Help me to decide

[JSMITH]

back in my uni days, this is like the basic of ... "logical thinking 101"

but must be love .. i am blinded.

can't decide.

 

I've been in an interesting relationship for the past 6mo.

interesting in a sense that we beat all the odds of not making it through .. but we pulled through.

been through a lot .. of course with a lot of hard times.

 

we are 2 totally different people.

different background, different culture, different personalities, different taste in almost everything (music, food, idea of fun, etc. etc.) .. it's safe to say we don't really have anything in common.

 

She is total happy-go-lucky type of person.

I am total serious business minded type of person.

She is always smiling .. while I always don't have any expression on my face.

Her cell phone goes off every hour from various her friends want to talk about something funny ... my cell phone goes off every hour from various business clients/contacts about serious matter.

you get the picture.

 

how are we together? who knows.

 

...

 

she wants to be with me.

she says .. "i like you. we have fun. etc. etc."

remember? happy go lucky type person?

 

I like her. heck I love her.

but i do know that she doesn't LOVE me. yet ... at least.

do i see her falling in love with me? ... not in my life time.

she just wants to get together, have fun ... have needs taken care of ... i don't know ..

 

i started asking myself a question ... if this relationship isn't really going anywhere .. other than getting together a few times a week .. talk little bit, go out for dinner, movie, play whatever else ... have sex ..

but really no future, nothing really meaningful ... then what's the point of me spending time, energy, emotion, and money on this?

 

 

with this limited info ... what's your take?

[TheRedQueen]

What about levels of intelligence and senses of humor? Are these totally different as well?

[Beec]

I think you need to give her something more, and then to take it away. Turn a switch and give it and take it away, then repeat, on and off and on and off, again and again.

 

If you breka it off, you will miss her, right? That means you will miss something you get from being iwth her, really from her. You need to find the right things to give her to get that feeling(s).

 

Love is an emotional attachment. It occurs when someone meets our emotional wants and needs, while being independnet and aloof, not clingy and needy. Narrow in our her needs and meet what she wants, then take that away, and she will chase you to get it again.

[Ipso Fracto Man]

I think you need to give her something more, and then to take it away. Turn a switch and give it and take it away, then repeat, on and off and on and off, again and again.

That ain't love, it's animal training.

[Beec]

That ain't love, it's animal training.

 

We are after all animals.

 

Why not do what works?

[JSMITH]

wow ...

totally not the answers i was expecting. but opens up a whole new chapter!

thanks!

 

well .. let's see.

we are both smart people.. while there're educational difference between us .. that's not really big issue. well, last night i was talking about certain mathmatical theory .. but she had no clue what i was talking about .. but who talks about mathmatical theory on date!

[HealingHandsWarmHeart]

Hey both you guys are making a great point..but we are going off the subject of how can 2 opposites attract?

 

I personally think that if its working...don't try to fix it or wonder why ...its like when you are learning to ride a bike..the second you realize your dad or whoever let go ...you got nervous and fell....i say just keep peddling.

 

My only question i s ...have you told her how you felt? she may not really think you are into her.... because as you say you are "serious".

[Beec]

I won't debate morality. I'll just say that I've never had to resort to cynical, borderline sociopathic trickery to attract a mate.

 

Neither would or have I.

 

The simple truth is that if I meet her emotional needs, I am doing what makes her feel good. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

 

If I do the same thing all the time, it will soon be expected, right? And shortly after being expected, it will be taken for granted? Correct?

 

So, if you want someone to appreciate things you do, then those things need to be missing at times. Right?

 

And HealingHandsWarmHeart, I was not addressing how opposites attract,I was suggesting how to get her to love him, which is the outcome that we all probably want. I would not tell her I loved her, unless and until I knew she was close to that with me.

[Ipso Fracto Man]

Thank you for the caution, but I don't see my posts as off-topic. My intent was to counter what I viewed as misogynistic advice on the subject at hand.

 

On another note, I don't believe that any two people are polar opposites--we all bleed when we are stabbed, do we not? There are only varying degrees of difference, and from my experience I don't see that continuum as inherently relevant to the success or failure of a relationship.

[Beec]

misogynistic advice.

??????

 

How does what I suggest show any hatred of women? if the man is in love, and really loves this woman that is his opposite, he is not capable of acting out of hatred. So, what is misogynistic?

[CarnelianButterfly]

I was suggesting how to get her to love him, which is the outcome that we all probably want. I would not tell her I loved her, unless and until I knew she was close to that with me.

That's a good way to make a girl "get up and leave". You want a good relationship, try mutual respect, care, and trust. Playing games with your mates emotions will only leave them frustrated and sabotage any chance you have of keeping a long lasting bond. Giving to take it away is a sick controlling way to prove what? You are able to play a stupid mind game? Please don't treat women like that, its just rude.

[Bethany]

 

i started asking myself a question ... if this relationship isn't really going anywhere .. other than getting together a few times a week .. talk little bit, go out for dinner, movie, play whatever else ... have sex ..

but really no future, nothing really meaningful ... then what's the point of me spending time, energy, emotion, and money on this?

 

 

I think maybe you should put these questions to her and see what her response is. If you're thinking like that, you need to be sharing your thoughts with her. How can or will anything change if you do not address the issues with the person your with? Communication is necessary in every relationship.

 

She thinks you are as happy as she is with what you both share and your not, and this is the main problem here. Tell her how you are feeling. Give her the chance to at least hear your worries and hopefully she will want to step up to the mark for you. If she does not step up to the mark, the answer to your question is that there is no point, no point at all.

[Beec]

That's a good way to make a girl "get up and leave". You want a good relationship, try mutual respect, care, and trust. Playing games with your mates emotions will only leave them frustrated and sabotage any chance you have of keeping a long lasting bond. Giving to take it away is a sick controlling way to prove what? You are able to play a stupid mind game? Please don't treat women like that, its just rude.

 

We all manipulate. We do it. No matter how much you think you may not, or how little you think you do, we do it.

 

I simply suggest that one do it and be conscious of how you do it, and in addition, do it in such a way that it has the desired effect.

 

Taking something away and how far you do it is your choice. Would I suggest a limit? Absolutely. If you really act in such a way that a persons emotions soar and bottom out, then soar and bottome out, you are creating a volatile situation that will result in the other person either exploding or being enslaved to your manipulation. That's exactly what an abuser does. See a man walk around on egg shells because his wife does nothign but make his life a living you-know-what, and then watch how she is nice and sweet to him on occasion. Find a guy who abuses his wife and then tempers that out with a nice sweet time once in a while, that is abuse.

 

However, just acting a loff for a short time. Acting slightly less interested. Not acting like you are a puppy dog seeking their attention is not.

 

JSMITH, sorry this is getting way off track. I would not suggest any particular limits for you, but would hope you do not take it to a drastic extent. However, you should get some understanding of love, how it works, why we fall for people. Giving them what they want emotionally is key, you need to figure that out. Being independent not needy or clingy while you do it is also key.

 

Your choices are simple. Risk a bit of effort and some emotion trying to get the woman you want, or dump her. If you love her, you don't want to dump her. You want her to want you, and to some extent she does. You just need to deepen that extent.

 

Now, if that will never happen, or you are not willing to learn and figure it out, then you can still risk the emotion and effort but without understanding what efforts will be most fruitful. You will be in sense walking blindly to who knows where.

 

As far as the opposites attracting, what does it matter. If she does it for you, then reel her in.

 

And she,my woman, has not left me. But of course, my manipulations are subtle, but I am conscious of many of them.

[CarnelianButterfly]

Being independent not needy or clingy while you do it is also key.

You can be independent without contriving the semblance of a relationship around teasing someone with your care and support.

And she,my woman, has not left me. But of course, my manipulations are subtle, but I am conscious of many of them.

Abusing someone's trust no matter how subtle is still abuse. The fact that you brag about consciously manipulating "your woman" is proof that your ploys are just power trips. Bribing someone with your affection is childish. How do you think "your woman" would respond if she just read what you wrote... "Oh that's my honey, such a great guy, he certainly knows how to treat a gal, maybe tonight we could have a cuddle, that is if he's not in the aloof phase of his master scheme of our love life".

[Momene]

I guess that there's always some element of power struggles even in good relationships (let's face it, nobody has a perfect one) but downright cynical game-playing is a great way to push people away, intelligent ones anyway.

[TheRedQueen]

wow ...

totally not the answers i was expecting. but opens up a whole new chapter!

thanks!

 

well .. let's see.

we are both smart people.. while there're educational difference between us .. that's not really big issue. well, last night i was talking about certain mathmatical theory .. but she had no clue what i was talking about .. but who talks about mathmatical theory on date!

If you are both smart people, regardless of your different eduactional backrounds and or specialized fields of knowledge or interest, I am quite sure that you can both carry on an intelligent conversation with one another, which by the way is a great thing to be able to share with your partner.

 

I think that this relationship has potential, I say stick with it!!!

[Beec]

You can be independent without contriving the semblance of a relationship around teasing someone with your care and support.

 

Abusing someone's trust no matter how subtle is still abuse. The fact that you brag about consciously manipulating "your woman" is proof that your ploys are just power trips. Bribing someone with your affection is childish. How do you think "your woman" would respond if she just read what you wrote... "Oh that's my honey, such a great guy, he certainly knows how to treat a gal, maybe tonight we could have a cuddle, that is if he's not in the aloof phase of his master scheme of our love life".

 

I don't really think you understand what I mean. I don't think I can explain either, because you don't seem to want to understand.

[Ipso Fracto Man]

The same could be said about anyone with whom we disagree, Beec.

 

Having said that, I want to apologize if my rebuttal of your suggestions to the OP came off as hostile to you, as avman apparently saw it. My opinions are rendered unflinchingly and without beating around the bush, but personal attack is not part of my debating strategy.

 

So let me politely and respectfully reiterate Carnelian's unanswered question: how DO you think a woman would react if she knew you were doing these things to manipulate her mind? Personally, I think that it would be an extremely counterproductive technique. I would encourage the OP to pursue this relationship, but with a decidedly more natural approach.

[Beec]

The same could be said about anyone with whom we disagree, Beec.

 

Having said that, I want to apologize if my rebuttal of your suggestions to the OP came off as hostile to you, as avman apparently saw it. My opinions are rendered unflinchingly and without beating around the bush, but personal attack is not part of my debating strategy.

 

So let me politely and respectfully reiterate Carnelian's unanswered question: how DO you think a woman would react if she knew you were doing these things to manipulate her mind? Personally, I think that it would be an extremely counterproductive technique. I would encourage the OP to pursue this relationship, but with a decidedly more natural approach.

 

Well, if someone told a woman, it would not work. But how does she react when she does not know? In my case, I've seen nothing in the way of negative reactions.

 

The simple truth is that you, I, Carnellian Butterfly and everyone else manipulates. By the time you are a toddler, you are doing it. If you don't accept that, then you are blind to the truth. When a small child promises antoher to be "your best friend", that is manipulation. When one throws a tantrum, that is it too. Sometimes these things are deceitful, sometimes unproductive, soemtimes destructive.

 

If you are going to manipulate, and you are, then shouldn't you try to do it in a way that works. I would think so, because if it doesn't work, then you are not getting what you want, and you will get frustrated and nasty. If you are going to do it, then shouldn't you also be honest with yourself that you are doing it. There are also times when you are being manipulated. It happens all the time. What happens in a relationship when someone wants sex and the other doesn't? Usually, the person who wants it tries to get it, and that is manipulation.

 

We all do it. I think we should be aware of the ways in which we do it, and do what works.

 

Now, I would not as had been suggested ignore my woman all night. No, but I might for 15 minutes. I might focus my attention on other things for a short while, and make her wait to get my attention. That would create a little tension, not much. A lot of tension tends to head for something destructive. A little, a little tension are the butterflies that you feel before first kiss and which shortly thereafter disappear never to reappear again, unless you know how to create them. Tension, a little tension, creates them. Release the tension, and it feels good.

 

You can learn this, or refuse to, but it works.

[CarnelianButterfly]

I don't really think you understand what I mean. I don't think I can explain either, because you don't seem to want to understand.

I'm very well aware of what your intentions are with your tactics. And I don't think it has any consideration for the person you are doing them to. Purposefully manipulating the person you should give yourself to freely and unconditionally is not a healthy relationship, it is instead a false environment that resembles a relationship so that the person is strung along, most likely so the meet the selfish needs of the manipulator and not their own. Relationships are not fields of war to test will power and mind control, its a place where you give love and support and they give love and support.

[Ipso Fracto Man]

Bees, it's not at all a matter of learning. This is something that I would have done when I was young and my conscience was undeveloped. Agreed, too much or too little attention are both dealbreakers, and yes, everyone manipulates to an extent. Now, I'm not above making a sad face at someone to get them to share their french fries with me, but what you're proposing strikes me as crossing over the line, the difference being how the person being manipulated would perceive your tactics: cute or creepy?

 

If a girl doesn't like you, no manipulative efforts will change her mind. If she does, you don't need them. I'll let women judge me on my personality, thanks; it just feels better inside.

[Beec]

Relationships are not fields of war to test will power and mind control, its a place where you give love and support and they give love and support.

 

That makes you sound like you have never been in a relationship, because if you had, you would know each one of them invovles a power struggle.

[Ipso Fracto Man]

That makes you sound like you have never been in a relationship, because if you had, you would know each one of them invovles a power struggle.

That makes it sound like you have never been in a GOOD relationship. It's not a war; it's all about compromise, cooperation and caring.

 

Good luck to the OP; I hope things work out well for you both.

[CarnelianButterfly]

That makes you sound like you have never been in a relationship, because if you had, you would know each one of them invovles a power struggle.

My relationship has no power struggle, its cooperation and we take care of each other. The only need for power struggles are when there's someone insecure with who they are and they feel the need to dominate the one person that they should treat as their equal.

[Beec]

I certainly don't dominate my relationship. If anything I am the one who puts my foot down and refuses to be dominated.

 

And who has said anything about not taking care of someone. You need to be there when they need you. You just should not be there all the time. There should be some time, when they want you and you are not there.

 

And if you relationship has no power struggle, my guess is that you are ignoring the fact that it exists. Who decides where to go on a given night? Who most often gets their way? Who tries to get their way? These are all power struggles. Every relationship has them.