A question for other women

[Celadon]

Hi, I've got a question for other women out there. I hope it doesn't sound too odd, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

 

Does anyone besides me sometimes feel uncomfortable knowing that guys are so "looks" oriented? I grew up pretty plain-looking, although my looks improved after high school. Maybe because my appearance never was that big of an issue for me (either negative or positive), I just haven't thought that much about it. But I have a friend who is not that pretty (according to standard Western culture) and she's fairly bitter that men won't give her a chance, despite her being a wonderful and talented person.

 

I just came back from yet another wedding in which the best man told the groom how lucky he was because his wife was beautiful. That was the first quality the best man mentioned: She's beautiful. Not, "You're a lucky man, because she is so caring - or - because she's a wonderful person."

 

I mean, you rarely hear the maid of honor giving a toast in which she says, "Jill, you're such a lucky woman because John is SO handsome!" Even if he *were*.

 

So I don't know where I'm going with this post exactly, other than to say it sometimes makes me uncomfortable knowing that the main reason a guy is showing interest in me (as opposed to my friend) is because of my looks. It seems so ... unrelated to who I am inside, as a person.

 

Anyone out there know what I mean?

[MacGyverRI]

An answer from a guy...

 

Men and Women alike are looks orientated and I find women are worse about it and can be more cruel at times.

 

Makeovers work, self pity doesn't.

[doyathink]

yeah I think it goes both ways as Mac pointed out. Ppl can be shallow.

[Slagar]

Another guy's opinion (because, I know you're dying for it ):

Regarding the remark at the wedding... a large part of the wedding is based around looking great for the day. So a remark on how beautiful she is fits in nicely. Also because there is a large amount of organisation and time put into it, the bride will typically stand out a lot more than on a typical day, which also brings forth the remark.

 

But I see what you're saying. However, I can assure you, not all guys are like that

Personally, I am similar to yourself in that I have never worried too much about my looks, or the looks of the girls that I date. It's what is inside that is very much what matters to me most. That said, looking good physically *might* help with initial attraction for most people (for me, an overly "attractive" person puts me off)... I'm sure it's no different as for yourself.

 

If you were in a bar, and you're up to the task of approaching someone... aren't the chances higher that you'll approach the more attractive guy?

 

It largely depends on the person in question. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't think men and women are so different as you may think

[Clementine orange]

Face it, we exist in a shallow world. Ever watch TV? Everybody is beautiful. Even if a character in a show or movie is written as plain then they are still pretty attractive. There is a reason for this.

 

Do you have any art in your house - paintings, photographs etc hanging on the wall? Is it nice art, is it pleasant to look at? Pictures of pretty flowers or majestic mountains or cute little animals? Probably. Humans like to look at what is pleasing to the eye. It's the human condition.

 

Men and women are the same - this is not a guy affliction. The only consonsolation is if the guy is homely then if he has money than he can still "win".

[Clementine orange]

One more thing...and this is on a personal ranting/complaining bent (from a guy)

 

The following is a generalization but like most generalizations they are generally true

The really pretty girls often have obnoxious personalities - this is either from their extreme sense of entitlement or from being hit on all the time.

The really plain girls have shattered self esteem, are awkward, shy and unable to cope with any kind of male attention

 

The best kind are ones that are pretty but don't know it yet or have an inner beauty and poise. The extremes are always problematic.

[Juliana]

Does it bother me that guys are all about looks? No. Guys that are all about looks (and they very much do exist) are mentally ill. So I don't want to have anything to do with them. It's fascinating to talk to them though, because they will often discuss with me exactly what their thought process was in either accepting or eliminating me as a potential partner; what's fascinating is that it never crosses their minds that I may not want to date them, whether or not they want me. I always find that interesting.

 

Likewise, men who pursue me simply because I am not beautiful (and I don't believe I am), and tell me this, are also interesting, because they're so very, very creepy. Their idea seems to be that I will be so desperate for approval and attention, that I will welcome their company inspite of the fact that they do not think I am "as good as" more attractive girls. They are incredibly cold-blooded, and frankly, more frightening than the guys who manage to convince themselves I'm pretty enough to not actually embarrass them in public.

 

Then there is a whole subset of guys who are attracted to me because of some fluke of their psychology and my looks; the narcissists who find anyone who looks like them (colouring, height, build) attractive. They're strange because it's like they're having a relationship with my physical self without ever meeting the person who wears the body.

 

I've had men ask me how they can get close to my extremely pretty friends -- which makes me laugh, because some of those friends have mental illnesses and addiction problems that will make their lives an intolerable hell, but whatever floats your boat, buddy. They're nice girls, but you'll never find that out, because they'll know you're using them, and then watch out.

 

The men I like are intelligent, funny, gentle, loyal -- and then there's my husband, who from the first moment he met me, seems to have thought I was beautiful, and continues to think it to this day. Other than that, however, he's a very smart guy, so I let that bit of foolishness pass.

[Batya33]

I have thought of and been concerned about the exact same thing down to also being at my friend's wedding (she IS beautiful - model type) where her new husband chose "beautiful" as the first quality and his focus during his speech.

 

I kind of accept as a fact of life that men are more visual than women. I do not want to be with someone where my looks are "the" focus and believe I can usually tell if that is the issue. The man's looks are not "my" focus as I don't believe attraction and chemistry have that much to do with physical features.

[Baby Carrot]

Maybe the best man was just being playful, you didn't mentioned the tone he used. Did he say it on the toast?

 

I could totally tell a girlfriend at her wedding "Hey, you lucky biatch, your man is gorgeous, does he have a brother? ", there's really no biggie. I think is implied that if she's marrying him, is because he has other non visible qualities, not only because he's handsome, she knows it, I know it, he knows it.

 

I think saddly, many of us are all too damn looks oriented. We have such high standars and we're all really narcisistic at some point. The thought of dating/being seen with someone "ugly" whatever that means is creepy, isn't it? Who fantasizes with being seen in public with someone that is not exactly a beauty?

 

Beauty is a powerful thing. It must be wrong to be shallow, but we're all like that to some degree, it's a fact.

 

But at some point, you learn to get over it. And see further.

 

If guys were really THAT shallow, only beauties would be married and we wouldn't be dealing with overpopulation because they wouldn't stick their weewees in plainlooked women.

[melrich]

knowing that the main reason a guy is showing interest in me (as opposed to my friend) is because of my looks.

 

If that is what you are experiencing it is sad. You need to find a new circle of men to hang out with.

 

Just like women, looks are but one part of the equation for most men. Of course there will always be members of both genders for whom physical appearance is the main priority.

[Day_Walker]

I feel that looks are always going to be an issue whether you are male or female, I have yet to meet a person who didnt have a physical preference for a person they are interested in. I agree with you that it is sad that some men and women place an extremely high importance on physical attractiveness but you also have to realize that might be all that person has to offer. Those men and women are content with finding an attractive mate and will deal with whatever else. Is that superficial, of course it is but that is the choice that they have made.

[Celadon]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. All fair points, and of course women gravitate towards good-looking men too. I'd respectively argue that the degree is different though between men and women, at least judging from the comments of my men and women friends -- and how the first criteria the guys have is whether she's pretty. Yeah, maybe I need new friends as someone said, but I have to believe they're not THAT unusual in their opinions.

 

And sure, shallowness runs rampant in our world. No argument there!

 

Does it bother me that guys are all about looks? No. Guys that are all about looks (and they very much do exist) are mentally ill. So I don't want to have anything to do with them. It's fascinating to talk to them though, because they will often discuss with me exactly what their thought process was in either accepting or eliminating me as a potential partner; what's fascinating is that it never crosses their minds that I may not want to date them, whether or not they want me. I always find that interesting.

 

You said that so well, Juliana! It's the weird feeling knowing the main reason the person's interested in you is because of something like looks, and that the reason appears to be good enough to them for you two to have a relationship.

[itsallgrand]

Well, I ditto what Melrich said. If you encountering a lot of that nastiness, then be on the lookout for different sorts.

 

It is saddening sometimes to me, and I do know what you mean. This is only my experience - but men who have a few years on them generally grow out of the extreme version of it. Not all, of course, but as a guy gets older, it seems that this sort of issue is less nagging and there are more men to be found who understand where visuals go as far as priorities of a partner.

 

For example, at 21 and around guys that age, at a beach, with my friend who is overweight, yes, I did get more attention in my bikini than she did. And some of the results were quite sickening in a certain regard. My friend is very pretty, and a beautiful person. She just doesn't 'fit the typical mold' because she isn't thin. If you start out believing people have all developed a certain level of awareness of appearances , such stuff can be hard to digest.

 

Stuff like that would discourage me, and make me feel down, but it doesn't really anymore. Whoever you are and whatever you look like: you are fully equipped to weed out the duds from the better ones. If that makes any sense at all...

 

Also, sometimes I feel *tired* knowing that men are more visual than women. I believe they are, it is debatable.

It is just so much work sometimes to bridge the largely visual style of looking at the world, versus my own more less visually orientated way. I honestly do not care much about looks...the feel of a body, what pumps through his heart, smell, mind, sounds, Yes yes! , but how he looks *shrug* not a big deal to me all in all.

Take away one of my senses I would choose sight.

 

Just knowing that someone is watching you and processing that information as a high priority of functioning...i dunno...it makes me a little paranoid sometimes. lol. Paranoid that my image is not pleasing, even though it is pleasing to me. Paranoid of the thought processes, what you thinking bout?

 

It's silly, it really all is in the end. Think of how many women becomes literally OBSESSED with their image and looks. It leads to mental decay, illness, suffering.

Ain't worth it just because there are a few folks out there who are strongly visually orientated and look for beauty there first. That path leads to decadence and decay if it is not balanced.

 

But, yeah, I know I am rambling, but I do recall certain statements from slightly younger days that burned into my memory because they just left me thinking "WAAAHH?? What in the world does that matter to what is going on?"

Like a guy talking about his gf and the first thing out of his mouth is 'she is gorgeous'.

(who cares? what is she like?)

Or the uncle who praises the young guy "way to go! How'd a guy like you manage to get a hot girl like her?"

 

It's all junk, it's babble, don't listen to 'em. You decide if you want to live your life through a camera lense or not.

[someguy69]

I'm going to have to say that woman are far, far more guilty of being shallow than men are.

 

While men may on occasion use physical appearance as the initial interest gauge in the order of fitness, pretty face and extras (i.e. large breasts, etc), it is certainly not the most important factor for most men.

 

Women, on the other hand, use a similar intial interest gauge, but with far more shallow criteria involved. They also care greatly about physical appearance, but it's far more selective and will include everything about you from head to toe. How many men will avoid a women because they don't like their shoes? Zero.

 

Women go beyond raw physical appearance and toss in a variety of checks to gauge affluence. They don't just want a good looking guy, they want a good looking guy who dresses well, is well groomed, appears to have a fat paycheque, and who exudes confidence and charisma. If a woman exhibited all these traits, no man would go near her.

 

Find a woman who says that she actually seeks out the shy, quiet guy in the corner who gives her the occasional shy glance, and I'll call her a very rare breed or perhaps a liar

 

For all the women who keep complaining that they keep dating the same jerks over and over again, I say that it's your own fault for always going after the same type of guy -- that is the ones whose only goal is to sleep with you, and who will say anything to get you in bed, and are particularly good at it because that is where all their energy is focused.

 

The smooth well-dressed, well-spoken operator at the singles bar is there just to take pretty girls home to sleep with, and nothing more. As long as he fits your criteria, he's the guy who you're going to keep falling for -- and also complaining that he only cares about looks.

 

Did you stop to think that maybe your problems with shallow guys come from being shallow yourself?

[someguy69]

For example, at 21 and around guys that age, at a beach, with my friend who is overweight, yes, I did get more attention in my bikini than she did. And some of the results were quite sickening in a certain regard. My friend is very pretty, and a beautiful person. She just doesn't 'fit the typical mold' because she isn't thin. If you start out believing people have all developed a certain level of awareness of appearances, such stuff can be hard to digest.

 

You got more attention than she did, but you seem to imply she got some attention. Maybe the men attracted to her are less plentiful at the beach than the men attracted to you? Maybe the men attracted to her are less confident than the men attracted to you?

 

I invite you to ask the overweight man how much attention he receives at the beach, and you will likely find that he receives less positive attention than your overweight friend.

[notalone_user]

I think a big part of it is due to media. For me there is a big difference between being beautiful and being hot. I think most of the girls can become hot by putting lots of makeup and wearing something which makes them hot. But that doesnt make them beautiful. Pamela Anderson is hot, but she aint beautiful. Lady Diana was beautiful, but no hot... at least for me.