GENERAL QUESTION, WHAT CAN BE FORGIVEN and WHAT IS UNFORGIVABLE

[Mets6986]

Yes I agree I am just reflective this week because it is one year ago I said goodbye forever to her. I am now more aware of things. I truly believe that God put her in my life for a season and a reason. Being Forgiven by those that  I hurt is a blessing Being forgiven by my wife is a blessing. As for the friend wanting to be friends with me again I will never understand Forgiveness? Okay But friendship? After how I acted? Maybe by leaving her alone she saw me grow back into the friend I was but at the same time I was also blessed to say No and I still feel that not going back into a friendship with her was the right thing to do.

[Cherylyn]

You don't have to completely understand forgiveness.  Just try to understand human nature which is universal. 

Regarding friendship, even friendship is "too much" and some people just want a clean break ~ completely and permanently.  Many people don't wish to be half way in and half way out.  It's all or nothing which are strong, enforced boundaries.

I've tried to be friends with people after a falling out to no avail.  Trust isn't completely there anymore.  When I say, "trust," I mean that I don't trust people after they've demonstrated their true, real characters to me.  I fear getting hurt again and in order to guarantee my safety, protection and 100% security,  I avoid them as if they've contracted COVID-19.  I'm gone.  I want certain people to remain far, faraway from me PERMANENTLY.  In my mind, I say, "Do not bother me."   

Don't beat yourself up over this, Mets6986.  You can't undo the past.  All you can do is learn from your past mistakes and missteps and change for the better in the future.   Don't keep rehashing the past.  She is trying to move on as should you albeit separately. 

Don't psychoanalyze her nor play guessing games of what if?  Whenever people ignore you, get their message loud and clear.  Their message is:  "Go away and stay away.  Don't bother me."  Mature, be grown up and accept this.  You may not have to like it but you have to accept, honor and respect other people's wishes because that's life.

[Lambert]

Sometimes forgiveness is not even part of the equation. The other person may not feel any thing towards you, feel no need to forgive. 

Rather it's so clear that you do not connect or understand each other's needs etc they just don't want to be bothered. 

They might not be mad.  They just don't want anything to do with you. And that's their right.  No one owes anyone. If you try your very best and do  everything "right" you still might my find yourself the odd man out. 

 

 

[Mets6986]

I appreciate your responses and you are correct but I think you misunderstood It was not I who wanted to resume the friendship. It was her and while I was happy she forgave me I just thought it was for the best to make a clean break when I left the job last year. It’s funny when I was in that obsessive state when I first started this post almost 2 yrs ago I was so desperate to save the friendships but then after hitting or almost hitting bottom and doing my best to learn and grow and change I said NO when that same friendship was offered back to me and what made it easy for me to say No was love. Love for myself Love for my wife and love for my former friend if that makes any sense

[Cherylyn]

59 minutes ago, Mets6986 said:

I appreciate your responses and you are correct but I think you misunderstood It was not I who wanted to resume the friendship. It was her and while I was happy she forgave me I just thought it was for the best to make a clean break when I left the job last year. It’s funny when I was in that obsessive state when I first started this post almost 2 yrs ago I was so desperate to save the friendships but then after hitting or almost hitting bottom and doing my best to learn and grow and change I said NO when that same friendship was offered back to me and what made it easy for me to say No was love. Love for myself Love for my wife and love for my former friend if that makes any sense

I appreciate your clarifying.  I've been in similar situations as yours.  Granted, our stories are not the same but I understand how you feel.  I too, wanted a clean break. 

Once dynamics change for whatever reason, it's extremely difficult if not impossible to revert and resume to how the relationship was prior to the fallout.  Something is lost.  I too, have said "NO" even if if was to myself regarding picking up right where we left off. 

In my case, some people are still in my sphere even though I don't see them frequently.  While I'm polite and peaceful, I can't give anymore of myself than that.  In other words, I maintain a safe distance which is my way of enforcing healthy boundaries and protecting myself from potential, future harm.

[Mets6986]

One of the reasons I did not want to resume the frienship (my wife divorcing me being the main one of course) is that I did not want to stray off the path of learning from my mistakes and growing 

[Cherylyn]

1 hour ago, Mets6986 said:

One of the reasons I did not want to resume the frienship (my wife divorcing me being the main one of course) is that I did not want to stray off the path of learning from my mistakes and growing 

Sounds good.

[Wiseman2]

Are you, your wife and this friend from the same church/religion?

Are they as involved in your faith as you are? Do they understand things with all the religious meanings and terminology,?

Just advise your friend plain and simple to stay away from affairs if he doesn't want problems.

[Mets6986]

He (the friend is a member of my wife's brothers church and Yes that is good advice.

 

 

[Mets6986]

One year ago today was my last day on the job. Nothing was said between my former friend and I for two reasons I knew that a lot of people I worked with over the years would want to say goodbye to me and I wanted it to be a a light hearted day with smiles and laughter (What I was not prepared for is that they threw me a going away party which was very nice) As for my former firend at the end of the shift I said something corny (I tried to keep it funny because if I did not I felt like I was going to cry) I said When you have a book signing when you write your book I am going to come. She laughed a bit and we just hugged and turned and walked both literally and fiiguratively out of each other's lives forever. After she left I still had another shift. When I was leaving that shift I was saying goodbye to one of two friends I had confided in, He asked me about her I said I am just glad it ended okay. I told him I loved her and he said I know you did. To this day I do not know what was happened as to how this young lady who was young enough to be my daughter got into my soull and my heart. All I know is that I will always believe that God put her in my life. I don't like to talk about my marriage because then it looks like I am blaming my wife for things I did and if I do that I can't learn from my mistakes and grow. All I know is my wife and I had grown apart stopped having sex for 7 years and she could sometimes be emotionally abusiive like telling me I should die when I go to work or throwing every thing I ever shared back into my face when she was upset. BUT When you did deeper I was the cause of all that because when we bought our house I left her alone every weekedn to go to ball games because at that time I loved a stadium that was being torn down that I loved going to was being torn down and I wanted to go as much as possible, It was wrong of me but at the time I just wanted to go as much as possible I was selfish and wrong so I am to blame for my wife's behavior. This post is getting too long I will continue in next

[Mets6986]

I am not going to rehash the whoile story back when I was obssessed but it got to the point two years ago where I tried to make amends and one day a mutual friend of the girl and I came to me and said that She does not want to but if you do not leave her alone she is going to go to HR. In that moment all my obssesiveness went away and I had no desire. Yes people on this site had warned me and I did not listen. I was so lost and I never saw it coming despite the fact that you guys basically jumped in front of me waving signs, I don't know why but I told my wife everything and after listening it got very ugly I thought my wife and I read her every single letter I wrote the girl I literally thought my marriage was over. Then a miracle happened My wife came to me and told me that she had told her sister that Her being the way she was to me was the cause of what happened with me and my former friend but I said No I need to learn from my mistakes. I agreed to go to therapy and we agreed I would work but I promised not to talk to her again which was very easy to keep because at that time my feeling for her went away because she threatened me with HR. and both my wife and job were on the line. Then a MIRACLE happened I did not just get another chance with my wife, I got my wife back in a way I thought was impossible and would never happen again We fell in love with each other for the first time in years. NEXT THERAPY

[Mets6986]

So I went to Therapy and while in there I came to the realization that if this thing never happened my wife and I may have gone on in a dead marriage or until one of us left. We talked about how I said One day months before she cam to the job I woke up one day and said I can't feel nothing and how my friendship with her started just after my transfer at that time fell through. I truly believe God put her in my life to bless me and made her young enough to protect me to make sure I would not brealk my moral compass) All I know is that when I realized in my mind I loved her actually more than I did when I was in that obssesive state. I mean it is very humbling when you come to believe that God used someone to bless your life, Of course at that time I thought getting my wife back better than ever or getting a taste of what it could be but there was another more humbling blessing  that would come later that can make that make my life with my wife even more loving. Of course just because I now thought of her as God using her to bless me. There was no desire to try and restart the friendship Her time both fun times and bad was done. The only thing was that touch of sadness and appreciation (and it was not like she actually did anything it is just that God put her in my life to bless me and How could I not love her and wish her all the best. I was shocked but haopy she forgave me and I was shocked and scared that she actually wanted to be forends. I mean How in the world did I go to someone you sent a message to tell me that if I don't leave her alone that you are going to HR to someone that you not only forgive BUT want to be friends with? The forgiveness meant a lot to me and I am grateful for whatever I did to receive it but the offer for friendship scared me for many reasons one being that if I had gone down that road I would be undoing the blessing of God putting her in my life. NEXT THE GOODBYE

[Mets6986]

After she forgave me but I turned down her offer of friendship. Things got better as I mentioned in another reply we still left each other alone but the tension was gone. I knew there was a good chance I might get transfered in 2020 I was number 2 but my confidence in that fell when I actually thought it fell to 3. I still thought I would go eventually but I lost hope I was going to go soon. I had debated and talked to my therapist about if when that day comes should I tell my former friend what she meant to me and how she was a blessing to me (without going into and thing how in my marriage of course) and I decided not to that it was just for the best to leave it alone. The only thing I did want to tell her aboiut was about a wonderful book I read called a Conversation with the Devil by Napoloan Hill because I truly believed it could be a blessing in her life (or anyone's) It was the ONLY thing I wanted to talk about with her but I did not know when or if the right moment would come. So one day late last Feb I saw my chance I walked her and asked do you read or listen to books and I told her about the book. I told her I do not care if you listen to this book in your 20's or 40's but I really believe it can bless your life if you do but whether you do or not is up to you. and I left. THE VERY NEXT DAY I got news that the Union wanted to contact me about my transfer and it just hit me like a ton of bricks I have to tell her because my transfer was originally delayed and my friendship with her started very soon after my transfer fell through (within a couple of weeks) and then I get news I am going to get my transfer the day after I tell her about the book. It was like I don't know that our time in each other's life is done. NEXT THE VERY EMOTIONAL GOODBYE

[Mets6986]

Before I begin If my wife knew I did what I am about to share it would end my marriage and I of course would regret it but other than that I have no regrets because as much as I wanted to be as kind and loving to my former friend What I did I also did for myself because I wanted to let go emotionally and basically put things in God's hands so to speak. First I walked up to my former friend and the mutual friend who had given me the message to leave her alone but in her own right helped me grow and mature. I showed then a card I had kept for over 20 years that an ex gf gave me, I told them the reason I kept it is because of one of if not the nicest compliment I ever got a compliment that I do not know if I always lived up to be but have tried. She said in the card. "Please never lose that golden heart that does not shoot arrows" My friend said to me "Your eyes are watering please stop. I said to her I need to get through this and asked if I could continue. She said okay. First I gave her a blank notebook and I told her that you can use this for whatever but I hope u use it to wright that great novel or whatever you wright and that if many years from now I am sitting in a doctor's office for example I will smile and be so happy for you. I said I cannot go into details but there was a time I thought I was to be a blessing in your life only to find discover after I lost you that you were the blessing in mine. The next thing I did was I said this is symbolic but I am not going to be around (I meant of course no longer in her life) So I gave her 3 ribbons two blue one pink. I told her this is for the baby girl you might have some day, This is for the baby boy you might have one day and this is for when you get married in case you need something blue to borrow. I know it is all corny I just wanted her to know that even though I am leaving I will be happy for all the wonderful things that happen for you even though I will never know about it. The final thing I did I mentioned in a previous reply. I had given both my wife and a aunt a pen with their initals and a the first letters of each word of a prayer. My aunt loves those types of things my wife well it's just not her that's all. I said to my former friend, When you sign autographs after your write your best seller. I would be honored if you use this pen. At the top of pen I had inscribed her intitials and the letters MJBYLYAKYA (I am actually not sure if the last A fit or not I do not remember) So she said to me, Well I know the first letters (Her intitials) and I told her the rest of it meant. MAY JESUS BLESS YOU LOVE YOU AND KEEP YOU and then we hugged and I walled away and went to work. For me I was leaving it all in God's hands thorugh his son my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to watch over her and bless her so I could let go in all aspects in grow, That young lady will always have a place in my heart and I know that because he used her to bless my life that he will bless her life,  NEXT THE HUMBLING BUT IMPORTANT BLESSING

[Mets6986]

After she left and I started my job life went one, The falling back in my life blessing was still there but there was still problems. I could never talk about things I did in other comments with my wife. She was convinced I was a lecherous person who just wanted to have sex with her and as I stated previously even though I never looked at my former friend sexually when our friendship first started and even if I  did I would never act on it for two reasons I was married and even if I was single I would have never acted on it because I really cared about her and I knew if I went that route because of our age difference I would hurt her. (Ironically I did hurt her with all my osessiveness) But I do not know somewhere along the line I became attracted to her. I don't know exactly what it was a change of hair style, a hint of breast (She NEVER dressed in a sexual manner bye the way and I mean she did not expose much of herself and when I said a hint of breast I mean exactly that just a small hint caught my eye) It made me feel so gulty because I never feel guilty when I see a young woman looking sexy I never feel guilty about having sexual fantasies about women, But this was different I felt guitly about being sexually attracted to her but on the other hand I wanted to fantasize about her because I knew it was the only way I could ever be with her. I think if I was not married and we were closer in age and I mean a lot lot closer I would have fallen in love with her. But the fact was that the only love I could give her was the love of a good friend, I never ever mentioned this to her or anyone because I was so ashamed. There is a lot of stuff I wont go into but whenever in my life there was a woman I was sexually arracted to but for one reason or another I could not get I would fantasize about them. I would never actually use actual pictures just my imagination or if I found one a porn star who resembled the person. Bye doing this I felt no harm no foul no one if getting hurt. Over the years I would imagine scenarios where in real life nothing of course would happen but in my dreams it would and NO ONE WOULD EVER KNOW AND NO ONE WOULD EVER GET HURT. There was museum exhibit she was going to that was there for a year I asked her one day if she went and she said she had not and I told her well if you do not go bye the time it gets near the end I will take you if you like, Now in retrospect That was a horrible idea and it would just look bad because of our age difference but I just at that time just wanted to please her. Yes I was sexually attracted bye that time but there was no thought of actually having sex with her and OH BYE THE WAY I NEVER THOUGHT SHE WAS SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO ME!! If I had thought that I NEVER WOULD HAVE OFFERED. My friend had asked me once if I thought she might catch feeling for her when I did something nice for her birthday once. I said No I do not There is nothing about me that is attactive to a young girl I mean look at me I get dirty at work and dress like a slob What young girl is going to want that. She likes me just as a friend and that is all. He said Yeah Your right. What I DID HAVE IN MIND though because I did have such strong feelings for her but I could not have her I was trying to figure out a way to meet my Godaughter's brother who is a very nice young man but without making it look like a setup. But it never happened I thought at the time I was doing a good thing but later in thrapy my therapist told me I was just trying to keep her in my life someway, It is like the relative you never see they are not in your life but because their is that tiee of being related you are connected in some way, But even though it never happened  it made for the a good fantasy scenario and it was when I told my wife this because she was demanding I talk about the girl and when I told her all that it made me realize HOW INDEED MY PORN ADDICTION over the years has indeed hurt me. What I thought was harmless because I did not hurt others (In my mind and also I thought helped me because sometimes women in my life my wife included would use sex as a weapon against me and I would use porn to get my needs met because I was so desperate for actual sex I lost myself. I NEVER talk about this and my therapy ended before I left my job and when I was scheduled to go back the place closed due to Corona and I am not comfortable with online therapy. WHat did happen after I told my wife is that it made me realize that I have to break free of my porn addiction,. Now this is something that has been hardiwred and I am the late preacher Miles Monroe says been downloading a lot of bad stuff onto my Hard Drive over the years and I am not saying that I do not fall back. But I am fighting to get rid of this addiction. I pray for God's help in two ways, To take this addiction away from me and if I should fall please make me feel ashamed when I do (and the few times I have fallen to temptation I do. The REASON I feel that this is another way GOD used my former friend to bless me and the reason is I do not think that if she had come into my life and everything that happened and the hurt I caused my wife when I told her about my sexual fantasy I may have continued to continued down that destructive path/ NEXT THANK YOU

[Mets6986]

I have been reflective this week because it has been one year since my former friend I went out separate ways I do not know if there are more blessings but getting the chance to see how wonderful with my life could be like if I continue to grow and waking up to my self destructive porn addiction is enough. I  could NEVER talk to my wife about some of the things I talked about. At least I feel that way right now and that is a lot of fear talking. Maybe in the future although I do not see it now that day will come and I will talk about all those things like the Goodbye ceremony and breaking my promise not to let my former friend know how I felt. But it was something I felt I needed to do. Maybe if that day comes everything will come to an end BUT on the other hand maybe just maybe it is that very shaky bridge that is I survive it just might be the bridge I will have to cross someday to truly find that eutiopia with my wife that I got a glimpse of. WHAT I DO KNOW however is that finally talking about this really felt good and I THANK YOU ALL.