the wrong message (needy, pushy, whatever). So a lot of times I've felt like I had to have a reason to call (need my earrings, wanted to pass along a job listing, etc.) Like sparrow said, the call doesn't have to be for a purpose, like to arrange a date or anything at all, just a call to chat, see what's new, how's the week going... Casual friends ring each other all the time just to say 'hi' - i think it's safe to say that your history and the current stage you and the ex are in elevates you beyond just 'exes' and definitely beyond acquaintances/friends...if you want to say hi and see how her week was and just chat a bit, do it!

I never mentioned the picture CD, but he brought it up this morning, saying he was going to burn it at work today, if I still wanted it...one point of relief when I first got there last night was that he didn't hand me a bag of the three or four things I still have there, just gave me the earrings (so I knew he wasn't trying to totally clean me out and shut the door, if that makes sense...) The last two to three weeks turned out to really have been great for me, for one major reason - the week we were 'back together', all I could think about was what HE wanted. What I wanted seemed a given, and moot to me, and that's not at all true now. By not having contact with him at all, I've been able to reach a place where what he wants is only 50% of the pie; what I want is now equally important to me, and a perspective I plan to weigh very carefully. Which would be the only position I could think of to be in a healthy state if we were to get back together. otherwise, I feel as though I would have been unconditional in my pursuit of him, and swept a lot of what I need under the rug just to get things back the way they were. Thinking only about me, and having NC with him, finally got me to a place where this relationship's history and any potential future are as much mine as his, which is SUCH an empowering realization...

forgot to mention...when we were eating, we were talking about relationship arguments in general which somehow led to him saying "do you know how I deal with things?" And I looked him straight in the eye and said "By not dealing with things." and he was just quiet and nodded and mentioned his family history (terrible divorce, father left, he's the youngest and only son)...

So, picking up my earrings went well...He absolutely 'took the bait' from my mentioning in our run-in last week that I had a wedding to go to. He never asks a lot of questions or details about stuff, but within five minutes he was like "so whose wedding, who are you going with, etc.". He wanted to know if the guy I have been out with a few times (he heard from a friend), is serious. We sat down and chatted for a bit, and then I said "well I better get going, I'm starving" (it was after 8 by then). He goes "oh, well, I haven't eaten yet either. I should eat something too - do you want to get something together?" (this line took about three full minutes for him to get out). I said sure, we ended up just getting take-out sandwhiches. When we were waiting for our food, he brought up our trip to the Caribbean (that ended in our breakup), and how after everything he really did have a good time, and that the last night there just seemed like any other fight that you laugh about later because you can't even remember what started it. anyway. we ate dinner, had a glass of wine in his kitchen and just talked about stuff, all non-related to us. the best thing (for me) was that for the first time since the break-up, after the encounters/get-togethers we have had, etc., i didn't care that we weren't talking about 'us'. All of a sudden, we weren't being these carefully reinvented people we had been around each other every other time we had hung out, where I"m hanging on for any opening to see how he feels about me etc....we were just being the way we used to be, totally comfortable, laughing a lot, referring to all the great memories of our past easily and with a lot of happiness. I stayed over b/c we ended up talking until past one - it never got pointed, or tense or emtionally draining. It was just nice - we were even joking about some of the harsher moments of the first few weeks of breaking up (i.e. my taking all of his pillows because I had purchased them). It felt like a lot of water had moved under the bridge, just on its own...(which was ironic, after my months of absolutely obsessing) This morning, we got ready together, laughed a lot, again no tension like the week where we were sort of back together. I think it's because a) I gave up on the pressure cooker questions/comments and b) that I dropped out of sight for a few weeks and when I resurfaced, he saw a happy, strong, reflective and secure me. Maybe the me he forgot about when he ended things? Anyway, before we parted ways for work, he was like 'so we'll chat on email?'. I said sure. He's leaving tomorrow for the two week long fishing trip with his brothers and stepfather. I'm hoping he goes on the trip with a really good feeling about us hanging out last night...that he gets to think through even more what he wants. Again, NC applies on my part, I'm letting him take the reins here. I still have a lot of issues to think about, too, as far as anger, hurt, etc. goes, so the two weeks I think will be good for me, too...