Is it just me?

[joeG]

I'm not writing this to hurt anybodys feelings, or to come accross as some ignorant jerk. But reading through some of these posts, truly makes me sick to my stomache, and I find it really hard to sympathize with 99% of the people on here talking about how they're going to "End it".

 

We ALL deal with hard times, every single day. So what makes you so special? Life is a struggle each and everyday, granted some of us have gone through a lot more than others, but that is what makes us who we are. Iv'e lost a handfull of childhood friends to self destruction, drugs, suicide. My own brother, who was the high school jock, most popular kid in school, all the friends in the world, became overly depressed at the age of 23, and I dont think he to this day even knows why. He started cutting himself, and hid all of this from everyone, it took my mother walking in on him to realize something was wrong. And this grown man, who Iv'e never seen shed a tear, bawled like a baby, saying he was just sick of life.

 

He got help, and a year later he's slowly turning back into himself. He was diagnosed with bi polarism, and still has his "days", but he's faught to get where he is, and I look up to him for that.

 

Not only is suicide EXTREMELY selfish, it just goes to show how easily you give up. Since when are the best things in life not WORTH the struggle? You find your own happiness. Become your own person, and quit looking for the easy way out. Yeah people will mourn your death, but guess what months, years, decades will pass, and you will be a faded memory. People WILL move on with their lives.

 

It's the people that truly ASK for help, instead of saying things like "Tell me the easiest way to do it" that are the strong ones here. No matter how tough your life is, what you're going through, there is always someone out there willing to listen, willing to help. So quit looking for the easy way out.

[avman]

While I understand your point of view and there is validity to some of what you say, I must comment that until you have been in the throes of a deep depression and felt suicidal yourself then you really can't understand what it is like.

 

I am not condoning suicide, don't get me wrong. I will do anything I can to try to talk a person out of it and try to get them on the path to healing. But I do understand when you get to that point that you are in so much pain that you really would do anything to make it stop.

 

I do not believe someone who is suicidal wants to die. What they want is for the pain to stop. If they felt there was another way to get rid of their pain and cope with what they are feeling they would do it. But they are at the point where they feel they have already tried everything, nothing works, and all they see is the pain continuing indefinitely for them. Their mind has refused to let them consider other alternatives and so they start that downward spiral.

 

Calling them cowards, taking the easy way out, etc does not help these people. Those words willl simply reinforce their belief that they are worthless already and nobody cares.

 

You have to give them a path to relieve their pain and then they will listen to you. Take them by the hand, guide them on the path out of that darkness they are in, and they will not kill themselves.

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

I certainly agree with you on some levels.

 

You are absolutely right. To cite my own personal experience, I know I'm Nothing Special. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it's my nothing-specialness which fuels my depression. I know I'm just another number/cog in the machine, and that depresses me intensely. It makes the struggle all the more meaningless.

 

But avman speaks very wisely...it is the very NATURE of depression that means you CAN'T just pick yourself up, trundle along and live a normal life. That's why depression is the problem it is.

 

On this board, you can never tell the attention-seekers from the genuinely in pain, but if you are threatening to kill yourself for attention, you need help anyway.

 

From this logic, I see all posters in need of help.

 

Depression is...an absolute epidemic, and absolute hell. It's horribly common and is much more than encountering everyday struggles of life. When depressed, I do not HAVE everyday struggles of life, I notice nothing but the sheer void inside me.

[joeG]

First off, I'd like to say what's up to my fellow Minnesotan Avman. Grew up in the cities, just moved out west last year, thinking about moving home, missing it like crazy.

 

I understand where you both are coming from. I myself have never been in a "deep" depression, but it runs like water in my family. Bi polarism/Manic depression on both sides, I'm either really good at turning off my extreme emotions, or just very fortunate.

 

Iv'e lost two people from my past to suicide. And in both cases, you heard it once "I want to kill myself", and they did. I personally get offended when people sit on these sites for months, insisting they're going to kill themselves. And 9 out of 10 times, more like 9 in a half, don't. Instead, they soak up the attention they are seeking, what is that doing? This "attention" is coming from complete strangers.

 

If you're THAT depressed, I agree you need serious help. You need to get off this website and seek out professional help.

 

Nothing will change my mind about "giving up on yourself". I have been through struggles my whole life (nothing I wish to share here). I'm not trying to come off as "I can do it, so can you", I realize not everyone has the strength to pull themselves together. I sat in couseling offices ages 13-16, having counselors INSIST I was suicidal, because of what I was going through.

 

I have people close to my heart who have been pulled through the dirt their whole intire life, but they fight. People are taken out of this world everyday, that WANT to be here. You're only given one life, that we know of, make the best of it.

 

If I came off rude, and incosiderate, I really apologise. Alls I'm saying is, we can't pick and chose where we come from. We didn't have the choice of how we grew up. But we CAN decide on how to live our futures. Depression is something people hold onto. Because for a lot of people, that's the only feeling they know. Once you learn to let go, things will get better.

[AwdreeHpburn]

Hey JoeG - I'm also in MN... (yay!!!)

 

I just wanted to say, that I agree with you too. Mostly.

 

I think to myself sometimes...why say it.

 

But the reason they say it IS to get attention. The attention they feel they are lacking and desparately need.

 

You don't tell someone on the edge, "either do it or stop saying it." Because 9 out of 10 times (or more like 9 1/2) they're only saying it so you'll talk them off. Don't be the guy that ignores it or helps them over.

 

We CAN decide our futures, but sometimes, some of us need a reminder of that, some support, a pep talk or just a hand to help us down from the ledge....know what I mean?

[itsallgrand]

First I'd like to say that I strongly agree with Ta_ree_saw's last post.

 

Then I'd like to say that I understand your point of view, Joe, and understand the anger too.

 

Sometimes I get angry when I see or hear messages on this portion of the forum. I try not to post at those times to anyone who is in the middle of the struggle bc I know it wouldn't help. Still, I have that feeling too sometimes.

 

Especially if you have experienced being on the supportive end, someone being down and wanting to end it all, in your real life. Because you know how it feels to be there loving someone and totally willing to offer support/love on all levels: and they do not see it, they can not hear it, they can not reach out to you.

 

It hurts. It hurts everyone when one guy is down.

 

And it can make for a lot of anger...because we need these people too, and they are not 'there'. They are threatening to leave us.

 

Certainly can understand both positions in this deal. It all sucks.

[Spugly Fuglet]

For me I dont think whos on the other end of the post, they could a dog for all I know "In cyberspace no one knows your a dog" etc, but I know that for each poster there are 100s who just look and read to them any one of them that post real or not my be there post, and what is said to that post will be said to them.

 

But I also believe 99% of posts are real

[joeG]

You believe 99% of the posts are real, in this section?

 

Don't get me wrong, I know people are grieving, people are depressed, but he honest with yourself.

 

I honestly believe, people will "seek out help" on here, and once they get the "Oh no, dont do it" "You will be missed, let me help!", they smile, and move on. They either, won't post again. Or will make another account.

 

Lets be real.

[Fallout]

How do you know most are fake ? You yourself know at least 3 people that went through it...so there must be alot of them in the world.

 

And uhmm...avman nailed it : you haven't been there don't talk about it. Also, life might be a struggle with up and downs etc., but when every day is a down for (insert appropiate time period here) you being to lose hope.

[NKP]

I strongly disagree with you. I believe people on here 100%, i dont care if it isnt true anyway, it doesnt take long to post a post anyway. People ask ways to end it, thats is there way asking for help, they say they dont want help well they really do. If you dont believe people on here then well dont post on them. each person deals with there pain in different ways, some can cope and some cant. People also post a tread say they are going to end it, so they can here someone say I CARE because they might feel like no one cares. So dont post on the next person says i am going to end it, coz really i dont care and i am sure they wont, coz there is alot of other people on here that will.

[Spugly Fuglet]

You believe 99% of the posts are real, in this section?

 

Don't get me wrong, I know people are grieving, people are depressed, but he honest with yourself.

 

I honestly believe, people will "seek out help" on here, and once they get the "Oh no, dont do it" "You will be missed, let me help!", they smile, and move on. They either, won't post again. Or will make another account.

 

Lets be real.

 

Joe, when you say "honest with yourself" are you trying to tell us what is it that we are not being honest about ,Some one can get help at any time here and a few words can change there world are you saying we are wrong to do this? What comes accross is a kind of fustration with thows going throw bad times.

[Carl5000]

I appreciate the essense of the post, to give people the fighting mentality. For a minority though suicide is a realistic option, where they reach a certain point, where they lose all hope and of any future happiness, i believe this is only in extreme cases. It isn't selfish, if your in pain everyday and have been for many years and can't envisage any future happiness, due to fate and uncontrollable circumstances. Its selfish in a way, to tell the person to carry on for others- when they are totally unhappy.

 

I think examples, are a good way to put accross my point. You have problems which are facts about you(where you have no control), others where the problem is solveable.

 

Lets say Eric, he's thirty-one years old. Due to the lottery of genetics and biology he ends up being grotesquely ugly, really short in statue, suffers from a micro-penis plus hes also got a really low IQ- he's been seriously unlucky genetically. Because of these short-comings he's unemployed, has never had a girlfriend/virgin- has been bullied and has no friends? he's never been happy all his life and in the eyes of others he's a laughing stock- hes lonely, depressed, has no money and has become disinterested in life- all the years of suffering have drained the life out of him.

 

Now what chance has this guy got of having much future happiness and success? very little.

 

Now, i wouldn't begrudge eric wanting to commit suicide, i could totally empathise with his circumstances. The majority of people though, are just seeing the world through contacts too concave or too convex and shouldn't even consider it, but for the rare few i can totally understand. They just have to seek professional help or visit forums, i have no problems with people saying they are going to commit suicide, even if they don't mean it. Mostly, its just a cry for help, they are desperate as they dont want to die. Nobody deep down, wants to die, its only when circumstances and especially ones where they can't see a solution they might consider it e.g being 500,000k in debt, with no way to repay it and where bankruptcy doesnt exist.

 

I believe almost everyone has hope, you just don't know whats around the corner so its worth-carrying on. I've suffered from deep-depressions and felt like ending it. But, i always hung in there and im so glad i have, as with joeg's brother it passed. I tried for professional help, but i just realised they couldn't help me and it had to come from within.

 

Well, i realised only your family can care about u, not counsellors or your doctors, as the service was nothign but shambolic- they just didn't give a * * * *. Dr Edwards ive been complating suicide for the last few days 'oh, i'll put you on a waiting list for 6months to see a counsellor and here's some meds' good luck ahah. Its best to just read and educate yourself. For some ppl, a psychologist my be useful, but for me he was a waste of my time.

 

Well, after my 2nd counselling session, my psychologist never called me back after his holidays. I hope, he doesn't treat suicidal patients with the same disregard. I still look back in amazement over it, its one thing to be cast aside by friends or lovers , but by a psychologist when you've got mental problems, unreal. I'm sure he was a fake

 

For anyone comtemplating suicide though, as ive been there and come through it. Just focus on getting through each day, no matter how much pain or hurt your feeling. It worked for me, as around january time this year. I couldnt get out of bed and ive never felt so low before in all my life. I just had to remain strong and focused and i kept telling myself it will pass, which it did(of course, as im writing this ways of ending it were on my mind every 10secs. In hindsight, im so pleased i stayed strong, things have gotten better in last few months, mostly down to me being more optismistic.

 

peace carl