Overthinking, how to strain a friendship

[Coily]

19 hours ago, DancingFool said:

That makes perfect sense since you are both a very important friend to her husband and also one she hasn't actually met, been able to develop a relationship with and doesn't know at all really. To her, you are a complete stranger for all means and purposes.

So, consider a more bening perspective that she was heavily prego, stressed, lots of stuff goes on those last days and did not want the pressure of this visit/meeting in the state she was in. Even if she was being passive aggressive about it, it's forgivable and doesn't mean she is some monster.

I think your own guilt is playing heavily into this in terms of missing the wedding because you were sick. Why do you feel such guilt over something that could not be helped? Something to deal with internally. Also, probably best that you do accept the simple reality that this trip was poorly timed, including the whole last hurrah theme about it. 

Don't throw away your friendship. Do get a grip on your emotions. If you do plan to visit them, plan better and opt to stay in a hotel so you don't burden them even if they invite you to stay at their home. That will give all of you a safe zone of sorts to both connect, reconnect and also have some space. After all, you haven't seen your friend in person for years and you are a total stranger to his wife.

You have a great number of points here. I was also hoping this trip would have allowed for a cordial acquaintance-ship if not a friendship with her. So hopefully no one is thinking I want to vilify her in my mind, she has made my best friend happy and a father; best outcome!

As far as the guilt, it all stemmed from wanting to pay back my friend for all the help he has given me in the past; and what better way than be there one of of the most important days. We had been through a lot, and my failing to be there violates my personal code of conduct. Being in very poor health, made me feel like I had left him high and dry. But so far only I and ENA know of this guilt, and that's where it will stay.

[Wonderstruck]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:11 PM, Coily said:

I think the moment that became a flashpoint in her attitude towards me, was a planned trip for two nights (she was invited too) of me coming down to visit them before the birth of their child a month after. He was enthusiastic, and she tentatively agreed, with the caveat I could only sleep on the couch and not the guest room.

While I completely understand her apprehension at having you come down to visit when she was so close to giving birth, I don't understand why she insisted that you sleep on the couch, and not in the guest room.

That IS insulting, no matter how anybody tries to spin it.

Did you ever find out WHY she insisted that you sleep on the couch?

I suspect that she doesn't like you, because that is an incredibly rude caveat to have when they actually have a guest room that you could have stayed in.

[Cherylyn]

Don't feel guilty nor bad for declining your wedding participation.  You had Covid and pneumonia.  They should actually feel grateful that you bowed out because you were considerate enough not to spread your illnesses to others in attendance which would've been far worse! 

Some people never reveal their illnesses yet have no qualms spreading their illnesses to others which is very sneaky and deceitful.  You're not one of them.  You did the right thing.  It was an honorable, very moral decision.

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, Wonderstruck said:

While I completely understand her apprehension at having you come down to visit when she was so close to giving birth, I don't understand why she insisted that you sleep on the couch, and not in the guest room.

That IS insulting, no matter how anybody tries to spin it.

Did you ever find out WHY she insisted that you sleep on the couch?

I suspect that she doesn't like you, because that is an incredibly rude caveat to have when they actually have a guest room that you could have stayed in.

It's possible that she had that room prepared for a family member or whoever might help her after birth. Maybe she didn't want it disturbed in the event of a premature delivery, or not feeling up to preparing it again.

Maybe it's the new nursery, or storage for the baby things that she's in no position to move at this time.

It's really not in anyone's best interests to assume dislike, especially given that they have never met. It's just a stressful time, and we can't judge how 'well' people feel or handle that stress from the outside.

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, Coily said:

As far as the guilt, it all stemmed from wanting to pay back my friend for all the help he has given me in the past; and what better way than be there one of of the most important days. We had been through a lot, and my failing to be there violates my personal code of conduct. Being in very poor health, made me feel like I had left him high and dry. But so far only I and ENA know of this guilt, and that's where it will stay.

This might be something to consider confiding in friend at some point, and ask him for ideas on how you can make this up to him.

Illness during a pandemic isn't exactly something you can 'overcome' in terms of showing up at a wedding. With people. Who don't want to catch it.

Staying away wasn't selfish or even a choice, but I think anyone can appreciate how conflicted you would feel about this. The perfect person to know about how much this conflict disturbs you and your appreciation for all that this friend has ever done for you would be your friend.

[Coily]

Been a minute on this, and well more high strangeness abounds.

One thing my friend relayed to me on the only conversation we've had in quite a while; is that his wife is obsessive about the social media side of their child. She would not allow his parents who were there at the birth to hold the child until her parents could also be there (3 weeks later) for a photo op.

Apparently she asked him before the trip which never happened, how much I posted on social media and if I would be wearing "classy clothes" during the trip. All of this was relayed when he had the only time alone with his son since the birth, as she was flitting off to a day spa.

All I know is that I was a bit taken aback by all of this, but it does add up with some of my treatment. I'm ecstatic that my friend is really bonding with his son, and hopefully, this is just a phase for them all.

[Lambert]

14 minutes ago, Coily said:

She would not allow his parents who were there at the birth to hold the child until her parents could also be there (3 weeks later) for a photo op.

this is ridiculous and I wonder how his parents took it. 

But in any event, I think you're reading too much into all of this.  As a long distant friend, it's super easy for you to focus on your life. And give this friend some space with his new family.

While his wife might be weird and not the best communicator with a friend of her hubs, sounds like nothing has actually been done to you, that can't be explained away as just circumstances.

It sounds like you might be reaching to create a problem?  Did she lie about the appointment? Maybe.

Maybe she didn't have the nerve to be honest that your visit was just too close to the baby coming for her comfort. 

Being pregnant and having an over night guest, might not seem like a big deal to some, but are you pregnant? In some ways we're so conditioned that women have babies everyday, we don't give the individual their due. First pregnancy, hormones, changes to the body, concerns etc, all take a big toll on the woman it is happening to. So let's not lose sight of that and try to have compassion for this is also your best friends wife. 

Don't make it about you.  From now on, if you want to visit, plan to stay somewhere else. I personally hate staying with people and I'm not really keen on people staying with me.  It messes up my routine and I just don't like that constant togetherness. Especially if I didn't have a room for that person to have to themselves. 

I could imagine being pregnant and not too thrilled with a guy visiting my hubs in my space. no offense to the guy.  It's more about me, my comfort at a challenging time. 

[Kwothe28]

Dear Lord she sounds like a handfull. My condolances to your friend for having to deal with somebody like that.

I have my very good friend from high school away from me too. But we hear each other every day. And he has a very lovely wife and a good marriage. Sometimes when I visit them I even sleep at her office (she has a dentist office and appartment blended together but separated by door) instead of his (he also has an office and living space where I could sleep lol). I was there when both of their kids got born (there was a big celebration, we have those here) and am frequent visitor. So, cant imagine somebody just throwing tantrums like that and that you couldnt go. Can you visit now after the birth and see the baby? 

Also, how is he handling all that? Really cant imagine anyone living at peace with somebody demanding photo op for Instagram and denying his parents an opportunity to see the baby for that.

[Cherylyn]

If your friend's wife bothers you so much, know your friend is a package deal.  Either accept his wife's idiosyncrasies or perhaps withdraw from the friendship.  With all due respect, their lives truly do not include you.  Their sole and primary focus is on their newborn infant and they'll be preoccupied for years to come. If they have another child, the description of "insanely busy" is an understatement.  Unfortunately, you'll have to take a back seat or no seat at all.  It's the reality of the situation.  I vividly recall how frenetically paced my husband and I were as new parents.  New parents don't have time to think much less have time for friends as during their carefree, childless days which are no more.

Yes, there is time for friends on their  terms and timeline, not yours.  Be prepared for either brief moments with them or less than that. 

Be prepared because this "phase" could very well last for many years to come. 

I agree with @Lambert.  Your friend's wife's preferences are her right even if she strikes you as odd.  It's her prerogative and whatever she says goes.  Her husband defers to his wife which isn't shocking.

I remember major upheavals in my life with pregnancy, hormones, childbirth, new motherhood and my husband was also in life changing events with me every step of the way. 

I agree with @Lambert.  Make hotel reservations.  I didn't want to host visitors in my home whether I had a guest room or not.  The only exception would be my mother and I know she would've helped with laundry, grocery shopping, cooking, holding the baby so I could sneak in a shower, take care of me so I could take care of the baby and the like.  (Fortunately, my husband did everything such as all chores and errands because my mother resides locally.  However, my mother brought home cooked dinners to my house for months after each son was born.  She was a godsend and she was employed full time!)   

If you truly care for your friend and his new family, do something.  Money speaks the universal language.  You can't go wrong with money which is most practical.  You can send a VISA gift card money to your friend's mobile phone via text.  They can use the money to buy takeout meals for their sleep deprivation days.  If you wish to add yet another extra layer of thoughtfulness,  send a baby congratulatory floral bouquet.  You can love and care from afar.  Put your money where your mouth is. 

 

[mylolita]

Coily!

 

Uh oh, modern social media strikes again!

 

I always think how comfortable and often people take selfies is a good yard stick for character judgement! 
 

Ahem! I feel like people are quick to brush off your feelings regarding this, but I imagine you were around with your friend many years before he had children and many years before his wife. You might be there if their marriage ends, potentially years after that. And true, long term friendships are a form of pure love. They are not just nothing to be dismissed because people get busy. 
 

To be honest, she doesn’t sound the best - but! In the words of Judge Judy “you picked her!” meaning, your friend chose her at the end of the day. Has he made a good choice? Time will tell I guess. Unfortunately you have to hold your tongue if you want peace. Is this all worth it too you Coily? You might have to bide your time.

 

Just an observation - depending on the personality of the lady, pregnancy causes different kinds of behaviour. You can have quite chilled women with a bohemian nature who see nothing with entertaining still and having friends over or parties still, or you can have more scheduled type parents who stick to routines and aren’t very flexible at all with much outside of their new responsibilities - other people fall inbetween. 
 

When I was pregnant with my first, a real common thing was to have people tell me, warn me, my life was going to be near chaos with no time for anything almost ever again! Yes no time for a shower as Cheryl mentioned was a common thing said! I was pleasantly surprised that for me, that treadmill feeling never happened! Not even when my second came along 19 months later, and then my third 21 months after that. I have always had time to fit in what matters too me - to cook, clean, put make-up on, see friends now and then, still throw the odd social round ours, have a date night with my husband now and then - friends that were close, I still made time for. It took nothing for me to invite them in and make them a coffee while the babies napped! 
 

It really seems to depend how things unfold. I do know that a new baby is a perfect and unquestionable excuse to use when you don’t want to make time for someone, when I say this I mean, a valid excuse his wife can use.

 

x

[Coily]

1 hour ago, Lambert said:

this is ridiculous and I wonder how his parents took it. 

But in any event, I think you're reading too much into all of this.  As a long distant friend, it's super easy for you to focus on your life. And give this friend some space with his new family.

While his wife might be weird and not the best communicator with a friend of her hubs, sounds like nothing has actually been done to you, that can't be explained away as just circumstances.

It sounds like you might be reaching to create a problem?  Did she lie about the appointment? Maybe.

Maybe she didn't have the nerve to be honest that your visit was just too close to the baby coming for her comfort. 

Being pregnant and having an over night guest, might not seem like a big deal to some, but are you pregnant? In some ways we're so conditioned that women have babies everyday, we don't give the individual their due. First pregnancy, hormones, changes to the body, concerns etc, all take a big toll on the woman it is happening to. So let's not lose sight of that and try to have compassion for this is also your best friends wife. 

Don't make it about you.  From now on, if you want to visit, plan to stay somewhere else. I personally hate staying with people and I'm not really keen on people staying with me.  It messes up my routine and I just don't like that constant togetherness. Especially if I didn't have a room for that person to have to themselves. 

I could imagine being pregnant and not too thrilled with a guy visiting my hubs in my space. no offense to the guy.  It's more about me, my comfort at a challenging time. 

His parents (surrogate aunt and uncle to me) weren't thrilled, they have been my main source of information on how the son is doing; but I make sure to never mention my "amazement."

I can appreciate you perception, and I have asked myself if that's an unconscious factor.

Right now I am just more flummoxed by the whole situation, and needed to express my concerns without those affecting my communications going forward.

I don't forsee making plans to visit more than a lunch, as small children need a lot of extra attention and consideration.

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

Dear Lord she sounds like a handfull. My condolances to your friend for having to deal with somebody like that.

I have my very good friend from high school away from me too. But we hear each other every day. And he has a very lovely wife and a good marriage. Sometimes when I visit them I even sleep at her office (she has a dentist office and appartment blended together but separated by door) instead of his (he also has an office and living space where I could sleep lol). I was there when both of their kids got born (there was a big celebration, we have those here) and am frequent visitor. So, cant imagine somebody just throwing tantrums like that and that you couldnt go. Can you visit now after the birth and see the baby? 

Also, how is he handling all that? Really cant imagine anyone living at peace with somebody demanding photo op for Instagram and denying his parents an opportunity to see the baby for that.

That's fantastic getting to be there and support your friend's growing family.

No, I am not invited to visit the baby, which is a bit frustrating. His parent's offered me a place if I didn't want to get a hotel, which while great, I don't want to impose a lunch meeting on my friend at this point. Especially as he's struggling to make so much function between work and home. He's a great dad, I just wish I could do more to help.

32 minutes ago, Cherylyn said:

If you truly care for your friend and his new family, do something.  Money speaks the universal language.  You can't go wrong with money which is most practical.  You can send a VISA gift card money to your friend's mobile phone via text.  They can use the money to buy takeout meals for their sleep deprivation days.  If you wish to add yet another extra layer of thoughtfulness,  send a baby congratulatory floral bouquet.  You can love and care from afar.  Put your money where your mouth is. 

 

I really don't care what you have to say on this topic, as you come across as insulting and belittling. But I will address this section, and this section alone. I have offered on multiple occasions to both my friend and his wife to buy formula, diapers, or any other things they may struggle to get a hold of. He tells me he will ask, and both will say (him regretfully) nothing. His parents on the other hand mention how the formula shortage is a problem, so I have sent things to his parents rather than directly.

I am not bribing my way into good graces. But, I do put my D money where my heart is.

[Coily]

Lo,

Thanks for the observations, especially for not thinking I am wading in and expecting to be the center of an event. I really hope that they have a lasting marriage, and a few more kids. As he and i have been best friends for 30 years, even at a distance I don't plan on slipping into the wilds of forgotten memories. It's more a matter of, can I help them if times get rocky or be a sounding board for my friend when he needs.

[moodindigo91]

On 9/21/2022 at 11:44 PM, Rose Mosse said:

If you’re not sure about it, do nothing.

I think I agree with this. Mostly because there is a child involved now, and they are going to do what they are going to do based on that. 

My best friend lives on the other side of the country from me and it has been like this for almost a decade. I hardly have had the time (or money) to visit her. She has 2 kids and a husband. She had the first when we were very young and I was around for that. I was able to visit her right before she had the 2nd. After the 2nd, her marriage to her husband began falling apart, as he tends to be controlling and selfish. There was even a time where I was encouraging her to divorce him because I thought he was abusing her. 

Long story short. They are still married. I have a lot of problems with this still. I'm like you, I have plenty of other friends with children who are able to take trips to see friends (she has never once come to visit me), or at least are able to maintain a social life outside of their families. My best friend seems virtually incapable of doing this. However, after she decided to reconcile with her husband and try to make the marriage work, I realized I needed to back off. I still don't really like her husband. In fact, I used to be friends with him and knew him quite well, as they have been together since we were in high school. Now, I don't talk to him at all. We are not friends on social media. I could care less about how he feels about anything. But I also recognize that she made a choice to be with him and work on their marriage, and I support her in that. 

As much as I want her to come visit me, as much as I want to be able to go visit her whenever I want, as much as I want her to have her own life outside of her children and recognize she is her own person and not simply a wife and mother, etc. I have to accept and respect her decision. I think it ultimately causes her deep unhappiness. The best I can do is try to support her in all the ways I can and guide her to find that inner happiness without causing more friction in her life. 

I don't think you need to step back from this connection. You just need to learn to navigate it. That will come with time, and sometimes it might be uncomfortable. But a friendship that has been that long should be cherished. I still talk to my best friend every day. Hope this helps and I hope things get better! 

[Coily]

6 minutes ago, moodindigo91 said:

I think I agree with this. Mostly because there is a child involved now, and they are going to do what they are going to do based on that. 

My best friend lives on the other side of the country from me and it has been like this for almost a decade. I hardly have had the time (or money) to visit her. She has 2 kids and a husband. She had the first when we were very young and I was around for that. I was able to visit her right before she had the 2nd. After the 2nd, her marriage to her husband began falling apart, as he tends to be controlling and selfish. There was even a time where I was encouraging her to divorce him because I thought he was abusing her. 

Long story short. They are still married. I have a lot of problems with this still. I'm like you, I have plenty of other friends with children who are able to take trips to see friends (she has never once come to visit me), or at least are able to maintain a social life outside of their families. My best friend seems virtually incapable of doing this. However, after she decided to reconcile with her husband and try to make the marriage work, I realized I needed to back off. I still don't really like her husband. In fact, I used to be friends with him and knew him quite well, as they have been together since we were in high school. Now, I don't talk to him at all. We are not friends on social media. I could care less about how he feels about anything. But I also recognize that she made a choice to be with him and work on their marriage, and I support her in that. 

As much as I want her to come visit me, as much as I want to be able to go visit her whenever I want, as much as I want her to have her own life outside of her children and recognize she is her own person and not simply a wife and mother, etc. I have to accept and respect her decision. I think it ultimately causes her deep unhappiness. The best I can do is try to support her in all the ways I can and guide her to find that inner happiness without causing more friction in her life. 

I don't think you need to step back from this connection. You just need to learn to navigate it. That will come with time, and sometimes it might be uncomfortable. But a friendship that has been that long should be cherished. I still talk to my best friend every day. Hope this helps and I hope things get better! 

Thank you! I am really trying my best to navigate how to be supportive as they are adjusting. This helps a lot, knowing that someone else has had experiences trying to navigate the new paradigms.

[mylolita]

27 minutes ago, Coily said:

Lo,

Thanks for the observations, especially for not thinking I am wading in and expecting to be the center of an event. I really hope that they have a lasting marriage, and a few more kids. As he and i have been best friends for 30 years, even at a distance I don't plan on slipping into the wilds of forgotten memories. It's more a matter of, can I help them if times get rocky or be a sounding board for my friend when he needs.

30 years should not be dismissed!

 

I wish you the best with the change in friendship Coily - things still might settle down, y’never know 😌

 

x

[mylolita]

@Cherylyn

 

Cooked dinners and money and flowers and doing laundry works fantastic as help for some women, but I just wanted to add, not all new mothers welcome the same kind of general help and gifting that is stereotypical.

 

Personally, seeing people and having nice chats about things besides my babies is a lovely welcome break for me, especially during a babies first year. The times I had near and dear old friends spontaneously stay over energised me and broke up the daily repetitive routines young babies and toddlers sometimes bring. Talking to and seeing people gives me energy - where as some people need alone time to re-coupe. I find it’s so different for each mother what helps them. I would rather sit down over a coffee curled up on my own couch while my friends or family cooed and played with my babies over having them hardwire me some cash straight into the ol’account! 
 

When you’re married, you’re a team. The other partner can’t dismiss the others friends or hobbies just because a baby comes. My husband works away, we have 3 children under the age of 4. He loves to play pool. He plays 2 nights a week, every week, I put all the kids to bed myself on those nights. He sees his friends then. That’s his time to let loose. He’s an amazing father and provider - but I understand he’s not a machine, neither am I, and parents need to relax and have friends and let their hair down sometimes too. I think it’s unfair when wives or husbands put their foot down and veto things that came before children just because they can, or have the excuse of young children. Friends are very important. It’s important for children to have friends and the parents to have them too. Raising babies can be isolating. People often need outside support that can’t always be put on the shoulders of their partner and their partner alone.

 

x
 

 

[mylolita]

1 hour ago, Coily said:

Lo,

Thanks for the observations, especially for not thinking I am wading in and expecting to be the center of an event. I really hope that they have a lasting marriage, and a few more kids. As he and i have been best friends for 30 years, even at a distance I don't plan on slipping into the wilds of forgotten memories. It's more a matter of, can I help them if times get rocky or be a sounding board for my friend when he needs.

I get a feeling he might need more than a sounding board with this one… 

 

… maybe a black hole once the 7th salon/spa/yoga retreat hits 🥲🤣 

 

Baby is gonna think people naturally spend their youth having staged OK magazine photo shoots - oh wait, this is 3/4 of everyone born after 2018! 
 

x

[mylolita]

PS,

 

Coily, I’m about to give you the most insightful advice I’ve ever given anyone on here, ever. 
 

For the photo ops - DO NOT wear a brown belt with black shoes. DO NOT wear a black belt with BROWN shoes EITHER. I guarantee this will implode the new mother. At your caution. It was first said here. You’re welcome!

 

x

[Batya33]

All new mothers are different. Two differences with me -I had a postpartum stroke (from which I fully recovered but it was on day 12, it was really scary and then I had to be on blood thinners and monitored closely tha first 6 months) and our son was born during the H1N1 epidemic and so he couldn't be vaccinated -too young. 

I got push back from some because of my rule that only immediate family (our parents and my sister -my husband has no siblings) could hold him until he was about 6 months old.  So it's not just that newborns need more "attention" at lunch -there also are safety considerations.  Also, extroverted me all of a sudden found socializing draining.  Really odd but there you have it. It affected my motivation to see people.

What I found thoughtful and helpful during those first few months:  friends who offered to stay overnight and help with feedings since my husband resumed business travel two weeks in (I declined and was so warmed by the offer -so genuine and sweet), people who came over for very short visits and weren't pushy about holding the baby, also being invited out for adult time even if I couldn't go.

When he was around 2-3 weeks old I went to a small dinner party at a restaurant for a couple of hours (husband was with the baby) and one woman there -single, no kids asked me how I could bear being away from my son.  (That should go in the category of not thoughtful).  

Also thoughtful - our cousin who came over when my husband was away with a pizza, fed the baby, and left the whole pizza for me - meaning she didn't ask to be served etc (of course I offered).  

The friends who shipped me boxes of hand me downs (since I had kids later than a number of my friends).  

Not thoughtful -the friend who came over when my husband was traveling, wanted me to order specific and expensive take out food, and she sat on my couch and let me serve her -I don't remember her lifting a finger - while I was stressing because I had started to get the baby on a sleeping schedule and the clock was ticking.  She was in the middle of an IVF procedure so maybe her hormones were out of whack.  I could not enjoy that visit -between the "entertaining" and the baby fussing. 

She made more work for me. Don't make more work for a new mom who's solo parenting! Ironically she's actually a really good person and friend and has done many other things that were so very thoughtful - I point this out because sometimes if the thoughtless or well-intentioned but tactless thing happens at one of those vulnerable times it can have much more of an impact.  

 

[Cherylyn]

On 10/21/2022 at 11:50 AM, Coily said:

No, I am not invited to visit the baby, which is a bit frustrating. His parent's offered me a place if I didn't want to get a hotel, which while great, I don't want to impose a lunch meeting on my friend at this point. Especially as he's struggling to make so much function between work and home. He's a great dad, I just wish I could do more to help.

I really don't care what you have to say on this topic, as you come across as insulting and belittling. But I will address this section, and this section alone. I have offered on multiple occasions to both my friend and his wife to buy formula, diapers, or any other things they may struggle to get a hold of. He tells me he will ask, and both will say (him regretfully) nothing. His parents on the other hand mention how the formula shortage is a problem, so I have sent things to his parents rather than directly.

I am not bribing my way into good graces. But, I do put my D money where my heart is.

Don't be shocked nor surprised that you're not invited to visit the baby.  I remember when my husband and I were new parents.  We were extremely busy with infant care, very sleep deprived and exhausted.  We were still preoccupied with new parenthood for a long time.  If he had visitors, it was infrequent and their stay was very brief as in several minutes.  Granted, my local in-laws visited but they're different.  They're grandparents.  My local mother visited with home cooked dinners in tow which were a godsend.  My local sister brought homemade meals as well.  We never had overnight guests whether we had a spare room or sofa.  No way.

If you want to help, there isn't much you can do in person.  The new parents have their routine.  However, you can always send money from afar through your cell phone as money is very practical.  They can buy whatever they need at random.  Or, you don't even have to do that.  Just sending your prayers and positive vibes is good enough.  Or, you can send a sweet baby congrats floral bouquet delivery to their house.  That would be a nice gesture. 

New parents have a mind boggling new mindset. 😳 Unfortunately, friends are no longer on their radar.  Sure, new parents have friends but the majority of their time is predominantly baby focused and children focused for many years to come.  Carefree childless days are no more. 

Lower your expectations to nil and nothing will ever offend, shock nor surprise you anymore.  Until you become a mother or father, newborn, baby, toddler and child rearing priorities are such a foreign concept which is very difficult to grasp until you walk a mile in their shoes. 

Your intentions are good and your heart's in the right place, Coily.  It's just that it's difficult to relate when you're at different stages in life.  It's no one's fault.  It's just the way it is with people. 

[Cherylyn]

On 10/21/2022 at 12:49 PM, mylolita said:

@Cherylyn

 

Cooked dinners and money and flowers and doing laundry works fantastic as help for some women, but I just wanted to add, not all new mothers welcome the same kind of general help and gifting that is stereotypical.

 

Personally, seeing people and having nice chats about things besides my babies is a lovely welcome break for me, especially during a babies first year. The times I had near and dear old friends spontaneously stay over energised me and broke up the daily repetitive routines young babies and toddlers sometimes bring. Talking to and seeing people gives me energy - where as some people need alone time to re-coupe. I find it’s so different for each mother what helps them. I would rather sit down over a coffee curled up on my own couch while my friends or family cooed and played with my babies over having them hardwire me some cash straight into the ol’account! 
 

When you’re married, you’re a team. The other partner can’t dismiss the others friends or hobbies just because a baby comes. My husband works away, we have 3 children under the age of 4. He loves to play pool. He plays 2 nights a week, every week, I put all the kids to bed myself on those nights. He sees his friends then. That’s his time to let loose. He’s an amazing father and provider - but I understand he’s not a machine, neither am I, and parents need to relax and have friends and let their hair down sometimes too. I think it’s unfair when wives or husbands put their foot down and veto things that came before children just because they can, or have the excuse of young children. Friends are very important. It’s important for children to have friends and the parents to have them too. Raising babies can be isolating. People often need outside support that can’t always be put on the shoulders of their partner and their partner alone.

 

x
 

 

@mylolitaI agree, all mothers are different.  Flowers die so I was never into flowers.  If I want flowers, all I have to do is walk to my front or back yards.  I have roses and plenty of flowers there.  As for laundry, cooking, house cleaning, grocery shopping or other errands I have that covered because my husband does anything.  Gifts are nice.  I received a ton of gifts and wrote a ton of postal thank you notes.  However, I didn't need all gifts.  I appreciated big ticket items such as the stroller my mother bought, other expensive big ticket gifts from my in-laws and closest friends.  I didn't need extraneous items but received them graciously anyway. 

Money was very wonderful and extremely practical.

Home cooked meals from neighbors,  local family members, other relatives and in-laws were an absolute godsend so I do the same for new mothers within my locale.  Or, if there's death, I'll deliver meals. 

I agree, new motherhood was isolating.  However, I wouldn't have been keen with overnight guests but that's just me.  I don't want to host nor do I want the intrusion.  I value my privacy. 

I belonged to a weekly, local new mother's group at my local hospital.  We met at 10AM.  We met in a large room near the lobby area.  A nurse hosted the group.  We sat in chairs in a very large circle.  Some crawling babies or sitting upright babies were on a play mat, there were toys and such.  It was social time for mothers and if we had any questions, the nurse answered them all.  I loved it.  I recall a Thanksgiving and Christmas potluck.  I really miss those days.  I met wonderful friends there and a few years later, we met at local parks for play dates and picnics.  We became lifelong friends to this day.  We have a lot in common.  Our children are all in the same age bracket. 

My neighbor had a weekly, morning play group when my son was a baby.  I miss those days.  Even though we've since moved, I've retained those former neighbor friends.  This same neighbor brought  homemade roast beef dinner with side dishes and dessert a few days after bringing my newborn son home from the hospital.  I had never forgotten.  💓

x

 

[Batya33]

No way would I have had any overnight guests and not just because we lived in an apartment.  Newborns are fragile and vulnerable and sleep is precious -new parents don't need to host anyone else overnight except perhaps a night nurse (which I didn't want either).

The gifts/services I really appreciated: hand me downs my friends shipped to me (tip -don't ship in a diaper box that says size (big baby size) as New Mom (me) won't open it for months thinking it is diapers ;-)) .  Phone calls -but actually when I called as you can forget to shut ringer off and baby is sleeping.  Short visits where it was about me and baby -meaning walking with me and baby in the baby carriage so we could get the baby outside for fresh air and/or to nap.  

Oh and the friend who came to see me when we were staying at a family friend's empty apartment to visit family in our hometown -this is 12 years ago and I'll never forget this.  I was nervous because this building had stairs leading to the sidewalk and I wanted to put him in his car seat/stroller but couldn't get the stroller down and hold him etc.  I was just not up on that skill yet.

She -no kids -never had kids -came over.  And she carried that stroller down (so I could be the one to hold my son) and then she and I walked a few blocks to a restaurant and she entertained him and let me eat. 

There is nothing like that feeling of having someone have your back like that -whether you're a new mom or just in need of that sort of quiet, matter of fact, practical support.  (Unlike the friends who would arrive late at a restaurant so that my toddler's 45-50 minute shelf life at a restaurant was already 1/3rd over, or who would cancel last minute when I jumped through hoops to get baby and me ready to meet them, or who riled up the baby at the restaurant after I asked them not to so that I had to cut our time short). 

I was not focused on mom friends - I did enjoy some of the mom/parent groups I joined back then.  I was focused on people who got it -who got that just as I had accommodated them for many years when I didn't have babies but they did - they were happy to do the same for me.  I was happy to do the same for my friends and I did many times over.  I never would have dreamed of asking to stay over someone's home -if that was the situation we stayed at a hotel.

[Coily]

@Cherylyn

Said it once, will say it again. I'm not wasting my time on your responses as they have been significantly less than helpful on this topic. Even if they were winning lottery numbers or that my future wife is behind door #2. Good day.

[Coily]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

No way would I have had any overnight guests and not just because we lived in an apartment.  Newborns are fragile and vulnerable and sleep is precious -new parents don't need to host anyone else overnight except perhaps a night nurse (which I didn't want either).

I was not focused on mom friends - I did enjoy some of the mom/parent groups I joined back then.  I was focused on people who got it -who got that just as I had accommodated them for many years when I didn't have babies but they did - they were happy to do the same for me.  I was happy to do the same for my friends and I did many times over.  I never would have dreamed of asking to stay over someone's home -if that was the situation we stayed at a hotel.

In the context of this discussion all of this transpired  well before the child was born, a month or more; and the long now irrelevant staying with them was part of a long standing and regularly discussed invitation to stay with my friend.

But all this is moot now that the child is here and, contrary to what some poster says, I am not such a self centered goon as to impose myself into their routine now. But I guess since I'm a bachelor I must be a moron, since I "can't get it."

Sorry @Batya33, didn't mean to be so snappy. It's a very tiresome refrain to hear; and while possibly not intended to give offense, it gets increasingly under my skin.

[Cherylyn]

2 hours ago, Coily said:

@Cherylyn

Said it once, will say it again. I'm not wasting my time on your responses as they have been significantly less than helpful on this topic. Even if they were winning lottery numbers or that my future wife is behind door #2. Good day.

@CoilyI'm not sure what you're expecting from new parents and I doubt you know because you've never experienced sudden new fatherhood or motherhood as your life is literally turned upside down overnight.  You will never know until you walk a mile in their shoes and you'll be in for the wildest ride of your life.  It will rock your world to the core.  Friends are nice to have but you're no longer as important anymore as priorities have since shifted.

I hate to break it to you but the wife always rules the roost.  You don't have to like it but you'll have to accept it even if this stance doesn't agree with you.  Usually, the husband defers to his wife.  Happy wife equals happy life as most smart husbands have since learned.  

I know I'm not "popular" in my MIL (mother-in-law)'s, SIL (sister-in-law)'s and some friends' eyes.  There were times when they wanted something such as a request of any kind which was very inconvenient for us due to our work schedules.  I did not feel well during pregnancy, prior to giving birth, after bringing my newborn home from the hospital, our frenetically paced sleep deprived life and for a long time thereafter.  There were times when plans were canceled or changed due to how I felt physically and mentally.  We were overjoyed yet stressed simultaneously.  My husband listened to me and relayed this message to others.  Of course, they were not happy for feeling cast aside but oh well. 🤔 That's the way life goes.  You don't always get what you want or expect despite your good will.  I agree, it is disappointing and hurtful.  It's easy to feel offended but don't be.  People have their reasons and it's nothing personal.  Look at it that way, Coily whether it's helpful or not.  Good day.