To pay or not to pay?

[Mavis VDSande]

Hi all,

 

I have this bugging question and I thought you'd be able to help me! Should the guy ALWAYS pay when taking you out when dating? Should he always be the one to wine and dine you and chase you?

 

This is really bugging me because I've recently started seeing my ex again (of a 3 yr rels). And sometimes when we eat out, we split the bill etc. All I hear from my housemates is that he's not "man enough" and he "should always pay" and "I should drop him because he obviously doing things wrong".

 

THIS IS DRIVING ME CRAZY! ](*,)

 

I don't understand why it should be an issue. Is it? Are my housemates just being superficial? They always seem to find guys that go all the way, pick up them via taxis, go to expensive restaurants etc. Am I going mad??!

 

WHAT HAPPENED TO EQUALITY?

 

Your thoughts are warmly welcome!

 

Thanks,

 

MvdS x

[rose2summer]

Well, I think expecting a man to pay is expecting a free meal ticket.

 

It is not his obligation and is very stereotypical that your housemates think that way.

 

If he decides to wine and dine you great, if not, you need to pick up your half which is fair, either through splitting it Dutch style or taking turns treating each other.

 

I have seen relationships where the guy pays for everything, and wow, I would love that too, but lets be realistic, this is the year 2006, and women are no longer considered unequal to men, so we have to accept it and the changes that came with it.

 

But if you do find a man who does pay for all, make sure he has a brother, and let me know, lol, j/k

 

Hugs, Rose

[RayKay]

No, I think that it is only considerate, independent and fair to share the cost. Really, if you think of it, how fair is it for the guy to always pay just because he is the guy? Especially taking into account the fact that these days women also make their own incomes, it should not be expected that his income should be used on you too!

 

Sure, there are men and women out there whom do still stick to this, but in my experience this sense of imbalance also is apparent in the rest of their relationships too, and seems to cause other issues.

 

I prefer the taking turns approach, treating one another.

 

After all, shouldn't you be together for the enjoyment of being together, not because you can get a "free ride"?

[annie24]

yeah, I gotta agree with the other ladies here.... I think taking turns is the way to go. yeah, it would be nice if someone wants to pay for us all the time, but yeah, the olden days are thankfully over, and now we have our own salaries and jobs... men used to take women out for everything back when women did not work outside the house. so, women couldn't actually take men out!

 

do you want to get back together with this guy?

[vermilion]

If you want him to respect you, you need to pay for yourself. It shows you're independent and don't need anyone to take care of you. I don't expect anyone to pay for me and sometimes will pay for him.

 

Sounds weird that your friends look down on him for not always paying.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I believe in paying for my part of the meal, usually its not half because I don't eat much. Some guys insist, but I prefer to pay my own way.

[Lion-Guy]

I think at first it is ok for the guy to pay....but as time goes on and you are in a long term relationship sliting or trading off is better. That way it shows him you are independent and don't need to rely on him financially.

[BBHFutureAllAmerican]

i don't think the guy HAS to pay but i CHOOSE to pay when me and my gf go out so i think it's just a way for him to say thanks for going out with me tonight

[robowarrior]

Its fairly easy, offer to pay, if he reclines and pays for it himself great, if not great too, because that means you are also willing to contribute to the relationship. This because a relationship is all about giving and receiving love, the money is no real issue , but it is for your shallow materialistical friends. Don't let it get to you, you decide what is best for your own good.

[DN]

In my experience guys who marry women who expected him to pay for all the dates before the marriage would often find themselves paying her even larger sums of money after a divorce. Not always of course but enough to make it a red flag issue.

[rose2summer]

Now let's turn the tables here, as this has happened to me before, since in the past, I had a greater income than the men I dated.

 

If a guy doesn't offer to pay at dinner, and expects you to, what do you do then?

 

How is it any different than expecting him to pay?

[Honey Pumpkin]

I always try really hard to pay - I think it's awful to expect the guy to pay all the time! It's nice that he tries, but there are ways of paying. You just have to be really determined!

 

Do you know something as well? Guys I really like seem to like the fact that I don't take them for granted. If he does buy me dinner, I don't fight about it after offering a couple of times, because that's not great either, and it's good to accept someone's generosity with grace and thanks. But I would buy the next meal, or the cinema/theatre tickets, or something.

 

I like generous people - I try to be generous myself. I think someone who is mean with you with money may well be mean with you with other things. I want to be with someone who likes to give and receive: in every sense! And I think the money thing is possibly a reflection of attitudes generally, including sex.

 

Just a thought!

[Lion-Guy]

That is just plain odd. I don't know any guys that would do that unless they were treated poorly by their date and wanted to get the heck out of there.

 

 

Now let's turn the tables here, as this has happened to me before, since in the past, I had a greater income than the men I dated.

 

If a guy doesn't offer to pay at dinner, and expects you to, what do you do then?

 

How is it any different than expecting him to pay?

[rose2summer]

That is just plain odd. I don't know any guys that would do that unless they were treated poorly by their date and wanted to get the heck out of there.

 

No, I was very nice and cordial, he just pretended not to notice the bill and then after it was paid, said, oh, did the bill come, lol.

 

I have gotten the, oh, I have a sugar momma now.

 

So I think it goes both ways, some women will expect men to pay if the man makes more money and some men will expect the women to pay if she makes more money.

 

I think everyone should just agree to pay their own and if they cannot afford it, then say, let's eat at mcdonald's instead, since I am on a low budget.

[DN]

Now let's turn the tables here, as this has happened to me before, since in the past, I had a greater income than the men I dated.

 

If a guy doesn't offer to pay at dinner, and expects you to, what do you do then?

 

How is it any different than expecting him to pay?

 

A good rule for the first date is the person who asks pays - always assuming that women do their fair share of asking out.

 

But to answer your question - if it is an issue for you then pay the bill and never see him/her again.

[renaissancewoman101]

I usually like to take turns if I go out with a guy. Like I pay one time and he pay the next time. I dont like a guy to pay for me all the time because it makes me feel obligated to him and uncomfortable. I like paying for a guy sometimes, esp if I like the guy a lot. It is my way of showing that I dig him.

[rose2summer]

A good rule for the first date is the person who asks pays - always assuming that women do their fair share of asking out.

But to answer your question - if it is an issue for you then pay the bill and never see him/her again.

 

Agreed. Pay and run out the back door.

[Batya33]

I expect a guy to offer to pay on the first few dates unless we are doing something unusually expensive or that I suggested we do - so if he is getting tickets to a concert or theater I will offer to pay for dinner or if I want to go to a particularly expensive restaurant or other event like a benefit I will offer to treat and/or buy the tickets to the event and not let him pay me back or chip in, etc. With few exceptions, I would not see a man a second time who at least didn't offer to treat on the first date whether it is drinks, dinner, etc. Going forward it is a couple by couple decision. In my relationship - a bit over a year - my bf is very traditional, he offers to pay 99% of the time, he profusely insists 90% of the time where he would be hurt/offended if I rejected his offer.

 

In all, he treats more than half the time, and the rest of the time either I treat or we take turns or do partial treating (I will get the movie tickets, he will get dinner, etc). If we go to a wedding or other event where it requires a gift, if it is my friends I buy the gift on behalf of both of us and vice versa. If I want to take a taxi and he doesn't I insist on paying for the taxi. Given his insistence on treating the majority of the time, I buy him gifts, cook him meals, take care of his laundry (which I send out - not cheap!), etc.

 

It works very well for us and I am not saying this because he treats more often - if it were 50/50 with us taking turns I would be totally fine with that too, but that wouldn't work for him. I don't believe in telling him what to do with his money - he is an adult, he knows I don't care how much/how often he treats, that I don't expect to go to expensive restaurants/events on any regular basis, etc.

 

In general I do not think a man has to treat the way my bf does BUT I am not a fan of splitting the bill on a regular basis as opposed to taking turns - I find splitting to be too impersonal and inconsistent with a romantic relationship. With taking turns even if it is not always precisely "even" it gives both people a chance to treat and it has a nice feel of "trust" as in "I trust you not to take advantage of me."

[lolz]

In my opinion if the guy is really interested in a girl he will definitely offer to pay. It's just something I've learned from my experience.

[FifthLine]

In my relationship - a bit over a year - my bf is very traditional, he offers to pay 99% of the time, he profusely insists 90% of the time where he would be hurt/offended if I rejected his offer.

However - you could also profusely insist that you pay your way because you don't think it fair to take advantage of his traditional ways and that you would be embarrassed to not share the cost of dating. After all, it doesn't have to be his way all the time and you could also be hurt and offended if he insists.

[kryptik0]

My opinion: NO!!!!!!!

 

In today's world of man woman equality, both sexes should pick up the tab equally often. I dont see what is so manly about paying the lady's bill. She should be able to do the same for the man just as often. It's only fair. We dont make a gazillion dollars to take such a responsibility. If someone does, thats a different story.

[Batya33]

My opinion: NO!!!!!!!

 

In today's world of man woman equality, both sexes should pick up the tab equally often. I dont see what is so manly about paying the lady's bill. She should be able to do the same for the man just as often. It's only fair. We dont make a gazillion dollars to take such a responsibility. If someone does, thats a different story.

 

I don't believe in equating equality in the work place with equality in the romantic sphere. Just because I expect equal work for equal pay doesn't mean that gender roles in dating have to be consistent - apples and oranges. And, since I often have made more than the men I date I would be offended if it was presumed that thereforeeee I should pick up the bill more often. As far as fairness - fairness is what the couple decides is fair - for some that may mean splitting the bill, for others not. This is opposed to the public world of business where wihout consistent rules about equal pay for equal work, the economy can't run smoothly.

[FifthLine]

I don't believe in equating equality in the work place with equality in the romantic sphere. Just because I expect equal work for equal pay doesn't mean that gender roles in dating have to be consistent - apples and oranges. And, since I often have made more than the men I date I would be offended if it was presumed that thereforeeee I should pick up the bill more often.

Nice, but convenient, distinction. The incomes should be the same but the expenditures on the fruit are gender based.

[kryptik0]

Just because I expect equal work for equal pay doesn't mean that gender roles in dating have to be consistent - apples and oranges. And, since I often have made more than the men I date I would be offended if it was presumed that thereforeeee I should pick up the bill more often.

 

I did not say that whoever makes more money should pick up the tab more often. You misread me. I was saying both parties should pick up tabs more often. Of course once a relationship develops and gets serious, the rules will be relaxed obviously. But until then its only fair that everyone pays equally. I did not make any assumptions based on who makes how much.

 

+1 What Fifthline said!!!

[Batya33]

Nice, but convenient, distinction. The incomes should be the same but the expenditures on the fruit are gender based.

 

But the fruit is in the private sphere and the incomes are based on the public sphere - that is my distinction. So, since women who date might get "subsidized" more often for entertainment/meals means that all women do not have a right to demand equal pay for equal work? That presumes that all women get this so-called "fruit" you're referring to.

 

Not "convenient" in the sense that I have no issue paying my way or being an equal contributor. I do believe in traditional gender roles when it comes to the early stages of dating - the man does most of the asking, contacting and planning - and likely with certain exceptions, treating for the first few dates. I personally don't care if those dates are expensive dinners, going to listen to a free concert, wandering around art galleries, etc.

 

I cannot stand cheapness so whatever it is we decide to do I want him to be generous - he should offer to pay for my $2 coffee or, if he chose an expensive restaurant, he should offer to pay for my meal on the first date. If I'm asked where I prefer to go I never choose an expensive restaurant because I want him to feel comfortable.

 

If I did the asking I would also pay. I never date, and never have dated for the "free" meals - I would much prefer to go out alone, with good friends or not at all then be on a date at an expensive restaurant with a man who is rude, overly distant, etc. That is painful, I lose my appetite and I associate the restaurant with the negative experience. Who pays is never a factor in my deciding whether to date or not, but if a man is cheap, or if a friend is cheap that might very well be a factor in whether I want to continue dating or continue a friendship. (Cheap does not mean what restaurants he takes me to or activities but whether he is generous in general with his money when it comes to his friends, family, charities, and yes, me). I am a very generous person and I feel I deserve generosity in return.

 

Perhaps some day things will be different - men will insist on women paying their own way and that will become the norm. But I don't think it will have anything to do with equal pay for equal work and it shouldn't.