Seriously do abused people played victims??

[yeawutever]

Ok, maybe I'm not making sense by that statement, but wut I meant is why do people in abusive relations or those abuse long ago don't stand up for themselves and move on. It's like they are waiting for someone to rescue them, someone they can cry on, and hoping for some miracle to happen, but they have to do it themselves. Yes, couseling and therapy does help you out, but if u don't put ur effort or don't make a better out fo urself, and still can't overcome ur problems, ur fears, then how on earth will one live a better life?? Some will even mention the same thing over and over and don't do nothing about it to get better. They don't realize they're a strong person, yet they keep lowering themselves and expect people to feel compassion for them, it's like them thinking that if someone doens't rescue them, they'll never make it and always be failures in life, which ain't true.

Example: You have problem in math, u never understood it, ok so you go to tutoring and they helped you out, but see, they can't tell you steps by steps on how to work out every math problems. You have to apply the rules, the general principals urself. After tutoring, it's up to u to make that effort, to make a change, to become better at it.

[truckerbabe]

It's because these people can make you feel weak, they intimidate you, they drag you down until you feel absolutely worthless and don't have the strength to fight back.... but the biggest thing is fear. Fear of retaliation, fear of rejection, fear of starting over, fear of not ever finding anyone again.

 

It's easy to say just get up & walk out... but if you were in a situation where you feared he may take your life if you stayed or left, I think you'd know why a lot of these women don't really know what to do.

 

I have never been in a relationship with physical abuse, but I have with emotional/mental abuse and it is the same thing. He made me feel absolutely worthless and that I could never do anything right. I went from being confident & happy when I met him to being sad, depressed and not wanting to do the things I loved. All I wanted to do was make him happy and I could never do it, no matter how hard I tried.

[AwdreeHpburn]

I know you're asking honestly, at least I hope you are...

 

You sound like a take-charge kind of person. Or at least someone who wants to be that way. It seems pretty clear to you that if something isn't working, you should stop doing it. Plain and simple. Don't cry about it, don't contemplate it, just stop doing it.

 

What if I told you taking charge isn't really the healthiest way to be? You are missing out on the lessons only struggling can teach. (I'm making this up to illustrate a point)

 

Could you stop being so take-charge? Let go of some of that. Just change that view point. Stop thinking that its so easy, cut and dry. I mean, just all of a sudden, take all of your opinions and how you got them, and believe my way...no argument, no excuses, just know and believe that it will be better for you to change to this view point. And then just plain and simply change.

 

Trying to undertand psychology in a forum over postings is a very difficult thing to do. Very difficult for someone to explain as well.

 

If you truly want to understand why people say what they say, act how they do, stop trying, don't change etc. pay attention to them, not your view of them or how you think they SHOULD do things. You could also pick up a few books or take a few classes.

 

The psychology of humans is anything but as easy as just buck up and apply yourself.

[Dako]

I had a neighbor who was often beaten by her husband. She would get black eyes and I could hear her screaming at night. I offered to help her in many ways, called the cops and even faced down her hubby as he aimed a 9mm in my face. Real drama. I lost all respect for that woman because she'd do nothing to get away, yet would cry to me about her pain. I came to the conclusion she was as guilty as her husband.

 

Unfortunately, they had an innocent little girl who also got hit. I made her promise if she ever got scared to hide in my house. I left the back door open for her, and I kept a baseball bat on the fridge so I could whack her father if he popped in.

 

I'm not a callous person, but if I were in the same situation today I'd offer to help once, then stay away form the whole mess.

 

Yes, I suspect being a victim can become a habitual role for an abused woman if they lack any self-worth. It's sad.

[DN]

One of the reasons abused people stay in a bad situation is because they fear that they will go from a bad situation to a worse. Sometimes it's because they somehow feel they deserve that treatment.

 

But sometimes it's because they cannot ever view themselves as anything other than a victim and often subconsciously seek out people who will mistreat them.

 

The trick is knowing which is which.

[arwen]

I agree with DN. Couldn't have phrased it better in fact. The same principle of his last statement underlies the feeling for some of us that we keep attracting people who are wrong for us in the first place (abusive or not). It has to do with- no matter how odd it might sound- a sense of safeness. If you are telling yourself unconsciously that you are worth nothing in life, you will most likely find yourself in the company of people that somehow confirm exactly THAT belief you have about yourself.

 

Ilse

[AwdreeHpburn]

If it was as easy as all that - wouldn't we all be perfect? I mean surely we are ALL doing things that someone else believes is wrong or could be done better. If we could just "get out" or start believing we're worth more or deserve more, or could just stop doing what we're doing, there would be no need for psychologists or therapists or forums like this one cuz we'd all be able to change on a whim.

 

I'm not saying responsibilty should be taken out of the hands of vicitms, I do agree there comes a time to take advice or take control. But the reasons one has a hard time doing that are far beyond the WILL to change. You have to have tools, knowledge, strength, resources, etc. Will alone sometimes is not enough.

 

People can't just change because we think they should. Otherwise, let's all insist George Dub-ya stop being so homophobic...although he doesn't really even have the will right now...

[Dako]

I think Ailec had a valid question.

Sure it's hard for abused people to change, but when you look into someone's eyes and they just defend their abusers, it makes you wonder if masochism plays a role along with fear.

[teacup]

i would say that...abused ppl do have a little bit of a victim mentality. but this is not something that should be considered their fault. they've been brought to the point of thinking this way for so long, that sometimes they simply dont know any other ways to think or any other ways to cope, handle the situation, feel better or to get away. a lot of abused ppl have hopes that their abuser will stop and treat them better.

 

abuse has layers and layers of issues. it's not as simple and direct as you would think. the abuse has usually grown over time and was built up slowly.....little bit by little bit, the abuse was increased, the victim's dependency was increased, the victim's selfesteem was slowly worn away, the control was slowly escalated day by day. sometimes you wake up and start to realize you've been trapped, confused and controlled and you never saw it coming! most ppl dont recognize the covert nature of abuse....or the cycles of abuse.....the abuser is sweet for a brief amount of time.....then there is violence......then the apologies and sorries.

 

victims are chipped away at to become helpless.....and dependent, isolated and alone....they are brainwashed. to slowly come back and recognize the light takes time...to regain your sense, sense of self and selfesteem after it has been completely erased takes time.....to deal with the agony and the anguish of all the negative feelings a victim of abuse might feel takes work.....all the selfblame, shame, trauma, hurt, anger, anguish, sadness, love, hatred.....

 

it is not as simple as stopping the abuse. otherwise.....millions of women all over the world wouldn't have been abused by men for centuries.

 

i was abused. i never saw it coming. i was always very intelligent, articulate. but i had some parts of me that made me vulnerable to an abuser.....the need for love, attention and affection. he pretended he was my best friend. he pretended to be my greatest supporter. but i became trapped in a sick cycle with him....i got away but even now i am paying for the effects of what happened with mental and emotional anguish.

 

there is so much about abuse.....i think only someone who has been through it would inately understand.

[Dako]

Good post, teacup!

It's good to hear the facts from someone with insight.

[teacup]

the human mind is a funny thing. different ppl process thoughts and actions in different ways. that is why there is so much variety in life.....but also patterns of behavior that can be examined. it is weird......our own mind can be our greatest friend and helper or our greatest enemy.

 

i simply think that abuse victims have trained and gotten their minds used to being their own worst enemy.

 

similarly with all the ppl on this site....seeking help and support....every single one of us has some mental block in our head. in the mind....something is affecting us......that we are having difficulty with coping, controlling, affecting or changing........otherwise.....none of us would be here.

[AwdreeHpburn]

well....sheesh, i may not have insight or facts, but I feel like I was sort of saying the same thing...

[Itsok]

Ta ree saw, no reason to get bent out of shape. We are all just here to talk.

[ShySoul]

Brillant posts teacup. You have great insight and understanding. I'm just sorry it had to come at personal expense. Hope you are doing better.

[fire]

u might see the overall picture as easy as u think, but if u didn't experience it u DO NOT FEEL IT. believe me it hurts a lot, it makes u another person, seriously. it hurts -in depth- your self respect and the others confidence. it automatically makes your heart pulsing very fast.

thanks for understanding and let it that easy.

[Tesseract_Witch]

u might see the overall picture as easy as u think, but if u didn't experience it u DO NOT FEEL IT.

 

 

I have heard that countless times before, but I bring up the debate, as a sort of digression from the post (sorry): is it so that you can ever know all sides of something, even once you have been within the box, not simply scrutinizing the superficial layers? Even if you are involved in something, can you ever really understand it?

[Dako]

I've seen abused women stay. I fully understand how a long period of abuse destroys a woman's self-respect and makes her the puppet of a monster.

 

It's hard to believe for healthy people.

[KweenofDenyl]

Dako, if you kept a baseball bat by your back door because/for this guy, imagine what HER life was like.

 

The most dangerous time an abused woman will ever face is when she LEAVES. She is 75% more likely to be killed (and she knows this, without seeing a therapist or dv advocate, she knows this deep down). Throw in the systematic tearing down of her personality, her self-esteem/worth, add a dash of ridicule and top it all off with a lovely layer of "you'll never get the kid/s if you leave". Add to that any number of variables- poverty, mental illness, addiction, lack of outside support, lack of trust, and you have a woman who doesn't have the skill set to leave.

 

It doesn't necessarily take a long time to wear her down. It can be done in a matter of months if the abuser is good enough. And this is a learned, calculated behavior. It has nothing, I repeat NOTHING to do with anger or anger management or losing control. It's about having and keeping control. And he keeps it by any means possible.

 

Dako-just out of curiosity-there is quite a difference between your first and last post on this thread...?

[xprincessbugx]

Most of abused people have been manipulated in the situation they are in. The other person has broken them down to make them feel worthless and they have a poor self esteem. People that are abusing their significant other usually sweet talk them just as much after they've abused them so it makes it seem like their really sorry and these people want to believe that they are. They just want that person to love them no matter what and they stick around hoping they'll change or they'll get better but it doesn't ever work. A lot of psychological problems occur to and they are basically brainwashed to believe that they can't find anyone else better and no one else loves them. It's a sad situation to be in really, and these people are afraid to escape incase the person that's abusing them finds them. There are many reasons that people being abused don't leave. It seems pretty simple looking at the situation from the outside but I guess if you are actually in the relationship it can seem a lot different.

[Dako]

Dako-just out of curiosity-there is quite a difference between your first and last post on this thread...?

 

Interesting. Must be some recent experiences.

We're all in a state of flux.

[CarnelianButterfly]

For one, there are those that are victims and can not break free for reasons beyond just wanting to. Children that are abused have no way to get out of their abuse with out a rescuer. They are at the whim of their abuser because they are powerless. There is a lot of shame and pain involved in being the victim of abuse. You are not only physically beaten but you're psychologically tortured. There is no amount of personal resolve that can free you from the utter betrayal you feel when attacked by a loved one. If you think staying with an abuser is a sign of playing the victim you are so horribly wrong and have no understanding of the true destruction a person's mind goes through when you're beaten day in and day out. You fear your abuser, but that fear breeds even greater fears of what horrors lie beyond your little world of pain. The pessimism and self-hate make the world all around you terrifying and cruel beyond all imagination.

[yeawutever]

Yes indeed children can't escape without a rescuer, but with adults it's another separate issue.

What I was referring mostly was about them who do actually get out and end it, but constantly tell their stories about being abuse, how they were hopeless, how they can't move on, etc. It gets to some point where you're trying to help them find their way out until you had enough of it and you would be then saying "Ok, well screw ya, get therapy already, instead of waiting to be rescue and not doing anything for yourself".

[KweenofDenyl]

Ailec, I get the feeling you are a pragmatic, up-front, deal-with-it kind of person. The most obnoxious thing a person can do to someone like you is whine about being helpless!

Those kind of people drive me nuts too. My sister is one of 'em. I can talk until I'm blue in the face but she doesn't want answers or solutions, she wants to whine! She LIKES being in a constant state of drama. It keeps the focus on her.

I think adults that behave like children should be treated like children--so lately I've been using the Love & Logic model to deal with her. She doesn't come around so much anymore.

[Dako]

I wish it were so simple.

People are capable of very strange and irrational behavior. Especially the ones who are unaware of their own vulnerablities. We all feel in control and rational most of the time, but should show compassion for those who are in bizarre mental states. We may join them under certain circumstances.

I was tossed into a nuthouse after my wife left. I was violent and suicidal, totally out of character for all who know me. I'd never been that violently angry in my entire life. I surprised myself.

We all live in glass houses.

[KweenofDenyl]

There is a difference between situational mental/emotional distress and long-term personality disorder type stuff.

 

Of course it's not simple. If it were simple we would not be here, surfing ENA.

 

You can't change other people's behavior, only your reaction to it. Most people come here looking for the secret to change others. It does not exist.