Love vs. In love - some questions

[Tinydance]

Well I probably can't comment on this properly because I've been in a few serious relationships but they were usually only about two years long. From what people in long term relationships told me and things I read, you feel "in love" at first but then the feeling changes. I don't mean it changes to something bad but it just becomes different. 

Like, at the start you feel the butterflies, passion, excitement, think about that person 24/7 and you don't really see their flaws because you're so smitten. Then as months go on, that really exciting feeling fades off. And what you feel for your partner is still love but it's levelled out. You enjoy their company, their friendship, you feel comfortable and open with them. It's not like a roller-coaster where you're always like: "OMG I'm seeing them today!!" but it's just a comfortable, content feeling. 

I think also people have different ways they like to be in a relationship, what they're looking for in a relationship and how they feel. One example I can probably give is my ex-girlfriend. I was with her for about two years and I didn't feel like she really had that passion for me and she was kind of asexual. I broke up with her for various reasons.

Then she met another woman and they were friends for about a year first before getting into a romantic relationship. They seem very happy together, they live together and have been together for six years. They have a cat together and do a lot of low key things like gardening, walking, riding their bikes, cooking. They actually also have separate rooms but I'm not sure about the intimate and sexual aspects of their relationship. I did get the impression though that their relationship is more like a friendship but it is still loving and they're happy. They're not engaged or married but they love and care for each other and it's a companionship.

There are people however that want a very passionate, exciting relationship and to be "in love" like in romantic movies. Like, on Valentine's Day and Birthday to get roses, chocolates, massages, hotel room, etc. I think it may also depend on people's love languages and the way they actually want to be in love.

Anyway I'm probably not a big expert on this because I haven't actually been in very long relationships lol

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, SleepyOwl1969 said:

I am pushing him a little bit and when I push him I think it makes him pump the brakes even more because he wants to say things when he is ready. 

Unfortunately it seems like you are projecting your own bad marriage onto this. 

Almost like you want to sabotage this by pressing and pressing and pressing.

Ok. He's a confirmed bachelor. So if this repetitive "do you love me" discussion is for something else like marriage or living together, yes you're stepping on the gas and looking for reassurance.

You seem happy. But you also seem to want to keep rocking the boat unnecessarily until you finally capsize it.

It's a year. You're not wasting time playing house. So what is it you actually want out of this? Are you on a timeline that you need a ring by now and needling him will give him the message?

The best thing you can do is stop babying him or thinking for him that he can't speak for himself and your job is to coax it out of him.

[MissCanuck]

OP, I think this isn't about being "in love" versus just "loving" someone. 

I think this is you trying to make yourself okay with a man who is emotionally distant. The sense I get is that you are hurt by his revelation that he isn't in love with you, and you're trying to rationalize it so that you can give yourself a reason to stay with him. 

It seems to me that all the analyzing in the world (he's cautious, scared, slow to progress) is you grasping at straws to convince yourself that he is Mr. Right, rather than seeing a more painful truth: you are a lot more into this relationship than he is. 

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, SleepyOwl1969 said:

Thank you for your input and perspective.

The love is definitely there on his part and online. I'm just trying to figure out what in love means to him and I guess the only person that can answer that is him. 

 

It doesn't matter what it means to him. He is telling you he is quite aware that he doesn't feel the same about you as you do about him. He is aware that you have stronger feelings for him -including stronger romantic feelings - than he does about you.  No need to get into definitions.  People who want to be committed to you want you to know that your feelings are reciprocated with the same strength or more.  No more answers needed.  The question is are you ok with this imbalance -he's been transparent and honest. This is all he has to offer.

[Batya33]

9 hours ago, Tinydance said:

There are people however that want a very passionate, exciting relationship and to be "in love" like in romantic movies. Like, on Valentine's Day and Birthday to get roses, chocolates, massages, hotel room, etc. I think it may also depend on people's love languages and the way they actually want to be in love.

I think it depends on whether the two people feel the same about each other and if the two people are happy with how they personally feel about each other such that in that relationship it feels reciprocated, balanced etc.  No need to go so far as love languages because in this case they're starting out with a significant imbalance- she's far more into him than he is into her so she will always be settling for scraps.  

[SleepyOwl1969]

13 hours ago, bluecastle said:

How recent is this past?

I ask because what you're describing sounds a lot like symptoms of emotional unavailability: someone on guard, not in a place to dive into the water but more comfortable at the shoreline. Great as everything is, do you find yourself longing for him to surrender to it all a bit more than he presently seems capable of? If everything stayed roughly as is do you think you could be fully content or itching for more?

The more you write the more I get the sense that the answers might be "yes" and "no," respectively. Is that correct? 

For whatever it's worth, I think "extremely cautious" could be applied to myself, and my girlfriend. We've both been bruised, scraped, burned. But healing all that, in order to be open to love, giving it and receiving it fully, was a path we were both on before meeting. I'm happy we've validated that journey in each other, rather than validating an instinct (alive in both of us, and occasionally something we have to deal with!) to stay guarded and protective. 

I share that not because I think we're some model for how it should be, but just to say: a year and a half is a pretty decent chunk of time to be with someone, and it sounds like you're feeling, understandably, a bit alone on a ledge. I like Andrina's advice about having an internal timeline to how long you can start sincerely comfortable on that ledge without being joined, as it sounds like you've brought this up plenty.  

When I told my girlfriend I loved her for the first time, about six months into things, it was because I knew by then that my love for her was a very hard fact, bigger than fleeting feeling, and keeping it to myself felt wrong. Thinking back, I would have been okay if she wasn't ready to say it back—at least for a bit. But it also would have stalled what I saw as us setting off to sea together, so to speak, which is what I wanted in a partnership.

Maybe I'm off here, but my sense is that you're wanting to head into those deeper waters with him. If that's the case, make sure to own that truth, and keep it on a higher plane than all the decoding of his emotions and exuding his reticence. The puzzle of another is not one we can ever complete. That's why it's so important to be comfortable alongside all the pieces. 

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. It sounds like you and your girlfriend have a great relationship and I'm happy that you are able to deal with things prior to developing a relationship. And are also able to manage when things arise.

The truth is that I am very happy in the relationship. He treats me well, we have good chemistry, good communication etc. So now I ask myself the question, if I'm happy, does it really matter if he meets MY definition of being in love?

 

[DarkCh0c0]

3 minutes ago, SleepyOwl1969 said:

So now I ask myself the question, if I'm happy, does it really matter if he meets MY definition of being in love?

So you're okay with being in a relationship with a man who is not in love with you?

If you're totally okay with that, and choose to settle for less than what you deserve, then sure go ahead.

[SleepyOwl1969]

13 hours ago, Batya33 said:

How it's defined is completely irrelevant.  There are varying definitions and it's relevant if you're doing an analysis for your studies or your job or out of idle curiosity.  Not relevant as far as figuring out what you're ok with.  He is not in love with you.  He has loving feelings towards you.  You are in love with him. Is the imbalance ok with you?  If it is  and you're not settling, cool.  But if it's going to eat away at you it is not ok.

I have a friend in her 60s.  She's been with her partner for over 10 years. They are each divorced and he has grown kids, she has no kids.   He told her way back when that he wanted her to know he was never getting married again.  She did want to marry again.  Finally he moved in with her.  He's never proposed to her.  They are still very much together.  She settled for what he was offering.  I haven't spoken to her in years now but I know 10 years ago when they'd been dating a couple of years she was over the moon about him and happy.  But she's also settling.

You have to look inside yourself and be bluntly honest with yourself that he doesn't see you as his one - not in an in love way.  Please don't tell yourself lies about how "in love" is silly/only infatuation/not necessary.  If it is necessary to you decide whether it's ok if he never falls in love with you.  

You're right, there are varying definitions of what I'm asking.

For me personally I would like to be in love with my partner. I've had the flip side of that, lack of passion, sexual chemistry etc and I don't like being on that side of the fence. This I know for sure.

Because there are so many different definitions of being in love, or even loving someone for that matter, he could be in love by MY definition of it. If that makes sense LOL

I think it is important to find out what his definition of in love is. It means different things to different people.

Again, outside of him proclaiming that he is in love with me, there is nothing I would change about the relationship. And I don't find that I would be settling at all. 

 

[MissCanuck]

10 minutes ago, SleepyOwl1969 said:

does it really matter if he meets MY definition of being in love?

What was your initial reaction (inside yourself) when he told you he's not in love with you? 

[SleepyOwl1969]

12 hours ago, jul-els said:

It’s semantics. You love someone or you don’t. He’s saying he does, but based on what I’m understanding, it sounds like he’s a little bit scared of it. You, not so much. You know that you’re happy in love. That being the case, enjoy it. There are no guarantees in love, and his self-doubt may dissipate or it may not, but as you know you love him, you can have the joy of doing so for as long as you’ll both allow. No one can predict how long that will be, but it’s a universal truth, regardless of who you choose to partner with.

Yes, I agree.

There is no doubt in my mind that he does love me, that's for sure. And I do know that he takes the idea of a relationship very seriously. So, having me meet his parents and his friends and being introduced to my children are not things that he takes lightly.

Am I willing to throw away a great relationship just because he doesn't use the words that I would like him to despite his actions aligning with my expectations? That's another question. 

[SleepyOwl1969]

13 hours ago, waffle said:

I'd be very careful about assigning feelings to him that he doesn't have, i.e. "he might actually be in love with me and not know it because he treats me so well" and "he says he was in love with this other woman but he was probably just infatuated."   This is wishful thinking on your part.  If he tells you now, however far removed this relationship is, that he was in love with her, then you can be sure he was in love with her.  Consider also the possibility that he might still be in love with her.  Maybe not in an active, still-in-contact-with-her way, but more of a "the one that got away" and/or regrets about breaking up with her (if he did) or not fighting hard enough for her (if she broke up with him) and maybe even subconsciously keeping himself available for her.  Obviously conjecture on my part but something is very off here and now he's put you in a position of waiting for something that may never happen with his "I'm not in love with you . . . yet" comments and answering your "do you think it might come in time?" with a yes.  After a year and a half, the odds are not in your favor.

A man who is truly serious about his current relationship does not talk like this.

I agree that I should not assign feelings to him . 

I think I might have to disagree with what you're saying about him not talking like this if he were truly serious.

The relationship is serious in every way as I've mentioned in other comments. He does not take it lightly at all. The reason it took as long as it did for him to meet my children was because of that fact. He wants/needs  to be sure.

I know it sounds like I am making up excuses for him and I can see that people may think that from the outside looking in. 

I seem to put timelines on things where relationships are concerned. He should be my boyfriend by this time, he should say I Love You by this time etc. But what if his timeline is not the same as mine? What if his past experiences in relationships has caused him to be more cautious and for his timeline to be different than mine? I obviously I'm not as cautious as he is and so when I feel something I would like to say it. But that's just me.

[SleepyOwl1969]

10 hours ago, Tinydance said:

 

I think also people have different ways they like to be in a relationship, what they're looking for in a relationship and how they feel. 

Yes I agree. While he and I align in many many different ways, his definition and my definition of Love or being in love may not be the same. 

His actions show me, by MY definition of being in love, that he is there.  

It doesn't seem to be a concern of his as to whether or not he is " in love" (whatever his definition is) with me at this point. 

And when I say he's not concerned that's not a bad thing; he's told me that he's not concerned about it because he likes where things are and where things are going and that he feels he can get there over time.

[SleepyOwl1969]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately it seems like you are projecting your own bad marriage onto this. 

Almost like you want to sabotage this by pressing and pressing and pressing.

Ok. He's a confirmed bachelor. So if this repetitive "do you love me" discussion is for something else like marriage or living together, yes you're stepping on the gas and looking for reassurance.

You seem happy. But you also seem to want to keep rocking the boat unnecessarily until you finally capsize it.

It's a year. You're not wasting time playing house. So what is it you actually want out of this? Are you on a timeline that you need a ring by now and needling him will give him the message?

The best thing you can do is stop babying him or thinking for him that he can't speak for himself and your job is to coax it out of him.

I don't think I had a bad marriage at all LOL it was just missing a piece; sexual attraction. I don't think that makes it a bad marriage 🤷‍♀️

We were actually quite happy, despite that.

No, I'm not on a timeline for him to give me a ring. At least not a conscious timeline. In fact I don't know that I even want or need  get married again. He and I have had this discussion a couple of times actually.

 

[Wiseman2]

Just now, SleepyOwl1969 said:

I'm not on a timeline for him to give me a ring. At least not a conscious timeline. 

Ok, try to be happy if you're happy. You seem to be scrutinizing words and romcom concepts to death. And not being "in love" with your husband is what you told him on your way out. Your words.

[SleepyOwl1969]

6 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

OP, I think this isn't about being "in love" versus just "loving" someone. 

I think this is you trying to make yourself okay with a man who is emotionally distant. The sense I get is that you are hurt by his revelation that he isn't in love with you, and you're trying to rationalize it so that you can give yourself a reason to stay with him. 

It seems to me that all the analyzing in the world (he's cautious, scared, slow to progress) is you grasping at straws to convince yourself that he is Mr. Right, rather than seeing a more painful truth: you are a lot more into this relationship than he is. 

I guess this is part of a new series of questions that I have. 

There definitely was a point where I would say I was more into this relationship then he was. Or rather more emotionally available then he was. 

Why do phrases like "he's cautious", "he's scared and slow to progress" mean that I'm grasping at straws to convince myself that he's the right person? What if these things are absolutely 100% true for him and his situation with me? 

I'm not trying to make excuses I'm genuinely just asking. I have a girlfriend of mine who is almost a carbon copy of him when it comes to relationships. She's extremely cautious and very slow to progress even in her marriage, believe it or not. It took her a very very long time to reach a certain stage and one that matched her husband's. They've been together for over 30 years now and are very happy. 

So I guess knowing her has made me realize that the above comments may not actually be excuses but :could be' in fact his truth and his reality. 

 

[SleepyOwl1969]

42 minutes ago, DarkCh0c0 said:

So you're okay with being in a relationship with a man who is not in love with you?

If you're totally okay with that, and choose to settle for less than what you deserve, then sure go ahead.

I guess that's the thing, he treats me as though he is in love with me. You can ask anyone who knows us. So I don't know that I would be settling for less than I deserve just because he doesn't use the words that I want to hear.

 

[Andrina]

In answer to your question, he says he's only been in love once. That means that he's reached a pinnacle with another woman that he's not feeling with you. Most people want to feel like they are the specialist treasure to their partners and all the exes pale in comparison. A year and a half is a substantial amount of time to spend with someone, where normally people feel infatuation the first 4 to 6 months, and then love begins to gradually build.

Either he's too broken to let love in at a normal pace, or he settles for an even keel mediocrity because he doesn't have women beating down his door to date him.

To me, at 52 years old, it's concerning that his longest relationship has been 6 years. Could it be those women tried to wait around for him to truly love them, before giving up? You should be concerned about that timeframe pattern.

So you've experience pretty words without the guy showing they were true.

Now you have a guy that shows he cares, but he's saying he's still not "in love." There is no guarantee he ever will be.

The thing of it is, both of those situations are not ideal. It's like the Goldilocks and the 3 Bears story. This chair is too hard, this chair is too soft, but this chair is just right.

The "just right" would be a man who can both show and tell. That's why I would free myself to find the guy who has the ability to date at a normal pace and lacks baggage plus red flags.

 

[SleepyOwl1969]

40 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

What was your initial reaction (inside yourself) when he told you he's not in love with you? 

My initial reaction? Devastation LOL

BUT I'm one of those highly sensitive and emotional people. I tend to overreact emotionally a lot, and I need to try to rationalize things quite a lot of the time. This is why I'm here. So that I can step out of my emotional box and try to gain a more rational perspective of things. 

[SleepyOwl1969]

12 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Ok, try to be happy if you're happy. You seem to be scrutinizing words and romcom concepts to death. And not being "in love" with your husband is what you told him on your way out. Your words.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by the last sentence.

And I'm not trying to be happy I actually am happy LOL I'm just wondering if I'm putting too much emphasis on words I want to hear as opposed to actions that he provides me daily.

 

[MissCanuck]

3 minutes ago, SleepyOwl1969 said:

My initial reaction? Devastation LOL

Listen to your gut. 

It's trying to tell you something. 

[SleepyOwl1969]

6 minutes ago, Andrina said:

In answer to your question, he says he's only been in love once. That means that he's reached a pinnacle with another woman that he's not feeling with you. Most people want to feel like they are the specialist treasure to their partners and all the exes pale in comparison. A year and a half is a substantial amount of time to spend with someone, where normally people feel infatuation the first 4 to 6 months, and then love begins to gradually build.

Either he's too broken to let love in at a normal pace, or he settles for an even keel mediocrity because he doesn't have women beating down his door to date him.

To me, at 52 years old, it's concerning that his longest relationship has been 6 years. Could it be those women tried to wait around for him to truly love them, before giving up? You should be concerned about that timeframe pattern.

So you've experience pretty words without the guy showing they were true.

Now you have a guy that shows he cares, but he's saying he's still not "in love." There is no guarantee he ever will be.

The thing of it is, both of those situations are not ideal. It's like the Goldilocks and the 3 Bears story. This chair is too hard, this chair is too soft, but this chair is just right.

The "just right" would be a man who can both show and tell. That's why I would free myself to find the guy who has the ability to date at a normal pace and lacks baggage plus red flags.

 

But I guess my question is, what is a normal pace? Is there a normal pace? Yes mine is obviously different than his is. But does that make mine wrong because it's too fast or is wrong because he's not quick enough?

No, there is no guarantee that he will ever be. And there's no guarantee about anything, really. Maybe for him and other people being in love with doesn't equal longevity. Maybe people can have a great relationships, in all aspects. But still never fulfill their definition of being in love, whatever that definition is to them.

I don't know ...

[SleepyOwl1969]

5 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

Listen to your gut. 

It's trying to tell you something. 

I hear what you're saying and I'm not trying to make excuses but it may not really my gut talking. It's my overly emotional self. Lol

I say this because I'm like this generally speaking not just in relationships. My overthinking and sometimes highly emotional state can do a very good job of masking any gut reaction. This is an unfortunate flaw in me.

But I understand what you're saying and it makes sense.

[MissCanuck]

You're trying too hard to make this all about you being overly-emotional, and not enough about him not being invested the way you are.  

I'm sorry. I think you are fooling yourself here and likely going to wind up struggling with this for however long this relationship lasts. 

It very much reads to me that he likes you well enough and cares about you, and will settle for you. But does he feel deep desire and excitement when he thinks about you? It doesn't appear so. 

[Tinydance]

Hmmm well I do think people can feel love on different levels but I guess what may be worrying is the language he used. Like, the "not sure" type of language. Even if someone doesn't feel the big butterflies and fireworks, after 1.5 years with someone if they know they love that person and see a future, it seems odd to say: "I'm not in love with you". That seems to signify some kind of negative feeling. You know what I mean?

[Rose Mosse]

I wouldn’t have stayed with someone like this and can’t remember this ever happening. There are too many red flags. You’re both older and have pasts which is understandable but the words he uttered are hurtful on different levels.

I’d focus less on the semantics and more on who he is as a person. Does he tend to philosophize and speak in circles? Says one thing and means another? Seems too distracted and busy to be in a relationship? Throws out oddball sentences and loves confusion? I’d weigh all these things against what he’s done with his life and how he treats others as well. Then decide whether I’m compatible with this person.