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Thread: Is reconciliation possible in this scenario?

  1. #21
    Platinum Member ThatwasThen's Avatar
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    She's not your wife. Its not like you've been in each others lives as LIFEmates and you are supporting her in sickness and in health. Period. You really shouldn't put your emotional self on the line. By distancing yourself and letting her get the PROFESSIONAL help she needs to overcome her trauma, you are protecting both of you from further hurt. Leave her be and if she wants to hear from you, give her the gift of letting her contact you which will be her wanting your support and you not imposing it on her. If you have let her know you are there for her if she needs support already then just let her come to you if she wants to. If she does, don't let use you for support to the point she never gets the professional help she needs.

    I've also been managing my parents fighting for the last 20 years, which lately has deteriorated to nightmarish levels.
    You might want to look into getting your own therapy to help you with that. It's not a young man's place to "manage" his parents relationship (which I think you're trying to do with this girl now as its become the norm in your life to try and save).

  2. #22
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    Originally Posted by ThatwasThen
    She's not your wife. Its not like you've been in each others lives as LIFEmates and you are supporting her in sickness and in health. Period. You really shouldn't put your emotional self on the line. By distancing yourself and letting her get the PROFESSIONAL help she needs to overcome her trauma, you are protecting both of you from further hurt. Leave her be and if she wants to hear from you, give her the gift of letting her contact you which will be her wanting your support and you not imposing it on her. If you have let her know you are there for her if she needs support already then just let her come to you if she wants to. If she does, don't let use you for support to the point she never gets the professional help she needs.
    I honestly don't know how you can read what I wrote and come to the conclusion I'm imposing myself on her. I made it be known I'm there to support her in any way she needs it. If my emotional well-being is put in jeopardy I will have to walk away from it. She has already leaned on a me few times in the last couple of days as the tremors from her PTSD episode on Saturday persist.

    She DOES need professional help though. During that frantic call she insisted none of it in the past has helped. I think the main problem is she didn't have a support system around her WHILE she was going thru therapy.

    You might want to look into getting your own therapy to help you with that. It's not a young man's place to "manage" his parents relationship (which I think you're trying to do with this girl now as its become the norm in your life to try and save).
    I've considered talking to someone about my thoughts regarding my parents situation. But this situation with the girl is separate from that. There's nothing for me to manage, I'm simply a support system at this time.

  3. #23
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    Yes, being truthful I too am getting a whole lot of 'I need to save somebody' from you.

    She just needs to get professional help. Recommend that she seeks out a treatment called EMDR for her PTSD. It works wonders for a lot of PTSD sufferers.

    You hanging around as a support system will solve nothing regardless of how good your intentions are.

  4. #24
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    Originally Posted by ninjabib
    Yes, being truthful I too am getting a whole lot of 'I need to save somebody' from you.

    She just needs to get professional help. Recommend that she seeks out a treatment called EMDR for her PTSD. It works wonders for a lot of PTSD sufferers.

    You hanging around as a support system will solve nothing regardless of how good your intentions are.
    I don't know that it's as much truthful, as it is cynical (there's A LOT of that on these boards) - especially when you describe it as "hanging around". I'm out there living my life FYI.

    Thank you for your input. But that call I had to sit and listen to on Saturday changed my perspective about a lot of things.

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  6. #25
    Platinum Member ThatwasThen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TimeToGrowUp
    I honestly don't know how you can read what I wrote and come to the conclusion I'm imposing myself on her.
    You are if she uses your "support" that she hasn't requested. You also are if she ends up not going to professional therapy because she has you as her soft place to land. You do her no favours in that case.

    I made it be known I'm there to support her in any way she needs it.
    She does NOT know how she needs it. You could be enabling her issues when you're not trained. To support her as she goes through therapy is one thing. To just support her in any way she needs is quite another.

    If my emotional well-being is put in jeopardy I will have to walk away from it.
    There's where I think you need your own therapy... You should protect yourself from someone who can ruin you emotionally, not stick around, try and fix them and take a chance at your well being being damaged. You've only dated her five months. Like I said, you're not married or in a long term pairing.

    She has already leaned on a me few times in the last couple of days as the tremors from her PTSD episode on Saturday persist.
    Did you suggest she get herself to the ER or her family doctor for a referral to someone trained to help her through those? If you didn't then I have to say shame on you for not. She needs more than you being there for her to "lean on." Google White Knight Syndrome because I think it may apply simply because you've been caretaking (the dysfunction opposite of caregiving) your dysfunction parents for 20 years.

    She DOES need professional help though.
    Indeed!
    During that frantic call she insisted none of it in the past has helped. I think the main problem is she didn't have a support system around her WHILE she was going thru therapy.
    Where are her family? her friends? people that have been in her life more than 5 short months?

    I've considered talking to someone about my thoughts regarding my parents situation. But this situation with the girl is separate from that.
    Its the same church, just a different pew.

    There's nothing for me to manage, I'm simply a support system at this time.
    You are an empty support system is she's not getting the professional help she needs. Kind and empathetic support should be a supplement to professional guidance and care... not the only thing she's using to calm herself. She needs to learn tools to self sooth and not rely on you to get her through her anxiety/angst so don't enable her with your good intentions. If her last therapist wasn't helpful then she needs to find herself another one that she can gel with. It takes more than a few sessions to get yourself over the hump of past trauma.

  7. #26
    Platinum Member Wiseman2's Avatar
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    It sounds like she doesn't want to date, nor is she ready willing or able to. If her PTSD is this bad, leave her to the professionals and steer clear. "I need to work on myself " often means someone else is in the picture but they don't want to tell you that. PTSD (for a day?) doesn't cause people to blow you off suddenly.

    Don't play therapist. She sounds very insincere and dramatic. Take what she tells you with a grain of salt. Most of all stop trying to date, reconcile or hang out with her.
    Originally Posted by TimeToGrowUp
    She had been going through horrific PTSD the entire day. she needs to work on herself right now and heal the toxic anger ruining her life.

  8. #27
    Platinum Member bluecastle's Avatar
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    I think it's worth noting the hard specifics here to try to make the same point as others are:

    She stood you up, which sucks. That is lousy, inexcusable behavior, and it hurt you. You express that hurt and what happens? She flips the script, hard, minimizing your hurt by maximizing hers, and putting you in an awkward position. You're still hurting, because you are a human, but now you feel "bad" about it, that your hurt has a fraction of the weight as hers. You've minimized your own hurt, while still wanting to feel better, less hurt, the most basic human reaction to pain there is. Now your path to feeling better is to support her—the path you're now on, diligently.

    What is all that, in a word? It is manipulation, on all sides.

    I'm not saying her wounds aren't real, serious, and so on, or that your empathy is solely a Trojan Horse containing your selfishness. Still, what she did was manipulative. She replaced your feelings with her feelings, and made understanding and accommodating her feelings a "cure" for your hurt. Why is this so destructive? Because it leeches all sincerity out of the dynamic—boom, gone. Sincerity has been replaced by a disingenuous edge; the harder you both lean on that edge the further you get from sincerity. You also get cut—more hurt. And you are leaning into that edge hard right now.

    Humans know when they're being manipulative and being manipulated. It leaves an icky residue. Think of being a child, and batting pleading, watery eyes at a parent after you fail to clean your room. You know you're being crafty, even if that playground bully did mess with you at recess, and if you get the desired response—"Oh, baby, it's okay, come into my arms..."—you feel kind of gross. Yes, the arms around you feel good, but something is off. You respect yourself a little less, and respect your parent less too. Your parent also feels kind of gross, with the price of feeling like a loving parent coming with a ding to self-respect.

    And, in that, a system of support, affection, and love has become fueled by disrespect and insincerity. A system, right now, that you are doubling, tripling, and quadrupling down on with her. Bad coping mechanisms in her attaching onto bad coping mechanisms in you, validating each at the expense of your (and her) humanity.

    Imagine she was a guy you met 5 months ago while playing pool. Cool dude. You two like hanging, chatting sports and life. But one day, while playing pool, he gets a little worked up and punches you in the face. He apologizes—in tears—explaining that his father used to beat him up and now he has anger issues. What is your response? Is it to continue to invest in that friendship? Probably not. You feel for the dude, genuinely, but you like your jaw intact just as genuinely. You don't want to be hurt, so you back away from the friendship. That is all much more sincere and honest, respect-driven. You hope he gets better, truly, and you express that by getting better yourself.

    This is the same as that, or should be, except it's not. Sex and attraction exists at the edges, as do romantic hopes. That is self-interest. That energy inside you is potent with her, which she knows. You can pretend it's no longer a factor—"This is just who I am as a person—doesn't matter if we're dating"—but these aren't feelings that can be switched off. No, they can be suppressed, or channeled elsewhere—like, for instance, wanting to be a support beam and seek a proxy of romantic validation there. Which is insincere, unhealthy, providing just enough of a reward system to ensure that nothing evolves healthily and no one gets the help he or she needs.

    Same church, different pew, said ThatwasThen. Boom. I would take that seriously, and explore it. She is pressing a button in you that has deep roots, and when that button gets pressed you seem prone to leaving your more sincere self in the pursuit of sincere feelings and connections.

  9. #28
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    Originally Posted by ThatwasThen
    You are if she uses your "support" that she hasn't requested. You also are if she ends up not going to professional therapy because she has you as her soft place to land. You do her no favours in that case.

    She does NOT know how she needs it. You could be enabling her issues when you're not trained. To support her as she goes through therapy is one thing. To just support her in any way she needs is quite another.

    There's where I think you need your own therapy... You should protect yourself from someone who can ruin you emotionally, not stick around, try and fix them and take a chance at your well being being damaged. You've only dated her five months. Like I said, you're not married or in a long term pairing.

    Did you suggest she get herself to the ER or her family doctor for a referral to someone trained to help her through those? If you didn't then I have to say shame on you for not. She needs more than you being there for her to "lean on." Google White Knight Syndrome because I think it may apply simply because you've been caretaking (the dysfunction opposite of caregiving) your dysfunction parents for 20 years. Indeed! Where are her family? her friends? people that have been in her life more than 5 short months?

    Its the same church, just a different pew.

    You are an empty support system is she's not getting the professional help she needs. Kind and empathetic support should be a supplement to professional guidance and care... not the only thing she's using to calm herself. She needs to learn tools to self sooth and not rely on you to get her through her anxiety/angst so don't enable her with your good intentions. If her last therapist wasn't helpful then she needs to find herself another one that she can gel with. It takes more than a few sessions to get yourself over the hump of past trauma.
    There are some genuinely good nuggets in here, but you need to tone it down how you speak to me or it's best we don't at all. I'm not a child.

    It's literally been four days since that eye opening phone call and Rome wasn't built in that amount of time. As of the moment I am educating myself via videos and literature to better understand HOW to provide the proper support without being an enabler of the cycle. I will be attending a meeting to hear people speak in person regarding the matter as well. This is bigger than trying to win a girl back - I cannot speak to that enough. I completely missed the boat when we were dating, but I can be a better person about it today. If emotionally I find myself in a place where I cannot handle it, then I have to do what I have to do.

  10. #29
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    OP your pride is gonna end up causing you pain. You are so pumped out and determined to be this support mechanism you can't hear anything but your ego. We are trying to help. If you don't agree that's fine but no need to be aggressive.

  11. #30
    Platinum Member ThatwasThen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TimeToGrowUp
    There are some genuinely good nuggets in here, but you need to tone it down how you speak to me or it's best we don't at all. I'm not a child.
    Sorry if you don't like the words (or the tone they took on without voice inflection) I find your response to the " way I spoke to you" overly defensive however; you got/are getting the message, that's the main thing.

    It's literally been four days since that eye opening phone call and Rome wasn't built in that amount of time. As of the moment I am educating myself via videos and literature to better understand HOW to provide the proper support without being an enabler of the cycle. I will be attending a meeting to hear people speak in person regarding the matter as well.
    Or you could just refer her to a professional where hopefully she'll get the learned advice and guidance that she needs.

    This is bigger than trying to win a girl back - I cannot speak to that enough. I completely missed the boat when we were dating,
    I think you dodged a bullet rather than missed a boat.

    but I can be a better person about it today.
    Don't forget to be the better person to YOU first. Taking on her troubles isn't being good to you.

    If emotionally I find myself in a place where I cannot handle it, then I have to do what I have to do.
    It will be too late then, I'm afraid. Insidious sneaking up of emotional disturbance is how this pans out when you become addicted to the dynamic.
    Last edited by ThatwasThen; 10-24-2019 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Toned it down :D

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