She's backed away after a great second date, how to proceed?

[Wiseman2]

17 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

 she replied enthusiastically right away saying it sounds amazing .

Yes definitely cut back on the text conversations. Set up the date for when she's back. 

There's no harm in having a meeting with the pub woman in the meantime.

Keep your promise to yourself to refrain from the "fun flirty" texts.  Texting is not dating.

[Batya33]

19 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Yes definitely cut back on the text conversations. Set up the date for when she's back. 

There's no harm in having a meeting with the pub woman in the meantime.

Keep your promise to yourself to refrain from the "fun flirty" texts.  Texting is not dating.

Make sure you text and set up a specific time/place -she agreed to a vague maybe plan after being wishy washy.  What I would have done -and I do this with new platonic friends- is ask which day next week is good. My future husband was going out of town and planned our next date (the date where he said he wanted to get back together) two weeks in advance including the time.  You can always change it if needed.

[MrMan1983]

25 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Make sure you text and set up a specific time/place -she agreed to a vague maybe plan after being wishy washy.  What I would have done -and I do this with new platonic friends- is ask which day next week is good. My future husband was going out of town and planned our next date (the date where he said he wanted to get back together) two weeks in advance including the time.  You can always change it if needed.

Yep I haven't text back yet so that was going to be my next one.

[boltnrun]

3 hours ago, MrMan1983 said:

Yep I haven't text back yet so that was going to be my next one.

Why not stop using text as communication? Why won't you call her to setup the date instead of endlessly typing back and forth? Texting is so impersonal.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

Why not stop using text as communication? Why won't you call her to setup the date instead of endlessly typing back and forth? Texting is so impersonal.

Yes now I recall I recommended that earlier

[MrMan1983]

Update: She has started initiating contact a lot more often again now (I keep it short but light in response) and she's moved back to the language we had at the start, we brought up the activity again earlier so I asked her what days she's free so I can get it booked in and get off the phone. Heard nothing back for hours then she started texting me back about something completely different (which was admittedly something funny that had just happened) but frustrated me that my question above had been ignored.

Maybe I'm the back up guy or as was mentioned above she's only lukewarm, unless of course she comes back to my message by the end of today. I'll probably just leave her be as I was direct about trying to book it and surely if she was keen to see me she would of tried to set a date.

Thankfully I feel mentally relaxed about it all now unlike before, just a bit bemused.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, MrMan1983 said:

Update: She has started initiating contact a lot more often again now (I keep it short but light in response) and she's moved back to the language we had at the start, we brought up the activity again earlier so I asked her what days she's free so I can get it booked in and get off the phone. Heard nothing back for hours then she started texting me back about something completely different (which was admittedly something funny that had just happened) but frustrated me that my question above had been ignored.

Maybe I'm the back up guy or as was mentioned above she's only lukewarm, unless of course she comes back to my message by the end of today. I'll probably just leave her be as I was direct about trying to book it and surely if she was keen to see me she would of tried to set a date.

Thankfully I feel mentally relaxed about it all now unlike before, just a bit bemused.

I'm glad you feel relaxed because that is a great sign.  That shows you know your worth -you now know you gave it yet another chance and she's treating you like a chat buddy.  I mean I don't know about other gals but if a man I was into wanted to take me out again I'd have to practically tape my mouth shut to avoid jumping in and saying "yes I'm free! when???" and play it a tad bit cooler.  And I'd make sure it was buttoned down. Then I'd feel free to chat about whatever.

[Bvc476]

Remember, a girl who likes you will be happy that you're texting her. She may simply be busy, it's best not to overthink it yet. It's not because you were over eager. If you were sending her 20 texts in a row literally every second then maybe that would've scared her away but if it was a fairly normal amount of texts that's not it. Just send a follow up text either now or the next day, asking how she is and tell her your plans for the next date. Two excuses in a row seem a bit weird indeed but you never know. Just see what happens then, if she starts responding 2 days later consistently and waits too long to go out again then that might be concerning. 

[boltnrun]

Why can't you just call her and ask her out? Why rely on texting?

It doesn't matter if texting is your usual means of communication with her. Obviously things are getting lost, misconstrued or overlooked with these texts. An actual phone conversation could easily clarify. 

[Bvc476]

1 hour ago, MrMan1983 said:

Update: She has started initiating contact a lot more often again now (I keep it short but light in response) and she's moved back to the language we had at the start, we brought up the activity again earlier so I asked her what days she's free so I can get it booked in and get off the phone. Heard nothing back for hours then she started texting me back about something completely different (which was admittedly something funny that had just happened) but frustrated me that my question above had been ignored.

Maybe I'm the back up guy or as was mentioned above she's only lukewarm, unless of course she comes back to my message by the end of today. I'll probably just leave her be as I was direct about trying to book it and surely if she was keen to see me she would of tried to set a date.

Thankfully I feel mentally relaxed about it all now unlike before, just a bit bemused.

Yes, wait till the end of the day to see if she says anything about it. If she doesn't just ask her again 'So what days work for you? You didn't respond'. If she doesn't respond again then just suggest a day and time yourself. 

[Jibralta]

16 hours ago, MrMan1983 said:

surely if she was keen to see me she would of tried to set a date.

I agree.

At least you feel more relaxed about the whole thing.

[MrMan1983]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:32 PM, Bvc476 said:

Yes, wait till the end of the day to see if she says anything about it. If she doesn't just ask her again 'So what days work for you? You didn't respond'. If she doesn't respond again then just suggest a day and time yourself. 

So in the end I waited till today to bring it up again via voice note - I know I know should call but just felt a bit uncomfortable doing that. So I joked a bit about our last topic (which she had initiated) and then straight up asked if she was still up for Ninja Warrior this week and said these slots are free on Friday, and these are free on Saturday and to let me know when works best for her if she’s up for it….4 hours later she comes onto WhatsApp listens to it and simply gives it a laughing face response (guessing to the start of the message) yet did not even respond to the rest at least yet. 
 

Shes been on and offline plenty since so I think unless she’s trying to arrange a free evening (wishful thinking) it’s safe to say she’s done with me as far as dating is concerned considering it’s confirmed the actual making a date messages are being ghosted (thought it was poss the first one wasn’t deliberate). Or waiting to see what Channing Tatum is up to before responding. 
 

Much prefer it when people can just say thanks but no thanks. I get that it’s a way of avoiding an awkward convo but in response I would of simply said thanks for letting me know, was nice meeting and all the best for the future instead of being left wondering. Specially odd whilst she’s still flirting/texting me about other stuff.

Ah well, least I know now for sure.

 

[Kwothe28]

38 minutes ago, MrMan1983 said:

Much prefer it when people can just say thanks but no thanks. I get that it’s a way of avoiding an awkward convo but in response I would of simply said thanks for letting me know, was nice meeting and all the best for the future instead of being left wondering. Specially odd whilst she’s still flirting/texting me about other stuff.

 

That is on you to stop. There is no reason to continue this when she just doesnt want to date you but just to keep you there. You gain nothing from that and its hinderance for you going forward. So, if you got her answer, cut her out completely. There is no shame in that and its fair thing to do.

[MissCanuck]

You shot your shot, OP. Fair play to you. 

I would stop contacting her for good. She's a time-waster. 

[catfeeder]

If she messages you anything else but the answer to your date question, I wouldn't bother replying.

Head high, and go see the pub lady.

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, MrMan1983 said:

 she comes onto WhatsApp listens to it and simply gives it a laughing face response  yet did not even respond to the rest at least yet. 

It's good you put it out there. Now step back and see if she gives you a straight answer instead of this type of nonsense.

[MrMan1983]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

If she messages you anything else but the answer to your date question, I wouldn't bother replying.

Head high, and go see the pub lady.

Yep I’ve got a feeling I’m not getting a response at all, seems every time I get back into online dating I come across this flakey indecisiveness even when things start well. Shame as it had been a long time since I felt that initial excitement with someone but it is what it is.

Time to head for a run and gym sesh, sure that’ll help the negative vibe. 

Anyway, I’ve messaged pub girl to get the ball rolling with her 🤞

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, MrMan1983 said:

Yep I’ve got a feeling I’m not getting a response at all, seems every time I get back into online dating I come across this flakey indecisiveness even when things start well. Shame as it had been a long time since I felt that initial excitement with someone but it is what it is.

Time to head for a run and gym sesh, sure that’ll help the negative vibe. 

Anyway, I’ve messaged pub girl to get the ball rolling with her 🤞

Good for  you!  I like your strategy and outlook a lot.

I met many men through dating sites but never tried to date online.  I experienced flakey indecisiveness in real life just the same as through dating sites- I think those people who choose to type and talk back and forth at length and "date" online are far more likely to encounter flakiness because people on dating sites to meet people in real life want to meet ASAP.  Less risk of flakiness.  

The first almost 20 years I dated were mostly with landline and voicemail (and at first no voice mail).  There was flakiness then too just the same with the only difference being that if a man didn't call the woman's landline and catch her at home and pin down a date in advance he likely would never interact with her again so the flaky types were more "hidden" - there would simply be silence or no follow up after one initial meeting in person or one mention of a set up for a blind date. 

The back and forth simply didn't happen the same way without all the communication technology.  I know of one guy who I met in his 20s -my then boyfriend's BFF's little brother. So handsome, smart, successful.  Very flaky and indecisive about dating. 

When he was in his 30s I set him up with my friend's younger sister -his age, really pretty and successful, lived nearby.  I believe he saw a photo.  He had her number and all he had to do was call her (this would have been in the 2000s so he could have emailed I guess, too).  A year later he asked me if he still could call her -gave a lame excuse. I told him -she met someone (turned out to be her future husband).  I thought it was thoughtless of him even to consider calling a year later. So - my friend's sister knew he had her number but probably brushed it aside since there was no actual interaction. 

So yes old school flakiness was alive and well! (The little brother is now around 50, single, last serious relationship of more than a few months likely was decades ago).

[MrMan1983]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Good for  you! I met many men through dating sites but never tried to date online.  I experienced flakey indecisiveness in real life just the same as through dating sites- I think those people who choose to type and talk back and forth at length and "date" online are far more likely to encounter flakiness because people on dating sites to meet people in real life want to meet ASAP.  Less risk of flakiness.  

The first almost 20 years I dated were mostly with landline and voicemail (and at first no voice mail).  There was flakiness then too just the same with the only difference being that if a man didn't call the woman's landline and catch her at home and pin down a date in advance he likely would never interact with her again so the flaky types were more "hidden" - there would simply be silence or no follow up after one initial meeting in person or one mention of a set up for a blind date. 

The back and forth simply didn't happen the same way without all the communication technology.  I know of one guy who I met in his 20s -my then boyfriend's BFF's little brother. So handsome, smart, successful.  Very flaky and indecisive about dating. 

When he was in his 30s I set him up with my friend's younger sister -his age, really pretty and successful, lived nearby.  I believe he saw a photo.  He had her number and all he had to do was call her (this would have been in the 2000s so he could have emailed I guess, too).  A year later he asked me if he still could call her -gave a lame excuse. I told him -she met someone (turned out to be her future husband).  I thought it was thoughtless of him even to consider calling a year later. So - my friend's sister knew he had her number but probably brushed it aside since there was no actual interaction. 

So yes old school flakiness was alive and well! (The little brother is now around 50, single, last serious relationship of more than a few months likely was decades ago).

Damn, let that be a lesson in not being flaky aye! Now he finds himself at 50 and potentially lonely.

I've been guilty of indecisiveness then kicking myself in the past but learnt from that now, also just tell people in a polite way after a date if I'm not quite feeling things. It's never fun to do but it's better than the 'slow fade' or even worse that straight up ghosting people do. In fact not even sure which of the latter two is more frustrating.

Now I've reached 40 - not that old by any means, but had always thought I would be a settled family man by now not in this situation - it's certainly put things in perspective with what I want and to just go for it when I am interested in someone.

Think I'll try and meet people in the real world more often than online dating from now, just finding the places and situations that it's possible more often.

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, MrMan1983 said:

Damn, let that be a lesson in not being flaky aye! Now he finds himself at 50 and potentially lonely.

I've been guilty of indecisiveness then kicking myself in the past but learnt from that now, also just tell people in a polite way after a date if I'm not quite feeling things. It's never fun to do but it's better than the 'slow fade' or even worse that straight up ghosting people do. In fact not even sure which of the latter two is more frustrating.

Now I've reached 40 - not that old by any means, but had always thought I would be a settled family man by now not in this situation - it's certainly put things in perspective with what I want and to just go for it when I am interested in someone.

Think I'll try and meet people in the real world more often than online dating from now, just finding the places and situations that it's possible more often.

I'm glad you have that outlook. I was picky in how I reacted after a date. I preferred total silence if the man wasn't interested in going on a real first date after a first meet or a second or third date- silence to me was perfectly fine and meant lack of interest. I thanked him on the date to resist the urge for the silly transparent follow up email to "thank" the person [and please please ask me out again!!!].  I never felt ghosted by silence. 

I responded to men I wasn't interested in if I felt it was safe to do so. It was not alway safe to do so. 

Two men reached out to me and wanted specific reasons why I declined another date. I gave them specific reasons.  Becasue there were.  Each one -months later -emailed me to thank me - I didn't see either one again!  There was a third man who forgot we'd met and contacted me again on the site -I told him we'd met -he said he didn't remember what happened -I told him the truth - which was that I was put off by how disparaging he was of his coworkers -he relayed information to me and it included calling them names -to me -that were tasteless. It was not a good look for a first meet. 

He said he didn't remember and that his parents had had a bad first date.  I declined to meet him again. 

To me flaky was promising to call and not, promising to follow up about a planned date and not, being late with no apology, etc.  But I stopped interacting if after the first phone call there was no plan to meet in person.  So I probably screened out more flaky types.

[lostandhurt]

Op

What have you learned from all this and will you put it all into practice the next time???

I ask because you seemed to acknowledge your mistakes but then continued to repeat them.

 If you would have called her on the phone (as suggested multiple times by multiple people) there is no way she could avoid answering your question about the date.  Hiding behind texting or online messages in these instances is a bad idea.  It isn't even being brave to actually call a woman and talk to her on the phone or at least it didn't used to be.  What is the worst thing that could happen?  She doesn't answer?

  Texting and response time between texts comes up on here all the time as people are asking "what do you think this means?" "Is this a good sign?"  "He/She left in on read for hours and hasn't responded"

 Don't keep falling into the trap.

Lost

 

[MrMan1983]

1 hour ago, lostandhurt said:

Op

What have you learned from all this and will you put it all into practice the next time???

I ask because you seemed to acknowledge your mistakes but then continued to repeat them.

 If you would have called her on the phone (as suggested multiple times by multiple people) there is no way she could avoid answering your question about the date.  Hiding behind texting or online messages in these instances is a bad idea.  It isn't even being brave to actually call a woman and talk to her on the phone or at least it didn't used to be.  What is the worst thing that could happen?  She doesn't answer?

  Texting and response time between texts comes up on here all the time as people are asking "what do you think this means?" "Is this a good sign?"  "He/She left in on read for hours and hasn't responded"

 Don't keep falling into the trap.

Lost

 

I've learnt that the phone is for setting dates and not endless chit chat/flirting which needs to be saved for the date. I knew that already deep down but let myself get reeled into the excitement and her use of lots of messaging (on multiple occasions). Big big mistake.

I get that I should of called too but I felt with her busy lifestyle that I might be interrupting her day randomly when with her daughter or family as she's often with them, felt messaging/voice noting was less intrusive as she could check those when convenient but I know I could of sent a message to confirm a call in advance. I agree though phone calls are a much better habit to get into.

I've heard back from pub girl and she's up for a date next Saturday so that's something at least and thankfully not seen her on any of the apps yet.

[lostandhurt]

Good news on the new woman for sure.

As for calling try calling when you have a good idea she is not busy like a few hours after work but not at dinner time.  If the woman doesn't answer leave this message "Hi ________ looks like I missed you, I will try back another time"  Then just leave it for a few days.  Don't leave a message asking her to call you back as that leaves you waiting and waiting.  If the woman is interested 9 times out of 10 they will call you back without prompting which is a good sign.  If they don't then wait a few days and call again.

 This takes a ton of guessing on your part out of the equation and also keeps you from wasting time and possibly missing out on someone else.

 Here are a few words to avoid when asking a woman on a date. "wondering" "hoping" "if you have time"

"I was wondering if you would like to go on a date with me"  "I was hoping you would like to meet for a drink"  "if you have time sometime give me a call"  These are all passive which is not good.

 The fact that you are here trying to improve is a very good sign.

Best of luck with the new woman.

Lost

[boltnrun]

I agree. Don't hide behind words on a screen or a recorded message. You may think doing that would make rejection easier to take but as you've found it really doesn't. You're left hanging, wondering and waiting and unsure of where you stand.

CALL the woman. After a cheerful greeting and asking how her day went, say something like "There's a little Thai restaurant I've heard has great food. I'd love to take you to dinner there. Are you available Friday evening?" Give her a chance to respond. 

Good luck with the new woman you met. 

[catfeeder]

Glad to see you're onto the next person, and sorry this flake took up so much of your focus and time.

I respect those who advise calling, but frankly, if someone isn't responsive to a message, I just don't see how a phone call would remedy that.

Early dating is a crap shoot where either person can nix the other for reasons that even they may not fully understand.

The goal is simpatico.

While that might exist face to face, life can get in the way. So when simpatico is strong enough, another date will happen simply--no pretzeling required. Otherwise, jumping through hoops to push for it is ... an unnecessary waste of your time.

SHE knows how to reach YOU if there's a bump in her road that sidelines her and she recovers from that.

You come across as smart and energetic and attractive. So? Keep meeting potential dates, ask the ones you like for dates, and if you continue to like them, keep asking for dates OR hold back enough at some point to learn whether they will reciprocate. 

But don't frazzle yourself over anyone, no matter how terrific she 'seems' unless she returns an olive branch of reciprocation when you contact her.

Head high, and while nixing nervous over-messaging is smart, don't muzzle yourself and your energy and your humor just because someone faded on you. That's on her. You deserve to find your simpatico by relaxing and being YOU!