Is my ex in an abusive relaionship?

[Wiseman2]

Excellent. She's done the work for you, cutting things off. She is neither a friend nor a gf. Now delete and block her from all your devices, messaging apps, social media and contact lists. It would be better to invest your energy into someone local who you can have a stable ongoing relationship with. It's a waste of your time to do this extensive postmortem on a relationship/friendship that has been this conflicted, is long distance and offers nothing.

I can’t ask her anymore as she broke off all contact.

[DancingFool]

True.. true.. thanks for pointing that out. I am helped by your confirming that her words don't match her actions. That's what causes the confusion.

 

What made/keeps me invested is that she made me fall in love with her again. And she did it in an extremely powerful way, pushing all my buttons by playing into still existing feelings of trust, safety, loyalty, love, understanding. It's hard to resist especially combined with heavy flirting and sexual innuendo.

 

Like I wrote in another answer, I'm probably in denial how I have been played.

 

Thanks DancingFool for your insight.

 

You are an adult - nobody can make you do anything unless you allow and engage. How can you feel safe or talk about trust, loyalty, and understanding when someone is intentionally pushing your buttons and being manipulative? Serious question you need to think long and hard about.

 

It's not hard to resist at all. Getting rid of her is even more simple than her changing the locks. If you want this toxic drama out of your life, all you need to do is block and delete. It's a bit ironic that you sit here and call her a poor victim of this evil guy and yet here you are....doing exactly the same, playing a game because deep down you want to, because you aren't willing to end this. This isn't hard or rocket science. The problem is that right now at this moment, you are getting something out of this toxic game, so you won't cut her off. That's your call. Just be honest with yourself at least. Cutting her off is easy. Push of a button kind of easy. You don't even have to call a locksmith for that. You simply aren't ready.

[reinventmyself]

 

Thanks for your insight could you elaborate more why you actually think she IS being abused?

(Again, because most people here tend to see it the other way around?, just curious to know you're thinking process also)

 

She's in an abusive relationship. I did not assign any blame. It takes two willing parties.

[United]

Excellent. She's done the work for you, cutting things off. She is neither a friend nor a gf. Now delete and block her from all your devices, messaging apps, social media and contact lists. It would be better to invest your energy into someone local who you can have a stable ongoing relationship with. It's a waste of your time to do this extensive postmortem on a relationship/friendship that has been this conflicted, is long distance and offers nothing.

 

You're right Wiseman2. I have nothing to say against that.

 

Unfortunately sometimes it feels like a difficult thing to do for us humans as that's not how our brain works. We shared a lot the last decade. She pulled me back in hard pushing lots of emotional buttons.

 

However I know you are 100% right and I have to start doing that.

 

Thanks for your clear and honest advice Wiseman2.

[United]

She's in an abusive relationship. I did not assign any blame. It takes two willing parties.

 

Interesting insight reinventmyself. And probably very true. Thanks.

 

Are you perhaps referring to how for instance someone with a narcissistic personality attracts someone with ptsd or borderline disorder and they keep feeding into each other's abuse? Do you think that's going on here?

[reinventmyself]

Interesting insight reinventmyself. And probably very true. Thanks.

 

Are you perhaps referring to how for instance someone with a narcissistic personality attracts someone with ptsd or borderline disorder and they keep feeding into each other's abuse? Do you think that's going on here?

 

Try to not get lost in the weeds here and look at the bigger picture.

Do you want to know how healthy you are? (emotionally wise) Look at the company you keep.

Happy well adjusted people cross the street when they see crazy coming.

Water seeks it's own level.

You are attracted to or attract your equal.

Instead of trying to decode her or her behavior or the people she surrounds herself, you need to question why you are part of the mix.

The good news here is you know something stinks and you're asking questions.

But between now and then you are part of this dynamic.

Give that some thought.

[United]

Try to not get lost in the weeds here and look at the bigger picture.

Do you want to know how healthy you are? (emotionally wise) Look at the company you keep.

Happy well adjusted people cross the street when they see crazy coming.

Water seeks it's own level.

You are attracted to or attract your equal.

Instead of trying to decode her or her behavior or the people she surrounds herself, you need to question why you are part of the mix.

The good news here is you know something stinks and you're asking questions.

But between now and then you are part of this dynamic.

Give that some thought.

 

 

Thanks. I know it works like this. I know everything here is toxic and I am too a victim of it.

 

I've been taken on a rollercoaster emotionally with great attraction followed by great rejection and confusing/controdicting behaviour. The mind searches answers. I really wish I could shrug and walk away and hopefully soon I will.

 

Thanks for your insight.

[MissCanuck]

What made/keeps me invested is that she made me fall in love with her again. And she did it in an extremely powerful way, pushing all my buttons by playing into still existing feelings of trust, safety, loyalty, love, understanding. It's hard to resist especially combined with heavy flirting and sexual innuendo.

 

Much like the way this guy apparently "made" her come back to him somehow?

 

If it worked on you, surely you recognize that it could work on her too. Only catch? You're in love with her and want her to want you, and she's in love with him and wants him to want her.

 

If you truly believe another person can make you can do anything, apply your own logic when you torment yourself wondering why she chose him and not you.

[bluecastle]

Instead of trying to decode her or her behavior or the people she surrounds herself, you need to question why you are part of the mix.

 

This.

 

I've been following this thread, and what jumps out at me is that you may be hyper-focused on her in order to avoid focusing on why you're so hyper-focused on all this. Is it a distraction from life? Do you enjoy the identity of being a "powerful" or "positive" influence in lives of others and hers in particular? Do you think you can "fix" something inside of yourself if you can diagnose what, exactly, is "broken" inside of her? Is it all a scratch to satisfy the ego's itch? A way to avoid being open to deeper, more authentic connections with friends, with potential partners?

 

Those are the sorts of questions I'd be asking in your shoes. Nothing here points to an "abusive" relationship so much as three people (you, her, her sometimes bf) who struggle to let go of dynamics that don't serve them and, as such, fuel dynamics where confusion becomes the chief currency. Deploying loaded terms—abuse, narcissism, borderline, PTSD—risks validating all this as more complex than it is and, as such, gives permission to continue to indulge it all.

 

I don't say any of that to negate the value of your history, or the genuine feelings you have for her well-being, but you seem quite aware—and have been for some time—that your connection with her is not a healthy one. I get how focusing on where her connection with another man might be unhealthy, or more unhealthy, could be a salve, affirming the idea that yours is the purer one, but ultimately that sort of salve is more like a shot of booze than a healthy lifestyle.

[United]

Much like the way this guy apparently "made" her come back to him somehow?

 

If it worked on you, surely you recognize that it could work on her too. Only catch? You're in love with her and want her to want you, and she's in love with him and wants him to want her.

 

If you truly believe another person can make you can do anything, apply your own logic when you torment yourself wondering why she chose him and not you.

 

 

That's a very true observation. I am 100% sure he uses the same pull techniques on her which she used on me.

 

But if she would do to me what she did now, year in year out, and alternated that with destroying my self esteem, denying affection and ignoring my request to just leave me alone if she doesn't like me, and that moment she starts pulling again... I'm sure you would describe her as abusive too.

 

I never in all these years heard her say that she wished he would fight for her more. Only that she's extremely unhappy and she wishes he would stop just chasing her. But he won't let her go.

 

You can always make the case that she secretly wants the opposite. Like you could say to me that I actually enjoy the way she treats me.

 

You can never know, but I agree fully with the mechanism of people pulling each other back in.

 

Thanks MissCanuck.

[United]

This.

 

I've been following this thread, and what jumps out at me is that you may be hyper-focused on her in order to avoid focusing on why you're so hyper-focused on all this. Is it a distraction from life? Do you enjoy the identity of being a "powerful" or "positive" influence in lives of others and hers in particular? Do you think you can "fix" something inside of yourself if you can diagnose what, exactly, is "broken" inside of her? Is it all a scratch to satisfy the ego's itch? A way to avoid being open to deeper, more authentic connections with friends, with potential partners?

 

Those are the sorts of questions I'd be asking in your shoes. Nothing here points to an "abusive" relationship so much as three people (you, her, her sometimes bf) who struggle to let go of dynamics that don't serve them and, as such, fuel dynamics where confusion becomes the chief currency. Deploying loaded terms—abuse, narcissism, borderline, PTSD—risks validating all this as more complex than it is and, as such, gives permission to continue to indulge it all.

 

I don't say any of that to negate the value of your history, or the genuine feelings you have for her well-being, but you seem quite aware—and have been for some time—that your connection with her is not a healthy one. I get how focusing on where her connection with another man might be unhealthy, or more unhealthy, could be a salve, affirming the idea that yours is the purer one, but ultimately that sort of salve is more like a shot of booze than a healthy lifestyle.

 

Thanks bluecastle, these are all very valid questions to ask myself and I realise I need to have good look in the mirror why I'm searching for these answers at all.

 

I must say this thread has helped me a lot already with seeing this from all kinds of different angles and your comment really strikes home too.

 

Thanks for your insight.

[bluecastle]

But if she would do to me what she did now, year in year out, and alternated that with destroying my self esteem, denying affection and ignoring my request to just leave me alone if she doesn't like me, and that moment she starts pulling again... I'm sure you would describe her as abusive too.

 

I never in all these years heard her say that she wished he would fight for her more. Only that she's extremely unhappy and she wishes he would stop just chasing her. But he won't let her go.

 

No, I wouldn't call this abusive. Just petty, immature, ego-centric, and dramatic. Basic, as the kids say, and reminiscent of the high school hallways in which most of us cut our teeth in the business of romance. Putting grand labels on it does not give it more weight, but it does give permission to stay involved in such connections after senior year.

 

As for the wish that he'd stop "chasing" her? That he "won't" let her go. Sorry, but I just don't buy that. Maybe in a cult, but not here. People aren't gods or magnets, but creatures driven by reward. We don't "chase" after carrots without being given something to nibble on, and we can choose to "let go" of anything, including people who have yet to let go of us. That you think she is so susceptible to manipulation and influence is telling, in terms of your regard for her and perhaps your frustrations right now in not being able to exert influence of your own, however positive you genuinely believe it to be.

 

Pocket theory: we starve our spirits when we feed the ego. Have a think about how all this makes you feel—that gutted, edgy feeling, a lot like deep hunger—and then ask yourself what would fill you up, for real.

[boltnrun]

My ex used to complain ALL THE TIME about his so-called ex girlfriend. Yes, she did some crazy stuff such as try to burn his house down, break windows in his house and car, call him constantly and let the phone ring 78 times (I counted), show up at his house, climb in a window and get into bed with him, etc. etc. He claimed she just would not let him go! Except, on nights I wasn't there he let her in, had sex with her and went to see her at her house and workplace. And he would message her. An exact quote: "Wish I was there with you. I'm nothing without you."

 

This is a guy who claimed she was psycho and wouldn't let him go!

 

So, yeah, your ex is full of beans. She could do many things if she really wanted to get rid of him.

 

My ex once complained to me that I never did any of the things that other woman did, so I must not really love him. Your ex probably sees herself as this irresistible amazing woman who has two men so totally in love with her they'll do anything just to be with her!

 

You just need to recognize this fact; she doesn't really want him gone because she loves the attention.

[United]

My ex used to complain ALL THE TIME about his so-called ex girlfriend. Yes, she did some crazy stuff such as try to burn his house down, break windows in his house and car, call him constantly and let the phone ring 78 times (I counted), show up at his house, climb in a window and get into bed with him, etc. etc. He claimed she just would not let him go! Except, on nights I wasn't there he let her in, had sex with her and went to see her at her house and workplace. And he would message her. An exact quote: "Wish I was there with you. I'm nothing without you."

 

This is a guy who claimed she was psycho and wouldn't let him go!

 

So, yeah, your ex is full of beans. She could do many things if she really wanted to get rid of him.

 

My ex once complained to me that I never did any of the things that other woman did, so I must not really love him. Your ex probably sees herself as this irresistible amazing woman who has two men so totally in love with her they'll do anything just to be with her!

 

You just need to recognize this fact; she doesn't really want him gone because she loves the attention.

 

 

Hi bolnrun, thanks for your insight.

 

I agree with you (and bluecastle I the post above yours) that her ex would not continue to chase her unless there is some reward given at some point. Just like the psycho ex of your ex would KNOW eventually he would let her in and have sex with her. The ex of my ex clearly also knows that when she says to leave her alone, he can take it with a grain of salt because eventually she will let him in again anyway.

 

However, I don't think you would call the relationship dynamic between your ex and his ex healthy?

[boltnrun]

Hi bolnrun, thanks for your insight.

 

I agree with you (and bluecastle I the post above yours) that her ex would not continue to chase her unless there is some reward given at some point. Just like the psycho ex of your ex would KNOW eventually he would let her in and have sex with her. The ex of my ex clearly also knows that when she says to leave her alone, he can take it with a grain of salt because eventually she will let him in again anyway.

 

However, I don't think you would call the relationship dynamic between your ex and his ex healthy?

 

I didn't call their relationship dynamic healthy. It's not. But it's also not something I concern myself with. My relationship with him has been over for a long time. If he somehow got ahold of me trying to come back I would not be the slightest bit interested. And I do not feel any desire to "save" him.

[bluecastle]

However, I don't think you would call the relationship dynamic between your ex and his ex healthy?

 

Again, this urge to diagnose. Why?

 

People across the world, for thousands of years, have gotten into weird little dynamics like this in romance: half wanting it over, half not, motivated primarily by some basic human stuff (need for attention, fear of being alone) than the stuff that serves their full spectrum. Think of someone who wants to get fit or lose weight, but instead of doing the workout they hit up the pasta buffet or sink into the couch for six episodes on Netflix. Not so mysterious: working out can be a drag, or intimidating, and pasta and TV offer an immediate hit of comfort and distraction. This is that, more or less, playing out in a psycho-sexual-emotional paradigm.

 

She'll figure it all out, in some form or another, on her own timeline. What I think you could stand to let go of, and explore, is why you want to play a key role in all that figuring it out. What's that getting you? There are no wrong answers to that question, and asking it is not about punishing yourself, but simply understanding it all a bit better. Leech the mystery from it through clarity, and the magnetism of it fades. Pasta is delicious, Netflix is pleasantly numbing, romantic drama is [fill in the blank].

[United]

Again, this urge to diagnose. Why?

 

People across the world, for thousands of years, have gotten into weird little dynamics like this in romance: half wanting it over, half not, motivated primarily by some basic human stuff (need for attention, fear of being alone) than the stuff that serves their full spectrum. Think of someone who wants to get fit or lose weight, but instead of doing the workout they hit up the pasta buffet or sink into the couch for six episodes on Netflix. Not so mysterious: working out can be a drag, or intimidating, and pasta and TV offer an immediate hit of comfort and distraction. This is that, more or less, playing out in a psycho-sexual-emotional paradigm.

 

She'll figure it all out, in some form or another, on her own timeline. What I think you could stand to let go of, and explore, is why you want to play a key role in all that figuring it out. What's that getting you? There are no wrong answers to that question, and asking it is not about punishing yourself, but simply understanding it all a bit better. Leech the mystery from it through clarity, and the magnetism of it fades. Pasta is delicious, Netflix is pleasantly numbing, romantic drama is [fill in the blank].

 

Hi blue castle, you are absolutely right. And I know for a fact that there is only one way to go and that is to turn around and not bother myself with the how's and if's and move on with my life etc.

 

The part that you quoted however was in reply of the example of someone else's ex, stating that this dynamic happens all the time. I wanted to point out that because something happens all the time doesn't mean it's normal or healthy, that's all.

 

However, in my case, in a short period of time, I've been exposed to completely opposite emotions and behaviours in a very chaotic context where all kinds of feelings are involved, and where a lot of lying and deceiving have been going on. There's a lot of details I can not write down here for the sake of anonymity. It is human nature to try to understand why things happen the way they happen, especially when all logic seem to have disappeared. Again I would have to get into too much detail to explain that There are many possible scenarios here and I know I will never know the complete truth. One scenario that I actually like to rule out instead of trying to convince myself off is that her constantly returning to that relationship might not be as voluntarily as it looks. I know her. I know she her history and I know it's likely to happen again and again for certain people. His behaviour does fit a profile, that of someone who is as least pretty manipulative. The beauty of the internet is that you can ask for opinions from lots of random people around the world and see what they think. All the feedback I got here helped me tremendously, including yours. It gave me all kinds of perspective. Maybe this is my way of checking if I didn't overlook something and then finding closure.

 

There's no need to get into another meta analysis about WHY I want to ask a few people on a forum to see what they think. Again, sometimes it's human nature to want to know how something can completely derail and escalate in a matter of hours and rule some scenarios out.

 

Bottom line is you are absolutely right and I thank you for your insight :)

[boltnrun]

Just for the record, I didn't say that dynamic happened all the time. I said my ex complained about HIS ex all the time.

[United]

Just for the record, I didn't say that dynamic happened all the time. I said my ex complained about HIS ex all the time.

 

I'm sorry, you are right. I did not phrase that correctly.

[DancingFool]

Do you want to marry her and have kids with her?

[United]

I would like to add something for the people following this thread:

 

My initial reaction after all that happened was in fact: Ok whatever. And I did first shrug my shoulders, shook my head, rolled my eyes and then wished her good luck with the rest of her life. It was after talking to some (female) friends about what happened, and them started to point out some indicators of things possibly not being completely right here. Combined with her history of previous abuse, her comments about him always either turning completely cold or love bombing her, him controlling her financially, ignoring every breakup by acting as if nothing happened, coming inside her house uninvited when she's not home to check on her etc. That made me go "Hmmm could it be? Naaaah" And then realising that a lot of abuse continues because of outsiders thinking: "Hmmm could it be? Naaaah".

 

After the "Naaaaaah" I decided to put the question up here for some crowd knowledge. And the majority response I got is indeed: "Naaaaaaah..." :)

 

An ex boyfriend showing up unannounced with a bouquet of flowers at the parking lot of your workplace after you've broken up.

An ex boyfriend leaving notes inside your house while you're at work.

An ex boyfriend ignoring that you broke up with them and keeps acting like nothing happened.

 

Some might say 'how romantic' some might say 'that's stalking'. Same thing.

[United]

Do you want to marry her and have kids with her?

 

That feels a bit like a trick question ;)

 

My honest answer: I did at some point but after this debacle I'm not sure anymore. Probably not. As I don't think you can ever come back from something like this. She destroyed whatever trust or respect that was left between us. Very hurtful things have been said, very nasty insults have been made. (By her, not by me). They were extremely hurtful but at the same time they were SO over the top and far fetched that it almost didn't feel real anymore. That it wasn't about me or us anymore. Like she was dissociating and replaying something else in her head. That's what makes all this so strange.

[Wiseman2]

You seem to want academics, semantics, surveys, etc for situations that are far to complex. So is it about defining abuse, stalking or this exgf/friend?

It was after talking to some (female) friends about what happened

[bluecastle]

Reading a bit between the lines here, and going out on a limb a bit, my sense here is that somewhere deep down you feel "bad" about something between you two. Maybe how you were when you were together, maybe how the breakup went, I don't know.

 

But some strand of guilt or shame is there—common stuff in the wake of relationships. However, perhaps instead of just working through it—forgiving whatever happened, moving forward—you've gone a bit into atonement mode, wanting, consciously or not, to right those past wrongs, to fix yourself through her. Through "being there" as a friend. Through "being there" through this relationship of hers. Through "being there" in potentially getting back together.

 

Rarely works that way, best I've seen. The old knot keeps getting tightened, turned into new knots, and the guilt/shame stuff becomes a kind of glue rather than something that fades away and reforms into something healthy. Just riffing, again, and I could be totally wrong. But you may find that the thing you've been looking for—with, and through, her—is something you're going to find when you genuinely let this whole thing go for a good bit, perhaps even the forever bit.

[United]

What are their credentials? You seem to want academics.

 

One's a clinical social worker by profession and the other has been in a toxic relationship dynamic herself.