The Modern Dilemma! Opinions on Modern Dating, Love, Life and Career!

[mylolita]

Hi all of ENA!

 

This has jumped off another thread! I wanted to try and follow on the discussion!

 

Modern life - millennial generation - online dating - women and careers - career or motherhood? Can you have both? Or can you just not have both, at the same time?

 

Is the modern man getting left out in the cold? Is online dating really good for us? Too much choice? All based on appearances? 
 

Are we settling later in life - doing everything later. Is this making us happy, or discontent? 
 

What’s going on ENA! I want to hear your opinions and experiences! Men, women, married; single, in relationships! Pop your ten pence piece! Are you struggling with dating? Why do you think that is? Do you feel societies expectations don’t align with your own?
 

This may go dead in the water! But please, fire away!

 

This is - OFF TOPIC! 
 

x

[kctiger]

This is interesting to me because I got out of a long term relationship back in January. We lived together and were engaged, due to be wed in May. I haven't gotten to the point where I am ready to jump back into the dating world. I know it's been 10 months now, but I just do not have the bandwidth to actively pursue dating. Now if something came up, then fine, but I'm not doing online dating right now. Some key points:

1. I'm an attractive male, 40 years old, with a very good career
2. No issues talking to women
3. Highly independent 
4. I've rebuilt my life around traveling and doing things I'm passionate about
5. I refuse to settle and that almost happened with my last relationship. Now it's become even more of a priority. If I don't find the "right" one, so be it. 

So prior to my 4 year relationship, I did online dating. I feel like in our current world, you almost have to do this to give yourself some options. In general, when I go out to bars with my friends, I'm not there to pick up women, so I don't use that as an opportunity to prospect. My thoughts regarding online dating, which may help explain why I'm not in a hurry to do it:

1. It's a grind, and can get very expensive depending on your dates (where you two go)
2. 90% of the women I've met look vastly different than the glamorous photos they've posted
3. Yes, online dating is based on attraction, for the most part. If I see what I consider an attractive woman, but her beliefs or values don't 100% align with mine, I'm more inclined to at least get in touch. If I'm not attracted to the woman at all, I won't bother contacting regardless if they align perfectly with my beliefs, etc. But to be fair, all dating is based on physical attraction, at least at first. So while online dating exacerbates this, I don't think it's something new. I wouldn't walk up to someone in person whom I didn't find physically attractive. 
4. It can be very awkward, but that's dating in general. It's about as close to the modern century "blind date" gets
5. Going back to options, with online dating, people are talking to several other prospects at once. So it becomes a game of attrition at a certain point. 
6. There are a significant amount of dating gurus online offering advice, which some may or may not follow. But this has turned dating into a giant game of trying to read the other person and decipher their true intentions or motives. 

I'll stop commenting for now. Curious where other people fall, especially guys. Online dating takes a lot of effort and, as stated, I just don't care enough to try right now, but I'll eventually have to get myself back on. Oddly enough, I've had a lot of dates from online dating, but never dated any person I met. The most dates I went on with a woman I met online was 2. There rest were 1 and done. 

[Seraphim]

Well, I am not a millennial, I am Gen X and had a career and a family. My mom is a Boomer and had both. 
 

Personally, I think society is going back 50 years or more in the ways it has been divided. The things my mom’s generation and mine fought so hard to have have gone up in smoke. I could cry. 

[boltnrun]

38 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

The things my mom’s generation and mine fought so hard to have have gone up in smoke. I could cry. 

Yeah, some American media personality just said he doesn't like the way single women are voting and that they should get married and have their husbands tell them how to vote. He wrapped that up by saying "guys, put a ring on it!" An, um, "interesting" perspective. I've been married and my husband never directed me on how to vote. He trusted that I was intelligent enough to decide on my own. Which I am, BTW, as are all humans.

I got married fairly young, barely old enough to buy a beer. I never had a career but instead have had jobs. I was never interested in a high powered career or in climbing the corporate ladder. I just wanted to make a decent living. However, when I did try to be a stay at home mom I only lasted five months before I went running back to work, albeit part time. I needed that adult human interaction. And I think it made me a better mother, plus my child loved preschool and made tons of friends and got a leg up in socialization and learning things like his letters, colors, songs, etc.

I never did online dating after my divorce. I generally met men at activities I was involved in. I'm a big sports fan, like going to car shows and events and was involved with a semi-pro sports team. So, lots of men there. I'm not currently dating, but if I start again I'll likely just attend events and join social groups. Maybe take some classes. 

[Mammalyssa]

I love this topic because I feel that I've lived both worlds of being a dependant wife and an independant woman. 

The short story is - was raised in an extreme religion and introduced to the man I'd marry at 19. I did this. Had no career and depended on him financially. Had a baby at 22 and another at 26. When I was caring for my first born I had the realisation that being financially dependant on my husband meant if anything ever went wrong for my daughter and I, we would be stuck. We were also very poor on one wage and at one point had to move back in with my parents after making a poor financial decision that pretty well ruined us. 

So with a 1 year old I studied nursing externally and full time. It was rough. My husband wasn't happy. He kept encouraging me to quit especially when I was struggling to cope with the pressure of studying. I almost gave in several times, but kept pushing through. 

Fast forward to the age of 33. I'd been working part time as a nurse for years and had still allowed  my husband to make the decisions. He moved us interstate away from my family. I felt so isolated without any help, and I realised then how much I had relied on my mother for support with the kids. He did nothing to help me. I'd come home from work after doing a 40 min round trip to pick up the kids after work, to find he'd been sitting on the couch drinking since mid-day. Still leaving me to deal with the kids and leaving me to get dinner with a toddler screaming at my legs. My son was so very very clingy and temperamental, I really really struggled. 

At 31 I made a plan. I saved money and put it aside in another account. I bought random house items and put them away in a cupboard. And then when I was 33 and had saved 7k, I left him. Moved into a unit. I took only the queen sized bed from the spare room and the things I had stored away. I never took anything more from him because I wanted nothing from him. My husband and my 10yr old daughter were so devistated. Even 5 years later I know my husband still loves me. But I cannot and will not be with him again. I'm not a submissive wife. 

In the meantime... I made goals. I took my nursing career into aboriginal health where I moved into other areas. I ended up designing an emergency room for my employer and assisted with managing the operations and staffing of this when it was complete. From here they asked me to open a new clinic, which I designed and then managed. While working there I landed a job as a trek nurse. I started cross-fit to get super strong, then with my new job I trekked kokoda 3 times and Everest base camp once. 

Things were going so well - I bought a new car, built a house and studied a full time post grad degree in emergency nursing, all whilst being a single mum, as my ex husband had moved states and gone back to his mother. So with no family support I did it all and I felt like super woman. There was nothing I couldn't achieve. 

But.. all of this was so exhausting. My kids were living in a whirlwind of routine. Get up, breakfast, school, work, sports, home, dinner, crossfit home, bed. I didn't stop from 6am til 9pm every single day. My mum would fly up to help me when I had am overseas trek. I took out life insurance to ensure my kids would be set if I died. 

Yes I was crazy. I was proving a point to myself that I could do it all. But for what? 

I'm still this crazy but I have slowed it right down. I've achieved everything I could want to and still found myself stuck in an unbalanced relationship. This time it's me that's been the breadwinner, running my own business. And I'm having to make plans on how to not lose financially this time.  

There is a balance in there somewhere. But being financially independant as a woman is very empowering. I would never have it another way. It equates to freedom for me.  

Am still working out what the balance actually is. And I'd prefer not to be working it out by making mistakes, but we are an imperfect race with unique individuals. So no one can tell us what is right for each of us. 

I dont know if my story answers your questions, I may have to try again! Lol

[Kwothe28]

5 hours ago, mylolita said:

Are you struggling with dating? Why do you think that is? Do you feel societies expectations don’t align with your own?

Eh, so so...

I had a pretty good year finance- wise. I do freelance work so this year I had a few very lucrative jobs. On top of that I made some strides into pursuing a job in my degree(education). So I managed to nab some part time administrative jobs in government due to my political connections. Which in turn made me more connections and got me on short list for my own job within school. I was even suppose to get one this week but principal hired somebody on her own(higher ups were mad because of it, she didnt asked them which is a norm). I have no luck regarding my own job, that is second or third time job slips up to me at the last second. You need insanely good connections here for jobs like that. 

But it has been a pretty good year. I live in a center of small town. So never saw a need for a car when everything is close. But financial situation is pretty good so planning on buying one soon. At least I could drive around and pursue more wide range jobs if needed. 

Anyway, my college years have been a blast. When I came back in home town, it took a tall on me. Had some deaths within family, and I left some very hard exams for last so I took time to actually finish my college. As a result I wasnt in a really good head- space regarding dating. I did go out and date but nothing really sticked for a long time. Only after finishing college I decided to be more serious about it. That means no more ONS, affairs, and stuff like that. So last couple of years I did get serious.

And with so-so effects. I was pretty passive but I did get active a lot last 2 years or so. Girls I dated were usually cute, college educated, independent. But none sticked around from various reason. My job is maybe not "flashy" enough as to most people I just type something in computer from home and get money. Part of the reason I decided to pursue more part time "real jobs" is meeting people and getting connections. But still I earn more then enough with my old one. Some people work here 8+ hours shifts, 6 days a week and still dont get to money I get for my work from home part time. But its still not regarded as an actual job here according to people(whole freelance field is fairly new here). So, maybe aquiring job within my field helps even with dating lol. Lots of times I did not get taken seriously. Even when I did form a relationship. Maybe that is on me. Though I console myself that very large portion of those girls are also still single so maybe the problem wasnt me but just my choices. Still I got very dissapointed by some. But I was always a "stubborn fighter". Meaning that my "failings" just made me work on myself more and push forward. So I just do that no matter what happens.

Anyway, sorry for a rant about my hardships.

Also I still regard online dating as a cesspool of people looking for a validation and not a real connection. Too many choices like in a candy shop so as a result your hapiness is diluted and you are never happy with your choices as there is always somebody better just a swipe away. Its like seeking a needle in a haystack there if you are looking anything serious. Even worst for an average guy. At least average girl can get an infinite ammount of likes. Average guy would be happy to get some. Out of that some, you would maybe get some coonversations and if you are lucky, dates. Its very hard out there so I understand the hardship of the guy from the last thread regarding it. 

[Mammalyssa]

Ok, I'm trying again! It's really easy on this topic to blab about your own life!! Lol 

 

Modern life - millennial generation - online dating - women and careers - career or motherhood? Can you have both? Or can you just not have both, at the same time?

I'm a gen Y and the differences in men in my generation are on thr edge of the change that came about. Some are progressive and understand that women want equality in relationships now. It's hard if you want that as a woman and can't get that. It's more acceptable to be a divorced, single woman now so that's also something to consider. You can def have a career and motherhood.. but it does cost you that time you could be spending with your kids. My mother had a career and I remember feeling like she had no time for us. She also propped up the family from financial ruin which now as an adult I can see was so important. And also so rare for her generation. I guess I took a leaf from her book. 

 

Is the modern man getting left out in the cold? Is online dating really good for us? Too much choice? All based on appearances?  

I dont think the modern man is left out because I think the modern man has also become as picky as women have about their life partner.  People are looking for perfection in all areas whilst not being perfect themselves, so if it's harder these days.. perhaps people are not looking inward enough.  Online dating makes things pretty easy, but also shallow/superficial. It's pretty lazy. I hated it and I met a few frogs. I still prefer going to the pub and meeting real people. 

 

Are we settling later in life - doing everything later. Is this making us happy, or discontent? 

Yes I notice this. People I went to school with are having babies now in their 30s.  And I'm here with my 15 and 10 yr old. Whatever floats your boat... I probably had a crisis because I was too young and I felt I missed out on my young years. But I'm also grateful now that my kids are older and I'm getting some freedoms back. I'll be 45 when my youngest is 18, which I think is fabulous! I think people will be unhappy no matter what.. the grass is always greener isn't it. 

[Wiseman2]

17 hours ago, mylolita said:

 Do you feel societies expectations don’t align with your own.

No. I think the philosophy of you're born into the world and need to figure it out and be the architect of your life is better than thinking the world needs to be shaped around our minds. People who are ridgid seem unable to adapt and therefore try to change everyone and everything around them.  Sadly the sine qua non of many personality disorders is rigidity and inability to be adaptive for the best outcome. It sort of reminds me of those lab mice who just keep going down the same blind alleys over and over .

[mylolita]

16 hours ago, kctiger said:

This is interesting to me because I got out of a long term relationship back in January. We lived together and were engaged, due to be wed in May. I haven't gotten to the point where I am ready to jump back into the dating world. I know it's been 10 months now, but I just do not have the bandwidth to actively pursue dating. Now if something came up, then fine, but I'm not doing online dating right now. Some key points:

1. I'm an attractive male, 40 years old, with a very good career
2. No issues talking to women
3. Highly independent 
4. I've rebuilt my life around traveling and doing things I'm passionate about
5. I refuse to settle and that almost happened with my last relationship. Now it's become even more of a priority. If I don't find the "right" one, so be it. 

So prior to my 4 year relationship, I did online dating. I feel like in our current world, you almost have to do this to give yourself some options. In general, when I go out to bars with my friends, I'm not there to pick up women, so I don't use that as an opportunity to prospect. My thoughts regarding online dating, which may help explain why I'm not in a hurry to do it:

1. It's a grind, and can get very expensive depending on your dates (where you two go)
2. 90% of the women I've met look vastly different than the glamorous photos they've posted
3. Yes, online dating is based on attraction, for the most part. If I see what I consider an attractive woman, but her beliefs or values don't 100% align with mine, I'm more inclined to at least get in touch. If I'm not attracted to the woman at all, I won't bother contacting regardless if they align perfectly with my beliefs, etc. But to be fair, all dating is based on physical attraction, at least at first. So while online dating exacerbates this, I don't think it's something new. I wouldn't walk up to someone in person whom I didn't find physically attractive. 
4. It can be very awkward, but that's dating in general. It's about as close to the modern century "blind date" gets
5. Going back to options, with online dating, people are talking to several other prospects at once. So it becomes a game of attrition at a certain point. 
6. There are a significant amount of dating gurus online offering advice, which some may or may not follow. But this has turned dating into a giant game of trying to read the other person and decipher their true intentions or motives. 

I'll stop commenting for now. Curious where other people fall, especially guys. Online dating takes a lot of effort and, as stated, I just don't care enough to try right now, but I'll eventually have to get myself back on. Oddly enough, I've had a lot of dates from online dating, but never dated any person I met. The most dates I went on with a woman I met online was 2. There rest were 1 and done. 

Very very interesting!

 

So even as a sort after guy in a strong position, you don’t rule out online dating at all.
 

I wonder @kctigerhow often you approach women without knowing them in real life? How do you find that? Easy? Mixed? Have you found dating online giving you better results or matches that worked out in real life?

 

I think most of us can be probably agree men are much more visual. Men I find - we can open up a debate on this! - don’t put so much importance on a woman’s earnings or education, but women on the other hand will view the man “as the whole thing” and definitely care about his earnings, career,  competence and assets? 

 

I heard once that for everyone 6 IQ points a man has, he is much more likely to get a woman, but for every extra 6 IQ points she has, she is 30% less likely to find a match. I can’t remember the exact percentage for the male outcome - I will check it and re look it up! 
 

Thank you for adding your experience!

 

x

[mylolita]

16 hours ago, Seraphim said:

Well, I am not a millennial, I am Gen X and had a career and a family. My mom is a Boomer and had both. 
 

Personally, I think society is going back 50 years or more in the ways it has been divided. The things my mom’s generation and mine fought so hard to have have gone up in smoke. I could cry. 

Seraphim!

 

Okay okay juggling mama! Can I ask, did you find anything hard about doing both? Would you have rather done it differently, or are you happy with how many hours you worked whilst looking after your son? 
 

Was this whilst you were in the military?

 

Did you ever feel guilty working?

 

Thank you for adding!

 

x

[mylolita]

15 hours ago, boltnrun said:

Yeah, some American media personality just said he doesn't like the way single women are voting and that they should get married and have their husbands tell them how to vote. He wrapped that up by saying "guys, put a ring on it!" An, um, "interesting" perspective. I've been married and my husband never directed me on how to vote. He trusted that I was intelligent enough to decide on my own. Which I am, BTW, as are all humans.

I got married fairly young, barely old enough to buy a beer. I never had a career but instead have had jobs. I was never interested in a high powered career or in climbing the corporate ladder. I just wanted to make a decent living. However, when I did try to be a stay at home mom I only lasted five months before I went running back to work, albeit part time. I needed that adult human interaction. And I think it made me a better mother, plus my child loved preschool and made tons of friends and got a leg up in socialization and learning things like his letters, colors, songs, etc.

I never did online dating after my divorce. I generally met men at activities I was involved in. I'm a big sports fan, like going to car shows and events and was involved with a semi-pro sports team. So, lots of men there. I'm not currently dating, but if I start again I'll likely just attend events and join social groups. Maybe take some classes. 

This is interesting Bolt!

 

How did you find it being a young wife? At what age did you have your children? And what kind of man was your husband - what drew you too him if I can ask?

 

I hear this a lot from many different women - that full time parenting, so to speak, is not enough for them, and that they need something more! 
 

Thanks for contributing! 
 

x

[mylolita]

12 hours ago, Distressedmamma said:

I love this topic because I feel that I've lived both worlds of being a dependant wife and an independant woman. 

The short story is - was raised in an extreme religion and introduced to the man I'd marry at 19. I did this. Had no career and depended on him financially. Had a baby at 22 and another at 26. When I was caring for my first born I had the realisation that being financially dependant on my husband meant if anything ever went wrong for my daughter and I, we would be stuck. We were also very poor on one wage and at one point had to move back in with my parents after making a poor financial decision that pretty well ruined us. 

So with a 1 year old I studied nursing externally and full time. It was rough. My husband wasn't happy. He kept encouraging me to quit especially when I was struggling to cope with the pressure of studying. I almost gave in several times, but kept pushing through. 

Fast forward to the age of 33. I'd been working part time as a nurse for years and had still allowed  my husband to make the decisions. He moved us interstate away from my family. I felt so isolated without any help, and I realised then how much I had relied on my mother for support with the kids. He did nothing to help me. I'd come home from work after doing a 40 min round trip to pick up the kids after work, to find he'd been sitting on the couch drinking since mid-day. Still leaving me to deal with the kids and leaving me to get dinner with a toddler screaming at my legs. My son was so very very clingy and temperamental, I really really struggled. 

At 31 I made a plan. I saved money and put it aside in another account. I bought random house items and put them away in a cupboard. And then when I was 33 and had saved 7k, I left him. Moved into a unit. I took only the queen sized bed from the spare room and the things I had stored away. I never took anything more from him because I wanted nothing from him. My husband and my 10yr old daughter were so devistated. Even 5 years later I know my husband still loves me. But I cannot and will not be with him again. I'm not a submissive wife. 

In the meantime... I made goals. I took my nursing career into aboriginal health where I moved into other areas. I ended up designing an emergency room for my employer and assisted with managing the operations and staffing of this when it was complete. From here they asked me to open a new clinic, which I designed and then managed. While working there I landed a job as a trek nurse. I started cross-fit to get super strong, then with my new job I trekked kokoda 3 times and Everest base camp once. 

Things were going so well - I bought a new car, built a house and studied a full time post grad degree in emergency nursing, all whilst being a single mum, as my ex husband had moved states and gone back to his mother. So with no family support I did it all and I felt like super woman. There was nothing I couldn't achieve. 

But.. all of this was so exhausting. My kids were living in a whirlwind of routine. Get up, breakfast, school, work, sports, home, dinner, crossfit home, bed. I didn't stop from 6am til 9pm every single day. My mum would fly up to help me when I had am overseas trek. I took out life insurance to ensure my kids would be set if I died. 

Yes I was crazy. I was proving a point to myself that I could do it all. But for what? 

I'm still this crazy but I have slowed it right down. I've achieved everything I could want to and still found myself stuck in an unbalanced relationship. This time it's me that's been the breadwinner, running my own business. And I'm having to make plans on how to not lose financially this time.  

There is a balance in there somewhere. But being financially independant as a woman is very empowering. I would never have it another way. It equates to freedom for me.  

Am still working out what the balance actually is. And I'd prefer not to be working it out by making mistakes, but we are an imperfect race with unique individuals. So no one can tell us what is right for each of us. 

I dont know if my story answers your questions, I may have to try again! Lol

Wow! Thank you distressed! Now maybe I see the thinking behind your username!!!

 

You are in fact, SUPERWOMAN! Okay! 🥲

 

This is so interesting to me and my personal situation because I am also the full time stay at home little wifey! I haven’t worked for just over 6 years now. I stopped a year before I had children. I am in a traditional value I would say relationship with my older husband, he is nearly 10 years older than me. We have been together 15 years, married for 9. We have 3 kids under 4.

 

He has a very good job. He has his own business. We can afford for me to not work and not scrimp or scrape,  and I understand that from me being 25 to 32 now that is an exceptionally privileged position. 
 

Many working mums I have met have often said this to me in a softer way - what if he leaves you or dies?

 

Well, we have large life insurance both ways now; which was taken out very recently. Also, we have solid assets which would be split up (art collections, we nearly own our home outright). I think like some “Stepford Wife” types I would actually come out terribly financially better if I divorced. But! We adore each other. I don’t see that as an option, I really don’t. I am not religious at all but we both took those vows hardcore serious! 
 

My husband, along with being traditional, supports me furthering my education and things, once the kids get up. We have a bit of a deal. I stay off and take up most of the childcare (motherhood has been a huge. Dream and goal of mine so this is no burden) and he provides everything else, mostly financial. 
 

We have had rocky financial pasts, even recently. What if we lost it all? What could I do? Not too much actually. I don’t have a degree. I was a stripper and lap dancer in my youth. My money was made off my physicality. I’m 32 now, not 18 anymore! I made great money back then but it was fleeting.

 

Your dilemma of when it all breaks down is an important one distressed! Personally, massive respect because I don’t know how you did it! 
 

x

[mylolita]

Just to add - it seems like everything is a bit of a trade off.
 

You out all your trust and hope in one person providing and you are banking on them. You have maybe, not many other things to fall back on. So many women in the recent past did this, my Grandmas included. It worked out for them, with long lasting romantic marriages, but how it works in the modern world is also another debate! 
 

Expectations have changed! Women aren’t so comfortable putting all their trust - especially financially it seems - in their husbands hands.

 

Interesting!

 

x

[mylolita]

9 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

Eh, so so...

I had a pretty good year finance- wise. I do freelance work so this year I had a few very lucrative jobs. On top of that I made some strides into pursuing a job in my degree(education). So I managed to nab some part time administrative jobs in government due to my political connections. Which in turn made me more connections and got me on short list for my own job within school. I was even suppose to get one this week but principal hired somebody on her own(higher ups were mad because of it, she didnt asked them which is a norm). I have no luck regarding my own job, that is second or third time job slips up to me at the last second. You need insanely good connections here for jobs like that. 

But it has been a pretty good year. I live in a center of small town. So never saw a need for a car when everything is close. But financial situation is pretty good so planning on buying one soon. At least I could drive around and pursue more wide range jobs if needed. 

Anyway, my college years have been a blast. When I came back in home town, it took a tall on me. Had some deaths within family, and I left some very hard exams for last so I took time to actually finish my college. As a result I wasnt in a really good head- space regarding dating. I did go out and date but nothing really sticked for a long time. Only after finishing college I decided to be more serious about it. That means no more ONS, affairs, and stuff like that. So last couple of years I did get serious.

And with so-so effects. I was pretty passive but I did get active a lot last 2 years or so. Girls I dated were usually cute, college educated, independent. But none sticked around from various reason. My job is maybe not "flashy" enough as to most people I just type something in computer from home and get money. Part of the reason I decided to pursue more part time "real jobs" is meeting people and getting connections. But still I earn more then enough with my old one. Some people work here 8+ hours shifts, 6 days a week and still dont get to money I get for my work from home part time. But its still not regarded as an actual job here according to people(whole freelance field is fairly new here). So, maybe aquiring job within my field helps even with dating lol. Lots of times I did not get taken seriously. Even when I did form a relationship. Maybe that is on me. Though I console myself that very large portion of those girls are also still single so maybe the problem wasnt me but just my choices. Still I got very dissapointed by some. But I was always a "stubborn fighter". Meaning that my "failings" just made me work on myself more and push forward. So I just do that no matter what happens.

Anyway, sorry for a rant about my hardships.

Also I still regard online dating as a cesspool of people looking for a validation and not a real connection. Too many choices like in a candy shop so as a result your hapiness is diluted and you are never happy with your choices as there is always somebody better just a swipe away. Its like seeking a needle in a haystack there if you are looking anything serious. Even worst for an average guy. At least average girl can get an infinite ammount of likes. Average guy would be happy to get some. Out of that some, you would maybe get some coonversations and if you are lucky, dates. Its very hard out there so I understand the hardship of the guy from the last thread regarding it. 

This is so interesting as well, from the working guys perspective.

 

I take it you are single Kwothe28?

 

I am interesting in what you are looking for in a woman? Are you looking to settle down and for marriage? And can I ask how old you are? Sorry if you already mentioned, I apologise! 
 

I am hearing a similar story from a lot of men age 28-early 40s even. Established career, have somewhere to live or own their own home - yet, they can’t find anyone they want to settle with!

 

Thank you for sharing! 
 

x
 

 

[mylolita]

51 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

No. I think the philosophy of you're born into the world and need to figure it out and be the architect of your life is better than thinking the world needs to be shaped around our minds. People who are ridgid seem unable to adapt and therefore try to change everyone and everything around them.  Sadly the sine qua non of many personality disorders is rigidity and inability to be adaptive for the best outcome. It sort of reminds me of those lab mice who just keep going down the same blind alleys over and over .

Very true - people seem to make it, have it mostly sorted and roll with the punches, a large group also seems to be struggling and disenfranchised more than ever!

 

x

[mylolita]

1 hour ago, Distressedmamma said:

Ok, I'm trying again! It's really easy on this topic to blab about your own life!! Lol 

 

Modern life - millennial generation - online dating - women and careers - career or motherhood? Can you have both? Or can you just not have both, at the same time?

I'm a gen Y and the differences in men in my generation are on thr edge of the change that came about. Some are progressive and understand that women want equality in relationships now. It's hard if you want that as a woman and can't get that. It's more acceptable to be a divorced, single woman now so that's also something to consider. You can def have a career and motherhood.. but it does cost you that time you could be spending with your kids. My mother had a career and I remember feeling like she had no time for us. She also propped up the family from financial ruin which now as an adult I can see was so important. And also so rare for her generation. I guess I took a leaf from her book. 

 

Is the modern man getting left out in the cold? Is online dating really good for us? Too much choice? All based on appearances?  

I dont think the modern man is left out because I think the modern man has also become as picky as women have about their life partner.  People are looking for perfection in all areas whilst not being perfect themselves, so if it's harder these days.. perhaps people are not looking inward enough.  Online dating makes things pretty easy, but also shallow/superficial. It's pretty lazy. I hated it and I met a few frogs. I still prefer going to the pub and meeting real people. 

 

Are we settling later in life - doing everything later. Is this making us happy, or discontent? 

Yes I notice this. People I went to school with are having babies now in their 30s.  And I'm here with my 15 and 10 yr old. Whatever floats your boat... I probably had a crisis because I was too young and I felt I missed out on my young years. But I'm also grateful now that my kids are older and I'm getting some freedoms back. I'll be 45 when my youngest is 18, which I think is fabulous! I think people will be unhappy no matter what.. the grass is always greener isn't it. 

Distressed!

 

About the picky aspect! Right!!! This is also worth talking about. 
 

Are people just not getting their matches because they big up themselves? Think they can do better? Don’t want to “settle”? Have my generation especially been told you can have it all by 30/35? That means, house, car, marriage, great career, kids!

 

I think I have it great. I got what I wanted in life, no doubt. I’m in love like a teenager still after 15 years, I always wanted to be a mother and we are financially in a bit of an exceptional place. The only thing I don’t have is a career. If I wanted one, what would that look like for me? I’m not sure. I spend all day with the kids and it’s still not enough for me - I blinked and my son is nearly 5! It’s gone way too fast.

 

When I am 40 my son will be 13, my daughter will be 12 and my youngest daughter will be 10. I would like to think, if everything goes well, I would still have the option, if I want, to go pursue something - but I might not! I am one of those strange people who find pleasure and satisfaction in home making! I might just be bland distressed 🤣 the house is big enough to keep me very busy. I’m one of those annoying overly involved parents who joke school her kids as well! This might change soon for my son, we are seeing how it goes.

 

All I can say is I look out now on the sea of dating and personally, I wouldn’t fancy it!

 

But I know I would be going for those older guys, because I’m a traditional kinda gal, and the younger men don’t seem to gel with me!

 

Established, career secure men normally, I hate to say this, will date younger and beautiful women. They can get them. Leaving me, for example, if I became single with 3 kids at 32, not being able to complete with a young gorgeous 18 year old! Not normally, anyway! 
 

I met my husband when I was 18 so, that age carries a bit of reverence too me! 🤣

 

Women seem to be looking at the whole package, and men somehow want gorgeous young women. I think this is evolution at play here. Women value the resources, men value fertility. In general. Both value health!

 

Anyone add what they will too that - I am gabbing away here with my own little thoughts, I am not saying I am dead right on any of this ladies and gents! 
 

x

[mylolita]

Just gonna throw this in as well because I am interested to hear the men and women’s perspective on this!

 

Me and my husband have had this conversation a good few times in our marriage. Firstly, he says if times got tough (they have before but, not too tough!) that he would rather work day and night and 4 manual labour jobs to keep me at home so I don’t have to work. We have also talked about, what if I ever earned a decent amount of money or even more than him?! How would he feel? He said, I’m gonna be honest with you Lo - I wouldn’t like it. I’m the provider. I take care of you. He told me he wouldn’t take a penny of it and would just carry on paying the bills and tell me to keep the money I made for myself.

 

How does this make people feel?! I realise some women think this is even oppressive! Some women love this! Men! Would you say this or have this attitude to your girlfriend, wife?! Is this something you think is outdated now? Would you want her to pay her way, fair and square? 
 

x

[mylolita]

PS -  I know on some level I contribute more than enough to our marriage. Waking up at 5am, 6am - for a full day with the kids. I did every night feed whilst they were babies, I encouraged my husband to get his sleep. I have asked him a few times for help during the night but it was very very rare. 
 

I have done all the cooking and cleaning without exception for 15 years. I have had the odd job in my younger years, part time, but he would never take the money from it.

 

Weekends we spend together, and I normally get a full days break Saturday or Sunday, my husband has them then. He works very long hours - about 80 hours a week sometimes. Some days I have felt like a single parent. There are pros and cons to every coin! 
 

x

[Kwothe28]

1 hour ago, mylolita said:

I am interesting in what you are looking for in a woman? Are you looking to settle down and for marriage? And can I ask how old you are? Sorry if you already mentioned, I apologise! 

I am 38. Looking to settle down and marry. My list is not generaly long. I find most girls at least cute so looks is not a big issue. Big on education so I do go for college educated. I (and probably most guys from what I saw) dont care about earnings. Earnings are just something not that important when a guy searches for a girl, its mostly the other way around. Decent job is suffice. And in time I had to write off single moms. Lots of complications and added baggage. Which does shorten my dating pool in 30s. Divorce rate is high here, so lots of women on dating market are single with kids.

52 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Men! Would you say this or have this attitude to your girlfriend, wife?! Is this something you think is outdated now? Would you want her to pay her way, fair and square? 

I think its OK. Lots of people due to economic situation opt for both of partners to work. But its OK if one side can support both so the other can be dedicated to raising kids.

However, I would wonder if his resistance is due to traditional upbringing. Or just fear that you would leave after gaining economic indepenence and having an opportunity to meet other people through work. Is your husband a jealous type?

[Seraphim]

2 hours ago, mylolita said:

Seraphim!

 

Okay okay juggling mama! Can I ask, did you find anything hard about doing both? Would you have rather done it differently, or are you happy with how many hours you worked whilst looking after your son? 
 

Was this whilst you were in the military?

 

Did you ever feel guilty working?

 

Thank you for adding!

 

x

Hahahah I still work 10 hours a day now, but I am home at least while doing it . 
 

Being away when with the military made me cry. There was many a day while sitting in the cold and dark that I cried and missed my boy. But it was the same for the other jobs I did. I missed him every second and you know what that never goes away even when they are adults. 😉My mom still misses me every second and I am almost a senior citizen. Hahahaha. But we forge ahead despite that, we have to. But missing our children is a part of life. 
 

Would I have done it differently? You know, probably not. Each thing taught me a lot about who I am and what I would do and not do. What I am willing to sacrifice of myself as a person and wife and mother. So, no, my life stands as is. 

[Mammalyssa]

Intelligence is an interesting one too. 

I generally listen a lot and smile. Have never had trouble attracting the men.. but I have been the sort to hold back my opinions and if the man has hold of the attention and you make them feel good that seems enough to them. However... when they realise I'm intelligent..  they are often 'surprised' . 

I'm usually offended that it's surprising to find an intelligent woman. It doesn't go far from there. The general consensus I have gained from men is that they don't like to have a woman that is smarter than them. 

That is generalising of course, but yes.. my experience quite often. 

[kctiger]

4 hours ago, mylolita said:

Very very interesting!

 

So even as a sort after guy in a strong position, you don’t rule out online dating at all.
 

I wonder @kctigerhow often you approach women without knowing them in real life? How do you find that? Easy? Mixed? Have you found dating online giving you better results or matches that worked out in real life?

 

I think most of us can be probably agree men are much more visual. Men I find - we can open up a debate on this! - don’t put so much importance on a woman’s earnings or education, but women on the other hand will view the man “as the whole thing” and definitely care about his earnings, career,  competence and assets? 

 

I heard once that for everyone 6 IQ points a man has, he is much more likely to get a woman, but for every extra 6 IQ points she has, she is 30% less likely to find a match. I can’t remember the exact percentage for the male outcome - I will check it and re look it up! 
 

Thank you for adding your experience!

 

x

I would disagree in most of what you said as it seems to generalize a lot and almost leans to the point that men seem to only date women based on looks and do not appreciate stimulating conversation or are intimidated by a woman who challenges their intellect. 

1. Definitely do not agree that men are much more visual than women. It would be very rare, almost unheard of in my experience, that an unattractive man could walk up to an attractive woman and get her attention. While looks don't tell the entire story, they get you noticed. 
2. To my point on number 1, I wouldn't walk up to a woman I didn't know unless I found her attractive. That's the first thing I notice. But if she's a complete ditz, regardless of beauty, I'm not going to date her. I actually value education and career extremely high. I certainly do not want to get into a situation where I end up marrying a woman who doesn't have a stable career or her own goals and aspirations. Aside from looks getting my attention, intelligence is by and large the biggest turn on for me.
3. You mentioned women care more about the "whole thing", like earnings career, competence, assets. I don't want to be taking care of a woman nor do I want to feel like she's dating me purely for my assets. I have no issues with her being more successful than me. That in no way, shape or form defines my own feelings of manhood. I can sniff through that with ease. I am not a "simp" and would not get myself into that position. That has come from learned experience, unfortunately. I want a woman that compliments my life. I'm not interested in hypergamy. 

I do not like online dating at all, but you almost have to do it because it gives you options and you don't get the oneitis of focusing too much attention on one person. As I stated, I have never had a relationship blossom out of online dating. It's been a bunch of one time dates that went nowhere. I guess you have to keep trying, but it gets exhausting. I've dated several women at work, but that can be messy, complicated and at my position, it's not worth doing anymore as I don't want to risk losing my job. 

Online dating leads to woman talking to more than one guy at a time, and vice versa. So you have to do your best to stand out or you'll get lost in the shuffle, regardless of how good a catch you are in real life. That's the sucky part. I just don't care enough to try and prove myself. If you don't choose me, that's on you. Life goes on. But it's a grind. 

[Seraphim]

2 minutes ago, Distressedmamma said:

Intelligence is an interesting one too. 

I generally listen a lot and smile. Have never had trouble attracting the men.. but I have been the sort to hold back my opinions and if the man has hold of the attention and you make them feel good that seems enough to them. However... when they realise I'm intelligent..  they are often 'surprised' . 

I'm usually offended that it's surprising to find an intelligent woman. It doesn't go far from there. The general consensus I have gained from men is that they don't like to have a woman that is smarter than them. 

That is generalising of course, but yes.. my experience quite often. 

My husband and I are equally intelligent I feel but in different ways . 

[mylolita]

1 minute ago, Seraphim said:

My husband and I are equally intelligent I feel but in different ways . 

This is interesting as well - my husband has an IQ of 138, I think that pegs him as quite technically smart, where as my IQ is only 100.

 

He is an entrepreneur and a sales man through and through, and very confident. I’m very confident and extroverted and enjoy reading and writing and had a few exam answers published back in college as examples or whatever. I did very well in school and even had an invitation to tour Oxford - HA! As if they ever would have let me in! But on the flip side, my husband took himself straight out of school at 15 and already had two of his own businesses running by then, and felt like school “babied” him and held him back.  
 

I understand my husband is way more intelligent than me - I don’t mind that at all! I’m not a total dummy, I’ll talk about any topic under the sun and I have my opinions and inputs about it but I’m no maths genius here! 
 

We are both totally impractical! 
 

People often say, because he is blunt and direct, that he isn’t socially intelligent - but I think he is. I think to be a salesman you have to be socially intelligent and read people and almost manipulate people to some extent. Apart from having hardly any common sense he’s annoying and good at a lot of things! 
 

I think he lets me win the arguments in our household - HA! 
 

x

[mylolita]

15 minutes ago, kctiger said:

I would disagree in most of what you said as it seems to generalize a lot and almost leans to the point that men seem to only date women based on looks and do not appreciate stimulating conversation or are intimidated by a woman who challenges their intellect. 

1. Definitely do not agree that men are much more visual than women. It would be very rare, almost unheard of in my experience, that an unattractive man could walk up to an attractive woman and get her attention. While looks don't tell the entire story, they get you noticed. 
2. To my point on number 1, I wouldn't walk up to a woman I didn't know unless I found her attractive. That's the first thing I notice. But if she's a complete ditz, I'm not going to date her. I actually value education and career extremely high. I certainly do not want to get into a situation where I end up marrying a woman who doesn't have a stable career or her own goals and aspirations. Aside from looks getting my attention, intelligence is by and large the biggest turn on for me. 
3. You mentioned women care more about the "whole thing", like earnings career, competence, assets. I don't want to be taking care of a woman nor do I want to feel like she's dating me purely for my assets. I have no issues with her being more successful than me. That in no way, shape or form defines my own feelings of manhood. I can sniff through that with ease. I am not a "simp" and would not get myself into that position. That has come from learned experience, unfortunately. 

I do not like online dating at all, but you almost have to do it because it gives you options and you don't get the oneitis of focusing too much attention on one person. As I stated, I have never had a relationship blossom out of online dating. It's been a bunch of one time dates that went nowhere. I guess you have to keep trying, but it gets exhausting. I've dated several women at work, but that can be messy, complicated and at my position, it's not worth doing anymore as I don't want to risk losing my job. 

There have been evolutionary studies which show men are more visual and more spatially aware than women - they also have quicker reaction times, hence why it is a very impractical and rare thing to find a female racing driver. They are amazing at working out angles - also why most professional snooker and pool players are men and women can’t compete at their level.

 

Women on the other hand have been found to be able to multitask with ease, are much more social creatures, can network socially and tend to be more emotionally intelligent - able to read others emotions with more ease than men. 

 

I can gather some references to studies later if you would like. This is all based on the science of human evolution. 

 

I mean, I have seen plenty of unattractive men get women either with pure talent and charisma or a heavy wallet! I don’t mean to be bleak! 
 

I do actually think men who are willing and able to financially support women and their children are in slow decline. I’m not sure if you asked a general splice of women if they would like to be supported or not. I would love to see that study!

 

x