ONS - Pregnancy

[RKO]

6 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Then I would strongly advise not meeting if you feel you must argue with her or preserve your ego or pride in public.  You are too fragile to maintain control over your reactions to your feelings IMO in this incredibly sensitive situation.  She is pregnant.  So the second you lose your cool in any way -even slight -she wins whether that is fair or not and you will attract attention right away since she is now visibly pregnant.  Forget about your "points" -either this is tea with "the queen" or stay home.  Save your points for something toneless in writing either written by you or someone you may choose to consult.  Or save it for court or a mediator or any third person who is there to keep things polite and calm.

If she "unloads" load up your phone and whatever else you brought with you, quietly and calmly get up, say "I'm glad we met, have a good afternoon" and walk away calmly.  Calm.  Yes, you may feel like a "punching bag" -but being "right" in this situation is going to end up being counterproductive.  

Your last paragraph is what I mean, I won't stand for abuse so I will just leave.

"I haven't come here for abuse sorry, I'm leaving, have a good day"

[RKO]

11 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Nothing you discuss is legally binding anyway. If you want the child's DNA you'll need a court order. If she wants your DNA, she'll need a court order. Anything you talk about today can easily be dismissed with "I changed my mind".

Unless you two are signing documents in an attorney's office, this conversation won't lead to any specific result that has any weight or appeases either of you.

But it seems like you want to talk to her so see how that goes. 

Absolutely agree, I wish I had come here before messaging her last night.

I massively regret it now, I can't see anything good coming from this tonight 

[Batya33]

19 minutes ago, RKO said:

Your last paragraph is what I mean, I won't stand for abuse so I will just leave.

"I haven't come here for abuse sorry, I'm leaving, have a good day"

I would avoid any commentary especially since your word abuse or similar could be misheard by someone else.  "That man just said "I haven't come here to abuse you."" In front of a pregnant woman. The implications will not be a good look for you.  Understatement.   Keep your thoughts and feelings to yourself and swallow  your pride in favor of maintaining long term calm and peace.  If you can't keep your mouth shut then don't go.

Remember  you put your pride to the side in favor of prioritizing having an orgasm with her with your baby maker.  You didn't care then what impression you made or whether she was a good person or would treat you with respect or whatever.  So here your priority should be maintaining your cool at all times, avoiding any judgey/lecture-y snarky comments or any focus on your feelings or on your sense of self-respect.  Or don't go.  She's pregnant.  She wins.

[RKO]

2 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I would avoid any commentary especially since your word abuse could be misheard by someone else.  In front of a pregnant woman.  Keep your thoughts and feelings to yourself and swallow  your pride in favor of maintaining long term calm and peace.  

It’s not about pride, it’s about putting my thoughts and feelings across which would explain why I’m asking for what I’m asking for.

Or do pregnant women’s feelings trump everything?

[Wiseman2]

34 minutes ago, RKO said:

I massively regret it now, I can't see anything good coming from this tonight 

Not too late to cancel. It's better than yet another nonproductive continuation of this circular argument. It will just be anxiety and tempers flaring. Nothing she says is legally binding. She can tell you 4000x that she will allow DNA testing on the child or that she doesn't want child support etc. it all means nothing. 

[RKO]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Not too late to cancel. It's better than yet another nonproductive continuation of this circular argument. It will just be anxiety and tempers flaring. Nothing she says is legally binding. She can tell you 4000x that she will allow DNA testing on the child or that she doesn't want child support etc. it all means nothing. 

I think it's too late for that now @Wiseman2

She will just think I don't care about the situation, not wanting to talk about it etc

I should have left the sleeping dog in peace and perhaps woke it up when there was something I could have done.

yet another RKO mistake 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, RKO said:

Or do pregnant women’s feelings trump everything?

The health and wellbeing of the baby trumps everything.

Regardless of whether or not SHE has caused herself stress, you should not be adding to it by contacting her and then engaging in an argument. 

I hope at the very least as a human you would want the baby to be healthy.

[RKO]

5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

The health and wellbeing of the baby trumps everything.

Regardless of whether or not SHE has caused herself stress, you should not be adding to it by contacting her and then engaging in an argument. 

I hope at the very least as a human you would want the baby to be healthy.

There is no direct link to stress and cause of miscarriage if that's what you are suggesting.

Of course I don't wish or harm on anyone's health, including my own, which has been effected massively here and selfish as it sounds, I'm looking afteryself above anyone in this case 

[Batya33]

2 hours ago, RKO said:

It’s not about pride, it’s about putting my thoughts and feelings across which would explain why I’m asking for what I’m asking for.

Or do pregnant women’s feelings trump everything?

In this situation this pregnant woman’s feelings when she meets you in public for this meeting trumps your need to express negativity.  Nothing more broad. 

[Batya33]

20 minutes ago, RKO said:

There is no direct link to stress and cause of miscarriage if that's what you are suggesting.

Of course I don't wish or harm on anyone's health, including my own, which has been effected massively here and selfish as it sounds, I'm looking afteryself above anyone in this case 

Do you really want to give an an impression in public that you’re stressing out a pregnant woman?  There most likely is a direct link.  But I’m not a medical professional.  I recall when I was stressed at a work meeting my baby started kicking up a storm. Which was great and fun except yes my baby most likely was reacting to me being stressed about presenting to some really influential people at my company that day. 

[RKO]

3 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Do you really want to give an an impression in public that you’re stressing out a pregnant woman?  There most likely is a direct link.  But I’m not a medical professional.  I recall when I was stressed at a work meeting my baby started kicking up a storm. Which was great and fun except yes my baby most likely was reacting to me being stressed about presenting to some really influential people at my company that day. 

Or how about in public a pregnant woman stressing out a man and causing him upset?

Or does it only apply one way?

Regardless, if she starts kicking up a fuss and screaming at me just for putting points across calmly like I have over text then that says more about her than me and I will leave 

[Batya33]

Just now, RKO said:

Or how about in public a pregnant woman stressing out a man and causing him upset?

Or does it only apply one way?

Regardless, if she starts kicking up a fuss and screaming at me just for putting points across calmly like I have over text then that says more about her than me and I will leave 

Yes like I said leave. But without comments. Maybe she’s recording too. This isn’t about generally what’s true.  I think generally if it matters a pregnant woman growing a human takes priority stress wise - if someone is going to feel stress better it’s the non-pregnant person.  No one should feel stress.  I remember my husband tread very lightly when in my hormonal state I spent a $50 wedding gift card on approximately 40 dried apricots from a fancy home goods store. I’d never tried that brand. In real life he’d likely have said with a bit of assertiveness “this is a huge waste of money !”  Instead he said “um have you ever tried these?”  Just a gentle comment. Which prompted me to return to the really snobby high end store and exchange them for two luxury bath towels. So yes he catered to me more when I was pregnant. Did I feel “entitled?”  No not really.  Especially not at work other than my limits on air travel and working very late nights. 
This is a time to get off your sense of “I will NOT be disrespected by this awful woman!!!” And think long term.  Catch bees with honey. 

[RKO]

Just now, Batya33 said:

Yes like I said leave. But without comments. Maybe she’s recording too. This isn’t about generally what’s true.  I think generally if it matters a pregnant woman growing a human takes priority stress wise - if someone is going to feel stress better it’s the non-pregnant person.  No one should feel stress.  I remember my husband tread very lightly when in my hormonal state I spent a $50 wedding gift card on approximately 40 dried apricots from a fancy home goods store. I’d never tried that brand. In real life he’d likely have said with a bit of assertiveness “this is a huge waste of money !”  Instead he said “um have you ever tried these?”  Just a gentle comment. Which prompted me to return to the really snobby high end store and exchange them for two luxury bath towels. So yes he catered to me more when I was pregnant. Did I feel “entitled?”  No not really.  Especially not at work other than my limits on air travel and working very late nights. 
This is a time to get off your sense of “I will NOT be disrespected by this awful woman!!!” And think long term.  Catch bees with honey. 

I’ve been nothing but polite the whole way through and been told I’m an awful human being, she told me she wanted to punch me the day after we had sex when I said the pill might not work if ovulated, so as you can see she was aggressive even before being pregnant (unless she was pregnant at the time)

so as you can see I’ve been disrespected the whole way through and tbh I’m quite sick of it and how society (and a fair few here) presumes I’m the bad guy in this situation.

After today if she’s still aggressive I’ll 100% walk away, delete and block. I will have done all I can.

[Batya33]

3 minutes ago, RKO said:

I’ve been nothing but polite the whole way through and been told I’m an awful human being, she told me she wanted to punch me the day after we had sex when I said the pill might not work if ovulated, so as you can see she was aggressive even before being pregnant (unless she was pregnant at the time)

so as you can see I’ve been disrespected the whole way through and tbh I’m quite sick of it and how society (and a fair few here) presumes I’m the bad guy in this situation.

After today if she’s still aggressive I’ll 100% walk away, delete and block. I will have done all I can.

We agree.  Walk away quietly and calmly as you don’t know who’s looking or listening.  I’m sorry she treated you badly.  Much less risk of this if you know a person before having unprotected sex and want to make a baby or are fine making a baby. I don’t presume anything.  Life isn’t fair.  People with disabilities often are cut more slack and some people with disabilities take advantage and act out because they can get away with it. Some people without disabilities also act badly. Obviously I’m not here to debate whether this is wrong or right. I’ve known people with disabilities who refuse any sort of help and even are advocates for others with disabilities.   I’ve known people with disabilities who refuse help and justify acting out and acting badly but won’t help themselves. Pregnancy is a disability. It’s hopefully a temporary disability.  It varies in how disabling.  But it is one.  And people with disabilities often get preferential treatment and pregnant women in particular often are cut a lot of slack for behaving in ways that might seem like an overreaction or overly emotional. 
I’d avoid the pity party of how awful it is to be a man in this situation or going on about “society.”   You chose a fun sexual romp and orgasm over the risks. For you the consequences are fairly significant compared to a woman who would not have become pregnant.  

[RKO]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

We agree.  Walk away quietly and calmly as you don’t know who’s looking or listening.  I’m sorry she treated you badly.  Much less risk of this if you know a person before having unprotected sex and want to make a baby or are fine making a baby. I don’t presume anything.  Life isn’t fair.  People with disabilities often are cut more slack and some people with disabilities take advantage and act out because they can get away with it. Some people without disabilities also act badly. Obviously I’m not here to debate whether this is wrong or right. I’ve known people with disabilities who refuse any sort of help and even are advocates for others with disabilities.   I’ve known people with disabilities who refuse help and justify acting out and acting badly but won’t help themselves. Pregnancy is a disability. It’s hopefully a temporary disability.  It varies in how disabling.  But it is one.  And people with disabilities often get preferential treatment and pregnant women in particular often are cut a lot of slack for behaving in ways that might seem like an overreaction or overly emotional. 
I’d avoid the pity party of how awful it is to be a man in this situation or going on about “society.”   You chose a fun sexual romp and orgasm over the risks. For you the consequences are fairly significant compared to a woman who would not have become pregnant.  

The woman who is pro-choice and pro-abortion had a choice what to do.

The woman dilly-dallied over the MAP (not even sure if she took it)

She also knew the risks in a drunken night of sex.

 

 

Apart from the latter I had no other say in any of this at all. So your passive blame on me here isn’t working

 

[Wiseman2]

46 minutes ago, RKO said:

screaming at me just for putting points across calmly like I have over text

What point to do want to make? Nothing  you two discuss is legally binding. Whether in text or in person so bringing whatever it is again won't work.

What is it you want from each other?

Frankly if she wants to reduce her stress, she should block you and never have agreed to meeting.

[boltnrun]

I would be less worried about what people might think and more concerned with the health of the baby and therefore of the woman who's carrying the baby. Anything that can be done to minimize stress should be done. You certainly can't control what she chooses to do or say but you can control your own words and actions.

https://www.child-encyclopedia.com/stress-and-pregnancy-prenatal-and-perinatal/according-experts/effects-prenatal-stress-child

 

 

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, RKO said:

The woman who is pro-choice and pro-abortion had a choice what to do.

The woman dilly-dallied over the MAP (not even sure if she took it)

She also knew the risks in a drunken night of sex.

 

 

Apart from the latter I had no other say in any of this at all. So your passive blame on me here isn’t working

 

I don’t know any women who are pro abortion.  I know many women who are pro choice. I am pro choice. With extremely rare exceptions I would never ever have terminated my own pregnancy. I gave my support to women I knew and knew of who chose to terminate.  I am pro choice generally as well.  But not for me personally. You have no idea what it’s like to be a pregnant woman considering the option of abortion.  
from what I know the morning after pill can have really unpleasant side effects.  No personal knowledge. You have no right to insist another person ingest an optional prescription med. especially one with risks. 

I was pregnant one time in my life. I had to consider the abortion option hypothetically because of my extremely limited exceptions. I had to consider whether I was going to take tests that had the risk of miscarriage (so we didn’t ) and you have no idea what it’s like to have to consider those options and weigh the risks and benefits. 

I wrote many pages ago about my views on responsibilities here including hers. Feel free to search but please don’t rehash 

[boltnrun]

Maybe it would be good for you to see her in person. Right now you seem to view her as just some woman who's aggravating you and getting you upset and doing something you feel is ruining your life. You don't seem to be able to separate her from the innocent baby she's carrying. So maybe once you see her pregnant belly and the different way she has to move it'll hit home that this baby isn't some abstract concept or a THING that's destroying your life but an actual baby.

The guy who impregnated me and shouted at me, demanding I get an abortion, acted the same way. But when I got out of the hospital after I nearly died as a result of the pregnancy he had to come over to take me to a doctor appointment at the clinic (which I had to use since he refused any financial support). For some reason I showed really early with that pregnancy. I saw the look on his face when he saw my tiny baby bump. His face went from rage and irritation to a look of shock and sadness. It finally hit him that this was his actual baby I was carrying. It didn't make him change his mind about wanting me to abort but it made him realize this was an actual baby and not some inanimate thing that existed to destroy his life or some annoying inconvenience.

So yes, maybe you should see her in person. And maybe that's why she wants to meet. So you can see with your own eyes.

[tattoobunnie]

20 hours ago, RKO said:

Ok maybe shocked not the right word, but surprised that she still can’t see my point of view. 

It's been 2.5 months, and you still can't see her point of view either.

[DarkCh0c0]

Let us know how the meeting goes.

I'm with you and I get how you feel. You can't fully let it slide. Imagine you start dating a woman, get engaged and then one day this lady shows up with your kid and wants you to contribute. It's messy... 

But that's why ONS are so risky specially when men don't use protection. It's your load that got you in this mess.

Hopefully she'll agree to the post-natal paternity test. Please be kind to her regardless. She's a human being after all and you both made/share this mistake.

[mylolita]

On 10/13/2022 at 6:25 PM, gamon said:

He did exactly that, as per his posts on this thread.

I don't get why some members are beating up on this guy and tell him what he "should have done" and to stop harassing her when he hasn't had any contact with her in the better part of a month after he said he'd support the child if it was proven to be his.

Any one of us can be an Armchair A-Hole and make the right call after the fact. It's not helpful, and it's not the least bit supportive.

I don't mean to come in all righteous, but I agree - it's very easy to comment and say "well just do this do that just go to therapy" or "well don't have sex unless you would be willing to have a baby with that person". I'm sorry, I've never been with another man apart from my husband, but the majority of all casual sex is exactly that - extremely casual, and I'm sorry, I don't believe the average person in their moment of passion is saying to themselves I'll only do this if I'm prepared to be a parent if a pregnancy happens. I'm just being realistic here. I take it none of us (I believe!) have ever been in this situation before? 

I have had to suffer through an unwanted pregnancy, and it was with my now husband (we just weren't married yet) and nothing was wrong. I also took the morning after pill. It was a surprise, and I didn't feel ready, and it was complete and utter turmoil, and it haunts me for the rest of my life. It's serious stuff. 

I get the impression the OP would really value someone chiming in who has first hand experience regarding this? I don't know if there is anyone out there on the forum?

I know personally myself, when you have an issue, as helpful and thankful as you can be when other people try to comfort, advise, and support, there is nothing like connecting and talking to someone who has actually been there and got the t-shirt. There's no comparison.

I don't believe just because you haven't experienced something, doesn't mean you can't offer advice - but this IS so very stressful and IS so life changing, that I can understand why the OP is stressed, anxious, and unable to switch off or "step back". I think it's understandable. 

x

[Batya33]

I have experienced this. I have considered having casual sex more than once. I did -in one relationship- have unprotected sex (meaning I was on the pill but no condom ) for about two months and fully protected sex for an additional month.  Many times. And I promised him I’d abort if I got pregnant.  He said he saw us getting serious but didn’t want a baby before marriage.  Never said he loved me. Only man I ever slept with who didn’t say he loved me and was very serious about me.

but I was lying to myself and to him because I don’t think I could have terminated. I was very very wrong in making that promise. I am just darn lucky I didn’t get pregnant. I never ever did that again and I never lied about using protection when I wasn’t etc.  

there were times with other boyfriends I was on antibiotics or missed my pill once or took it at the wrong time of day and I always told my SO.  And we would decide together whether to risk if. 
the times I was tempted to have casual sex I decided not to. But I know how it feels to be in that moment or passion and for me no matter how carried away I was the pregnancy risk was always a top priority because of my feelings on the matter.

 I can see where a woman who views abortion as an option then she’ll choose the risk and then even if the man wants the resulting pregnancy well I guess he’s out of luck ….  Which to me isn’t the right way to approach it. Even with a ONS. 

I had relatively few partners and I don’t believe my husband ever experienced an accidental pregnancy. He most likely would have offered marriage. He didn’t have casual sex either.  But we never discussed it. We just discussed our plans if I got pregnant despite using protection. 

[mylolita]

I mean Batya, has anyone ever had the experience of having an unwanted or unexpected baby with someone who was a casual one time hook up?

I don't think any of us can put ourselves exactly in the OP's shoes this time. It's fine to advise from the sideline, I do it, we all do it - but I think this is major, and I can feel the stress coming from the OP (correct me if I'm wrong here @RKO) and, I think he is trying to do the right thing. I think probably he feels like he would just like to run away, but sometimes, we also have to live with ourselves.

Not everyone discusses with sexual partners whether they would abort their hypothetical babies. It's not the most arousing thing is it. I get the impression you are particularly planned, for all of your life. This isn't most people. Some people fly by the seat of their pants and give in to impulse more. It doesn't make them bad or unwise automatically. We all make mistakes, sometimes, the mistakes are big ones. 

When you are dealing with an unwanted pregnancy that is already here, already happened, not hypothetically discussed, it's extremely stressful.  

I don't think personally the OP is taking things the wrong way.

x

[RKO]

18 minutes ago, mylolita said:

I mean Batya, has anyone ever had the experience of having an unwanted or unexpected baby with someone who was a casual one time hook up?

I don't think any of us can put ourselves exactly in the OP's shoes this time. It's fine to advise from the sideline, I do it, we all do it - but I think this is major, and I can feel the stress coming from the OP (correct me if I'm wrong here @RKO) and, I think he is trying to do the right thing. I think probably he feels like he would just like to run away, but sometimes, we also have to live with ourselves.

Not everyone discusses with sexual partners whether they would abort their hypothetical babies. It's not the most arousing thing is it. I get the impression you are particularly planned, for all of your life. This isn't most people. Some people fly by the seat of their pants and give in to impulse more. It doesn't make them bad or unwise automatically. We all make mistakes, sometimes, the mistakes are big ones. 

When you are dealing with an unwanted pregnancy that is already here, already happened, not hypothetically discussed, it's extremely stressful.  

I don't think personally the OP is taking things the wrong way.

x

Thank you, you are right about me, my feelings and the situation as a whole all throughout your post. It was comforting to read.  Thanks.

 

will update all on how the meeting went now…