Divorce after over 30 years of marriage?

[Meg1969]

2 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

You just asked. Yet now you say:

No I don't think there is any point in their meeting. I was only asking DF 's opinion because it sounded like they were perhaps suggesting that. Miscommunication 😁

[LaHermes]

5 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

but he needs to mind his manners and be civil. Why can't you speak up to him and put your foot down about that? It's called having boundaries.

Now we're getting somewhere DF. 

Are you afraid of him Meg?  He is sadly lacking in respect for you as well. 

[Meg1969]

8 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

it's not on her to try to apologize or beg for an attitude change from him.

Oh, no need to worry there. I don't think she had any intention of apologising or begging. She can stand up for herself. 

 

10 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

he needs to mind his manners and be civil.

This won't be a problem if he doesn't want to ever be around her. 

[LaHermes]

21 hours ago, DancingFool said:

.along with boundaries that you communicate clearly and bluntly as well.

I'll ask again. Are you afraid of him, Meg?  Afraid to speak up instead of walking around on eggshells in peace-keeping mode?

And let's return to the title of your thread:  Which was formulated as a question?

"Divorce after over 30 years of marriage?"

[DancingFool]

2 minutes ago, Meg1969 said:

This won't be a problem if he doesn't want to ever be around her. 

Well then, when your mother is around, which isn't that often, she gets priority to see her grandkids and great grandkids and hubby can stay home and sulk. Problem solved.

If he doesn't want to stay home and sulk, then he needs to be civil to your mother. End of.

There really isn't any compromise here, just drawing some adult boundaries and making your expectations clear to hubs.

[Meg1969]

3 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

I'll ask again. Are you afraid of him, Meg?  Afraid to speak up instead of walking around on eggshellsin peace-keeping mode?

Well I'm not afraid of him in a physical sense but I do have a problem with speaking up for myself in general. I always have had. But that's my problem, something I know that I need to work on. 

[LaHermes]

2 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

when your mother is around, which isn't that often, she gets priority to see her grandkids and great grandkids and hubby can stay home and sulk. Problem solved.

If he doesn't want to stay home and sulk, then he needs to be civil to your mother. End of.

So well said. So concise.

2 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

drawing some adult boundaries and making your expectations clear to hubs.

And therein lies the heart of the matter. 

[LaHermes]

1 minute ago, Meg1969 said:

I'm not afraid of him in a physical sense but I do have a problem with speaking up for myself in general. I always have had

I should hope not! 

OK. So you have always had a problem speaking up for yourself.  Nothing is impossible, Meg.  You can learn how to do it. Like most things it begins with the first step. 

[Meg1969]

7 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

Well then, when your mother is around, which isn't that often, she gets priority to see her grandkids and great grandkids and hubby can stay home and sulk. Problem solved.

If he doesn't want to stay home and sulk, then he needs to be civil to your mother. End of.

There really isn't any compromise here, just drawing some adult boundaries and making your expectations clear to hubs.

Sounds about right! 👍  

[Wiseman2]

26 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

hubby can stay home and sulk. Problem solved.

Agree. So simple. Solves a lot of stress and strife for everyone.

[Meg1969]

44 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

And let's return to the title of your thread:  Which was formulated as a question?

"Divorce after over 30 years of marriage?"

I think about this question a lot but I can't seem to understand how to answer it. 

I wouldn't say that our marriage is anything near a disaster. I've mentioned some of my husband's qualities already. We spend quite a bit of our day together, shopping, gardening, doing DIY projects etc We do quite a few other things together too, even though I initiate almost all of them (going out for a meal, weekends away). 

That being said, there is the other side of things, some of which have already been mentioned here. We have very bad communication skills and often fall into patterns of bickering and criticism. I often find it really hard to have a decent, meaningful conversation with him. He can be very argumentative and although I don't like to use stereotypes, many (older) Greek men are this way. They don't realise that a conversation doesn't have to be about who's right or wrong. I want to be able to just sit and talk, and see where the conversation takes us. 

[LaHermes]

19 hours ago, Meg1969 said:

We have very bad communication skills and often fall into patterns of bickering and criticism. I often find it really hard to have a decent, meaningful conversation with him.

 

19 hours ago, Meg1969 said:

I want to be able to just sit and talk, and see where the conversation takes us. 

I really feel for you, Meg.  I mean that honestly.  I couldn't bear that for even one week, let alone 30 years. Just remember that types (whether Greek or from anywhere else) who always want to be right (my way or the highway) have vast insecurities and cannot see anything in a balanced fashion. 

So, you probably have a lot of thinking to do. You say you married very young so I am guessing that you are not that old. Life is great Meg, and it is short. If you can't take this any more then you know the options. 

[Wiseman2]

20 hours ago, Meg1969 said:

I think about this question a lot but I can't seem to understand how to answer it. 

I wouldn't say that our marriage is anything near a disaster.. We spend quite a bit of our day together, shopping, gardening, doing DIY projects etc We do quite a few other things together too

We have very bad communication skills and often fall into patterns of bickering and criticism.

So you don't want a divorce, you want to stop the who's right who's wrong game?

That takes 2. You seem quite set in your ways. So much so that you push refusing to apply simple solutions such as letting your husband stay home.

In other words, you can divorce, but since you are at least 50% of this "I'm right" problem, whoever you are with, you'll have the same issues.

 Insight would benefit you, so would taking responsibly rather than finger pointing and painting anyone who doesn't think exactly like you as a monster.

[LaHermes]

On 6/3/2021 at 1:23 PM, Meg1969 said:

These negative comments aren't over anything specific and they're not particularly harsh (no swearing/name calling is involved) but I'm finding it SO tiring.   I feel so sad when I think that I'll have to listen to them for the rest of my life.  It's mainly about (although not limited to) family members.  For instance, whenever we go to a family gathering there will ALWAYS be someone there that he has to moan about to me afterwards.  He can NEVER just go somewhere, enjoy the company and afterwards say how nice it was to see everyone again.  I'd say that he has complaints/reasons to moan about 90% of all our family members.  The situation with my mother has got so bad that he refuses to ever be in the same room with her again.  

He sounds like a real joy to be around! And the thing about your mother is so utterly childish. She didn't do him any harm. 

[Meg1969]

2 hours ago, LaHermes said:

So, you probably have a lot of thinking to do

Yes, I do. 

Many, many thanks to you for your understanding, advice and support. I appreciate it. ❤️

[Meg1969]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

So you don't want a divorce, you want to stop the who's right who's wrong game?

That takes 2.

Agreed. Can't argue with you there.

 

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

 

 You seem quite set in your ways. So much so that you push refusing to apply simple solutions such as letting your husband stay home.

 

While I appreciate anyone taking the time to answer my post and am open to listening to all opinions, please don't just send random statements that have absolutely nothing to do with anything I have posted. That doesn't really help anyone. If you look back, you'll see that I clearly stated that I was in total agreement to letting my husband stay home.  And I have never called anyone 'a monster'.  This isn't the first time you've misquoted something I said.  But anyway, no worries. Perhaps you're reading so many posts on here that you got mixed up. 

[Bothered2021]

Between your post and some of the responses my brain is mush. So I’m gonna touch upon the things that stuck out. I think that after 30 years, things can get stale and you get comfortable being your true self, grumpy and all. Plus, you do get grumpier with age and stress. I’m only 34 and I’m a hell of a lot more negative than I was at 25 lol. Maybe just tell him everytime he says something negative, “I can’t engage in this conversation because I am trying focus on positivity” or something less corny. Then go do something alone. 
If he wants to complain about his own family, let him. You can chime in with how nice it was to see them all and that you didn’t notice the same negatives he did. But I do not like my sister AT ALL. Every interaction with her is negative or dramatic and you can bet your ass I’ll have something to say about her. Actually it usually starts with us saying these things to each other. And nobody can tell me to think happy thoughts about her. If they said they didn’t want to hear it, I could respect that though. 
Your mom, is a tough one. She’s your mom, so she’s not gonna just go away and you aren’t going to throw your relationship with her away because your husband doesn’t like her. I would tell her that she needs to be respectful to him or we would have to see her less. And I would have to tell him that if he can’t respect my mom, I will have to spend less time with him when she is around. I think she’s a little wrong in what she said. I get her not wanting you guys to take over her house, but she is almost never there. When she is there, you take care of her. And the home maintenance has to be done by you and your husband, as well as when she isn’t there. As long as you are respecting her home and not causing damages or added bills, idk why it would bother her. But it is her house so I don’t know. But I also don’t know why her saying that is so unforgivable. 
and I get why you are having troubles and are asking for advice, while not really wanting to leave your life of 30 years. I’m not saying you have to accept it, but some people just grow old and grumpy. It becomes who they are. If it’s not something you want to deal with you don’t have to. 
Maybe you go stay at your moms for a little bit and he can stay at home. You can check in when need be but live your own lives for awhile. See if that makes you happier. See if it inspires him to make changes. You don’t even have to throw out the word divorce. Just a trial separation 

[Meg1969]

21 hours ago, Bothered2021 said:

Between your post and some of the responses my brain is mush. So I’m gonna touch upon the things that stuck out. I think that after 30 years, things can get stale and you get comfortable being your true self, grumpy and all. Plus, you do get grumpier with age and stress. I’m only 34 and I’m a hell of a lot more negative than I was at 25 lol. Maybe just tell him everytime he says something negative, “I can’t engage in this conversation because I am trying focus on positivity” or something less corny. Then go do something alone. 
If he wants to complain about his own family, let him. You can chime in with how nice it was to see them all and that you didn’t notice the same negatives he did. But I do not like my sister AT ALL. Every interaction with her is negative or dramatic and you can bet your ass I’ll have something to say about her. Actually it usually starts with us saying these things to each other. And nobody can tell me to think happy thoughts about her. If they said they didn’t want to hear it, I could respect that though. 
Your mom, is a tough one. She’s your mom, so she’s not gonna just go away and you aren’t going to throw your relationship with her away because your husband doesn’t like her. I would tell her that she needs to be respectful to him or we would have to see her less. And I would have to tell him that if he can’t respect my mom, I will have to spend less time with him when she is around. I think she’s a little wrong in what she said. I get her not wanting you guys to take over her house, but she is almost never there. When she is there, you take care of her. And the home maintenance has to be done by you and your husband, as well as when she isn’t there. As long as you are respecting her home and not causing damages or added bills, idk why it would bother her. But it is her house so I don’t know. But I also don’t know why her saying that is so unforgivable. 
and I get why you are having troubles and are asking for advice, while not really wanting to leave your life of 30 years. I’m not saying you have to accept it, but some people just grow old and grumpy. It becomes who they are. If it’s not something you want to deal with you don’t have to. 
Maybe you go stay at your moms for a little bit and he can stay at home. You can check in when need be but live your own lives for awhile. See if that makes you happier. See if it inspires him to make changes. You don’t even have to throw out the word divorce. Just a trial separation 

Thanks for your advice.  You make some good points for me to think about. 

 

[East4]

Your husband resents your mother, but he seems to forget that you both live in her house rent free. I think at least for that, he could be civil with her on the odd occasion she attends a family function.

It would not be a good idea to hide from your mother that there will be a birthday party. She will find out later and be hurt that you hid it from her. I'd suggest you go to the party with your mother.

[Wiseman2]

6 minutes ago, East4 said:

 he seems to forget that you both live in her house rent free. 

When did they move from their own house to looking after hers?

[East4]

On 6/3/2021 at 4:04 PM, Meg1969 said:

We would often stay there both when she was or wasn't there (it's better than our own house).  My mum, now a widow, continued to visit 3-4 times a year so this meant that we would often be under the same roof (big mistake) because it was difficult to leave her there alone.  She was in a foreign country and the house is in quite a cut-off area (she's 81 now). My mum then started to say that she didn't mind us using her house occasionally while she wasn't there but that she didn't want us to be there all the time she was away. 

So, I take it that, because mom's house is better than their, Meg and her husband actually live in her mom's house most of the time. Now the old lady feels uncomfortable to be in her own house when she visits, because of her grumpy son-in law. It is better for everyone if he clears the premises when the owner, Meg's mom is in Greece in her own house. And that Meg stays with her mom, this way also giving space to her husband to pout in peace. Meg's mom already expressed her dislike that Meg and her husband dwell in her house all the time she is not there. The mom has been quite generous to miss rental profits by letting Meg and her pouting husband live on her property rent free.

At least for that alone she deserves basic civility.

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, East4 said:

 I take it that.....

They are not living anywhere "rent free", they look after her house while she's away.

[dias]

12 minutes ago, East4 said:

So, I take it that, because mom's house is better than their

How do you know that? 

13 minutes ago, East4 said:

Meg and her husband actually live in her mom's house most of the time.

OP didn't say anything like that I think or I missed something in the thread 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, dias said:

How do you know that? OP didn't say anything like that  

Agree.  No one is living rent free.

[East4]

Looking after a house costs peanuts compared to a monthly rent of a nice house in Greece. I talk from experience. I have a house in my country of origin (neighboring country to Greece). When I have no tenants, I pay 20E to a neighbor to just pass by twice per month to water the plants. And some 100E per year to maintain the garden.

While when I rent out the house, it gets me 700E/month. The difference is incomparable.

I guess it started as "looking after the house" and it gradually grew into Meg and her husband actually living rent-free in a house, under the pretense that they are taking care of it. An empty house does not require hard labor every day to be looked after.