who pays?

[btbt]

So have rules for who pays for the date changed?

 

Scenario:

First date with a guy met online, went for coffee. We each paid our own way, which made sense.

 

Second date with guy, went for dinner and drinks. Guy left the check sitting on the table for a long time then asked me if I wanted him to pay my share or have him pay. I said it didn't matter. He said that he would pay but did not want to offend me, so I said, no it doesn't offend me But I got the sense that he wouldn't have minded at all if I paid. Then, I paid for drinks, but guy made no gesture of, "no, no, let me do that."

 

Am I being old-fashioned to think that guys should pay on the first few dates? Why wouldn't they want to (outside of money issues -- he's very well-off, or outside of interest issues -- he keeps calling me for more dates).

 

Thanks for your opinions!

[rose2summer]

This guy is a major cheatwad.

 

What kind of guy asks you if you want him to pay?

 

He either does it or doesn't, not make a scene out of it.

 

I think the person who asked you out should pay, and on the first date, the guy should pay, then once you are a couple, you can switch back and forth.

 

But his tactics leave something to be desired.

 

I think he asked you that to test you, to see if you would either bend over and pay, helping his cheapwad pocket or because he was seeing if you are a golddigger because he is well-off.

 

Next time you go out, don't offer to pay at all and see what reaction that brings.

 

I had the same thing happen on my first date with my ex. The bill came and he didn't even offer to pay for it. I got frustrated then paid the bill, and then after I paid it, he says, oh I never saw the bill, let me pay for it. I said I had to go home. He called for another date, and I said no way, I am not a 24hr bank of america.

 

Hugs, Rose

[chai714]

Opinions on this will vary.

 

My opinion is that the guy should pay the first date but it's a kind gesture if the woman offers to pay her share. If we go to dinner then drinks and the woman pays for drinks without flinching, she's getting more points in my book.

 

p.s. the dating world has no rules. it's anarchy, which makes it exciting but dangerous.

[luvursmile]

I agree with you. I think the guy should pay for the first few dates. On the other hand, things have changed, and it is perfectly acceptable & PC for a woman to pay. Im kinda traditional though. I think, just out of courtesy, the guy should pay for the first few dates. We, as women, should offer to split the bill, at least. My perfect scenario would be to go to dinner with guy, have him pay, then I would pay for drinks or offer to treat him somewhere else for dessert or something like that.

 

So, no, i dont think you're being old fashioned.

[amtjrtcet]

On me and my b/f's first date we split it. Then for the next 4 or 5 dates he paid. And after that we take turns. We make about the same amount of $, so I think its fair that way. But as for the first few dates, yes I think the guy should pay.

[honeyspur]

Yes, this is no longer a set custom.

If the man paying is something you would enjoy, something that would make you feel loved and cared for, then go with it.

It's not a character flaw on his part - putting judgement on him is a mistake IMO.

This guy could be a good friend and you might want to steer things in that direction.

 

If you like the idea of paying once in awhile or splitting down the middle, then you might have found the perfect guy.

 

Go where your heart goes and if you are honest, this guy won't be too hurt if you just speak up one way or the other. Who knows...if you want him to pay....all you might have to do is ask....

[Batya33]

My opinion is that the first meeting via online is not an official date. It is nice if the guy pays, sure, but it is fine if you each pay your own way (another reason I suggest only doing coffee, as you did). I think the guy should offer to pay on the first few official dates. I think the woman should offer to pay her own way at least by the second official date and after the first few dates she should offer to treat or do something in kind like buy him a book or a CD he mentioned he liked.

 

Once you are dating steadily and it is understood that you will see each other regularly, I think the woman should do part of the asking and planning and treating. How that is divided should be up to what makes the couple comfortable.

 

In this case I think the guy handled the situation poorly. If he wanted to treat, he should have just picked up the check and done so. I understand some men are "concerned" about whether certain women might be "offended" by this but in this case I don't think that was his concern at all - he wanted to see if you would offer to pay your share or treat and then used the "I didn't want to offend you" as an excuse.

[spunkmaster]

I agree, on my and my BFs first date, we each paid our own way. After that, it was whoever asked who for the date that paid. Then once we became serious, we just took turns. Or if one of us is going thru a rough patch with money, the other one pays, and vice versa.

 

I don't think there are any set rules anymore, what with women becoming uber-independent and all. I think it kinda intimidates guys, and forces them out of traditional roles, so they are unsure of what to do. But in the OP's case, I think (if he really did have money, as she says) he was just checking for gold digger tendencies.

[btbt]

Hey, thanks everyone. Maybe he was checking for my gold-digger tendencies, but he knows what I do and that I'm not broke.

 

Okay, next scenario: he asks me to go see a show, which he already has tickets to. If there is dinner and/or drinks afterwards or before, do I volunteer to pay since he bought the tickets? And remember, he's always doing the asking.

 

And if you say that I shouldn't pay and I should wait and see what he does, do I just sit there and do nothing? That's so uncomfortable!

 

Okay, and finally, what are the reasons that a guy does not pay for dates -- I'm going to start another thread on this to get a list going. This should be interesting!

[luvursmile]

I think you should offer to pay for the drinks. Just ask him after the show, "Wanna go for a night cap?" Then you pay. If he says no, that he'd rather go for dinner, then he should pay.

[Day_Walker]

Opinions on this will vary.

 

My opinion is that the guy should pay the first date but it's a kind gesture if the woman offers to pay her share. If we go to dinner then drinks and the woman pays for drinks without flinching, she's getting more points in my book.

 

p.s. the dating world has no rules. it's anarchy, which makes it exciting but dangerous.

 

I have to agree, given my current situation where I am a student and I work part time. My preference is when a girl atleast makes an effort to pay or if I pay for dinner and she pays for the drinks. In my mind this is and will always be a test for women because I get annoyed by the old fashioned behaviors that women like to exhibit. This kind of old fashioned behavior is usually an indicator that she is old fashioned in other respects. As Chai714 said earlier any girl who makes an effort to pay gets more points in my book.

[shikashika]

i think who ever asks should pay... i've always had the guy pay on the first date... i'll offer, but they always refuse... fi you go out for a coffee or drinks later... then I say, "let me get you one drink"

 

once you've been dating for a while, i don't keep tabs on who pays anymore

[Batya33]

Hey, thanks everyone. Maybe he was checking for my gold-digger tendencies, but he knows what I do and that I'm not broke.

 

Okay, next scenario: he asks me to go see a show, which he already has tickets to. If there is dinner and/or drinks afterwards or before, do I volunteer to pay since he bought the tickets? And remember, he's always doing the asking.

 

And if you say that I shouldn't pay and I should wait and see what he does, do I just sit there and do nothing? That's so uncomfortable!

 

Okay, and finally, what are the reasons that a guy does not pay for dates -- I'm going to start another thread on this to get a list going. This should be interesting!

 

I would offer to treat to dinner or dessert depending on what you choose to do before or after the show. I would not offer to pay for the ticket or tickets. Or, I might reciprocate by buying tickets to another event in the next week or so.

[kryptik0]

Please excuse my language, but I must rant now. I am totally sick of dating women who expect me to pay all the time. Both me and them are just trying to get to know each other to see if things will work out, so why does the guy have to take the responsibility for paying for the dates before they become a couple. At the very least, the woman should offer to pay her half, and not just say it, mean it. What kind of a statement is "it doesn't matter who will pick up the tab" You either pick up the tab or offer to pay your part right after the bill arrives. Don't put your date into an awkward position of wondering if you're going to pay your half if he or she is not comfortable paying for the whole bill.

 

I don't think anyone has a right to expect their date to pay for them until you're exclusive or are being treated or something like that.

 

In past six months, I haven't met a single woman, who was willing to even ask if she should pay her share, let alone pick up the tab. And please before you start firing at me, let me clarify that all this is only in my head, I never say these things outloud. I always politely pick up the tab soon after it lands on the table. I have never asked any woman if she'd like to pay her half, no matter how high the bill was.

 

](*,) ](*,)

[kryptik0]

This guy is a major cheatwad.

I had the same thing happen on my first date with my ex. The bill came and he didn't even offer to pay for it. I got frustrated then paid the bill, and then after I paid it, he says, oh I never saw the bill, let me pay for it. I said I had to go home. He called for another date, and I said no way, I am not a 24hr bank of america.

 

Well yeah you're not the 24hr bank of america, but neither is the guy. Why didn't you offer to pay your half when the bill arrived. I get an impression that you would have been fine if he was the pay the entire bill, but if you had to do the same thing, you don't feel thats right. How convenient!

[btbt]

(Some) women expect men to pay on a date because that's what society has taught us -- men should be the breadwinner and be able to take care of a woman financially.

 

Of course this idea is totally outdated -- I'm not looking for a man for his money (though admittedly some women are).

 

I can only speak for myself, but the reason a red flag goes up when a guy is reluctant to pay is that it can be a signal a larger issue. For instance, in the last post, the guy's attitude is "what have you done for me lately?" So a woman might think that if a guy is going to be like that about something as trivial as a restaurant bill, what's going to his attitude in more serious relationship decisions? Sure, I may be reading too deeply into this, but it has been my experience that those who are tight with their wallet are also tight with their heart.

 

This also only reflects what's appealing to me in a guy. I'm not looking for someone to take care of my financially, but I am looking for someone who doesn't sweat the small stuff, which to me is a signal of how they will handle more important matters.

[kryptik0]

btbt, I have to disagree with you on this. I don't think its reasonable to judge a guy by whether or not he picked up the tab. Tell me how does this not apply to the woman. If I am seeing a woman who is not offering to pay her share, I may be inclined to think that I will be taken advantage of by her in future too.

[DN]

Sure, I may be reading too deeply into this, but it has been my experience that those who are tight with their wallet are also tight with their heart.

 

But does that same reasoning not apply to women?

[Teddy-Bear]

In my opinion, putting the weight of paying the bill when going out should not rest on the shoulders of the men....for years women have been fighting for equal rights (which im all for) but hell if they want em so bad then take it all not just the parts of it you prefer....if the women is able to pay her part of the bill (in the first few dates) the by all means do it....in todays world money is hard to come by and i for one will not pay for my girl just because she feels its the mans job....and she would get to save her money while i dip into my wallet...

[EvaGina]

yes, your old fashioned

 

I dno, I think whoever invites should pay. Apart from that, its just who gets it first.

I have paid for everything with the guy I have been dating recently, its not that he doesnt try, but I know that he is REALLY on the bones of his bum atm and I dont mind.

[Batya33]

But does that same reasoning not apply to women?

 

Yes it does, in the situation where the woman has asked out the man and then tries to avoid paying or otherwise acts in a "cheap" manner. A woman who is asked out by a man for a first date is permitted to assume he will pay since he asked and thereforeeee is not being "tight" by not paying or offering to pay. I think it is nice to sincerely offer to pay your way even on a first date but not doing so doesn't mean she is "tight" with her wallet.

[Aurian]

Myself, I think it is kinda sad that a woman demands equality, yet expects the guy to handle the paying. In olden days I would imagine that the woman didn't have much funds as she didn't work, but that is not usually the case anymore!

 

I think the woman should at least offer to pay her way (although if the guy pays for her, it would be much appreciated and taken as a sign of generosity) if its the two meeting up for lunch or coffee or something (early dates). If its something fancier, then whoever offered should pay. You want to take the other out to a hockey game or the theatre, you buy them. You can discuss splitting it beforehand, but no buying them and then demanding half back, or going to the venue and only paying for one! This goes for both sexes btw.

 

If its a big night out, and the guy has bought the tickets, I would like to split the night a bit by paying for dinner or the drinks.

 

I wouldn't want to freeload off someone, nor would I want to be taken advantage of myself. I would want to try keep things fair. Even if the guy made a lot more than me, I would still want to keep things on an even keel. However, if he invites me to Paris or something, I can't keep up with THAT, and I'll just buy the champagne

[Batya33]

So then what about all the women in the "olden days" (I assume you're talking about only 15 or 20 years ago - not "olden") that came from wealthy families or had trust funds or were supported by their parents - there are more sources of wealth than just income. (not that I ever had any other source other from work!)

 

I am entitled to equal pay for equal work under the laws of my country (and I am not a feminist). That entitlement has nothing to do with what people do in private with respect to dating, including me. I do feel entitled to the offer to be treated on at least the first few dates if the man asks me for those dates. Call it old fashioned, traditional, generous on the man's part, whatever. If he does not offer to treat on the first date - if he asked, and made the plan - I likely would not see him again unless he left his wallet home, had a situation like that, etc.

 

If I planned the activity and it was an expensive activity (expensive restaurant, concert, similar event) I would offer to pay. I don't consider a first meeting through on line a real date so I try to keep it to coffee - no real issue there with "treating" (and if he cannot afford to buy me a cup of coffee in general, then we proably should not be dating, same if he doesn't want to treat me to a cup of coffee - I am a very generous person and we wouldn't be compatible).

 

I typically offer to pay on date one depending on what it is (I think it is somewhat offensive, if the first real date is mostly free maybe with coffee to offer to pay for my $2 coffee - I wouldn't want someone to offer to pay for that, either if I asked). I always offer on every date that follows and I treat if I make the plan as I described above. I am surprised when the man easily accepts my offer on the first date.

 

When I am regularly dating someone, I like to take turns and usually it works out that the man treats more often (because I typically date men who are more on the old fashioned, conservative side and if they insist on that practice, are happy with that practice they are adults and I'm not going to have a war over it. That is how my boyfriend and I handle things. He would like to pay more often than I let him - and often that requires me running to the front of the line first to pay for tickets, buying tickets in advance, giving him cash for a vacation instead of a check because he will not deposit the check.

 

At work, I do the same work that everyone else does (and more than some but that's for another day!) and I shouldn't be differentiated under the law because I am a woman. If there are ever laws regulating payment for dating practices, I would abide by whatever those laws are, of course.

 

I don't think the practice of treating has anything to do with the woman's financial situation - it's a practice like holding open the door, offering to carry heavy packages, being the one to slide into a taxi first - that most of the men I have dated follow and probably follow more than I would like at times such as when we fight over the check in my relationship at times.

[Aurian]

True, there are other sources of wealth, but I guess my point was that a few decades ago, women were generally not self-supporting (the other sources of wealth you pointed out, Batya, were given to the woman, not earned). We did not have equality or the opportunity to be so. Although we are not as equal as men as far as salary goes just yet, we are a farther along than what it used to be.

 

I guess I think in the past, men were expected to be generous in order to show their dates that they had enough money to support a housewife staying at home and raising children. If a woman was asked to pay regularly, it would be an indication that he wouldn't be able to support her.

 

Now, women have their own source of income, so I think the issue of who pays has changed greatly. Some are traditionalists. Others insist on going Dutch. Finally, there are the shades of grey in between. If a guy offered to pay, then I would be appreciative because it would be like a gift or a sign of generosity. However, I would not automatically expect him to pay.

 

I don't think it is right for myself to do all the paying, nor to expect the guy to do all the paying. Somewhere loosely even feels right to me.

 

Similarly, I have no problem with having someone hold the door open for me or help me carry stuff. It is called respect or courtesy. I wouldn't let a door slam in a guy's face either, and if he let me in the car first, I would unlock his door for him.

[kryptik0]

Aurian,

 

Why can't all women think like you. Can I date you?