Christian Issue: Half-Fornication

[stevenmakie]

This may be a very hard subject unless you're a Christian.

 

I started a sexual-relationship which lasted over 2 years. The relationship was strong and there is love between us. However due to legislation/laws she had to leave the country after graduation. There was thoughts of marriage, etc but am still doing my studies, and I do not have a secured career for building our foundation of a family.

 

She left and I never seen her again. Both of us really didn't want to separate.

 

Since then I was unguided and didn't know what to do. But I took on my studies seriously and think more towards my future. So around a month ago I became Christian by the Sinner's prayer. I go to the weekly fellowship, bible study and Church. I believe more in Christianity than I used to and studying more.

 

Now my former girl friend has contacted me since we last separated. She's back in this country, different city, and studying her 2nd degree here. She's wanting to see me again and so do I.

 

Main issue: Fornication (sex before marriage).

 

What are the boundaries, and how do you define the act of sex in the meaning of "sex before marriage"? Does it specifically mean sexual intercourse? Does it include heavy petting and cunnilingus (kissing genitals)? Or is it any forms that result in sexual pleasure? And most importantly, the conditions of kissing/snogging a non-believer?

 

 

 

Just to let you know, I been through romancing, love and poetry to women (similar to Cassanova). It's just the way I been brought up and the society I lived in. Assuming you categorise romance as sin, then I have a sinful history and have sin in the past. I stopped this due to the consequences it had of us. I want to forget about all this. However is it wrong to be a romantic guy and think romantic all the time? It has nothing to do with lust (or maybe just a little, but I know the difference between love and lust).

 

I will keep to my belief and do no sexual activites of any kind. However I still believe we can kiss and be romantic. The only problem is as far as I know, romance and Bible doesn't go together very well. The reason being romance usually is related to sensual feelings which in turn is provokes sexual (something I think). I came from a totally different background and became unpure before taking upon Christianity. I'd never be the same again. This weekend.... will be my test of will power, test of how much my belief for my faith is. My journey through two different societies begin.....

 

Anyway, all I can say is that we'll have to wait til after this weekend. I'll post what I been through, how I felt. I do not intend to have sex. But I don't see anything wrong to sleep in the same bed, to cuddle, big warm hug, kiss, kiss on neck, kiss on hands, being a gentleman, take her on dinners, flirt with her, wink, check her out, smack her bottom? erm,... dunno.. no sex there eh?

 

I am paying £250 on costs, hotel, travel for one night just to see her. I love her and just want to be with her (we have a very strong love history). This is not lust. I don't think about the sex, just the love. If she still loves me, she'll have to prove that on the night. Is it lust or love for her too?

 

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[cleverme123]

Depends on what church you go to, how deep in the religion you believe in, how seriously you take the whole getting saved thing.

 

Sex before marriage generally means no touching, kissing, making out, oral sex, sex in general, thoughts of sex with her, touching in a way that would lead to sex. It depends on what you believe, what you want, what she believes. I can tell you this, if she don't know about your new found religion, then it won't work, spiritually you both have to be in the same place, and you can't try to convince her to do your religion.

 

Make sense? My gut feeling is she knows nothing about this.

[Day_Walker]

Biblically the reference fornication is made to mean sexual intercourse. That doesnt have to be limited to vaginal penetration. Now what you are doing is trying to look for loop holes in the contract, this is where things can get technical because people want to look for ways around this issue. I dont believe its the intent of Chrisitianity for this to happen, technically since you have already thought of the idea of having sex with your ex gf, is a sin so the act isnt important, its also about your thoughts.

 

Christians come to terms with their sexuality even though the two words seem to not go together. The simple fact is that you are going to sin whether its an act or a thought. Every person has to come to terms with it for themself.

 

One thing thats also not commonly known is that when sodomy is mientioned in the bible it is also a reference to oral sex not just anal sex.

[Beec]

The other posters are right in saying waht most churches believe. If you want to know your church's position, you need to ask or look for it. But you might also seek to understand the theology, the reasoning, why the church says what it does. Then make your decisions.

 

I know of few church's that have an issue with kissing, but anything else is normally not supposed to happen.

[stevenmakie]

Thanks for your tips and advice. I like to say that I have no intention of sexual intercourse as this is what I've been taught when I was small of fornication.

 

However, I do intend to see her. I thought kissing was ok as kissing is not sex. However due to my past, am curious whether this is restricted to kissing on lips only, etc. The reason why I say this is because all the Christian couples I've see, and some I know kiss. Just not too much in public.

 

But I get the point about even sex thoughts is sin. Due to my history it's hard to forget. So I guess there's a difference between remembering about Sin, and thinking of intending to do Sin. Am sorry if this appears to be looking for loop holes, etc. It's just that since the contact from a previous love, it has flooded back memories, some feelings, etc. I know good Christians couples never go too intimate as this may lead to fornication, and some are so clean. I'll never be a pure.

 

Lets just see how much will power I have. Or belief. Upon meeting her, what do I think will happen. I have been told that it's ok to have sexual desires as it's nature of man. But I believe I got enough will to prevent fornication. The only main issue left is, going out with a non-believer....

[mattj]

i used to be a very conservative catholic, but i have kind of fallen away from that- in my opinion if you are considering marrying anyway what is wrong with sex before marriage? oh yes and as a thought the whole sexuality bit in the bible (including homosexuality etc) is located just next to a bit prohibiting the eating of shellish, and the wearing of cotton jackets- so take that as you will

[ShySoul]

The Bible is meant as a guide and is filled with metaphors, not everything is literal.

 

Personally, I think the whole Christian concept of love and fornication is meant to perserve the sacredness of true love, romance, and sex. Sex is the most private, intimate act you can have. It is a melding of two people becoming one on all levels... emotional, spirutal, and physical. That ties into the concept of what marriage is as well.

 

I agree with no sex before marriage, of any kind. But I can't see kissing as being a sin, so long as it isn't anything inappropriate. Thoughts are also not anything to be worried about. If so then we would all be going to hell. I think the main thing is to know the difference between feeling something and acting upon it. No one should be expected to never even think of these things. That is going to far. But we need to watch out actions. As long as we realize how important love and sex are, how sacred, and do our best to follow these vaules, we are doing what is right.

[someguy69]

Umm... please point out to me in the Bible where Jesus condemns fornication.

Thanks

[PAdreamer]

Well... If we're talking technicalities, anything sexual (ie touching, making out, sex) is considered fornication. However, every person makes their own decisions. It's between you and God.

[stevenmakie]

Just like to say that I don't think I can really pull this off. Earlier on the week I imagined I could just hang out with my former GF without anything sexual. But as the days gone by getting closer to the date of meeting I find myself falling back to how I felt last year. The feelings are coming back and coming on quite strong. I never realised feelings can be like this.

 

I just can't stop phoning her and listening to her voice. And today she said, "..remember to bring protection". I was like.."woah.." and my little friend going bezerk!

 

So to all those who thought otherwise to my earlier postings, you're gonna be right! No way am I gonna pull this crazy stunt/plan off.

 

Hmm... boy my society is not going to be pleased.

 

Am sorry to all you people.

 

PS: Is Songs of Solomon == Song of Songs in the Bible?

[shorty20]

It's a hard struggle to keep your feelings controlled. If i read right, you had already had sex with this girl before you became a Christian. This is going to be a very hard task not to do that anymore, if you are serious about remaining a christian and following those beliefs. I grew up in a christian home, and have been taught those ways for my whole life. I know that it is a sin to touch each other in any way that may lead to sex. It's a sin to turn each other on purposfully, whether it heavy petting or anything else. Kissing is ok, but you need to be carefull not to let your feelings take over... just keep a clear head. On another note, the bible also says that believers should not be un-equally yolked... meaning that if you are a christian you shouldn't be with a non-christian, especially when it comes to marriage. I think that the best thing you can do is pray about it... God always answeres...

[prozack12]

Actually as a christiain you shouldn't want to fornicate. plus you MUST love God the absolute most. Even more then that girl. Mathew 10:37 states; He who loves his father or mother more then me is not worthy of me. He who loves his son or daughter more then me is not worthy of me.

Another thing I want to bring up is ...umm....it absolutely DOES NOT matter what church you go too. One church ma say it's ok becasue they jsut want to do it! It doesn't change God's will, laws, or authority. Some churches may even think homosexuality is alright. By the way if anyone on here is homosexual do not argue with me about it being right or wrong becasue It won't take much for me to make you loose faith in your way. Jesus will be the one your arguing with becasue i'll be using the Bible lol plus your not born with it it's a choice! because I used to be Gay...so please don't try lol.

Don't think I'm a jerk though...put it doesn't matter what you want. I knwo it's hard but it's what Gog wants. Your sexual deisres are absolutely the opposite of what God told you he wants from you. Plus you going out with someone who isn't christian is not a sin. BUT it's also un evenly youling yourself which means that your with someoen you can't fully enjoy God with like a relationship is supoosed to be. If she causes you to sin the obviously it doesn't take much to know that she should go look for someoen else. I've gotten rid of my girl friend because she couldn't accept that what God sais is what will be done.

Obviously four play is fornication....do not try to find loop holes because God said that anything that leads to sexual arousal is fornication sorry bud but calm your homrones. Read up on matthew when Jesus speaks about adultory and fornication.

 

THE BOTTOM LINE

If she honestly loves you...and you honestly love her...you would want to save that for when your married. If she can't keep hands off then she's a waste of time and A HUGE danger lol. becuase sexual immorality curses a man's flesh lol. the only sin that does. But it's up to you if you want to take this lightly and smash God's name into the mud. Plus if anyone finds out your christian and you do things like that...It's very possible they'll think that God's a joke if he isn't worth keeping the faith! And they'll burn in hell for all eternity because of your slip up! That not something good to have on your conciounce. I've only been christian for 7 months now and I've put God first.....Like Peter sais in the bible...you should analise yourself...because thats not what christ would approve. God bless you though.

[waveseer]

What does god want for you?

[Luke Skywalker]

If you marry her before you have sex then you are not fornicating.

[hiphop3]

from what i was taught in my christian school and church, you shouldn't do 'any thing you wouldn't do in front of your parents.' yikes. i personally am no longer a christian any more, but i do believe that the christian God would not want you doing any thing physical that translates into lust. so pretty much any thing.

[Bartok]

People really need to look at what the Bible actually says, rather than completely believing what their church/parents/friends tell them the Bible says.

[hiphop3]

People really need to look at what the Bible actually says, rather than completely believing what their church/parents/friends tell them the Bible says.

 

i think it would be a dangerous and bad idea to take the bible literally, i think it's about personal interpretation but not to the point where it's completely self serving.

[Bartok]

i think it would be a dangerous and bad idea to take the bible literally' date=' i think it's about personal interpretation but not to the point where it's completely self serving.[/quote']

Oh, I agree. I just hate seeing all this "my church says this" and "my parents say that" crap. Decide for yourself.

[Tayloranderson]

One thing to remember is that although it is human nature for people to think sexually, it is not a license to do it and not care. Jesus says that thinking about a person sexually is committing adultery with that person in his/her heart, so having an attitude that "I am a man so I'm going to do it anyways" isn't the best one...however, we are all imperfect and are going to fall, just try harder every time to control your thoughts. God isn't going to send you to hell for slipping, but you can't have an "I-don't-care" attitude (not saying you are, just helping you out in future). Also, being romantic is not sexual sin at all unless you make it sexual. I think it is ridiculous when Christians think that they can not fall in love and be attracted to who they are dating or courting (that usually comes with ideas on courting....btw, don't let anyone tell you that courting is the only way to go...only do it if that is what God wants you to do). As for kissing, I do not believe that that is a sin, at least it is not my conviction. If God is showing you that it doesn't feel right, then don't do it. Maybe since you are a new believer you should focus less on that because you may be weaker to temptation (although no matter how long you have been Christian, you are still weak to temptation). As for everyone saying what the church is saying...many churches have it wrong and are legalistic....read your Bible, pray...see what God says, not what man says. I do think that going beyond kissing can be sexual sin, although I am looking into that myself. And I think you said something about how good Christian couples don't fall into sexual sin or something...not true. They shouldn't, but many do (myself included....although I do not have sex, but what God is dealing with me is not the best, and hey, it shows that we all are imperfect)...something you will learn in your walk with Christ is that so many Christians are fake and put on a perfect face, when it is far from the truth. You may get disappointed, I have, but keeping looking towards Christ, not religion or when people say "thus sayeth the Lord" about something that isn't even in the Bible...always check your Bible, look at the interpretation, why it was written...and someone also mentioned something about shellfish and wearing something I can't remember, that is in the Old Testament, we are under a new law and the New Testament specifically talks about not worrying about what you eat anymore...if that girl was desiring sex then you should tell her straight up what you are doing and don't put yourself in that situation (I think this post is old and you already dealt with all this, just use it for future reference...) It is very very hard to resist sexual temptation when you put yourself in easy situations for it...that is why I am struggling with my fiance...if you do slip, get back up, God has new mercies for us everyday....I'll be praying for you. Hope this helps.

[Snny]

Umm... please point out to me in the Bible where Jesus condemns fornication.

Thanks

The moral laws are mostly written from the Old Testament, not the New. Christians follow both testaments.

 

OP, these are excellent questions to be answered by a Pastor. I would recommend consulting with the one from your church.

[Lucidity]

To the OP:

 

 

I am a Christian, and I do not follow the bible from a literal perspective. Instead, I look at the "meat and potatoes" of our existence as it applies to our purpose here on earth. Regardless of whether someone believes in creation or not, the fact remains that we have a male and a female of our species that have certain body parts that are required to be joined together in order for us to procreate, be fruitful and multiply. The rituals, pomp and circumstance of how that is suppose to come about varies widely, and is highly subjective as determined by the number of races, cultures and religions that exist.

 

If you are going to adhere to the teachings of your particular faith, then do not punish yourself for past deeds that you can no longer do anything about. Christianity is about forgiveness and Love for your fellow man. There are many translations/interpretations of the bible that exists; as is shown by the differing denominations throughout all of Christianity. Dont get too hung up on sex, as it is a normal part of a loving and committed relationship, just dont let yourself get caught up in what society deems appropriate or inappropriate. And, as others have pointed out, seek out your clergy and ask him/her these questions as you grow in your faith, not a bunch of anonymous strangers on an internet forum who have no vested interest in your personal happiness.

[greywolf]

Thread closed.