Urgent:Just found out my girlfriend has been lying about her age for over a year

[Algos]

Asking to look thru her phone or anything else is far too nosey.

 

Yes you should talk to her and ask her why she lied about her age. I am very sensitive about my age tho I dont lie, I evade, change the subject, let people think what they want. I am a bit older than your gf. Women dont generally like getting older so I can see why she would lie, but that doesnt make it right, and I think it's quite a stretch for you to think she may be cheating on you.

 

A serious conversation with her is in order.

Thanks melancholy123, the phone etc., thing is very nosey, a basic statement that I don't trust you. However I'm looking for something more than her words and verbal assurances. I feel I need some actions on her part, some concrete objective facts (like lack of texts or e-mails looking for or hooking up with other guys) to corroborate her words. That is evidence that she speaks the truth. Of course it is invasive, but if someone is looking to make amends, to regain your trust, isn't transparency part of it?

 

I don't really think she is seeing other people (but then again I never once doubted she was 52 or picked up on any evasion or nervousness when age came up, again not often). Yet that is my greatest fear, and could be an explanation when she seems distant or cancels plans, or the distance and cancelling plans could be just as she says...feeling some guilt, insecurity about having a new person in her life after losing her husband and kid's needing her.

 

I like the saying, trust is not like a boomerang, once you throw it away it just doesn't come back. I need something more than words.

[superfan]

Wow so she lies about her age (which while not great is hardly a mortal sin when it comes to internet dating) and you jump right to "she must be cheating so I need to go through all of her personal devices"? Yikes!

 

Look, lying about her age was wrong. It is very likely she did it (as you said) to increase her online options and then didn't come clean because she worried you might walk away if you found out she was older. Many men would. She would have no way of knowing if you would still want to be with her.

 

Men can be pretty shallow and the world puts youth on a pedestal. Maybe your constant jokes about her being a month younger made it harder for her to come clean? You might want to seriously ask yourself if you helped to create an environment that made her feel honesty was not an option.

 

That being said, it's a bit ridiculous to conclude she must be cheating and to demand to go through all her accounts and her phone. If it were me and a partner demanded that I would tell him to hit the road (and frankly she should too).

 

Asking to comb through every device and account she had in order to "prove" herself is beyond out of line. Regardless of what she lied about everyone is entitled to some privacy. If you genuinely feel that you can't trust her if you don't do this, you need to end the relationship. Period.

[Starlight925]

First of all, I'm against lying, or "shaving" off a few years, or anything. Heck, if I even see one of those profiles that says "Oh, I'm actually 60, but I put 55", even though that's definitely being up front, I don't respond.

 

So I completely get where you're coming from. Me? I'd tell her I'm on to her, and then strongly consider leaving. She had better have a damn good reason for me to stay.

 

That being said, I have a friend whose boyfriend did the same thing your girlfriend has done. They met online, dated, and then moved in together, and about 1 1/2 years in (about the same time you've been dating), his "big birthday" (50) was coming up. She was trying to plan something really special, and when she called around to friends & family, turns out, he had turned 50 about 6 years ago. She brought it up to him, and he admitted it, and she was cool with it.

 

I'd have been steaming, but I saw her point: Other than that, the relationship was terrific.

 

So that's what I'll ask you: Other than this, how is the relationship?

[Algos]

Wow so she lies about her age (which while not great is hardly a mortal sin when it comes to internet dating) and you jump right to "she must be cheating so I need to go through all of her personal devices"? Yikes!

That's not my conclusion but my greatest fear. It goes along with her marked decrease in texting a while back, canceling plans at the last minute and being incommunicado when she travels; but there are other reasonable explanations as well.

That's just the point, I don't know anymore. I trusted her words. Should I still trust them? Shouldn't I entertain alternative explanations?

 

Look, lying about her age was wrong. It is very likely she did it (as you said) to increase her online options and then didn't come clean because she worried you might walk away if you found out she was older. Many men would. She would have no way of knowing if you would still want to be with her.

 

Men can be pretty shallow and the world puts youth on a pedestal. Maybe your constant jokes about her being a month younger made it harder for her to come clean? You might want to seriously ask yourself if you helped to create an environment that made her feel honesty was not an option.

That is not the case here. We have had many talks about men seeking youth and how I am not like that. My whole profile and people I've dated (never dated anyone less than 48) say that. I've also flat out discussed it's not her age that matter, now that I recall she's brought this up when talking about men seeking youth. I think such men who date 10 or 20 years their junior are fools. Our physical relationship should also leave no doubt I find her immensely attractive, I say it often, and she is. I'm not joking when I say she could pass for someone in her 40's.

 

So she has no rational reason to fear me walking out on her. Irrational reason, sure, I can see that. This is why I am asking.

 

That being said, it's a bit ridiculous to conclude she must be cheating and to demand to go through all her accounts and her phone. If it were me and a partner demanded that I would tell him to hit the road (and frankly she should too).

It's not so much conclude but if you can't trust a persons words when they exhibit behavior that could be consistent with cheating. I'm not going to demand anything. It is not the lie but the cover up and how I could not detect at all that she was lying or being evasive when the subject came up. It's also that others were helping her do so. The helped her do that, why not act as alibies for her to see someone else?

 

Is this unreasonable to feel?

Is this unreasonable to think?

 

 

Asking to comb through every device and account she had in order to "prove" herself is beyond out of line. Regardless of what she lied about everyone is entitled to some privacy. If you genuinely feel that you can't trust her if you don't do this, you need to end the relationship. Period.

So that's it? Then every relationship would end once someone maintains a lie for a long time and covers it up, because you are always going have a hard time trusting their mere words. When you betray someone's trust (in my view) you need to work to regain it (mere words are not enough). I don't intend to comb through "everything" if this is offered, frankly if there is anything it will appear readily. I don't want to make this into an "investigation" just a look and will leave it at that. I won't ask to look again.

 

I'm open to other suggestions.

Should I just leave it to her to suggest something?

 

If her covering up her lie about her age is the only thing I'm good and can understand. I want this relationship to last, I'm looking for ways to save it but also be able to trust again. Just ending it is a simplistic reaction. If people can repair relationships after actual cheating and infidelity, repairing this one should be doable. I need to figure out a way to trust her again, one my logical side can accept as my emotional side clearly wants to believe anything.

 

 

 

Frankly, and maybe these are expectations we only place on men, if I or guys I knew were caught in something similar, a women demanding to look at their phone would be not only be recommended but applauded.

[Algos]

First of all, I'm against lying, or "shaving" off a few years, or anything. Heck, if I even see one of those profiles that says "Oh, I'm actually 60, but I put 55", even though that's definitely being up front, I don't respond.

 

So I completely get where you're coming from. Me? I'd tell her I'm on to her, and then strongly consider leaving. She had better have a damn good reason for me to stay.

 

That being said, I have a friend whose boyfriend did the same thing your girlfriend has done. They met online, dated, and then moved in together, and about 1 1/2 years in (about the same time you've been dating), his "big birthday" (50) was coming up. She was trying to plan something really special, and when she called around to friends & family, turns out, he had turned 50 about 6 years ago. She brought it up to him, and he admitted it, and she was cool with it.

 

I'd have been steaming, but I saw her point: Other than that, the relationship was terrific.

 

So that's what I'll ask you: Other than this, how is the relationship?

 

Terrific except around the end of April (also around her birthday) the flirty and affectionate texts trailed off, she cancelled plans we had three times (to be with her son home for the summer) then and was pretty much incommunicado when traveling to see her son across the country (and an old friend), this pattern of cancelling at the last minute (always related to her adult kids) and being incommunicado when traveling has happened twice more over the summer. Most recently she cancelled getting together over a weekend to travel to see her parents. This get together was part of making it up to me on the things previously mentioned. We've talked about all this, our feelings, desires and fears made clear.

 

I believed her explanation, they are reasonable. She says this is normal behavior for her, and has stories about it from the time of her marriage (she's a widow). However, what if those are just stories? Mere words? Like the story she told to cover the reason for her trip?

 

The last cancelation is the most hurtful as I made it very clear how important this was to me. She explained it was because her parents are deteriorating (which I believe is true...but again the only evidence I have is her words, I met them and it could or could not be true) but what got me is she didn't make these plans to see her parents until she found out her new job was starting late (yet again...if that is true).

 

So I see it as she was afraid to ask for a day off to see he parents, so job trumps her parents health (its not the kind of job where they will say no or care, they really want her and have been stringing along the start date because of HR incompetence) but had no problem canceling on me not a week after planning this with me and knowing its importance to me. If what she says about her parents is true, and what she says she feels about me and wants from me is true, then I have (had) no problem with this. It sucks, but I get it (my parents have health issues to).

 

However, finding out that she has been engaged in a cover-up (involving I believe at least 2 of her children and sister) cast doubt on all such previous assurances on her part. My logical side says, maybe there is an alternative not so nice explanations that fits all the facts if one posits she is lying. My logical side says, yes you want to believe her, but get at least some corroboration.

[shessofly]

Start by confronting her with the lies you know about. In my opinion it is too early to be talking about rebuilding trust. See how your conversation goes and figure out what you want from that point. Who knows what else she has been dishonest about; at this point I would question everything. Good luck!

[MissCanuck]

It seems you now have two issues here, OP.

 

-She lied about her age.

 

-You feel she is pulling away from the relationship and possibly seeing someone else.

 

I do get how the lie makes you edgy in general, and questioning everything you thought you knew about her. I would deal with the lie about her age first, and see how things progress over the next few weeks (assuming you choose to stay, that is) If you still believe she is distancing herself from you, then have a talk about that and see what is up.

 

Discussing the age lie and then asking to look through her phone or computer is going to seem very strange and invasive at this point, unless you choose to also talk to her about her distant behaviour and your doubts of her loyalty. It's up to you if you really want to bring up both matters concurrently.

[Algos]

Start by confronting her with the lies you know about. In my opinion it is too early to be talking about rebuilding trust. See how your conversation goes and figure out what you want from that point. Who knows what else she has been dishonest about; at this point I would question everything. Good luck!

 

That sounds like good advice. I do want to think about everything else though, as in what next, or what could be next. In such situations my internal emotions have a great way of wiping form my mind all the carefully thought out words and responses.

 

My heart wants to just tell her I don't care she is 58, as my heart tells me keeping that secret has been weighing on her.

 

Yet last night when we talked she was maintaining the cover story. I can see that this is not something to divulge over the phone, and she did say when I mentioned we should go to her 40th reunion (the reunion topic came up organically in the context of seeing old friends, I think she asked if I'd gone to mine) she said "Yah we should talk about that" and changed the subject.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear this. Agree it sounds more pathetic than pathological. It's odd to keep up the charade this long however. What if she had told you early on that she was insecure about dating site cut offs, etc?

I'm fairly certain she is not pathological liar

[Algos]

It seems you now have two issues here, OP.

 

-She lied about her age.

 

-You feel she is pulling away from the relationship and possibly seeing someone else.

Yes the later goes back and forth. We have talked about this a lot. The pulling away she says is some fear of commitment (I will be her second relationship in life), guilt (which she realizes is not necessarily rational and says is not strong but there at times) that this is a betrayal of her deceased (8 years) husband, and her general introverted maybe avoidant personality (I'm an introvert to so I get that and realize I'm more anxious).

 

Yet frankly, it's this that causes me to doubt. If there was none of this behavior (which again is not constant but you wonder if the closeness is the make-up gift for bad behavior) I'd wouldn't even be here.

 

I do get how the lie makes you edgy in general, and questioning everything you thought you knew about her. I would deal with the lie about her age first, and see how things progress over the next few weeks (assuming you choose to stay, that is) If you still believe she is distancing herself from you, then have a talk about that and see what is up.

I'm looking to stay.

 

Discussing the age lie and then asking to look through her phone or computer is going to seem very strange and invasive at this point, unless you choose to also talk to her about her distant behaviour and your doubts of her loyalty. It's up to you if you really want to bring up both matters concurrently.

I know, but the thing is, it is either ask now or never. As soon as I ask her if their are any other lies, but she says no and their are, she will be sure to delete any incriminating e-mails etc. next chance she gets. She is no fool, she can certainly lie to me without me detecting it, she certainly maintained a cover-up and crafted stories of half-truths to back it. I need to think long and hard if I can live with that doubt, or risk asking or suggesting.

[Algos]

Sorry to hear this. Agree it sounds more pathetic than pathological. It's odd to keep up the charade this long however. What if she had told you early on that she was insecure about dating site cut offs, etc?

I would have said I understood and we actually had this conversation early on. Along with women not putting down the exact town they live in (100% agree with that) maybe the next town over, we got a lot of towns.

[Algos]

All this gives life and example to the old line "Oh! what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!"

 

Thank you all for your thoughts and perspectives I need them and appreciate the time on this holiday (in the US) weekend. I'm off to the gym to try to clear my heart and head, but will be back as feel need all the help I can get before picking her up from the airport in 7 hours.

 

Algos

[Honeycomb8]

I'm sorry but the fact she kept up this lie for this long, I'd be exiting the relationship. Someone that lies with such ease and adds more lies on top for over a year can not be trusted. She def would have lied about a lot of other things to embellish herself and def would be capable of doing other things. Trust is ruined, no point in staying with her.

[Honeycomb8]

Yes the later goes back and forth. We have talked about this a lot. The pulling away she says is some fear of commitment (I will be her second relationship in life), guilt (which she realizes is not necessarily rational and says is not strong but there at times) that this is a betrayal of her deceased (8 years) husband, and her general introverted maybe avoidant personality (I'm an introvert to so I get that and realize I'm more anxious).

 

Yet frankly, it's this that causes me to doubt. If there was none of this behavior (which again is not constant but you wonder if the closeness is the make-up gift for bad behavior) I'd wouldn't even be here.

 

I'm looking to stay.

 

I know, but the thing is, it is either ask now or never. As soon as I ask her if their are any other lies, but she says no and their are, she will be sure to delete any incriminating e-mails etc. next chance she gets. She is no fool, she can certainly lie to me without me detecting it, she certainly maintained a cover-up and crafted stories of half-truths to back it. I need to think long and hard if I can live with that doubt, or risk asking or suggesting.

 

That sounds pathological to me. Ehhh it'd be a big mistake staying. There are plenty of women out there who won't do this. Takes a certain type of person to lie about this and maintain it for this long ;_;. I wouldn't ever trust that person again, And if I feel like I need to police them I would leave.

[Algos]

I'm sorry but the fact she kept up this lie for this long, I'd be exiting the relationship. Someone that lies with such ease and adds more lies on top for over a year can not be trusted. She def would have lied about a lot of other things to embellish herself and def would be capable of doing other things. Trust is ruined, no point in staying with her.

I don't see it so simply. Intent and motive matter. Lying about one thing does not mean she lies about everything. It's not like I don't know a lot about her that is verified, I don't even care about her age. I've been around enough to know even really good people do stuff like this. The question is, for me, is this a one off or part of many other lies.

[Algos]

That sounds pathological to me. Ehhh it'd be a big mistake staying. There are plenty of women out there who won't do this. Takes a certain type of person to lie about this and maintain it for this long ;_;. I wouldn't ever trust that person again, And if I feel like I need to police them I would leave.

I've encountered pathological liars. They lie about things that there is no reason to lie about and even things that are easily seen as lies, often with the evidence right there in their face. It is bizarre what pathological liars lie about and how they seem to need to lie about everything. They live in an alternative version of reality that is easy to spot, but they work hard to convince you its real with all sorts of rhetorical and emotional tricks. This is not like that. Pathetic maybe, but basically good old fashioned lying that took on a life of it's own. Let me just say I'm an attorney, seen so much of both kinds.

 

I do appreciate your support. This has been very emotional for me and it's good to have many different perspectives as I try to process this in a short time. I've thought a lot about it on the way to gym and back...my next post will explain where I'm at.

[journeynow]

Some thoughts about age...up until my generation it was taboo to ask a woman her age, or to talk about it. Many women were perpetually 29. Or 29, followed by a nod.

 

And more recently there's the idea that putting a number on your age helps to age you, it becomes a self-program to develop expected signs of aging. So maybe it's not an ulterior motive on her part, but a way to handle that.

[Algos]

I think I’ve processed mostly my anger, dismay, sense of loss, fear and uncertainty...well if not mostly enough to behave constructively and not just seek emotional vindication.

 

Thinking on it more, I don’t believe she is hiding anything in her, e-mails or phone, trying to see anyone or seeing anyone. She’s shown no guarding behavior about her e-mail or phone, and if one of the two on-line dating site accounts I know she has is to be believed, she hasn’t used it either for some time. There have been many times where she has showed me her e-mails scrolling through them, many a time I’ve looked over her shoulder when passing. My ex did have an affair (of some sort) and know the hiding and furtive behavior well.

So thinking logically on it more, there is no reason for me to believe she is “cheating” and the distance creating I sometimes feel is likely more good old fashioned different people have different paces, and she’s replicating in a way the only relationship she has had. And it may also be one of the following narratives.

 

First, putting myself in other people’s shoes and trying to see all angles, possibilities and scenarios; then weigh them against each other is what I do. I was once a practicing scientist so gathering evidence to support or refute a hypothesis is also part of me. This has helped me succeed greatly in my day job, negotiate, and bridge misunderstandings (nothing I like more than that). However, it means I can rationalize almost anything I want to believe in, well which also doesn’t run counter to my moral principles. So here is some ways I see it:

 

Narrative 1 (good person version)

I’m pretty certain we fell for each other by January, but around her birthday it hit home she hadn’t told me her age and she became afraid that if she did I’d breakup with her, so fear, and avoidant behavior sets in and this behavior and her worry have been up and down ever since. She avoids talking about or investing in the future now because she is not sure if it will happen once I know.

 

Narrative 2 (bad person version)

She never intended this to last, but is having a lot of fun and I am there for her and helpful in so many ways that she is playing this out, but since no one wants to be a bad person she from time to time pushes me away hoping someday I will break it off saving her looking like a bad person. Until then she will enjoy the ride, albeit with some guilt.

 

I’m leaning strongly to Narrative 1, as I think she does want someone (even more so knowing she is 58) in her life; and it may be egotistical but I have been told I have it so even if it is Narrative 2, I may flip it.

 

That being said, believing in Narrative 1, why play games?

 

Just tell her I know she’s 58 and I don’t care, it doesn’t change how I feel about her or what I see as our future, except hey, social security a little earlier.

I’ve said it to her before and gone on about it many times. What attracted me first to her was our conversation (messaging) on ideas and dreams. She only had one pic and it was kinda not great (I photograph horribly most of the time) but I wanted to meet her if nothing else to talk with her...no expectations. Fate smiled on me and she was very good looking besides being everything intellectually and spiritually I dreamed of. (This is not my 1st or 2nd or 3rd or 4th etc. rodeo). I meant it, still do, I can see how women have been conditioned not to believe that.

 

In my head on the way over to the gym I went over how I may have increased her fears. I once mentioned how I felt I was running out of time as age creeps up and want to do as much physically as I can. Maybe she thought if I knew she was 6 years older that would be a problem for me given that. We are also incredibly active in bed, perhaps she fears I will leave her for someone younger because of that. I’m not so shallow (and youth is very much overrated in that department) but again women have experiences that teach them otherwise about men.

 

I honestly love this woman, and I don’t say that lightly. Why “test” her if I believe things are as in Narrative 1? We may have other issues, but I don’t see reaching out in love as doing any harm (except possibly to my heart, but not my soul, later on)

Now if it is Narrative 2, time will tell. The physical aspect of our relationship is mindblowing (in large part because of how I feel about her) and only one other can compare.

But I generally don’t have trouble in the physical department, so if it ends I won’t be physically alone...although I always wish it had worked out. Yet if I approach it with love, I’ll know that I did everything I could to make it happen.

 

Thoughts?

[Honeycomb8]

She lied and kept lying. It's not about the magnitude of the lie.

It's a character issue.

She deceived you.

Mark my words, if you stay you'll regret it.

[Honeycomb8]

We'll since you've already decided to stay, I guess there's nothing we can say that will change it. Hmmm you're the one that has to live with the fact that you can't trust her. That's not a very solid base for a relationship is it? If you didn't find out, she obviously would never have told you. I don't know how anyone would be cool with that.

[Algos]

Some thoughts about age...up until my generation it was taboo to ask a woman her age, or to talk about it. Many women were perpetually 29. Or 29, followed by a nod.

 

And more recently there's the idea that putting a number on your age helps to age you, it becomes a self-program to develop expected signs of aging. So maybe it's not an ulterior motive on her part, but a way to handle that.

 

I will say talking to friends aged 35-58 in the on-line dating scene it is a big deal for women. A 50 year old woman gets 25-30 year old guys who's first message literally is wanting to meet up to just to f, or 65 year old guys who look like they may keel over if they try. I believe my girlfriend about her on-line dating woes (have heard it before from others), it's kind of a cornucopia for a guy like me...but I'm looking for intellectual and spiritual connection in addition to chemistry. When I started I thought the later would be hard, it's not. Connection of mind and soul is the hard part...at least for a person like me. She's not the first woman I've dated at length since getting divorced (the fourth actually) but she is the first I've had that full connection with.

 

I am sensitive to the things people do with decent intentions in the name of finding love, and that it sometimes gets away from them. The guy upping his height some, upping his income a bit (I downplay my income because I don't want women who put too much stock in that), to women lowering their age or weight, or improving their body type. I feel for people because I do not and have never bought into the primary media portrayal of male or female beauty. I hate the game not the player. Not that I want to get played.

 

I'm also willing to take the risk of getting hurt. I don't like it, not doubt, but better to love and lose. I've been through so much worse than losing at love (don't get me wrong it still hurts, sucks, and I want to drink myself unconscious or curl up and die...I don't but the feeling is there), I fell lucky to have the privilege to do so. To romanticize it, I call this having a strong heart, it's part of being a real man for me as Rudyard Kipling in "If" summed it up very well.

[Honeycomb8]

Age is diff from height. Age carries experiences and she lied to you afterwards. She created stories around these lies. If i lied about these things I'd feel guilty, I'd tell them pretty much straight away. She doesn't have that in her.

 

 

Good luck. :/

[Algos]

She lied and kept lying. It's not about the magnitude of the lie.

It's a character issue.

She deceived you.

Mark my words, if you stay you'll regret it.

I hear you...I've heard similar things about other situations that turned out to be incorrect.

 

Character is not so simple in my view....I am master at fitting narratives and behavior into a box...a box with a label that doesn't tell you what to think but has connotations that lead you to believe what I want.

Yes she deceived me...yes she lied and was afraid to come clean so she kept it up...but why? The lie does matter. The intent does matter. We can with the best intent do bad things, but if our intent is good we can learn and not repeat it.

 

It's not like I haven't lied in life, so I'm loathe to pick up a stone and cast someone out.

 

It may well not work out, she may well not want the commitment I want, but I don't think she is running a scam on me, or suffers from a personality disorder....I've lived through that.

[Algos]

We'll since you've already decided to stay, I guess there's nothing we can say that will change it. Hmmm you're the one that has to live with the fact that you can't trust her. That's not a very solid base for a relationship is it? If you didn't find out, she obviously would never have told you. I don't know how anyone would be cool with that.

 

Oh certainly, there never was a question about breaking it off immediately over this. It's more trying to see it from all sides in a short time. I do realize I'm choosing what I want to believe.

 

Also many of my questions were very much around how to regain trust. Do I trust her as much as I did, no. Do I trust her not to be cheating on me, I've come to believe yes. Other things, I'm not really worried about. Frankly, it's not like I've got much to lose objectively; emotionally sure. But in the end, yes I want to regain that full trust in her.

 

I do wonder when she would have told me....Of course I wasn't on the look out for this because her age didn't matter. There are other things I checked up on her on that do matter.

 

I'm cool with it because I believe in forgiveness and redemption, that good people do bad things sometimes...it depends on the why...what's in one's heart does matter to me.

[catfeeder]

I honestly love this woman, and I don’t say that lightly. Why “test” her if I believe things are as in Narrative 1? We may have other issues, but I don’t see reaching out in love as doing any harm (except possibly to my heart, but not my soul, later on) [...] Yet if I approach it with love, I’ll know that I did everything I could to make it happen.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think you're smart and have learned how to apply reason in order to operate in your best interests. I'm a big believer in skipping the black-and-white thinking that tends to charge everything as an extreme that can 'only' be met with an opposite extreme.

 

That means learning how to gauge all of the vast real estate on the scale between two extremes and find balance.

 

It sounds as though you've talked yourself down from the extreme 'reaction' of challenging GF to surrender her privacy, and you've come up with a mature 'response' instead.

 

It would be one thing to be faced with a mountain of evidence pointing to ongoing insincerity or disloyalty or deceitful behaviors, but you have no such complaints. You have an otherwise good relationship with someone you've come to love, and you get to decide whether to work in favor of that investment or against it.

 

Nobody here is living your love life FOR you, so nobody else gets a vote.

 

Head high, and I hope you'll let us know how your conversation goes.