I thought I’d be happy/relieved if she found someone; turns out I’m sad

[rainbowsandroses]

29 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

However there's not much here to indicate she wants a romantic relationship.

I agree with this^ and would suggest the same is true for @NighttimeNightmare

There is not much here indicating HE wants a romantic relationship either, at least in her eyes, yet he claims he does.

Referencing all his threads about their relationship her actions are every bit as bold and crass as his are - two peas in a pod.

NN I can't say for certain what's going on but please don't completely dismiss my post, I've been there.

I've done a lot of pretending, covering up and acting stupidly.  Why?  Fear. 

Please read the book I suggested, it's all there in great detail including reasons for all the crass sexual innuendo etc.

Good luck. 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

Sexual innuendos are easy because they don’t require me to be vulnerable 

 

also @Wiseman2 I don’t agree with your post. You focus too much on my mention of the sexual things, which I only bring up to highlight a point. We rarely flirt or say sexual things to one another. Usually we just hang out, talk, make dinner, and do things around the house. Once in a blue moon some weird flirty thing will happen, but it’s rare.  

I’m not in a corner giggling at her like a schoolboy lol.  You think I’m sexually obsessed with her and that’s all this is about. I’m demisexual so, that doesn’t even make sense in my reality. My sexual desire for her has always been from the emotional connection I’ve felt for her. And at this point it’s gotten pretty deep 
 

@rainbowsandroses how does it not seem like I want a romantic connection with her in her eyes? 
 

I will read the book, though. This is fear based for me, I don’t deny that.  She’s the same, saying she doesn’t want to get hurt. And I know it’s easy for me to get close to someone like that cos she won’t push me to be too vulnerable in that way.  I’m almost certain, ironically, if she ever did make a move I’d bolt. As it is, right now is easy, but it’s not true that I don’t want a romantic relationship with her. I do, a compartment of me does. 

[Tinydance]

8 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Sexual innuendos are easy because they don’t require me to be vulnerable 

 

also @Wiseman2 I don’t agree with your post. You focus too much on my mention of the sexual things, which I only bring up to highlight a point. We rarely flirt or say sexual things to one another. Usually we just hang out, talk, make dinner, and do things around the house. Once in a blue moon some weird flirty thing will happen, but it’s rare.  

I’m not in a corner giggling at her like a schoolboy lol.  You think I’m sexually obsessed with her and that’s all this is about. I’m demisexual so, that doesn’t even make sense in my reality. My sexual desire for her has always been from the emotional connection I’ve felt for her. And at this point it’s gotten pretty deep 
 

@rainbowsandroses how does it not seem like I want a romantic connection with her in her eyes? 
 

I will read the book, though. This is fear based for me, I don’t deny that.  She’s the same, saying she doesn’t want to get hurt. And I know it’s easy for me to get close to someone like that cos she won’t push me to be too vulnerable in that way.  I’m almost certain, ironically, if she ever did make a move I’d bolt. As it is, right now is easy, but it’s not true that I don’t want a romantic relationship with her. I do, a compartment of me does. 

What's the point in discussing all this. You keep writing the same things again and again. If you're too scared to say anything then that's fine. But you can't blame her if she goes on a date with someone else because at least other men have the guts to pursue her. You don't.

[rainbowsandroses]

15 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

how does it not seem like I want a romantic connection with her in her eyes? 

Because you haven't said or done anything that would suggest to her you DO want a romantic relationship with her. 

And this:

15 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I'm almost certain, ironically, if she ever did make a move I’d bolt. 

I'm not understanding how you can say you want a romantic relationship with her and commitment but in the next breath say if she ever did make a move in thar direction, you would bolt.

That's a mixed message, can you clarify? 

[NighttimeNightmare]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

This has nothing to do with commitment and nothing to do with tiptoeing around or being afraid.

For me, it does. It’s exactly what it is, making stupid light-hearted sexual comments once in a blue moon is easier than sitting down and being honest about my feelings.  It gives me little validation hits and adds a bit of fun. It’s not what I really want, or how I really want it, but it’s easy

 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

She tolerates your over-sexualization of her in exchange for company

False. We rarely bring up sexual innuendos. We have a real friendship. She really doesn’t need my company anyway, she’s out with her friend group a lot, staying active. She’s expressed to me that she has a preference for my company. She tells me that a lot actually 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

You seem to have this "naughty little boy" attitude toward her with she "let me" do this, she wasn't wearing undies, etc. Almost like a schoolboy. Maybe it's amusing or flattering to her, but definitely hard to take seriously

This sounds like some weird mommy son fetish talk. No. I’m explaining she didn’t have underwear on because I’m painting a picture of what’s going on as you seem to think this is some weird one-sided obsession when in actuality she pursues my company all of the time 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

However there's not much here to indicate she wants a romantic relationship. A one-sided over-sexualized friendship,maybe.... because that's all your offering

I’ve explained our friendship outside of the occasional sexual talk but you’ve ignored those explanations? 
 

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

t doesn't even seem like a "age-gap" problem because even if you were the same age it would be hard to understand why any woman would tolerate this

Tolerate what? I think you misunderstand our connection and however it is you’re understanding it (in some similar fashion to what you’re repeating back to me) I would agree that it would be weird and of no substance. But what you repeat back to me is not accurate with what I’m witnessing in person  
 

clearly I’m offering her something or she wouldn’t stick around. And she tells me as much  

[Wiseman2]

15 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

 I know it’s easy for me to get close to someone like that cos she won’t push me to be too vulnerable in that way.  I’m almost certain, ironically, if she ever did make a move I’d bolt. As it is, right now is easy, 

Exactly. This is what it's about. It's easy and it works for you. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Because you haven't said or done anything that would suggest to her you DO want a romantic relationship with her

I think the flowers, chocolate, and dinner spread I did for her on her birthday was pretty romantic.  I’m not tacky either, it was all meticulous and high-end.  Lit with candles. 
 

not saying it is the same as discussing a commitment, but I’d say it was a romantic gesture 

4 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

m not understanding how you can say you want a romantic relationship with her and commitment but in the breath say if she ever did make a move in thar direction, you would bolt

Both things are true within myself simultaneously. Don’t you ever have opposing thoughts that are both true to varying degrees?  It’s true that I want something more with her, but it’s also true that I think I’d be inclined to bolt if she were to be upfront about wanting something with me. I’m not saying I wouldn’t regroup and hold myself together afterwards. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

16 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

What's the point in discussing all this

Isn’t that the point of the message board? Message boards are a medium to discuss thoughts. 
 

I have a history of not feeling anything, at all, and invalidating myself. Which honestly probably plays a BIG role in why this particular issue is so difficult for me. So writing things out on a message board forces me to interact with my thoughts and fears 

 

16 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

But you can't blame her if she goes on a date with someone else

I wouldn’t blame her but i can work through my feelings about it however I need to 

16 minutes ago, Tinydance said:

because at least other men have the guts to pursue her. You don't.

Lol 

[rainbowsandroses]

6 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Both things are true within myself simultaneously. Don’t you ever have opposing thoughts that are both true to varying degrees?  It’s true that I want something more with her, but it’s also true that I think I’d be inclined to bolt if she were to be upfront about wanting something with me. I’m not saying I wouldn’t regroup and hold myself together afterwards.

Bolded, yes when I had a fear of commitment/relationships, I most certainly did have opposing thoughts. 

That's why you should read the book...it will give you insight and a better understanding so you can develop healthier ways of interacting and developing relationships.

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Bolded, yes when I had a fear of commitment/relationships, I most certainly did have opposing thoughts. 

That's why you should read the book...it will give you insight and a better understanding so you can develop healthier ways of interacting and developing relationships.

I just put it in my cart, I’ll give it a read

im not completely out of the loop with this sort of thing either. I know that I’m easy for her too because I’m not asking for commitment. She has commitment fears, and I know she gets a lot of benefits from me without having to be vulnerable in the ways she fears 
 

but at the end of the day it’s pretty stupid because we’ve both gotten hurt already. We recovered well, with care for one another and conversations on how to do better, but our attempts at “not having feelings” isn’t working out well. Pretty sure I made her cry the other day, not on purpose obviously, but still. 
 

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 hours ago, ShySoul said:

"Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, "It might have been." John Greenleaf Whittier

It's natural to be scared to open up. It's fine to vent. But if you keep doing the same thing, you'll get the same result. At some point if you want more with her, or even a chance at it, you have to speak up. Otherwise you will lose the chance, possibly forever. And the hurt of always wondering what might have been is worse then anything else, believe me.

Thank you for your kind responses, I do appreciate them. And you’re right, I felt a piece of that today 

[rainbowsandroses]

4 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I just put it in my cart, I’ll give it a read

im not completely out of the loop with this sort of thing either. I know that I’m easy for her too because I’m not asking for commitment. She has commitment fears, and I know she gets a lot of benefits from me without having to be vulnerable in the ways she fears 
 

but at the end of the day it’s pretty stupid because we’ve both gotten hurt already. We recovered well, with care for one another and conversations on how to do better, but our attempts at “not having feelings” isn’t working out well. Pretty sure I made her cry the other day, not on purpose obviously, but still. 
 

Believe me, I completely understand, see my very first post - you're two peas in a pod.

I'm glad you ordered the book. It's helped me so much, it's become my relationship bible so to speak. 

Let me know what you think and feel free to DM if you want to talk about it! 

Also want to say you sound quite self-aware which is the first step toward healing. 😀

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

Ok so I have an actual update

a few hours ago she txtd me a bunch of pictures from the dinner and then said she’d call me in a bit. Just got off of the phone with her about an hour ago. Well, ya I was wrong. I suppose my concern for myself is that (1) I even am capable of spiraling like this at all with no ability to stop it, and (2) at some point she really will meet someone, the clock restarts, another ticking time bomb 

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

a few hours ago she txtd me a bunch of pictures from the dinner and then said she’d call me in a bit. Just got off of the phone with her about an hour ago. Well, ya I was wrong. 

No one is disputing that this isn't a mutually desired and beneficial situation. Or that she doesn't enjoy your company or that your don't have an emotional connection. It's just that your examples of supposed interest are strange such as no underwear.  

The only thing I disagree with is the "man up and make a move!" dare. Why? You're both content and happy with exactly the way things are. Why try to put this in some sort of box? That's where the anxiety is coming from. If you just enjoy each other and what you have, none of this angst would be happening. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Believe me, I completely understand, see my very first post - you're two peas in a pod.

I'm glad you ordered the book. It's helped me so much, it's become my relationship bible so to speak. 

Let me know what you think and feel free to DM if you want to talk about it! 

Also want to say you sound quite self-aware which is the first step toward healing. 😀

 

I studied psychology for a very long time and decided I was fascinated by human disorders and trauma, but didn’t want anything to do with helping random strangers out of it. So I went down a completely different path. I have a good grasp on a lot of this stuff probably because of my background, I saw myself in literature over and over. But stopping an internal train with no brakes and applying tools to real-life scenarios is a different beast. I let myself unravel on these boards to try and break out of this. She has no idea I’m like this. 
 

actually, I think she picks up on some stuff, judging from a few recent comments she’s made. And I’ve opened up to her about my lack of empathy and my black and white thinking.  I thought she’d stop talking to me but she hasn’t. She asked me some questions about it.  
 

thank you for the book suggestion! 

[Kwothe28]

13 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I suppose my concern for myself is that (1) I even am capable of spiraling like this at all with no ability to stop it, and (2) at some point she really will meet someone, the clock restarts, another ticking time bomb 

Yes, because you are not going to the solution of the issue but just prolonging the "status quo". Which would break with either you finally doing something about it or she finding someone else. I get that its easier at the time to maintain "status quo" and just having fun with her, but as you can see, it doesnt do you good when the dynamic just tortures you. I mean, she is older so she might not date anymore. But would you be satisfied with that when your desire is for her to be with you? At some time you would need to break that "status quo" no matter what happens after. Or this will just prolong and you will spiral even more.

[NighttimeNightmare]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

No one is disputing that this isn't a mutually desired and beneficial situation. Or that she doesn't enjoy your company or that your don't have an emotional connection.

Oh, ok, I misunderstood

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It's just that your examples of supposed interest are strange such as no underwear.  

I think she might be interested because of the type of emotional connection we have made. I don’t know in what way she’s interested, but the depth seems beyond a normal friendship. I don’t think the no underwear thing has anything to do with it, I just found it strange she opened the door in that state in a short thin robe. That’s all. 
 

I think she might be interested in some way because of how she interacts with me and the way she touches me and looks at me.  She’s emotionally vulnerable with me and craves me to respond in an emotionally vulnerable way.  She’s told me she likes me and needs me. In what way, I don’t know, but she’s told me it. When we were at her friends house last week she blew me a kiss from across the way. It’s little moments like those in the midst of much bigger ones. It’s not that I’m giggling childishly at someone blowing me a kiss, it’s that when you’re in a large group of people and everyone is interacting and you look over at the person you’re connected to and in that moment you get a sweet gesture from them, well, it feels nice, it’s notable. Same thing with when we go out to dinner with groups and she touches my inner thigh under the table to communicate with me, it’s not crass. It’s gentle, and classy, and the energy behind it is nice. We almost always end our day with a convo and she tells me about her day, things that made her happy, or sad.  She’s really encouraging with me about my own things and when I’m annoyed with her I voice it and she really does change her behavior, I do the same for her.  It resembles connections I’ve had with girlfriends. 

21 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The only thing I disagree with is the "man up and make a move!" dare.

I don’t think those comments, phrased like that, are helpful because they’re said as if I’m *supposed* to be behaving in some way because I’m a man. When this person has also said she doesn’t want a relationship in general lol  I don’t even fully believe her because she says it so often, for someone who doesn’t want one, she sure spends a lot of time trying to convince herself of it  

but I can say I’m not super happy with how it’s going because the idea of her being with someone is sad for me.  I’m fine until I remember that reality.  I tend to agree with @rainbowsandroses take. I think this is somewhat comfortable cos neither of us have to address the elephant in the room.  Doesn’t mean it’s me she wants, but I know she’s enjoying the fruits with a guy who isn’t pushing for some commitment. I’m doing the same 

[Tinydance]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Oh, ok, I misunderstood

I think she might be interested because of the type of emotional connection we have made. I don’t know in what way she’s interested, but the depth seems beyond a normal friendship. I don’t think the no underwear thing has anything to do with it, I just found it strange she opened the door in that state in a short thin robe. That’s all. 
 

I think she might be interested in some way because of how she interacts with me and the way she touches me and looks at me.  She’s emotionally vulnerable with me and craves me to respond in an emotionally vulnerable way.  She’s told me she likes me and needs me. In what way, I don’t know, but she’s told me it. When we were at her friends house last week she blew me a kiss from across the way. It’s little moments like those in the midst of much bigger ones. It’s not that I’m giggling childishly at someone blowing me a kiss, it’s that when you’re in a large group of people and everyone is interacting and you look over at the person you’re connected to and in that moment you get a sweet gesture from them, well, it feels nice, it’s notable. Same thing with when we go out to dinner with groups and she touches my inner thigh under the table to communicate with me, it’s not crass. It’s gentle, and classy, and the energy behind it is nice. We almost always end our day with a convo and she tells me about her day, things that made her happy, or sad.  She’s really encouraging with me about my own things and when I’m annoyed with her I voice it and she really does change her behavior, I do the same for her.  It resembles connections I’ve had with girlfriends. 

I don’t think those comments, phrased like that, are helpful because they’re said as if I’m *supposed* to be behaving in some way because I’m a man. When this person has also said she doesn’t want a relationship in general lol  I don’t even fully believe her because she says it so often, for someone who doesn’t want one, she sure spends a lot of time trying to convince herself of it  

but I can say I’m not super happy with how it’s going because the idea of her being with someone is sad for me.  I’m fine until I remember that reality.  I tend to agree with @rainbowsandroses take. I think this is somewhat comfortable cos neither of us have to address the elephant in the room.  Doesn’t mean it’s me she wants, but I know she’s enjoying the fruits with a guy who isn’t pushing for some commitment. I’m doing the same 

I really don't understand....You want to be with her but you don't want to ask if she feels the same?

[Batya33]

Assume things can change on a dime. Ms. or Mr. Afraid of Commitment meets the person that flips the switch or makes them realize they only feared committing to the wrong people in their past.  I've seen this again and again, experienced it myself.  As Charlotte said about men in Sex and the City - "his cab light is on" meaning - back in the day- the taxi was available for a passenger.  Not only should you assume her cab light is on but she's telling you she's actively putting herself out there so put aside your biased diagnosis of her fears -even if she's shared that with you or believes that herself.  

"Act now or forever hold your peace."  

As far as your fun games with sexual innuendo you're playing with fire - don't assume just because  you flattering her about old photos is fine with her that a heart emoji also will be - by way of example only. Friends don't play games like that.

[NighttimeNightmare]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

but she's telling you she's actively putting herself out there

She’s never once told me this. Where did you get this from? 
 

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

you flattering her about old photos

No I flatter her in the now. I think she’s sexy now 

the old photo thing was something that happened months ago  

 

anyway, I’m on my way to her place now, as per usual 

[Tinydance]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

She’s never once told me this. Where did you get this from? 
 

No I flatter her in the now. I think she’s sexy now 

the old photo thing was something that happened months ago  

 

anyway, I’m on my way to her place now, as per usual 

Well you're allowed to vent and share your feelings but this is also an advice forum. If you don't actually want any advice at all and prefer just to talk then have you considered therapy? One last thing I'll say is, life is short. You can't have control over everything in life but there are some things you can try to control or steer towards what you want.

You basically love this woman and want to be with her but you're just way too scared to actually get out of your comfort zone or do anything. You said you studied psychology. You know what cognitive dissonance is? It's where you're not happy or are uncomfortable with something so you use a defence mechanism where you tell yourself you're actually content with everything as it is.

The problem is, defence mechanisms don't actually change reality. You aren't just happy being friends, you want more. The thought of her dating other guys kills you. So essentially you're lying to yourself that you're fine. If you want to continue lying to yourself absolutely that's your  choice.

I think some people aren't meant to be our friends. If you have a friend but one person develops feelings, you either have to move on from your feelings, start a relationship or end the friendship. An "elephant in the room" friendship will eventually end. I've seen it happen all the time.

Anyway good luck to you, will be my last comment on your posts.

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

She’s never once told me this. Where did you get this from? 
 

No I flatter her in the now. I think she’s sexy now 

the old photo thing was something that happened months ago  

 

anyway, I’m on my way to her place now, as per usual 

I thought you said she’s being set up on dates. 

[ShySoul]

Nighttime, I wonder if your studying of psychology is actually harming you here. I think you have a good grasp on how you both feel about each other and the pros and cons of the situation. But it's like your trying to keep yourself at a distance, studying and dissecting every action. I approach things logically as well. But when it comes to matters of the heart, sometimes you just need to go with what you feel. Staying as is plays it safe and isn't a risk. You both dance around the subject without having to really take the dive. You can enjoy the fun and games. Except, you admit it's more. You know one day the games will end. Do you want them to end with her finding someone else? Or do you want it to end with a chance the someone is you? 

Bigger the potential risk, bigger the potential reward. So ask yourself, is the risk worth it? If yes, then risk it already! If not, let it go, for both of your sakes.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I don’t think those comments, phrased like that, are helpful because they’re said as if I’m *supposed* to be behaving in some way because I’m a man. When this person has also said she doesn’t want a relationship in general 

It seems like you're afraid of losing her because of the connection, routine and comfort of it. There is no guarantee anything will last forever. If she told you she doesn't want a relationship and you're enjoying each other and the status quo, there's no reason to panic. 

[catfeeder]

I'd use the novel opportunity to open up a conversation--or not, depending on her response. I'd probably say something like, "You know, I was relieved to hear that you didn't end up connecting with the brother at Christmas dinner. I have to admit, when I thought about that possibility, it made me a bit jealous. Is that bad?"