How to proceed after two good dates with a girl?

[katrina1980]

OP, omg to me it is so obvious what happened.

 

You had a magical fourth date, you felt it, she felt it! She was all over you, touching, kissing, etc.

 

It was obvious you both wanted sex. Or at least thinking about it, so she told you she was on her period, sex would not be happening.

 

You were cool with that, but then suggested she come back to yours to spend more time, NO sex. You couldn't anyway, she was on her period.

 

She was open to your suggestion, wanted to as well but had to go home first to pack some things.

 

This is where it all went downhill.

 

She called you after arriving home saying she couldn't make it, she had to help her sister. Bingo!

 

Clearly, she talked to her sister about your date and what you suggested about spending the night, no sex.

 

It sounds like her sister, not knowing you and looking at it objectively, fed her some BS about you being some sort of "player" only looking for sex. She may have called a few friends as well for advice and they told her same.

 

Even some posters here, who have read the entire story, assumed your reason for inviting her back to yours was for sex, even when you explained otherwise.

 

Women can be very protective of each other, especially sisters! And good friends. Her sister may have had some bad experiences with men who invited her back to theirs, with the promise of no sex, then proceeded to try to convince her to have sex!

 

So she, her sister, did not trust your motives and in turn convinced her sister (your date) to not trust your motives either.

 

This is why she has gone cold in my opinion. I could be wrong, but knowing how protective family can be, to me it's obvious.

 

For now do nothing, do not push it. Let this simmer down, hopefully your date will contact you soon, if not wait a few days and reach out again.

 

You did nothing wrong, I just think she got scared as things were escalating very quickly. Perhaps too quickly for her, so she's pulled back a bit to regain her balance.

[bbogdanov]

I would politely ask figureitout23 to not comment on the topic anymore, I feel you are not helping me at all. I think that you don't read/understand what I am saying, you insist on me having some commitment issues, you keep imagining some stereotypes about me and think that you know exactly what the situation is (like you're some expert with unshakeable opinion) which is just confusing me additionally. Thank you, but I can manage it without those attacks and BS thrown at me (and I believe you get snappy at me for not accepting what you're saying, you sound bitter). Lastly - please, don't call me "dude", that sounds like some insult to me, thanks!

 

Wiseman2 - Why would be my problem what her perception of me is? I am presenting myself in an honest way. I hadn't prepared myself beforehand for inviting her at home, I hadn't had some agenda. I just enjoyed the moment and thought it would be a nice idea. I am almost 100% sure that another girl could've been happy with that invitation of mine. Which makes me wonder if I have to "adjust" my behaviour according to the girl I am with or I just have to be myself?? Would the former guarantee me that girls will not "avoid" me??

 

katrina1980 - you've got a good point with that thinking. I was also thinking that her sister or some friend had an influence and she made the decision to not come at my place. I really said hundreds of times that sex was out of the picture, I wanted an emotional experience and connection.

 

Never mind, what happened afterwards:

 

We texted back and forth on Monday and she was cold toward me. When confronted about the situation, she admitted being scared and didn't feel it was time for me inviting her home, the things "happen too quickly". Which is total BS because she was the one making everything happen quickly, calling me every day, arranging dates every other day etc. We met 4 times for a single week! How is that not quick and why would suddenly inviting her home make things "happen quickly"?? I guess it is just convenient for her to throw out this excuse, it is like some double standards or not?

 

Nevertheless, I really felt disappointed a little bit. First, she didn't have the courage and openness to tell me that evening that she doesn't feel ready for coming home, plain and simple. I would accept it, of course, and everything would be fine. I have no problem with that, but I hate being lied to. I know she's a woman and many of the stereotypes are that women prefer making some excuses (not to say "lying"), don't want to provoke confrontation, don't want to face the eventual consequences of the man getting angry and so on. With other words - better say some white lie than face the storm or whatever can follow from being honest. But I would really prefer being told the truth, hundred times out of hundred! I appreciate honesty and if men and women should be equal, why would that differ? Second, I texted her on the next evening about going out and she purposefully didn't open the message which is some sort of avoidance. Me not like it, definitely, what sort of games are that? Third, the day after that (Sunday), I tried calling her (as I told you) and she didn't pick up. When she texted me later that day, she said she'd been asleep and didn't hear it, which is another lie (she'd been online at that time). I guess I just have to get used to lies (should I?)... I apologized for making her feel pressured as I didn't know that was the case. She too apologized for any inconvenience and we agreed (with not so much enthusiasm) to talk about going out on the next day (Tuesday).

 

She texted me on Tuesday to see how it's going on. We did some small talk and she apologized we couldn't meet that day because of her lectures at the university but promised to find time for a date. I said that we've got all the time in the world and I was not in a hurry so everything's fine. She then thanked me for the comprehension and told me that I'm great (haha). Now, while I want to meet her again, I can definitely say that it's not the same anymore. I now feel a little bit less enthusiastic. Is it normal? Do I pay too much attention to her lies and are they lies at all? Is this justifiable?

[Wiseman2]

She told you the truth that you were too hasty and forward and now she's backing away. Eventually she'll fade and leave because you don't want to believe the truth and feel entitled to however fast your horniness drives you regardless of what your dates think.

We texted back and forth on Monday and she was cold toward me. When confronted about the situation, she admitted being scared and didn't feel it was time for me inviting her home, the things "happen too quickly". She texted me on Tuesday to see how it's going on. We did some small talk and she apologized we couldn't meet that day because of her lectures at the university but promised to find time for a date.

[katrina1980]

^^i don't think that's a fair representation Wiseman.

 

OP said she was literally all over him on their last date. Announced she had her period, which suggests she was thinking about sex and letting him know they couldn't that night.

 

He has stated numerous times that is NOT why he invited her back. He simply wanted to continue their magical evening and SHE agreed! Then took it back later which is certainly her prerogative.

 

He seems like a really good guy! Not some a-hole with a hidden agenda ruled by his "horniness." I respect your opinion (as always) but I'm just not getting that from him.

 

OP, I am sorry for this turn of events and yes it is completely normal that you're feeling a bit ambivalent now. I would think it odd if you weren't feeling that way!

 

I say pull way back, and let it play out. Stop texting, stop apologizing.

 

I do think she's scared (like she admitted) so hopefully some space will get things back on track.

 

If not, then she's just not the right fit and you move on, you have done all you could.

 

Again, I am sorry this one did seem promising.

[bbogdanov]

She told you the truth that you were too hasty and forward and now she's backing away. Eventually she'll fade and leave because you don't want to believe the truth and feel entitled to however fast your horniness drives you regardless of what your dates think.

 

I can't believe that I said it hundreds of times and there are still people here that refuse to read/comprehend what I am saying...

 

"hasty and forward" - no need to explain that, read my posts in the topic again about who's in a hurry and who's not (hint: a girl asking me on dates and calling every evening, introducing me to friends and family, behaving like we've been a couple for years when we know each other for less than a week maybe points at her, but if you insist...)

"entitled" - the only thing I feel entitled to is the truth, the plain TRUTH; not some BS excuses, not some hide-and-seek game or whatever...

"she'll fade and leave" - let her be, she is free to do whatever she wants to

"your horniness drives you" - I guess katrina1980 is the only person here that has read and really understood what I've explained (another hint: horniness was out of the picture when I invited her home)

[bbogdanov]

^^i don't think that's a fair representation Wiseman.

 

OP said she was literally all over him on their last date. Announced she had her period, which suggests she was thinking about sex and letting him know they couldn't that night.

 

He has stated numerous times that is NOT why he invited her back. He simply wanted to continue their magical evening and SHE agreed! Then took it back later which is certainly her prerogative.

 

He seems like a really good guy! Not some a-hole with a hidden agenda ruled by his "horniness." I respect your opinion (as always) but I'm just not getting that from him.

 

OP, I am sorry for this turn of events and yes it is completely normal that you're feeling a bit ambivalent now. I would think it odd if you weren't feeling that way!

 

I say pull way back, and let it play out. Stop texting, stop apologizing.

 

I do think she's scared (like she admitted) so hopefully some space will get things back on track.

 

If not, then she's just not the right fit and you move on, you have done all you could.

 

Again, I am sorry this one did seem promising.

 

It really seemed she was all over me on our last date. I've never had somebody lick and suck out the inside of my ear (I guess my ex-gfs were not so kinky...). Biting my arms and legs was not so unconventional but the people watching us (while at the picnic) behave like infatuated teenagers may have considered it an interesting thing. She did tell me that she was still on her period (literally "I hope in couple of days my abdomen stops hurting ; )" ) and she said it BEFORE me inviting her home for the evening (that's why I told her explicitly that I knew what the situation is and nevertheless I would enjoy her company without having sex). Just like that, out of the blue. Which is not a new thing. On the second date, while we were eating pizza, she said she is very hungry recently because of "that period of the month" (literally) so even back then I acknowledged I understand what she is trying to tell me. On the third date, again, she told me her abdomen still hurts and usually it last for a week or so (again out of the blue, I usually don't discuss women's periods...). This time I didn't say anything, we just continued conversation with some other topics. So, I guess, a girl telling me on THREE consecutive dates that she can't have sex at the moment points to her wanting it at least a little bit. Or maybe I am just clueless and she likes to discuss her cycle with dates, who knows...

 

This one really seemed promising, I haven't experienced such thing for a loooong time. But...

[Wiseman2]

Why did she say this and cancel then cool off, if you two were on the same page with it?

she admitted being scared and didn't feel it was time for me inviting her home, the things "happen too quickly".

[katrina1980]

Why did she say this and cancel then cool off, if you two were on the same page with it?

 

She changed her mind after she got home Wiseman, it happens. Probably started over-thinking it, not uncommon in these very fragile early stages.

 

His mistake was dropping her home first; bb you should have just gone directly to yours and continued your date.

 

She wouldn't have had time to over-think and would have seen by your actions you weren't just looking for sex and things might have turned out much differently.

[Jibralta]

Whoever said ‘it’s quite normal’ to have sex on the 4th date. That type of attitude, of expectation, is what leads to unsafe situations for women. There is no timeline to be followed. You follow each others lead whether it’s date 1 or 17. Fastest way to chase a woman away is to put her on a sex timeline...yikes...

 

Yes, exactly.

[katrina1980]

Well put another way, if we’re going to follow each other's lead, then it’s perfectly “normal” to have sex on the first date, the 4th date, the 20th date or the 100th date!

 

It would also be perfectly “normal” to not even wait for an actual date, have sex the first night you meet!

 

Or not ever have sex at all!

 

As long as both people are following each other's lead, at the end of the day, “normal” is relative to whatever both people feel comfortable with and how long they both wish to wait or not wait.

 

I am fairly certain this is what Morello meant when he said it was quite normal to have sex on the fourth date, which he did not deserve to be criticized for imo.

[Jibralta]

Well put another way, if we’re going to follow each other's lead, then it’s perfectly “normal” to have sex on the first date, the 4th date, the 20th date or the 100th date!

 

It would also be perfectly “normal” to not even wait for an actual date, have sex the first night you meet!

 

Or not ever have sex at all!

 

As long as both people are following each other's lead, at the end of the day, “normal” is relative to whatever both people feel comfortable with and how long they both wish to wait or not wait.

 

Yes, that is a better way to think of it. Not meaningless milestones that deal with averages and not human beings.

[reinventmyself]

I agree with a mix of a lot of difference advice already given.

 

I think she gave a great deal of green light signals that would lead most men to think things were moving forward in a straight line. Asking her over could have been interpreted different ways by different people.

 

I don't know bbog, but I get the sense he is sincere and his motivations were in the right place.

 

If I ghosted every man that asked me to come to his home on a 4th date, I'd be spinster. Seriously.

And I don't think everyone that asks me over intends on bedding me either. (I am not naive enough to think it doesn't cross their mind, but it's not a given) But that's beside the point.

 

I think she may have realized that she herself went a little too far and wasn't ready to act to on it.

At some point. . for whatever reason, she put the breaks on and now is trying to pace things.

 

It's hard to tell if this is salvageable. Just trust yourself and know that you are a good guy. Give her the space she apparently taking and let her come to you.

 

It's funny, in moments like this we think it's all about us and something we did was terribly wrong. For all you know her ex could have shown up, she has some terminal illness, who knows what goes on in someones personal life. But it is certainly not all about us.

I guess the lesson here is to not beat ourselves up.

 

Based on everything you shared, I don't think you did anything wrong.

It's just a misunderstanding.

[figureitout23]

Well put another way, if we’re going to follow each other's lead, then it’s perfectly “normal” to have sex on the first date, the 4th date, the 20th date or the 100th date!

 

It would also be perfectly “normal” to not even wait for an actual date, have sex the first night you meet!

 

Or not ever have sex at all!

 

As long as both people are following each other's lead, at the end of the day, “normal” is relative to whatever both people feel comfortable with and how long they both wish to wait or not wait.

 

I am fairly certain this is what Morello meant when he said it was quite normal to have sex on the fourth date, which he did not deserve to be criticized for imo.

 

BB not responding to you still sitting in the gallery with my popcorn.

 

Need to defend my post.

 

Kat, relax.

 

I was responding to the concept of what is and isn’t ‘normal’. I do not think it is fair or right to place a timeline on sexual intercourse in dating, it sets up expectations and can be a slippery slope. ‘Normal’ Is relative. For every woman who has sex on the first date there’s another who does not engage in anything sexual until say the 10th date what’s normal to one isn’t going to be normal to another. That’s why I mentioned taking each others lead, learn what’s normal for the other person.

 

If a woman isn’t ready, she isn’t ready, and I’m sorry but since you want to counter what I’m saying, I’ll counter your explanation of ‘her friend must have got to her’ SO WHAT! If it’s her friend or a friendly cricket posing as her conscious. At the end of the day SHE made the decision she wasn’t ready to go to his place. That’s where it ends, the OPer could be the reincarnate of ghandi, she didn’t want to go. There’s no anger, there’s no frustration, there’s nothing but respect for a woman’s decision.

 

My original and subsequent response was not in any way pointed at the OPer, but the person who passingly said, ‘it’s normal to have sex on the 4th date’

 

No big deal, I disagreed.

[katrina1980]

 

‘Normal’ Is relative. For every woman who has sex on the first date there’s another who does not engage in anything sexual until say the 10th date what’s normal to one isn’t going to be normal to another. That’s why I mentioned taking each others lead, learn what’s normal for the other person.

 

Not quite sure what you think I was countering fio; I agree normal is relative which is exactly what I posted, in fact those were my exact words.

 

 

As long as both people are following each other's lead, at the end of the day, “normal” is relative to whatever both people feel comfortable with and how long they both wish to wait or not wait.

 

So aside from the fact that I believe both should agree and feel comfortable with the timeline (not just the woman), we are actually in agreement not disagreement, but thanks for taking the time to clarify your point anyway.

[katrina1980]

 

If a woman isn’t ready, she isn’t ready, and I’m sorry but since you want to counter what I’m saying, I’ll counter your explanation of ‘her friend must have got to her’ SO WHAT! If it’s her friend or a friendly cricket posing as her conscious. At the end of the day SHE made the decision she wasn’t ready to go to his place. That’s where it ends, the OPer could be the reincarnate of ghandi, she didn’t want to go. There’s no anger, there’s no frustration, there’s nothing but respect for a woman’s decision.

 

 

Boy I am really confused by your response here too fio (bolded). Again, I 100% agree with you, at the end of the day, once she got home, she changed her mind and didn't want to go back to his, after agreeing to go back earlier while on their date.

 

I was simply responding to the OP who was confused and asking what might have happened to change her mind, so I offered him a possible reason/explanation.

 

But yeah agree, so what? Bottom line, she changed her mind, doesn't really matter why.

 

I am not here to argue with or counter anyone fio, you, the OP or anyone. In fact, as it turns out, you and I actually agree.

 

Just offering up my perspective/opinion on the situation.

[figureitout23]

Sorry, I misunderstood.

[katrina1980]

Sorry, I misunderstood.

 

No worries, I understand, done it myself.

 

It's easy to do on these forums, the written word can be quite ambiguous sometimes, open to many different interpretations.

[bbogdanov]

 

...

 

If a woman isn’t ready, she isn’t ready, and I’m sorry but since you want to counter what I’m saying, I’ll counter your explanation of ‘her friend must have got to her’ SO WHAT! If it’s her friend or a friendly cricket posing as her conscious. At the end of the day SHE made the decision she wasn’t ready to go to his place. That’s where it ends, the OPer could be the reincarnate of ghandi, she didn’t want to go. There’s no anger, there’s no frustration, there’s nothing but respect for a woman’s decision.

 

...

 

 

There WAS an anger and frustration but not because of her decision (of course) - after all she owes me nothing and I am not a 5-year-old child that gets mad whenever he doesn't get something he wants. I got angry and frustrated because of her not telling the truth, not replying to my texts on purpose, not picking up the phone and so on. I am not entitled to these things, too, but I find them necessary for a healthy relationship (at least the one with being honest). And my emotions of anger and frustration may have not been justified but they are what they are - emotions - and they are to be experienced, not suppressed or whatever.

 

Meanwhile, we haven't been in contact for two days now. She is busy with her lectures at the university and don't have much time for going out. And I am fading away. I don't feel like before (don't know why), I don't have much motivation and feel a little bit indifferent.

[Wiseman2]

Live and learn. Next time let the woman suggest "sleepover and cuddling".🚥 Unless you want to keep bombing out remember this: "no" means "no". Do not go by "signals". A date can, at any point, say "no", no matter how much making out or randiness there is.

 

You need a very definite "yes". Do not assume anything from "green lights"🙄. Now you are frustrated because you shot yourself in the foot by jumping the gun and suggesting "sleep over, kissing and cuddling" too soon. Only an idiot would think that doesn't mean some sort of sex. It's up to you to date smarter and wait until a date overtly suggests sex. Now she's gone.

we haven't been in contact for two days now. She is busy.

[bbogdanov]

I didn't hear "no" at all, she agreed initally. And I didn't go by any signals, I am not trying to "read" women. I just enjoyed the moment and wanted to spend the evening with her so I made an invitation. Plain and honest invitation. Without any ulterior motives, without me trying to think "what if", without having an agenda ("it's already X-th date and sex must happen") or whatever... I got a definitive "yes" that was later covered up in some silly excuse which, itself, led to more lies and avoiding. I don't assume anything from a "green light", I don't even know what a "green light" is! If you think I am some PUA and everything is like a science to me (judging a woman's behaviour, looking for clues, "green lights" and so on) - you can't be further from truth... I am frustrated because of the things I mentioned in my previous post, I don't want to say it for the 100th time, it seems you don't want to read and comprehend it. And my suggestion for "sleep over, kissing and cuddling" is exactly that, when I say something - I mean it! It's not my fault that society today, when being told that, automatically decides that sex is inevitable. It's not about being an "idiot", you can call me naive, but not an idiot.

[Jibralta]

I didn't hear "no" at all, she agreed initally. And I didn't go by any signals, I am not trying to "read" women. I just enjoyed the moment and wanted to spend the evening with her so I made an invitation. Plain and honest invitation. Without any ulterior motives, without me trying to think "what if", without having an agenda ("it's already X-th date and sex must happen") or whatever... I got a definitive "yes" that was later covered up in some silly excuse which, itself, led to more lies and avoiding. I don't assume anything from a "green light", I don't even know what a "green light" is!

 

It sounds like she changed her mind, for whatever reason. I don't think you did anything wrong. "Green light," in this case would mean that she was giving you permission to sleep with her. It's good that you don't make such assumptions.

 

If you think I am some PUA and everything is like a science to me (judging a woman's behaviour, looking for clues, "green lights" and so on) - you can't be further from truth...

 

By the way, I don't get the impression that you are someone like this, who needs a rule book to do your thinking for you. For my part, I was just responding to a poorly worded statement that seemed to recommend a very simplistic understanding of the situation.

 

And my suggestion for "sleep over, kissing and cuddling" is exactly that, when I say something - I mean it! It's not my fault that society today, when being told that, automatically decides that sex is inevitable. It's not about being an "idiot", you can call me naive, but not an idiot.

 

Amen. And believe me, you're not the only one who doesn't chase after sex like it's your last chance on earth to have it.

[katrina1980]

^^Great post Jibralta, I wholeheartedly agree!

[figureitout23]

There WAS an anger and frustration but not because of her decision (of course) - after all she owes me nothing and I am not a 5-year-old child that gets mad whenever he doesn't get something he wants. I got angry and frustrated because of her not telling the truth, not replying to my texts on purpose, not picking up the phone and so on. I am not entitled to these things, too, but I find them necessary for a healthy relationship (at least the one with being honest). And my emotions of anger and frustration may have not been justified but they are what they are - emotions - and they are to be experienced, not suppressed or whatever.

 

Meanwhile, we haven't been in contact for two days now. She is busy with her lectures at the university and don't have much time for going out. And I am fading away. I don't feel like before (don't know why), I don't have much motivation and feel a little bit indifferent.

 

Still sitting in the gallery with my popcorn, so no analysis. I will act as if this is the first post I ever read.

 

Re the bold: You arent in a relationship, you had 4 awesome dates, but you arent boyfriend and girlfriend, so she doesnt necessarily owe you that same level of care. You don't know if she lied. Its all speculation what happened. What we do know is she changed her mind. Something you say you arent angry about and honestly, I believe you.

 

Im reading this as youre angry at her actions after. But look:

 

I don't know if I had the right to be suspicious about her story, I knew her for a week and we haven't build trust yet, that was my emotion at the moment. Not angriness or resentment but a little doubt/uncertainty.

 

Never mind, the next day (yesterday) I was thinking about if I had somehow insulted or repelled her with that invitation of mine. Although in my mind I really would enjoy her company and I did it with all the best motives, I liked her. I texted her to see what's going on and it turned out she was taking a walk in the park with her sister. She seemed to not be cold towards me. Although when I sent her some virtual kisses she just thanked me. I asked if there were some kisses for me, too (how desperate), and she told me she would give them to me in person.

 

You ABSOLUTELY are entitled to your feelings.It appears shes doing a slow fade and that hurts. But I think your anger may be misplaced. Confusion coupled with insecurity seems to have extinguished these flames not her ghosting you. And to be completely honest, Im not sure things are extinguished. It seems much more likely that you are panicking and trying to reject her before she rejects you. I dont see where she has ended thing, backed off a bit? Yes, but I think if you got your insecurity in check you wont push her away with your actions.

 

Recently I was in a sorta kinda similar experience. We had about 4 amazing dates, chemistry was off the charts, tons in common, conversation flowed easily, in person. Over texts he seemed to let his insecurities shine bright like a diamond. His texts were needy, argumentative, accusatory and just all around over the top, I couldn't take it another day. Like your situation, it wasnt that we didnt get along swimmingly its that while we werent around eachother, he let his mind wander and it pushed me away.

 

I dont know, something to maybe think about.

 

I'll go back to the gallery with my popcorn now.

[reinventmyself]

I do not condone lying but what just played out is pretty typical.

 

Someone will attempt to let the other down softly by using white lies, "I'm too tired", my car broke down". And if you're experienced enough you pick up on the queues (aka white lies) you bow out gracefully.

 

You are entitled to the expectation of total honesty, but most people don't want to hit someone up side of their face with it.

 

If I don't know you well enough, I might do the same. Not saying it's right, but I've tried the alternative and have been verbally assaulted doing so.

 

I surely don't know you 4 dates in and I'm not sure what reaction I'll get, so I'll start with subtle queues and see if it can save us both from an awkward moment.

 

I get you're disappointed, but I think she tried to handle this the best way she knew how.

 

Maybe not the most mature way, but her way nonetheless.

[bbogdanov]

figureitout23: Yeah, I know I am not in a relationship but I expect people to have the same level of care I do (not that this is justified, it's just my way of thinking which appears to not be universal). The speculation was about her making an excuse that evening, I don't know for sure if she really had to take care of her sister's child or not, I am just guessing... But not seeing my texts later, not picking up the phone on the next day, lying that she'd been asleep at that time is all far from truth (blame the internet, social media and whatever else for the ability to prove such things). I am angry at that, which I say (again), is just my feeling, nothing more. And I really don't care about her change of mind, it would be childish of me to be angry at that (I just can't imagine doing it), thank for believing me.

 

I don't think that things are extinguished, too. I just described how I feel at the moment, it is a subconscious thing. I doubt that I am panicking and trying to reject her, I don't want to lose this "opportunity". I hope she finds time to go on another date. And I believe she has not ended things (where did I say such thing?), she has backed off a bit (like you said) and I am doing the same thing (I told her that "we've got all the time in the world and I am not in a hurry"). We just slowed down things.

 

reinventmyself: I understand that thing with the honesty. I know people prefer to not hit someone with the truth but I like it that way. And I won't be verbally abusing her for slapping me in the face with such an honesty (I've been openly told several times in the past that "things can't happen") but it really is a rare thing now. Everybody is thinking about how the other person would react, trying to make the punch as soft as possible and so on... And after all, she has every right to handle the situation as she likes (knows) and I have the right to react as I like (know). The most important thing is where this clash will get us to...