Reverted to obsession with moving to Tokyo

[survivor2021]

Hello,

I started to develop an urge to move to a big Asian city, especially Japan's Tokyo after graduating as an IT engineer. I have a brother living there who joined the family business. I wanted to get a job there on my own and I refused to join the toxic family business, that has lots of problems that end up ruining the relationships in work and in family too. I had no luck and also I kept doing research and found out that actually Tokyo, along with most Asian countries are difficult for entry level, don't pay much and have a bad working culture in general.

I ended up moving to Germany's Munich. It's been nearly one year, and I actually like it a lot. Also being away from my father and brother discussions about the family business and forgetting the feeling of being left out and living in the third world country was good for me. I also started to forget my obsession with moving to Tokyo, because I'm happy here in Germany. 

Well, I kind of reverted to my old feelings a couple of days ago because I was on a video call with my mother and my father and brother in the background were talking about how Japan is the 'best country' and moving to any other country will just be a downgrade, since getting used to life in Tokyo will spoil you. I felt inferior and jealous and I just reverted to my old self, opening Youtube, watching virtual walks in the city, with all the fancy ads and skycrapers and comparing it to the big village I live in. 

And yes I know that comparison kills happiness and all that, but that's just how I feel. I would be lying to myself if I tell the opposite. A week ago, I was fine, very happy actually since I moved to a very nice apartment. I never ruled out a move to Japan and I was actually thinking about spending some vacations there, but I was actually glad that it was not an obsession anymore.

 

[Wiseman2]

46 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

I ended up moving to Germany's Munich. It's been nearly one year, and I actually like it a lot.  I'm happy here in Germany. 

Please try to avoid toxic conversations with the family. If you are happy where you are, you made the right decision. 

[Batya33]

This is normal. People who are on the fence or have regrets can be triggered in this way. The more you focus on the regretful feelings the more they stay forefront in your mind.  Let those feelings exist and then live your life. They will slowly fade off if you don’t feed them with intense focus. 
 

[ShySoul]

Follow your heart and focus on what makes you happy. If you are happy with where you are at, then keep reminding yourself of it. It's natural to wonder about paths not taken, but it's important to not lose sight of why you made the choices you did. You've made a decision that worked out for you, so remind yourself of all the good things that decision has brought you. 

And there is no reason you can't visit Tokyo just to experience the positive aspects of it. Remember the old saying, it's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. 😉

[Kwothe28]

Weeb!!!!

I dont think its good for your career to move somewhere where your standards are actually gona be worst. Instead of that, why not just go to vacation to Tokyo? It would satisfy your desire for Japan a bit.

[survivor2021]

@Kwothe28

True. I'm aware of the cons of living not only in Japan but in the advanced Asian countries, as I always was targeting a 'similar' city to Tokyo, like Seoul or Singapore, you know, mega advanced big cities. Europe's big cities, as far as I know, can't be compared to those of Asia and are not as safe. But the problem is that the working culture generally is bad, also far from my home country, language barrier can be more tough, less vacation days compared to Europe. Europe has the advantage of the Schengen countries, so I can travel by train and in 2 hours I can be a different country... I understand.

That's why I slowly started to give up on Japan and Asian countries and ended up in Germany.

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Why don't you go on vacation there ? It would satisfy your desire for Japan a bit.

In fact, I'm afraid the opposite will happen. I'm afraid visiting Japan will make my obsession grow even and I will get spoiled by the differences such as the colored lights you see in the city center with all the ads and music that makes it feel it's like a party, while here in Munich, the city is very dark and it's sleepy and shops close early.. also customer service there is far better, city is much livelier. I believe they can be on par with cleanliness and safety but I don't know.

Anyway, I'd be lying to you and myself if I say the opposite but that's what I'm afraid of.. visiting the city and get spoiled and start to see it as indeed a 'better' place and an upgrade, as my father and brother called it.

[Wiseman2]

13 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

 I'm aware of the cons of living not only in Japan but in the .. visiting the city and get spoiled and start to see it as indeed a 'better' place and an upgrade, as my father and brother called it.

Please enjoy your job and life you built for yourself in Germany. There's no such thing as the "best city". It's a matter of preferences, tastes and opportunities. Please understand that they're just bragging and gloating. Please Do Not waste your money visiting your brother and father in Japan.  That will only play into this toxic dynamic. Let them visit you in Germany. 

[Lambert]

I think its fine to have a dream to live somewhere else someday. But it has to be on terms and conditions that are beneficial to your life.

It's part of being a successful person- making good, sound decisions. 

Your family sounds very immature, trying to manipulate you with ridiculous statements.

There is no best. There's only best for you and you current situation. So I wouldn't fall for their attempts to control you.  

If you won't have a good job there, how could it be best for you?  That literally makes no sense. You would either be working all the time, with no opportunities to enjoy the area or you'd be trapped under your family's control. 

The best place in the world is the place you can flourish, be independent and control your choices. 

[survivor2021]

@Lambert

They are not manipulative. I personally don't think this 'better city' should be brought up in the first place. But we have this complex of superiority in my family. It's like sitting with my friends and telling them, my university is the best one, when they study in others.. I don't know, it feels childish. Still it gets to me. They are not doing it on purpose, but I hate it.

[survivor2021]

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Please Do Not waste your money visiting your brother and father in Japan.  That will only play into this toxic dynamic. Let them visit you in Germany. 

Fun fact is that my father lived for nearly one year in Germany when he was young doing an internship and he won't stop gloating about it, like how he understands all Germans, and Germans this and Germans that, and he talks about them like a 'superior' race. 

This game of having them visit me will be playing into the game of gloating, and I don't think they will be that impressed after they visited places like Switzerland, UAE's Dubai and Tokyo. 

[Batya33]

14 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

Fun fact is that my father lived for nearly one year in Germany when he was young doing an internship and he won't stop gloating about it, like how he understands all Germans, and Germans this and Germans that, and he talks about them like a 'superior' race. 

This game of having them visit me will be playing into the game of gloating, and I don't think they will be that impressed after they visited places like Switzerland, UAE's Dubai and Tokyo. 

I would be concerned if I were you about how much you put Tokyo on this pedestal.  I think your expectations of what it would be like to actually live there are very unrealistic and while undoing that sort of move means just wasted time and $$ it seems like that would hit you even harder given your almost grandiose generalizations and expectations.

  I'm a former NY-er - NYC- for several decades and had  the notion that NYC was the center of the universe as a number of my friends still do.  It's - iconic, unique, vibrant, diverse -incredible -and it's not the center. We -my husband and son and I just got back from a 9 day trip out west/southwest US (no we don't live there now) - and for sure I am still a City Chick all the way- but expand your horizons a bit -I met Navajo indians, National Park Service employees/volunteers, visited 3 smaller cities where I have friends and family including friends and family who relocated there from larger cities, and while of course research helps a lot and crime statistic/work culture/social life matters- "wherever you go there you are" so if you are this obsessed with Tokyo my sense is you'll bring your penchant for obsessing with you and feel the crash and burn a lot more than others and realize your focus was way too biased. 

I recommend Alain De Boton's particular writings on travel for perspective.

Good luck and yes I'm happy to be back in our major -Non-NY -city, being in forests/hiking/the Grand Canyon -was - grand and inspiring -and for sure while I'm not obsessed with our current city I get the idealization of certain places above others. Just think you've gone a bit off the deep end perhaps and it has little to do with Tokyo or your family

[Lambert]

36 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

@Lambert

They are not manipulative. I personally don't think this 'better city' should be brought up in the first place. But we have this complex of superiority in my family. It's like sitting with my friends and telling them, my university is the best one, when they study in others.. I don't know, it feels childish. Still it gets to me. They are not doing it on purpose, but I hate it.

Of course you know better than I about your family.  The only reason I see it as manipulative is, if they are saying it to motivate you to move to them.  That is manipulative.

Your example of telling a friend your uni is best would also be manipulative, if you were saying it to get them to change schools.

Have you ever asked your family to stop saying these things to you? 

[Wiseman2]

36 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

This game of having them visit me 

Ok. None of you need to visit each other if there's this much rancor.  Who cares who's impressed with what city? 

[survivor2021]

@Wiseman2 I'd be happy to welcome them if the point is to have fun and enjoy vacations. In fact, I want my mother, who never traveled, to come visit me. Of course any family members are welcome. 

I don't plan or want to gloat or show off, but I want to stay away from people who do. With all that being said, I'd exclude my brother. We don't get along much, and in fact he played the "I live in Japan and you never traveled" card sometimes when I was in university to have the upper hand on some arguments. In fact, he is the type to gloat, but he doesn't do it directly to me unless we are having an argument.

It's just toxic and unhealthy as you see. What matters is that we are both happy with our lives where we live. My father loves these comparisons though. He tells my brother that Japan is the best place to make him feel satisfied, and in fact he told me after I decided to move to Germany, that Germany is the best country, and is slightly better than Japan.. That sounds pretty immature and he looks down on people who move to 'less fancy' countries, like Spain or Portugal or Italy..

[Wiseman2]

Perhaps your father is trying to deescalate this extreme sibling rivalry. If you are happy in Germany and your brother is happy in Japan there's really no issue. 

[survivor2021]

@Lambert

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Have you ever asked your family to stop saying these things to you? 

They don't say it directly to me. They talk about it casually when we are all together.

About the manipulation, my father wanted me to work for the family business too as he likes to please my uncle, the owner of the business, but I avoided it because of the toxic environment and didn't want to rely on nepotism to boost my career. He was against me moving to Japan and work in a different company because my uncle will get mad or something...

My brother doesn't want me in the company because he believes the company is trash and he keeps having arguments and fights every now and then ( not a healthy working environment either ), but was helping a bit when I asked him to send me names of companies and stuff.

[itsallgrand]

People who talk themselves up so much and others down like your brother are often the most insecure people. Ever think he might feel threatened that you actually broke off on your own path while he is still stuck beholden to the family? 

I have a few relatives who do this kind of thing but we are relatively close, and after they've blown off talking themselves up I hear all the things they aren't happy with. Everything has its cost, and if you are deciding what to pursue based on trying to compare with someone or something, the cost is often steep.

Getting away from being sucked into that mentality is pretty priceless imo. 

 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

@Wiseman2 I'd be happy to welcome them if the point is to have fun and enjoy vacations. In fact, I want my mother, who never traveled, to come visit me. Of course any family members are welcome. 

I don't plan or want to gloat or show off, but I want to stay away from people who do. With all that being said, I'd exclude my brother. We don't get along much, and in fact he played the "I live in Japan and you never traveled" card sometimes when I was in university to have the upper hand on some arguments. In fact, he is the type to gloat, but he doesn't do it directly to me unless we are having an argument.

It's just toxic and unhealthy as you see. What matters is that we are both happy with our lives where we live. My father loves these comparisons though. He tells my brother that Japan is the best place to make him feel satisfied, and in fact he told me after I decided to move to Germany, that Germany is the best country, and is slightly better than Japan.. That sounds pretty immature and he looks down on people who move to 'less fancy' countries, like Spain or Portugal or Italy..

So simply change the topic or end the convo.  My teenage son gets annoying - big surprise -with certain topics and I simply let him know when it's enough.  I was single and childless till age 42, chose a male-dominated career over a female-dominated one, took the long way around in many ways so believe me I got tons of unsolicited advice/comments/ comparisons galore.  And it doesn't end.  Because - OMG -I only had one child, I was a SAHM and now "only" work part time, etc etc etc.  It's life -there are always people who will give you unsolicited comparisons, comments, input - and there are tools you can do where you can avoid/ignore/assert boundaries particularly if it's someone close to you where you want to continue being close albeit with boundaries. 

Of course it takes regular practice and some self-talk but to me it's worth it.  Part of this is certainly in your control and if you stop subjecting yourself to triggers seems to me anyway your obsessive focus and intensity will decrease/fade.

[ShySoul]

Survivor2021, you sound like a muture person who has a mind of your own and knows what is best for you. You certainly sound like the most muture member of the family. So don't lose sight of what it is you want. As was said, the best place to be is the place that you can thrive at and be the best version of yourself. That's different for everyone. One place isn't necessarily better then anywhere else. And the people who feel the need to compare themselves to others or put down the choices someone makes, are generally masking insecurities themselves. So don't listen to them.

We unfortunately don't get to choose our biological families. But we can choose how that relationship goes. I've learned how to be civil and show I care for them, while drawing a line on what I will accept from them. If you're family starts in on immature or manipulative behavior, don't take it. Be clear you're not talking about it. Let them know you are happy with the life you choose. It's you're life, not theirs.