Dating a spanker.. Help please...

[Happy12]

Okay. I have been dating my girlfriend for about 6 months now. We dated back in high school. I am now 28. She is 25. We are in a very serious relationship. We get along great, for the most part. Political disagreements and things like that can be hard to put aside sometimes, but we seem to manage. We definitely love each other. We spend an amazing amount of time together, great sex life, have fun together, feel comfortable when we are together etc.

 

She has an 18 month old girl. I already lover her like my own. At first I was intimidated by this, but now I can't wait to spend time with her daughter. Luckily, her daughter seems to love me. We all have a blast together. Sadly, her real father is almost completely out of her life (may actually be a good thing).

 

Anyway, to the point now. My girlfriend smacks her daughter's hands quite frequently and sometimes quite hard. I have seen her hands turn red after numerous smacks to the hand. My girlfriend usually does this when the child is doing something dangerous (electrical outlets etc.), but she also smacks her hand, when her daughter smacks her (not knowing that it is wrong). In one instance, her daughter smacked her in the face while what appeared to be playing, and my girlfriend came back with a very light smack to her face.

 

I don't have a child and I can't imagine what it would be like to be a single mother. I also don't claim to be an expert on parenting. However, I am against smacking of the hands and spanking. I think there are other ways to discipline, especially with a toddler. It breaks my heart to see her cry when she is smacked and it seems like she doesn't know why she is being smacked. Sometimes she smacks her mom right back on the hand, and mom can't figure out why. The answer seems obvious to me. I usually leave the room or remain silent when this goes on, so I think she has a hint on where I stand on the issue. And obviously, I never lay a hand on her daughter. I tell her no and then distract her.

 

So...do I remain silent? Like I said, we are very serious. We even talk about having another child together one day, which brings up a problem. I don't have much say in how she disciplines her child, but if one day we have a child together, I will be totally against any form of spanking and will make it a point to find alternative ways to discipline the child. I think my girlfriend is a great parent, but this issue is one I feel strongly about and one that I consider when thinking about my future with her and her daughter.

 

Sorry for the rant. Any advice? Should I bring it up? If so, how? I don't want to offend her...

 

Thanks for reading...

[Beec]

I mean no offense by this, but it sounds very much to me like you are going to have big compatibility issues with this woman.

 

In most good relationships there are three levels of commonality. Common interests, so you can bond (things to talk about and do together); common values and a common view of how each of you fits into the relationship (seeing your roles the other sees them). You seem to missing out on the values aspects. The political discussions, those probably reflect each of your values. And the spanking issue, that's about values.

 

So who's values should change? Hers, and she accepts that what she does now is wrong? You won't get far with that line. You, and you act like you approve? Each of you probably thinks you have the right values. Who is right? I think the answer is you are not right for each other.

[ImThatGirl]

Happy12, I'd like to welcome you to the forum! Welcome!

 

I'd like to applaud the fact that you are asking for the opinion of many others rather than doing research (which would be biased,) or only talking to someone that may have your same opinion. Asking many people gives you a more well rounded perspective on the matter.

 

With that said..... I am a single parent of two children. Since you posted, I've been thinking about how you can discuss this with her.

 

First off, I agree, there are other means of discipline (that may or may not work better.) I think your opinion and perception of spanking should be softened a little. Reason: It is easy to say "I definitely won't do or allow that with my child." Until you have your own. Then many of those things go OUT the window.

 

Children react to different forms of discipline. Some child may learn better with spankings, some with time outs, some with help re-focusing. Ex: My children - spankings for the most part are ineffective. (They are 6.5 and 3.5.) We use time out or lose priveleges at my place most of the time. But I would "NEVER" judge someone else who uses spanking as discipline.

 

Since you have mentioned that the hand smacking is ineffective and she is only 18 months, I think the "time out" approach may actually be a helpful suggestion.

 

Now how to go about telling her....?

 

First off, maybe make it light conversation. The next time she smacks her daughter, and her daughter smacks back, take that opportunity to say "Whoooa... Maybe we should start trying time outs so she doesn't learn that hitting is okay." Don't use a reprimanding tone of voice. Use a considerate/compassionate tone of voice.

 

You have to make sure that you don't come accross as a know it all. If you come accross as a know it all, it will lead to resentment. Whatever you do, don't start the talk of why spanking should never happen and how terrible it is that she uses that form of discipline. Something about someone trying to be an expert when they've never had the experience. Enough to tick a mom off.

[Scout]

This is a tough one. On the one hand, you don't want to offend your girlfriend by interfering with and questioning her parenting. On the other hand...you have some serious opposing feelings to how she disciplines her child.

 

It seems to me I've heard that children that age don't have the cognitive abilities yet to understand certain things. And if their parents understood this, they wouldn't view the child as being willfully disobedient. Perhaps you could research this subject a bit and share it with your girlfriend. You could also research the subject in general of teaching children not to play with dangerous things in a way that doesn't involve spanking.

 

I'm not saying that an occasional swat on the rear isn't merited when a child is a bit older. But from what I understand, things like "time out" are much more effective over the long run, and also teach children patience. Spanking just makes them fearful and resentful, if done on a regular basis.

[Caterina]

Its her child, and she has the right to discipline her the way that she deems correct. You can raise the issue, but its ultimately her decision. Although, if you get married, she might want to compromise or meet in the middle. This could go a lot of ways. But, like a previous poster said, there are a lot of differences that you two might have to contend with once you take on the extra responsibility/commitment that is involved with furthering the relationship. I wish you the best and hope you can reach a good decision. Personally, protecting a child from going near dangerous things by punishing her that way particularly seems to make sense...it shows her that pain is near that area and children that young work more with what they are conditioned by instead of rebellion/curiosity.

[avman]

I think the whole reason the child is hitting her mother is because thats exactly what her mother is teaching her. She's 18 months old, so she imitates the behavior that she sees. Her mother hits her, so she hits her mother. To her, that seems like the way it should be.

 

You might mention this to your girlfriend that it seems she is imitating her and maybe alternate forms of discipline are more appropriate. Personally I very much oppose spanking as you do. Hopefully your girlfriend will be open to alternatives and the hitting back and forth will be stopped.

[chai714]

Happy,

 

Relationships don't thrive based on the sole element of love. Love is never the reason a relationship works. I understand you love her, but that's not why you're with her. You're with her because of the things in common you share together and you're with her because of how she makes you feel.

 

I don't believe your political philosophies or beliefs play any significant role in your relationship, unless you're a politician of course. I understand how certain aspects of politics reflect personal values, but I don't find politics in general to play any significant role in the success of a relationship.

 

As far as the way she disciplines her child - that's her call and unfortunately, you have little right to say how she raises her child. The only thing you can do is try to influence her (your gf) behavior, which would involve getting her to change the way she feels about striking a child. This wouldn't be a necessarily easy thing to do but I think it could be done to some degree.

[ImThatGirl]

The spanking thing is the hardest issue of all. It hurts me to watch a clueless 18 month old child get smacked. If we were to have our own kid own day, there would have to be some compromise, but I don't expect her to change how she disclipines her child. But can parents use different forms of punishment on two children living together???

 

 

You mentioned that the father is barely in the picture, right?

 

If your relationship progresses, her daughter should not be "her child." She should be "our child," just like any additional children born. And there should be no segregation between children. (Like one gets spankings and one doesn't.)

[Siriana]

But can parents use different forms of punishment on two children living together???

I think that such thing is a very bad idea.

[BellaDonna]

I think you need to tell her how you feel about this, but in a very gentle manner. Try not to be accusatory (i.e. avoid: YOU always do this, YOU'RE wrong, YOU won't raise our kid that way etc.) Instead you might want to approach it from a more casual standpoint. Example:

 

"You know how we've been talking about having a child one day? Well I think it's very important that parents are consistent in the way they discipline their children and that both parents use the same methods. I personally know for certain that I would not want to spank my child. What can WE do that would ensure that our child receives the same messages about discipline from both of us? I think it's also important that siblings are treated equally, so maybe we should start this now with (her daughter's name)"

 

If you're going to make a suggestion about eliminating the spanking, you have to offer her some kind of alternative to work with. The resources on this topic are endless:

 

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Hopefully your girlfriend will change this behavior before her child goes to preschool or gradeschool. She may regret it when she gets told by the teacher that her child is hitting other kids and seems to think it's "ok" socially.

 

Another thing that may be helpful to her: If she ever saw the drawings young children create of their families. Children that come from families who spank them usually draw the parent who spanks as mean and aggressive. Sometimes they even draw the parent hitting them. It's actually really sad to see these kind of drawings. I'm not sure where to find them- but I remember seeing many in child psychology courses when I was in college.

 

BellaDonna

[Caterina]

I think the whole reason the child is hitting her mother is because thats exactly what her mother is teaching her. She's 18 months old, so she imitates the behavior that she sees. Her mother hits her, so she hits her mother. To her, that seems like the way it should be.

 

You might mention this to your girlfriend that it seems she is imitating her and maybe alternate forms of discipline are more appropriate. Personally I very much oppose spanking as you do. Hopefully your girlfriend will be open to alternatives and the hitting back and forth will be stopped.

 

I disagree. I've seen plenty of children from homes where they don't believe in disciplining their children this way and their children exhibit that kind of hitting behaviour. Mostly this is behaviour that, if consistent, comes from a child who has not been properly disciplined by the parent in whatever form they discipline their children.

[AwdreeHpburn]

Hey Happy! welcome to ENA -

 

It is my personal opinion that you should broach the topic with your girlfriend, ESPECIALLY if you want to have kids someday.

 

In my opinion, it is imperative that you talk about those issues, discipline etc, before get into something that will be really hard to get out of.

 

As for her current situation, sheesh! I dunno. How do you think she would take a comment or a sit down talk? Would she respond well?

 

I would cry. I would personally lay on the water works. Grab up the crying child and cry right along with her. See if THAT appeals to her mother's sensitive side.... (I'm kidding) but it really does make me want to cry.

[avman]

I disagree. I've seen plenty of children from homes where they don't believe in disciplining their children this way and their children exhibit that kind of hitting behaviour.

 

But this child is 18 months old, not 5 years old. They've barely had time to be exposed to anything except their parents. And 18 month old children imitate. That's how they learn to talk and how to interact socially. If they see hitting and get hit, then that's what they learn.

 

Yes, as children get older some may hit out of frustration and anger. But as parents we need to teach them not to do that. And I don't see how hitting them when they are 18 months old achieves that objective.

[Beec]

I've seen children that age hit, and they have never seen their parents hit anyone. I don't buy that it has to be learned from someone.

 

I think proper behavior is taught and learned, and children, as well as aadults, will always test to find out the bounds of proper behavior.

[BellaDonna]

Hitting behavior and aggression in general are not always caused by having parents that hit/spank-(they could have learned if from somewhere else too- TV, other kids, etc)

 

However if you are spanking your children and hitting them regularly, you can sure bet that they will think it's ok to start slapping others. To them hitting is normal and acceptable behavior- they see mommy and daddy do it- you are increasing the likelihood that your kids will do that to others.

 

BellaDonna

[Happy12]

Looks like I'll have to deal with the spanking issue later. Half to get through the argument/misunderstanding we are having today first. What a day... ](*,)

[Caterina]

Hitting behavior and aggression in general are not always caused by having parents that hit/spank-(they could have learned if from somewhere else too- TV, other kids, etc)

 

However if you are spanking your children and hitting them regularly, you can sure bet that they will think it's ok to start slapping others. To them hitting is normal and acceptable behavior- they see mommy and daddy do it- you are increasing the likelihood that your kids will do that to others.

 

BellaDonna

 

That is not true. I was spanked as a child and never hit anyone. In fact, I was bullied...girls would gang up on me and hit me...not the other way around.

[BellaDonna]

I never said that ALL children that were spanked become hitters. There will always be exceptions to trends.

 

I just think that you increase the probability of your child becoming a hitter if you hit them.

 

Research can only speak of trends in populations of people. However I think that the evidence is loud and clear when you look at most research that has been done on this topic. Here's a huge study removed[/i]

 

In all countries, however, higher use of physical discipline was associated with more child aggression and anxiety.

 

Again, not every single person will fit in with the results, it's the big trends that are important.

 

BellaDonna

[Caterina]

I never said that ALL children that were spanked become hitters. There will always be exceptions to trends.

 

I just think that you increase the probability of your child becoming a hitter if you hit them.

 

Research can only speak of trends in populations of people. However I think that the evidence is loud and clear when you look at most research that has been done on this topic. link removed

 

Again, not every single person will fit in with the results, it's the big trends that are important.

 

BellaDonna

I think that it isn't a trend. I have to look up the stats

[BellaDonna]

I was speaking in casual conversation and not a scientific venue.

 

Not to be picky, but

 

However if you are spanking your children and hitting them regularly, you can sure bet that they will think it's ok to start slapping others. To them hitting is normal and acceptable behavior- they see mommy and daddy do it- you are increasing the likelihood that your kids will do that to others.

 

 

I said you can bet they will think it is "ok" to hit others, I did not say they would actually do it in all cases. I did end the statement with "you are increasing the likelihood" that they will do it to others. That's the part of my statment that had to do with action- and actually hitting another person.

 

Anyways, I don't want to take away from the posters orginal intent of this thread. But knowing what I know about research in child psychology regarding spanking, as a parent I would defintiely seek out other alternatives for discipline, and there are many other alternatives that will not increase the liklihood that your child will hit others.

 

BellaDonna

[BellaDonna]

Another well-respected study from a reviewed professional journal: link removed

 

With that in mind, if there are other alteratives for discipline, and knowing that you risk the chance of this, I would certainly not hit my kids.

 

BellaDonna

[avman]

Anyway, back to the OP's question.

 

Yes I think you should bring it up to her. This is a fundamental thing that you two will need to resolve before having your own kids. Otherwise it's going to cause some serious problems between you two.

 

Talk to her about it directly without being accusatory. Just tell her how you feel and why you feel the way that you do. Use a lot of "I feel" or "I believe" type statements so it's really about your beliefs and not a criticism of hers. And see where the conversation takes you.

[Happy12]

I'm scared to death I will offend her. I think I may wait until she smacks her daughter's hand and then the daughter smacks her back (like she almost always does). Then when my gf looks at me confused I can casually mention something to the affect of, "it looks like she is imitating you." We'll see, I don't have to bring it up to her immediately. Thank you all for your input.

[avman]

You can't be scared to bring up important issues just for the sake of keeping the peace. This is something you have to resolve one way or another. Yes be cautious, right for the right time, and choose your words carefully. But you will have to face this if you think this relationship will progress to the next step.

[melrich]

Of course you have to bring it up. To be honest I am not sure why this thread is even in the "spanking vs non spanking" territory. This baby is 18 months old. It is just moving from being a baby to being a toddler. It has no idea about right from wrong and for heavens sake this woman is spanking the baby for playing with an electrical switch!!! That is not bad behaviour, that is normal learning behaviour and it is not addressed by spanking whether you are in the spanking stable or the non-spanking stable.

 

This is way too young to be hitting a child. As someone else said, the only thing a child this age will learn from spanking is imititation. It is simply not old enough, its brain not developed enough to learn anything else.

 

It's hard to believe to me that there are people who are condoning this. This child would only just be learning to speak, it is doubtful at this age that it could put more than 3 or 4 words together.