Nervous for a date

[Jaunty]

I agree that trying to make @Alex39 accept reality is futile and if we really want to help we will be doing so by being kind to her when she's crying about the latest indignity. 

Unfortunately she is so desperately chasing this guy that she's creating a terrible situation for herself.  This is all her own doing.  The guy, really, has been quite consistent and it's plain to see what he will do next.  Example:  The camping trip.  Bogus from the start.  

 

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Alex39 said:

I don't like not feeling like a priority though. 

When he tells you about these reschedules, is he saying "maybe" or he'll see if he can? But you assume they're dates written in stone?

Because it seems like you voice your disappointment and he tries to appease you but insincerity.

For example, he noted your "pet peeve" about last minute cancellations, so is simply cancelling sooner.

All you can do is see if he shows up today. It seems like he "reschedules" rather than just blowing you off, but then blows off these reschedules.

It seems like he doesn't want to spend much time with you but keeps you around because you have a house and cook him free meals.

It's not costing him any time, energy, inconvenience, or money to keep you on the back burner.

Start dating others while he's on vacation. This "exclusive" thing is just a title you pushed for.

[Sindy_0311]

8 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

All you can do is see if he shows up today

No in fact she shouldn't wait to see if he shows up, she should cancel... 

Doesn't that makes sense? Or am I the only one thinking she should cancel on him?

[Wiseman2]

37 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

 am I the only one thinking she should cancel on him?

 It's not going to happen. She's not going to teach him any lessons with that maneuver anyway. In fact he'll probably be thrilled she did the dirty work of cancelling for him.

[rainbowsandroses]

51 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

No in fact she shouldn't wait to see if he shows up, she should cancel... 

Doesn't that makes sense? Or am I the only one thinking she should cancel on him?

No, you're not the only one Sindy. See below.  

13 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

My advice would be to (1) politely tell him you can't make tomorrow after all and you'll talk to him when he returns from his trip, (2) do NOT text him tonight or talk on the phone, (3) go no contact until he's back from trip and let HIM contact you. 

Not as some sort of strategy to regain his interest or to teach him a lesson, but rather to get back to "herself" as she seems to have lost a bit of herself somewhere along the way. 

Agree with others, she won't though.   

She's addicted and like any addiction, she needs her 'fix'. 

 

 

 

[boltnrun]

Alex, at some point you're going to have to start again with your boyfriend search. It's just a matter of if it happens now or in a few weeks/months.

As for the friend you named as an example of a guy who was acting immaturely and then changed, was that guy a 29/30 year old? Or in his early 20s?

It seems to me like this guy you're involved with is enjoying being single after escaping from the restrictions of being married. He wants to party, drink, smoke cigars, stay out until 2:00 am and eat fast food. Maybe these were things he "couldn't" do while married and he's going a bit hog wild. Which is fine except you're going along for the ride and it's a bumpy ride. Maybe you think if you're patient he will eventually grow out of the party boy phase. 

So if you insist on staying attached to this guy just lower your expectations. You'll see him when he can squeeze you in between his partying and hanging out with his friends (who, incidentally, he never seems to cancel on) and when he doesn't feel like making time for you, you can do other things like join groups, go to exercise classes, attend events, etc. Make plans for yourself as though you don't have a "boyfriend" and if he happens to make time for you and you're available you can see him. Don't sit at home hoping he actually follows through with plans with you because you know he probably won't. If you can do this you might extend this for a while longer. And definitely don't view him as a long term prospect because he clearly isn't. 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Agree.  

She is obviously not going to break up, although we all agreed that this guy is a mess and isn’t that into her… 

See, two of my best friends are struggling with their marriage. They both want to divorce but they aren’t strong enough to do it. And these guys,their husbands, they are even worse than Alex’s. They humiliate and beat their wives. I’ve told my friends many times that they should leave but they can’t do so, not ready to hear that. That’s why Iearnt to adjust and talk on their level. Instead of repeating the same thing over and over again, I try to help them managing their marriage better by giving some basic advices… and I think it helps. I just listen to them and tell them things they are ready to hear. 

So, I think, at this point, the best we can do is help her going through this situation. Maybe by making him regain (or gain) interest. But this implies she gets some patience and stops wanting to rush things. One way to do it is to cancel on seeing him before he leaves, let him go on his trip and never reach out. @Alex39, you want this to work, in my opinion this is the only way it could work. If you don’t do it, no use to come back here complaining about him losing interest or bailing on you… 

You are a very good friend especially since you’re bending over backwards to find some way to support when you want to tear your hair out at times because obviously they should leave if abused. So - this isn’t abuse in this case but it’s similarly a tear one’s hair out situation. I totally get your approach if “support by helping them manage the reality of it - because they’re not leaving “ - but then if that is done - isn’t it also enabling that person to stay ? Or you mean make it slightly less damaging ?  I am conflicted in this situation whether advising her to be strong and cancel - even if she’s not gonna pull the plug - just enables her fantasy view and settling .  Very hard.
Again I totally get your approach - you want to be there as a good friend and not be totally silent on the issues. 

[Sindy_0311]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

You are a very good friend especially since you’re bending over backwards to find some way to support when you want to tear your hair out at times because obviously they should leave if abused. So - this isn’t abuse in this case but it’s similarly a tear one’s hair out situation. I totally get your approach if “support by helping them manage the reality of it - because they’re not leaving “ - but then if that is done - isn’t it also enabling that person to stay ? Or you mean make it slightly less damaging ?  I am conflicted in this situation whether advising her to be strong and cancel - even if she’s not gonna pull the plug - just enables her fantasy view and settling .  Very hard.
Again I totally get your approach - you want to be there as a good friend and not be totally silent on the issues. 

Yes I do want to tear my hair out, often times. And yes, I mean make it less damaging.They already know my point of view of their situation, especially one of them. After a few month repeating her that she should leave, trying to find solutions to help her doing it, she told me to stop that it wouldn't happen for the moment. So I changed my words and try to help her dealing with her situation the way I can by listening and supporting her. I also understood that not everyone is shaped to take though decisions and confront their fears. 

I think Alex isn't shaped either to prioritize herself and take decisions in her best interest. So, the only way to help her is by being empathetic, by encouraging her, listening without judgment, recognize and understand her emotions, and give her advices on the issues SHE sees...

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

Morning Alex, so what's the plan for today?  Will you be spending it together?  

It's a beautiful bright sunny day today in Michigan, hopefully you'll be spending it outdoors at a lake or something?

A picnic perhaps?  

Anyway, enjoy. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

32 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

by encouraging her....

What do you mean by encouraging her?   Encourage her to leave or encourage her to stay?  

Can you clarify? 

I think we can be sympathetic to a point, but I also think we need to be careful to not "enable" her.

This relationship has the potential to be quite detrimental to her emotional health and well being if she chooses to stay. 

 

 

 

[Sindy_0311]

22 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Can you clarify? 

I mean doing what you just did above. By sending positive energy, good vibes and checking on her....

[catfeeder]

13 hours ago, Jaunty said:

…Sometimes I feel like she's trolling us, to be honest.

At least two boards, apparently. I stopped believing that any of this was true a long time ago.

[Starlight925]

I have a similar situation with a friend; the situation is 2+ years now.

Any friends of hers that are even the slightest bit less-than-glowing about her situation causes her to recoil and back away from the entire friendship.

I have to just smile, nod, and say a lot of "mmm hmmms" when she tells me the stories going on in her situation.  

It's way worse than Alex's situation here, but not as bad as @Sindy_0311's friend's situation.

My point is, I just keep repeating to my friend:  "Hey, I just want you to be happy, and if this situation makes you happy, then it's not my place to say anything else".  This way, I'm not lying, nor am I giving unwanted advice.

So, @Alex39, if this situation makes you happy, then fine.

But you're here, and on another message board, so it appears you want advice.

I do admire how you've come back here, ~60 pages in, and you continue to respond to us.

That tells me that you at least hear what we are saying.  

But it appears that 25 of us posting basically the same message, get completely negated by one phone call from him.  And it's disheartening to watch.

[Jaunty]

4 hours ago, Sindy_0311 said:

No in fact she shouldn't wait to see if he shows up, she should cancel... 

Doesn't that makes sense? Or am I the only one thinking she should cancel on him?

Probably everyone agrees with you but it's a hilarious suggestion.    You might as well tell Alex to hijack a passenger plane this afternoon.

She is NOT going to cancel  plans with the guy, she is not going to take any kind of a stand.  She will be sitting there waiting for him to show up and maybe express about how being an afterthought to a man she's supposedly in a relationship with is her "pet peeve"  when he does not show up.  

That's it.  This is the relationship she's created and continues to choose for herself.  

I predict that ultimately he will manage to disengage but it will be difficult.   She is unlikely to let go.  

 

 

[Starlight925]

I'd be cancelling, but then again, I'd be cancelling the entire thing.

Because if you just cancel today, then you sit by the phone waiting for him to initiate the next move.  Who wants that?  Just cancel today and be done with it.

He doesn't get it, and he never will.

Cancelling at the last minute isn't a "pet peeve", it's irresponsible, immature, and just plain rude.

I dated a guy who only called me at the last minute for dates.  I told him it was a "pet peeve", so he called me one Sunday at around 3:00 pm for a date that night.  He asked if that was enough advance notice?  I said no, thank you so much, we are better off moving along from one another.

As so many have said, watch his actions, not his promises or pictures or emojis.  

You are using pictures, emojis, and promises of future dates, trips, gifts, as ways he's keeping you in the relationship, prioritizing you.  You have it backwards:  Showing up for the date, bringing the gift, taking you on the actual trip:  those are the ways you'll know he's prioritizing you.

[Jaunty]

I had a very close friend who was in an abusive relationship.  They consistently wanted to talk and go over in minute detail all of the indignities and abuse that was happening.   I was there for it for years, both being a sympathetic ear and also trying to help my friend get out.  Then it occurred to me that I really was enabling by playing the role that I was.  

Ultimately I made this a "no go" topic.   I was absolutely there to spend time, get my friend out and about, encourage them not to isolate.  I would do anything to help her get away.  But no more talking about the daily details of the toxic relationship.  

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

53 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

My point is, I just keep repeating to my friend:  "Hey, I just want you to be happy, and if this situation makes you happy, then it's not my place to say anything else".

Fair enough and I've done same with friends.

However, the issue here is that Alex is not happy, she was crying her eyes out on Sunday, she complains about not being made a priority, how she feels he squeezes her in when his friends aren't around, cancels dates, she feels like a loser, etc. 

To her credit, she is observing but at less than two months in, instead of walking away when not liking what she's observed, she chooses to stay regardless, relishing in the occasional scrap he tosses her.

That is what I find frustrating. I cannot speak for others. 

If she were truly happy, I would be happy for her but not the case here from what I've read.

[Starlight925]

1 minute ago, Jaunty said:

I had a very close friend who was in an abusive relationship.  They consistently wanted to talk and go over in minute detail all of the indignities and abuse that was happening.   I was there for it for years, both being an sympathetic ear and also trying to help my friend get out.  Then it occurred to me that I really was enabling by playing the role that I was.  

Ultimately I made this a "no go" topic.   I was absolutely there to spend time, get my friend out and about, encourage them not to isolate.  I would do anything to help her get away.  But no more talking about the daily details of the toxic relationship.  

 

You know, you've given me an idea as to how to deal with my friend in this 2+ year situation.

I know I'm veering off topic here, and I'm sorry.  

But it's just become so frustrating for me to be the one she leans on through this situation.  I've spent hours upon hours listening, helping, advising.  By the time we get to "So Starlight, how are you doing?", she's done, and my house could be on fire.  It's all about her and the minutiae in this godawful situation she's so "happy" with.

I need to just let go.  When I am silent, she gets upset with me, because she assumes my silence means I disapprove, and our friend group is not "allowed" to disapprove of her situation.

It's such a long and stupid story, and I hate people who derail threads, like I'm doing here....:)

With respect to how this relates to @Alex39.......Alex, do you want our advice?  Or do you want to use this as more of a journal, a stream of consciousness where you can write, vent, and re-read?

If you want our continued advice, we will give it.  But please know that so many of us have been in your shoes in so many different situations, we are coming from the future to tell you what you will look back on.

 

[LootieTootie]

I don't think Alex is lying... I know people who maintain the depressing status quo because its better telling themselves they aren't alone. 

I also have met plenty of people who love the idea they're in a relationship but they do nothing to show they're in a relationship. This is true for guys that are still very young-minded. Guys who want to keep living the bachelor life but also have a woman to come home to that will let them live however they please, cook and clean up after them, coddle them and agree with them. This is a parent-child relationship and there are men who look for that in a partner, someone who is maternal in their love style. 

The thing is, a person who sees you as a maternal figure isn't going to be in to you, because they recognize you as a mother figure first before anything else. This will affect the romance between you and in to the bedroom.

 

 

 

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

4 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

I don't think Alex is lying... I know people who maintain the depressing status quo because its better telling themselves they aren't alone. 

I also have met plenty of people who love the idea they're in a relationship but they do nothing to show they're in a relationship. This is true for guys that are still very young-minded. Guys who want to keep living the bachelor life but also have a woman to come home to that will let them live however they please, cook and clean up after them, coddle them and agree with them. This is a parent-child relationship and there are men who look for that in a partner, someone who is maternal in their love style. 

The thing is, a person who sees you as a maternal figure isn't going to be in to you, because they recognize you as a mother figure first before anything else. This will affect the romance between you and in to the bedroom.

Agree with this^ entire post.

Specifically to the bolded, I expressed the same sentiment in an earlier post.

He may view Alex as "all good and motherly" but men aren't typically sexually attracted to their mothers, so yes agree with @LootieTootie about that element of the relationship suffering, perhaps it's already started. 

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

My sister had a coworker who was like this.  She couldn’t get a real relationship, she was essentially the girl who was picked last in life.  She learned that mothering men meant that some of them would stay around.  She would buy groceries, cook, and stay at home watching Disney and Harry Potter themed shows, while the men were out cheating on her. 
 

she’d do exactly what Alex is doing, coming up with reasons and excuses for their behavior. “Maybe I’m too smothering, or not being understanding enough,” etc etc. She just couldn’t get herself to a point where she was able to lift the bar in what she would accept because having a boyfriend who cheated and used her, was preferable to her being the single person who went home to an empty house 

her friends, family, and coworkers all had partners and kids, and finally she had a semblance of something that she always hoped for. 
 

i walked in on her crying several times because her dates blew her off or slept with her and then left her for other women. But yet round and round, any time another man gave her an iota of attention she’d fall into the same cycle again, never learning. Instead she’d go on and on about how she’s there for them at their beck and call, but she’s never “good enough.” 
 

she was her own worst enemy. I actually thought Alex may have been her but some of the lifestyle details don’t add up 

[boltnrun]

Believe it or not my healthiest relationship was with my former husband. I never coddled, mothered or kowtowed to him or needed to make excuses for his behavior. He never blew me off (nor did I blow him off) and we prioritized one another without being overly accommodating or feeling like we had to "earn" the other one's attention or time. The desire and effort to spend time together was totally and completely mutual. 

Alex, I would love for you to have this. But some guy who would rather get drunk with his buddies until 2:00 am or who constantly cancels on you and shoves you aside in favor of partying or spending time with his friends isn't going to give you that.  And being "patient" or "understanding" is just giving him permission to treat you as an afterthought or as a last resort when he doesn't have anything else going on. You're much too sweet and valuable to settle for this. 

[LootieTootie]

4 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Believe it or not my healthiest relationship was with my former husband. I never coddled, kowtowed to him or needed to make excuses for his behavior. He never blew me off (nor did I blow him off) and we prioritized one another without being overly accommodating or feeling like we had to "earn" the other one's attention or time. The desire and effort to spend time together was totally and completely mutual. 

Yes this with my husband. Once you settled for scraps and crumbs from mr/ms. wrong... What you are essentially doing is you're stopping yourself from actually finding someone who can tick all those boxes you had on your checklist prior to meeting this mr. wrong or ms. wrong. Even if it can't be all those boxes, there has to be someone way better than your guy right now Alex. Because he aint ticking even a few of the boxes you had previously.

I dated many guys in my 20s and they were all very young-minded. I bump into some here and there and it's crazy how these guys are about to be 40 and still act very "bachelor." 

 

[Alex39]

I do want all of your advice still. I've learned a lot from all of you and I hear you. 

I hung out with him today. We initially sat out in the sun and talked and enjoyed a cold drink. We did this for about an hour. Then we ran to the mall and he had me help him pick out some clothes for his trip. It was actually fun and he really wanted my input. Then we were starving so he took me for lunch. 

Then we went back to my place. We cuddled up for a little, we fell asleep. He initially said he didn't want to get intimate, because he felt dirty and hadn't showered today, only yesterday. I was looking forward to being intimate. Then he said he also didn't want to just have sex and leave right after because he felt that was disrespectful to me. I can appreciate that. So we cuddled up for an hour, fell asleep, then he left to hangout with his guy friends. 

He told me a bit more about his past relationships. 

So he was in a 6 year serious relationship well into his 20s. They broke up and he said he was lost, lonely, rebounding, so he quickly met a girl, and they got married after a month. His now ex-wife. 

He said he quickly realized that he hadn't gotten over his ex, and he started texting her, but not inappropriately and never met up with her.  He was trying to make his new marriage work too, but the girl he married wasn't classy or what he thought. She was off meeting other guys and sleeping with them. He said it was a mess. He's glad he got divorced. 

He's gone out with a few women here and there, but he does feel over his past and said he feels ready for a new serious relationship.  

He said how we can do some good things when he comes back from his trip. Go to the movies, a nice dinner. We'll see if it happens. 

I like him and I do think we make a nice couple, but I want more. I want more affection, more clear time, more prioritization, more dedication. Like I mentioned today how we should replace the camping trip with something else. He said sure and asked what I wanted. We were a bit distracted in the store, but I was trying to tell him how we could go to this place that I love and stay a night in a cabin and stuff. I didn't feel like he was paying attention or cared. I don't need expensive, but I want someone who wants to do things with me. 

[rainbowsandroses]

I hope Alex is reading these later posts, really good and valuable information!

I've read a ton of great books and articles discussing this and the mindset of such women is that the more understanding, patient, nurturing, giving and loving they are, even when treated like yesterday's news, eventually they will be "rewarded" with HIS love.

Sadly, it very rarely if ever works out that way.

What's more likely to happen is the man will eventually view her as weak, a doormat and lose respect for her. 

In his convoluted mind, this gives him license to cheat leaving the woman shattered and heartbroken.

Natalie Lue has written many articles and books about it.

One I recommend is "Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl," I learned a TON from that book! 

Also her Baggage Reclaim series.  

They both discuss this very thing.